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VGC Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer - Mark II

Discussion in 'VGC' started by Solace, Aug 11, 2012.

  1. Chenkovsky

    Chenkovsky

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    Yes, especially when Modest Charizard isn't that uncommon. Some Adamant Mega Kangaskhans opt to run bulkier 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe spreads with Hammer Arm to OHKO opposing Kangaskhans.

    EDIT: Bulky most certainly isn't the only way to go max Speed is still good.
  2. SoulRed12

    SoulRed12

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    Thanks. I think I will try the max speed set since I got a 5IV Adamant before knowing to breed for Hammer Arm.
  3. SoulRed12

    SoulRed12

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    Is there any way to reliably deal with Garchomp besides Mamoswine? I guess intimidate ice fang Gyarados might work?

    Edit: Except not because Rock Slide and Garchomp outspeeds...is there anything else?
  4. WreckDra

    WreckDra

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    Noivern (Supportvern in particular) does a pretty superb job of checking Garchomp along with Mega Manectric (you need to breed for HP Ice which is easier said than done), Rotom-W has no issues burning Garchomp and can do it twice if Chomp is holding a lum berry and Scarf Salamence says no if it is brought in for free on Chompers. Trick Room and its myriad of Fairies (and Mega Snow of course) make pretty quick work of Garchomp also. There is a reason why Garchomp is THE pokemon to use right now but it isn't impossible to handle.
  5. Chipndip

    Chipndip

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    Greninja, Salamence, Gardevoir. Three decent options.

    As far as dealing with it with 100% accuracy and no scratches guaranteed...I can't promise that no matter who I recommend.
  6. SoulRed12

    SoulRed12

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    Incidentally I am actually using Gardevoir on my team already. It's an imprison/protect set, with also Dazzling Gleam and Shadow Ball (because that makes imprison help against Gengar too). Right now it's Timid 252 SAtk / 252 Spe, but should I go bulky with it? Maybe 252 HP / 252 SAtk?
  7. Chipndip

    Chipndip

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    Your line of thinking is too "Smogon". Imprison doesn't do much to Gengar since it has two options to body you with, one of which is Sludge Bomb + you're slower than Gengar anyway. For bulk, opt for 252 HP/120 or more Def/Sp.Atk investment/Sp.Def investment if need be. I personally use 252 HP/192 Def/66 Sp.Def to make Garchomp's EQ a 3HKO, which is pretty neat to have because it also survives quite a bit of other physical attacks, especially with Intimidate support. The extra 66 Sp.Def is optional, and personally, it's so that the mega form can survive even a Modest Mega Gengar Sludge Bomb. Barely, but it does. Only time I lose that match-up is if I take some form of chip damage before I hit it with Psyshock, or if it's running 252 HP/252 Def, which is what I think the Perish Trap users use.

    Tangent aside, for moves, it depends on your hold item. If it's choice, go Fairy/Psychic/Energy Ball/Shadow Ball, but then you'd need a different EV spread. If it's something else, go Fairy/Psychic/Will-o-Wisp/Protect.

    For future EV spreads, you need to think of meta-game relevant threats, and how your pokemon may deal with them. If it's too much hassle, then don't worry about it, and know that when that threat comes up, you need to switch or Protect and cover it with your partner. If it's possible to help the situation via EVs, do that.
  8. shack

    shack

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    Does anyone use Facade on a Physical threat? i've tried it on Mega Kang in singles and it works wonders, but how about VGC where Rotoms are always looking to burn or paralyze your Tyranitar. My main issue is figuring out a spot to put it without removing something else that is useful.

    I use Choice Scarf Modest Noiverns Draco Meteor. Avalugg also takes hits like a champ and OHKOs back with Avalanche.
  9. Chipndip

    Chipndip

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    Not common, but possible.
  10. SoulRed12

    SoulRed12

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    I'm not really sure what "too smogon" means. I didn't make this clear, but I liked imprison/protect for the utility and ease in prediction it provided my Kangaskhan. (I've posted a RMT thread if you're interested in seeing how I was using it in my team) I suppose I forgot about sludge bomb, but I haven't seen it that much on Gengars for some reason like I do in singles. I don't know if that's just because I'm low on the VGC ladder or what. Nevertheless I guess I'll just switch Shadow Ball for Psychic since I like having Dazzling Gleam for spread damage but its output is a little underwhelming.

