VGC 2016 Rules - "Uber" legendaries are back!

Modest Golduck actually OHKOes 100% of the time with Scald and doesn't hit your partner in the process. Also, Primal Groudon usually run Precipice Blades at the moment.

252+ SpA Golduck Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon: 268-316 (129.4 - 152.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Golduck: 132-156 (85.1 - 100.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
I know I said it's not a joke, but I still think Golduck is pretty gimmicky.
 
oml why is everyone here with the GOLDUCK hype, it's not nearly that good.

It loses to everything not named Rayquaza/Primal Groudon and can't at all switch into either of the two without the risk of death. Both also win against Golduck if they run any speed at all whatsoever (unless it's a Scarf Golduck in which you either kill one or the other before becoming useless, not both).
252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Golduck: 132-156 (85.1 - 100.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Golduck: 208-246 (134.1 - 158.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Golduck: 160-189 (103.2 - 121.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Golduck: 144-169 (92.9 - 109%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Golduck: 157-186 (101.2 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Golduck: 106-125 (68.3 - 80.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Golduck: 178-211 (114.8 - 136.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Golduck: 212-250 (136.7 - 161.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Golduck: 177-208 (114.1 - 134.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Dark Aura Yveltal Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Golduck: 156-185 (100.6 - 119.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
48 Atk Life Orb Dark Aura Yveltal Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Golduck: 125-148 (80.6 - 95.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Golduck: 237-281 (152.9 - 181.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Edit: Ksh13 , it might be just a little better to run Modest Kyogre in order to outspeed things while under Tailwind, I hate not outspeeding Mega Kangaskhan under Tailwind o_o
 
Does anyone know a good EV spread for Xerneas? The ones on the Uber analysis don't really apply because there's no Genesect. I'm currently running 244 HP/4 Def/248 SpAtk/12 Spe with Modest to outrun Timid Scarf Kyurem-W after a Geomancy and the SpAtk is maxed at those IVs due to HP Ground. The rest are just dumped into HP with 4 left over for Def.

Edit: This is why Quick Guard is good.
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/vgc2016-304411411

The hax didn't matter because Groudon would have (at best) 2HKO'd Xerneas and then Sableye and Kyogre would have taken it out.
 
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oml why is everyone here with the GOLDUCK hype, it's not nearly that good.

It loses to everything not named Rayquaza/Primal Groudon and can't at all switch into either of the two without the risk of death. Both also win against Golduck if they run any speed at all whatsoever (unless it's a Scarf Golduck in which you either kill one or the other before becoming useless, not both).
252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Golduck: 132-156 (85.1 - 100.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Golduck: 208-246 (134.1 - 158.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Golduck: 160-189 (103.2 - 121.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Golduck: 144-169 (92.9 - 109%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Golduck: 157-186 (101.2 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Golduck: 106-125 (68.3 - 80.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Golduck: 178-211 (114.8 - 136.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Golduck: 212-250 (136.7 - 161.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Golduck: 177-208 (114.1 - 134.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Dark Aura Yveltal Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Golduck: 156-185 (100.6 - 119.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
48 Atk Life Orb Dark Aura Yveltal Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Golduck: 125-148 (80.6 - 95.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Golduck: 237-281 (152.9 - 181.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Edit: Ksh13 , it might be just a little better to run Modest Kyogre in order to outspeed things while under Tailwind, I hate not outspeeding Mega Kangaskhan under Tailwind o_o
Yes the spreads are probably really bad, I know. Currently the team is just at the phase of like testing out whether this concept works or not, later I'll play around with moves, EVs, and possibly swapping out some Pokemon :)

Also please stop talking about Golduck everyone -_- It only beats like two Pokemon, and the opponent first of all might not have them, in which case you all of a sudden basically have 5 Pokemon to choose from, secondly the opponent might have them but not bring them due to seeing Golduck on the opposing team, and thirdly the opponent might be able to KO Golduck before it gets to kill Pdon or Mega Ray or whatever it is supposed to kill.
 
