1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

VGC Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer - Mark II

Discussion in 'VGC' started by Solace, Aug 11, 2012.

  1. Mr.E

    Mr.E im the best
    is a Pre-Contributoris a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2004
    Messages:
    3,610
    Or, of course, you can just use mons that don't need to go Mega. Both Charizard and especially Mawile really need to go Mega to be useful. Something like Charizard + Venusaur, where Venusaur is a pretty decent base pokemon with Chlorophyll to take advantage of weather and a great Mega in the event you don't want to bring Charizard to a battle, is fine.
  2. bwebber

    bwebber

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2010
    Messages:
    379
    That sounds more like a case of bad team composition overall than Mawile + Charizard being a bad double mega combo. Those two have wildly different counters, and I've definitely lost my fair share of games to them because I guessed wrong on which mega would be brought to the match.
  3. Karxrida

    Karxrida

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,246
    Are there any sample teams that a new player can use like those found on the Doubles forum?
  4. Chipndip

    Chipndip

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2014
    Messages:
    67
    Actually, two megas limit your options.

    The reason being is that you lose your item slot + many GREAT megas really suck when they aren't megas (Kanga, Charizard, Mawile, Manectric) or suck if they're built to go mega and don't. With that said, the BEST scenario to use two megas in is when they play vastly different roles on a team that can function properly with 3 pokes and one or the other of them, as you said. However, unlike as you said, it doesn't really expand horizons. It actually limits them a tad and makes people more predictable.

    Example: That guy has a Mega Mawile and a Kangaskhan, while I have a Bisharp and a Salamence. He doesn't want to give me free boosts before getting burned by Fire Blast, so he's gonna use Mega Kanga.

    or

    That guy has Char Y and Mega Mawile. I'm using Trick Room, so OBVIOUSLY he's gonna use Mawile to take advantage of the field effect while it's up.

    It's easier to tell who's gonna do what when there's two mega options in the team preview.

    It's easy to see if you compare their team to yours real fast. What would they be scared of more? What would YOU be scared of more? Those criteria usually decide it rather easily. And, if there's Kanga, expect Kanga in most cases unless you have like...a crap ton of Intimidate and WoW users.


    Nugget Bridge
  5. rcade216

    rcade216

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Messages:
    153
    I am wondering, my team was super weak to Fire. I added some Water coverage, but since Charizard-Y and most partners carry Solar Beam, it is cancelling out my Water support.

    Would it be a wasted slot to add like Rain Dance to a Prankster, which I believe would be used after Charizard Mega evolves and Drought activates?

    Which if I had my Water type out at the same time I could lock any Poké using Solar Beam into the waiting stage.
  6. Karxrida

    Karxrida

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,246
    Where on Nugget Bridge? I looked and can't find any sample teams for beginners.
  7. Onicon

    Onicon

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,044
    They are referring to the articles. They are not tagged, so it may take some time to find the ones you are looking for.
  8. Cinaclov

    Cinaclov

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2007
    Messages:
    106
    The first option is to make sure you're using a water type that doesn't mind about the sun so much -Azumarill for example can Play Rough, or Rotom-W (or H, that also resists Fire so might work as well?) can use Thunderbolt. You could also try a Ground type instead -Garchomp is overused (heavily so) but for good reason. In your case he sounds almost ideal, resisting Fire and being able to hit back with either Rock Slide/Stone Edge or Earthquake if your team can accommodate it (and EQ isn't too common in this meta, it could throw some people off). Or you could try something like Rhydon+Eviolite if you're wanting to be more hipster about the whole thing.

    Raindance depends on if your team would benefit from it much or not. I take it by Fire weakness you mean Steel or something, in which case Rain would help thier longevity, but make sure it isn't going to cripple your Fire users and their Solarbeams. You also want to be careful shoehorning it onto a Pokémon where it doesn't fit; if the prankster raindance is easily added and tested I'd give it a go, but make sure it's not going to cause any big problems.
  9. rcade216

    rcade216

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Messages:
    153
    I had a Klefki, M-Heracross, and Scizor on my team.

    My problem in the Sun is that any Fire attack crushes them and adding Water types, even a Azumarill or Rotom-W, they get crushed by the Solar Beam coming from Charizard-Y and a few other abusers of 1 turn Solar Beams in the son.

    I thought having Rain Dance on my Klefki or any Prankster would take away the Sun boost to Fire attacks and maybe even ruin the Solar Beam by making it the 2 turn non-Sun version.

    I love the power of M-Heracross, but I cannot bring him out until Charizard-Y is gone and no way he can come out if Talonflame is around.