I think I found the best Sableye set (mostly the EVs).


Sableye @ Mental Herb
EVs: 252 HP / 20 Def / 236 SpDef
Nature: Calm/Sassy
Ability: Prankster
- Quash
- Foul Play
- Will-O-Wisp/Taunt
- Swagger/Taunt

Prankster Quash makes the target go dead last allowing Sableye's partner to kill it. Foul Play is the only attack Sableye should ever use and do good damage to high Atk Pokemon. Will-O-Wisp cripples physical attackers (besides Primal Groudon) and Swagger gives Special attackers only a 50% chance to act. Taunt can be used for Pokemon like Smeargle and Amoongus and against Trick Room setters. Mental Herb+Taunt lets Sableye beat other Prankster Pokemon. Sassy can be used to be slower in Trick Room.

Max HP and 20 Def lets Sableye always survive Primal Groudon's Precipice Blades. This also allows Sableye to always survive LO Talonflame's Brave Bird (if anyone's actually running LO). The remaining EVs are put into SpDef, which lets Sableye always survive a Draco Meteor from Modest Giratina-O and Timid Scarf Kyurem-W as well as giving it a 62.5% chance to survive Primal Kyogre's Origin Pulse.
 
Edit: This is why Quick Guard is good.
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/vgc2016-304411411

The hax didn't matter because Groudon would have (at best) 2HKO'd Xerneas and then Sableye and Kyogre would have taken it out.
Your opponent was an idiot for constantly spamming priority moves even after you had shown that you had quick guard.

Not to mention low ladder battles are bad examples:

Metleon's rating: 1085 → 1108
(+23 for winning)
KingPig12's rating: 1030 → 1018
(-12 for losing)
 
I think I found the best Sableye set (mostly the EVs).


Sableye @ Mental Herb
EVs: 252 HP / 20 Def / 236 SpDef
Nature: Calm/Sassy
Ability: Prankster
- Quash
- Foul Play
- Will-O-Wisp/Taunt
- Swagger/Taunt

Prankster Quash makes the target go dead last allowing Sableye's partner to kill it. Foul Play is the only attack Sableye should ever use and do good damage to high Atk Pokemon. Will-O-Wisp cripples physical attackers (besides Primal Groudon) and Swagger gives Special attackers only a 50% chance to act. Taunt can be used for Pokemon like Smeargle and Amoongus and against Trick Room setters. Mental Herb+Taunt lets Sableye beat other Prankster Pokemon. Sassy can be used to be slower in Trick Room.

Max HP and 20 Def lets Sableye always survive Primal Groudon's Precipice Blades. This also allows Sableye to always survive LO Talonflame's Brave Bird (if anyone's actually running LO). The remaining EVs are put into SpDef, which lets Sableye always survive a Draco Meteor from Modest Giratina-O and Timid Scarf Kyurem-W as well as giving it a 62.5% chance to survive Primal Kyogre's Origin Pulse.
This thing can be good with Yveltal, can't it?
 
I just caught a decent Brave Groudon on my OR.

IVs are 31/31/31/29/29/0

Question:
Does this thing have any use for Hidden Power [Ice]?
(Overheat fries Landorus-T anyway and Rayquaza has a very high chance to live one of these so I might as well be using Rock Slide/Stone Edge.)
 

Demantoid

[10:43:28] #Mishiimono)⊙﹏⊙✿( kills a dewgong
I just caught a decent Brave Groudon on my OR.

IVs are 31/31/31/29/29/0

Question:
Does this thing have any use for Hidden Power [Ice]?
(Overheat fries Landorus-T anyway and Rayquaza has a very high chance to live one of these so I might as well be using Rock Slide/Stone Edge.)
If you are worried about Mega Salamence I guess; it doesn't hit too much for Groudon. I would probably go with something else for that slot. I would even consider EQ to have a 100% accurate move if you're not using Fire Punch.
 
Your opponent was an idiot for constantly spamming priority moves even after you had shown that you had quick guard.

Not to mention low ladder battles are bad examples:

Metleon's rating: 1085 → 1108
(+23 for winning)
KingPig12's rating: 1030 → 1018
(-12 for losing)
That's true, but it's not like either of them could do anything to Xerneas with their attacks. But yeah, it seems like more people are trying to use Aegislash/Ferrothorn/P Groudon to check Xerneas rather than Prankster attacks so it's not quite as good as I first thought. Quick Guard still pretty much shuts down every Prankster Pokemon, though.
 
It's funny I'm having successes myself baiting Groudon out with Kyogre as bait.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/vgc2016-304808010
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/vgc2016-303834484

Here are a few, and Groudon gets destroyed turn 1 or 2. The game is pretty much over by that point.
Though it's on low ladder, but people are still getting caught unaware by Rayquaza.
It is the best weather killer around. Risky play, but same thing goes for switching Groudon in on a Kyogre with a weather
killer in the back. Kyogre is definitely a monster threat if left uncheck
 
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More EVs:
Modest Xerneas with 164 Spe EVs can outspeed Jolly Smeargle pre-Geomancy.
with 188, it can outspeed neutral Natured Primals.
Neutral natured Primals with 236 Spe EVs can outspeed Jolly Smeargle (might as well max it at that point).

From my earlier post: 12 Spe EVs lets Xerneas outspeed +1 +nature Kyurem-W and Rayquaza after a Geomancy.
 

Take Azelfie

More flags more fun

Hitmontop @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Wide Guard
- Quick Guard

Hitmontop is really underrated and I honestly think this guy will turn out in top 12 at finals with how good Dual Guard is. Hitmontop just has so many support tools and is on my current VGC team. Fake Out provides a free turn usually against PDon + Cress leads I target Cresselia and Foul Play PDon with Yveltal. Close Combat is a nice check to Kangaskhan who is still big and prominent in VGC. This can also block Sucker Punches, Extremespeed, and Bullet Punches coming toward my partner which gives me free turns. Specs Sylveon gets completely shut down when I spam Wide Guard as it is an effective Xerneas lure and my other team mate gets to punish it. Wide Guard also helps with Origin Pulse, Precipice Blades, Dazzling Gleam, Hyper Voice, Earthquake, and Icy Wind. 20 speed EVs allows Hitmontop to outspeed 0 IV negative nature Kangaskhan before Trick Room and is always slower than Mega Kangaskhan. This punishes Trick Room teams who use Mega Kangaskhan as there mega.

Honestly guys, use this thing 0___0

E: do ^ ^ V V < > < > B A as a little something special
 
Has anyone tried using Ho-Oh yet? I can imagine that with a Desolate Land and LO/Band, its Sacred Fire would be devastatingly difficult to tank unless you have Pogre (and even then, Brave Bird still does a ton to that), not to mention the 50% burn chance. It even has some nice speed controls options in Tailwind and Thunder Wave, and can also be a nice offensive Xerneas check like how it is in Ubers singles.

A shame Regenerator is illegal with it though :/
 

Hitmontop @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Wide Guard
- Quick Guard

Hitmontop is really underrated and I honestly think this guy will turn out in top 12 at finals with how good Dual Guard is. Hitmontop just has so many support tools and is on my current VGC team. Fake Out provides a free turn usually against PDon + Cress leads I target Cresselia and Foul Play PDon with Yveltal. Close Combat is a nice check to Kangaskhan who is still big and prominent in VGC. This can also block Sucker Punches, Extremespeed, and Bullet Punches coming toward my partner which gives me free turns. Specs Sylveon gets completely shut down when I spam Wide Guard as it is an effective Xerneas lure and my other team mate gets to punish it. Wide Guard also helps with Origin Pulse, Precipice Blades, Dazzling Gleam, Hyper Voice, Earthquake, and Icy Wind. 20 speed EVs allows Hitmontop to outspeed 0 IV negative nature Kangaskhan before Trick Room and is always slower than Mega Kangaskhan. This punishes Trick Room teams who use Mega Kangaskhan as there mega.