    I am looking more as to using Rain Dance as a way to counter Drought and force maybe a switch and in the process it would boost my Water attacks and hinder Fire.

    I have tested it some on Showdown, with mixed results. I have dropped M-Heracross from my team. Using a Rain Dance is more of an annoyance factor, although I have seen people carrying Sunny Day on their Charizard-Y, also on other teammates on their team.

    I guess I was just checking to see if it was worth the move slot or if it was more of a novice tactic.
  10. Onicon

    Onicon

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,044
    Water types usually fare poorly against Charizard-Y. The sure way to keep it at bay is still Tyranitar. The specially based one with Rock Slide seems to be pretty popular right now.

    0- Atk Tyranitar Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 180-216 (116.8 - 140.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (calculates for Doubles)

    It helps that Tyranitar is a good Pokemon in general and easily fits into almost any team right now. Garchomp is a fair alternative when your team is too weak to Kangaskhan thanks to its trollish speed.
  11. rcade216

    rcade216

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Messages:
    153
    Tyranitar was a Poké I was looking into, I like the pure physical set, but it looks like Intimidate is making more of a push lately.

    Thanks for the input guys.
  12. Karxrida

    Karxrida

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,246
    What does standard Aegislash run? I couldn't find anything on Nugget Bridge (then again, I don't know where to look :/).
  13. Chenkovsky

    Chenkovsky

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    329
    The analysis is here.
    Karxrida likes this.
  14. Atticus Lee

    Atticus Lee

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Messages:
    13
    How does Sucker Punch work in double battles? Does it need to be targeted by the pokemon it's targeting or does it work on your target regardless of which opponent pokemon attacks you (as long as you're being attacked)?
  15. Chenkovsky

    Chenkovsky

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    329
    If the Pokemon that you target with Sucker Punch is going for an attack, regardless of who they target, Sucker Punch will work. If your target doesn't go for an attack the move will fail.
  16. Pyritie

    Pyritie

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2010
    Messages:
    651
    Is there any reason why clawitzer doesn't run heal pulse very often? You'd think being able to heal 75% of your ally's HP would be pretty useful
  17. Chenkovsky

    Chenkovsky

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    329
    Because Assault Vest is the most common item that Clawitzer runs it can not use Heal Pulse with it.
    Pyritie likes this.
  18. Xen

    Xen

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    Messages:
    389
    What's an ideal EV spread for Mega Manectric? I feel like max speed w/ Timid is a waste in mega form, but I also know Manectric needs speed in order to get the jump on certain threats before mega evolving.

    Are there any notable threats I'll miss out on outspeeding if I forgo some speed to invest a little in HP? I plan on running him as a double-intimidate core w/ Gyarados, so extra bulk sounds nice to MegaMan.
  19. StarKO

    StarKO

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2014
    Messages:
    29
    I've only ever paid attention to singles competitively, and I want to get into VGC. How difficult is it/how long does it take to get "good" at VGC for someone who doesn't know anything about the doubles meta? Any general pointers?
  20. Pyritie

    Pyritie

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2010
    Messages:
    651
    Garchomp is probably your biggest threat, since you've only got base 105 speed before you mega, whereas chomp has 102. Unless you're comfortable always having to protect around a chomp, that doesn't leave you with very many EVs available to put into HP.
  21. SoulRed12

    SoulRed12

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2009
    Messages:
    748
    What are the tradeoffs for going Adamant vs. Jolly Kangaskhan?
  22. Chenkovsky

    Chenkovsky

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    329
    Adamant hits significantly harder, I don't have any Calcs at hand. Whereas Jolly insures you will at least speedtie with other base 100s like Mega Kangaskhan, and Charizards.
  23. SoulRed12

    SoulRed12

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2009
    Messages:
    748
    Thanks, but does the increase in Khan's power sufficiently trade off for no longer speed tying with things like Charizard?
  24. Chipndip

    Chipndip

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2014
    Messages:
    67
    From what I've seen, it takes a good bit for "Smogon Singles purist" players to adjust to VGC because they don't know how to assess doubles OR the lack of bans based on potential. Not trying to bash or anything, but Smogon's meta is really..."removed" from the meta of standard flat battles, and that tends to be reflected at times. It's easy to cover up by just copy-n-pasting a standard team and working with it, though, but getting to a higher plane needs a bit more than just spamming Mega Kanga Return.
  25. Chipndip

    Chipndip

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2014
    Messages:
    67
    If you go Adamant, go bulky. If you go Jolly, go 252/252/4.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)