Honestly guys, use this thing 0___0

E: do ^ ^ V V < > < > B A as a little something special
I love Hitmontop! *_*
 

Demantoid

[10:43:28] #Mishiimono)⊙﹏⊙✿( kills a dewgong
I've been testing CM Giratina and I can honestly say that it is amazing. The only things that do well against it are Xerneas and Yveltal (also the other non-existant fairies). Using the rest of your team to beat Xerneas has often gotten me the win. It is able to set up free Calm Minds against Kangaskhan and Groudon/Kyogre, and many teams are not prepared for it. I personally run Shadow Ball as the only attack because you beat normal-types anyway but it also has access to Earth Power and Icy Wind.

  • +2 252 SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Dazzling Gleam vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Giratina: 156-186 (60.7 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 252 Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 109-129 (42.4 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
  • 252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Ice Beam vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Giratina: 82-98 (31.9 - 38.1%) -- 94.4% chance to 3HKO
  • 252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 69-82 (26.8 - 31.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Another mon I've been testing is Serperior. It does large chunks of damage to both Primals before a boost and ohko's less bulky sets after a boost without a boosting item. Glare is also very helpful for slowing Xerneas (doesn't cripple because it's still bulky enough to live hits) and speed control in general.

  • +2 252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 206-246 (99.5 - 118.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
  • +2 252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 206-246 (117 - 139.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • +2 252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon: 169-201 (96 - 114.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
  • +2 252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Primal Groudon: 168-198 (81.1 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • +2 252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 156-184 (86.1 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

Replay using both, mid-level ladder, where Giratina comes back 1-3 after I beat the Xerneas although I played rather sloppily with it.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/vgc2016-305300887
 
Another set. This time for Crobat.


Crobat @ Mental Herb
EVs: 76 HP / 212 Def / 220 Spe
Nature: Timid
IVs: 0 Atk
Ability: Inner Focus
- Super Fang
- Tailwind
- Taunt
- Quick Guard

Super Fang cuts one enemy's HP in half which lets Crobat's partner turn a 2HKO into a OHKO. Tailwind helps for Speed control and Taunt is mostly used on Xerneas since it can't run a Mental Herb like Trick Room Pokemon could. Quick Guard blocks Fake Out and other priority attacks and pretty much shuts down Prankster Pokemon.

The EVs let you outspeed Weavile, which is the fastest Fake Out Pokemon besides an already Mega'd Lopunny and Ludicolo in the Rain. I honestly don't see a reason to run max Speed since you can't Super Fang Gengar, you're risking a 50/50 against Mewtwo, and Taunt won't do a whole lot to either of them. The HP and Def EVs let you survive Jolly Mega Kangaskhan's Double Edge and you can still take a +2 Xerneas's Moonblast as well. 116 HP / 252 Def / 140 Spe could also be used to outspeed Mega Rayquaza and survive a Primal Groudon's Stone Edge. You'll still have a good chance to die from Overheat pretty much no matter how you EV Crobat, though.

Mental Herb blocks Taunt which can cripple you and Inner Focus stops Fake Out from flinching you. I think these are the moves most people are running, but I remember seeing Whirlwind at one point as well.
 
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I'm still new to VGC, but I'm starting to see the value of moves like Quash in the developing meta. In that vein, I wanna mention something that probably isn't as splashable, but could turn out useful against PDon.

OR
+


Thundurus @ Mental Herb / Life Orb / Focus Sash (?)
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- Role Play
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt / Protect / Hidden Power Ice / Grass Knot / Psychic

Tornadus @ Mental Herb / Life Orb / Focus Sash (?)
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Role Play
- Tailwind
- Taunt / Protect / Icy Wind / Grass Knot
Pair either of these with a POgre, and use Role Play on the Ogre on an expected PDon switch-in. Runs train on mindless PDon play while taking advantage of one of the faster Pranksters in the tier. Still loses to Dialga and Xern + Fake Out 'mon, so tech in some support for that. The choice of Thundurus over Tornadus is largely one of typing, but also extends to your choice of which form of speed control you benefit more from, TWave or Tailwind.

Didn't add a Kyogre set since that's rather team-dependent, but I like running Water Spout + Ice Beam max speed (sometimes even Timid over Modest) sets with this partner.
 
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Another set. This time for Crobat.


Crobat @ Mental Herb
EVs: 76 HP / 212 Def / 220 Spe
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Inner Focus
- Super Fang
- Tailwind
- Taunt
- Quick Guard

Super Fang cuts one enemy's HP in half which lets Crobat's partner turn a 2HKO into a OHKO. Tailwind helps for Speed control and Taunt is mostly used on Xerneas since it can't run a Mental Herb like Trick Room Pokemon could. Quick Guard blocks Fake Out and other priority attacks and pretty much shuts down Prankster Pokemon.

The EVs let you outspeed Weavile, which is the fastest Fake Out Pokemon besides an already Mega'd Lopunny and Ludicolo in the Rain. I honestly don't see a reason to run max Speed since you can't Super Fang Gengar, you're risking a 50/50 against Mewtwo, and Taunt won't do a whole lot to either of them. The HP and Def EVs let you survive Jolly Mega Kangaskhan's Double Edge and you can still take a +2 Xerneas's Moonblast as well. 116 HP / 252 Def / 140 Spe could also be used to outspeed Mega Rayquaza and survive a Primal Groudon's Stone Edge. You'll still have a good chance to die from Overheat pretty much no matter how you EV Crobat, though.

Mental Herb blocks Taunt which can cripple you and Inner Focus stops Fake Out from flinching you. I think these are the moves most people are running, but I remember seeing Whirlwind at one point as well.
I think that running Timid + 0 Atk IVs on this set would be beneficial since you're not running any physical attacks and Foul Play Yveltal seems like a beast in this metagame. This is a cool support set and that extra bulk + Super FAng seems to give it an edge over Talonflame.
 

Take Azelfie

More flags more fun
I think that running Timid + 0 Atk IVs on this set would be beneficial since you're not running any physical attacks and Foul Play Yveltal seems like a beast in this metagame. This is a cool support set and that extra bulk + Super FAng seems to give it an edge over Talonflame.
I have enjoyed using Crobat as well especially since it can cripple PDon significantly when your partner is physical and fast Quick Guard can block Fake Out. Tailwind and Taunt is also really cool to.
 
I think that running Timid + 0 Atk IVs on this set would be beneficial since you're not running any physical attacks and Foul Play Yveltal seems like a beast in this metagame. This is a cool support set and that extra bulk + Super FAng seems to give it an edge over Talonflame.
Yeah that's what I am running, but I typed Jolly for some reason. Really no reason to not run -Atk with a 0 IV if you're not using physical attacks (unless you want min Speed for Trick Room and Gyro Ball).

Is it just me, or is pretty much every battle in this format decided by hax? Origin Pulse, Precipice Blades, and WoW misses, Swagger fishing for hax, random crits taking your Pokemon out when it should have survived, etc.
 
Is it just me, or is pretty much every battle in this format decided by hax? Origin Pulse, Precipice Blades, and WoW misses, Swagger fishing for hax, random crits taking your Pokemon out when it should have survived, etc.
It doesn't feel any different from last year, tbh. Pblades/opulse misses aren't any different from draco or hydro pump misses, and WoW and crits are exactly the same. Hell, I'd even say it's a bit less haxxy simply because I'm not seeing as much rock slide or twave spam as I used to. Everything is so focused on offense, there isn't really enough time to spam twave and stuff. Trick room and tailwind seem to be the preferred speed control options right now.