    And WOW, I can't actually believe that Gardevoir can be EVd to be 3HKOd by EQ! I'm definitely going with that bulky spread. I forgot spread moves get reduced damage. Also, what is the nature on your bulky spread? I'm not planning on running it with Gardevoirite.

    Finally, is there anywhere to get a steady stream of VGC practice on the 3ds besides the May Friendly? I was hoping to participate in it but now I might not be able to (because breeding is taking longer than I thought...and I'm not gonna bother if I have to do all 60 battles in one day). If not I guess I'll just have to use the ladder on the simulator until a new opportunity comes up. Why'd they have to change the season to friggin' inverse battles RIGHT when I get out of school...
  11. Chipndip

    Chipndip

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    Thinking it over, I was being a bit harsh on Imprison + Protect. The combo makes it so that as long as Gardevoir's on the field, no opponent can block, and that makes clean sweeping way easier for Kanga. It's not the fastest way to do things, and I'd personally be more comfortable with Will-o-Wisp, but I can see how it works in your favor when Mega Kanga's on board. Only change it if you feel like you're coming short too often.

    As for my spread, it's Modest nature. You're gonna be short on damage though (you're looking at a "meh" 159 or so), and won't even be able to reliably 2HKO 4 HP/0 Def Kanga. You WILL have some staying power, though, and their inability to Protect will be more detrimental since it'll be harder to remove her. The spread barely survives 3 EQs from standard Garchomp when it faces that 25% penalty. It's bulky enough to survive a good deal of other stuff based on that.
  12. rcade216

    rcade216

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    I used this Mr. Mime in the May 2014 International Challenge and he did amazingly well for me. I was looking for some feedback just on him to maybe make him a little more dominant.


    Mr. Mime
    Item:
    Safety Goggles
    Nature: Bold
    IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/31
    EVs: 212 HP / 252 DEF / 4 SP.ATK / 12 SP.DEF / 28 SPD
    Ability: Technician
    Move-set:
    • Fake Out
    • Icy Wind
    • Quick Guard
    • Psychock
    I went with Quick Guard over Wide Guard simply for Talonflame, Scizor, and Azumarill, but so many times I wished I had Wide Guard.

    My record was 33 wins and 27 losses, I actually hit 1603 at one point and then I hit a strand of Japanese players that just destroyed me.



    I used a Mega Manectric with HP Ice and it did really well against Garchomp, except for the few times I ran into a Focus Sash'd Garchomp, but I usually did a Fake Out and HP Ice combo after the first one I ran into.
  13. SoulRed12

    SoulRed12

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    I've been seeing a lot of MegaKhans with Facade lately. Is the drop in power from return really worth the pseudo immunity to burn? I guess a lot of people's first thought does tend to be to burn the Kanga as fast as possible...
  14. Chenkovsky

    Chenkovsky

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    No, in short.

    252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Rotom-W: 114-136 (72.6 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Facade vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Rotom-W: 78-94 (49.6 - 59.8%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO (Won't 2HKO with Sitrus Berry)

    If you aren't burned it is very weak in comparison. I would only consider running Facade if you were running an Adamant nature, but even then Return is better option.
  15. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast @manu 11: Arcticblast joined, gg all
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a SPL Winner
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    I realized today that Modest Ludicolo can't outrun Scarf Salamence in Rain (misses it by like eight points iirc), but I don't really know what else hovers around there in the current format and Landorus-T (my usual Speed mark) is illegal - what useful benchmarks are there to hit with Ludicolo?
  16. EpicPikachu63

    EpicPikachu63

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    Well, with Ludicolo, you could hit Garchomp with Ice Beam, Rotom-W & Heat with Giga Drain and Hydro Pump, and hit anything else pretty hard. Rain Boosted Hydro Pump is nothing to mess with.
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2014
  17. Chenkovsky

    Chenkovsky

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    Modest Ludicolo needs at least 204 Speed EVs to outspeed Adamant Choice Scarf Garchomp in the rain. Garchomp doesn't commonly run a Jolly nature if it is Scarfed. You could use a Timid nature with 196 Speed EVs, but Timid Salamence doesn't do enough to Ludicolo with Draco Meteor to really constitute the drop in power. Especially when it fears the OHKO from Ice Beam.
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2014
  18. EpicPikachu63

    EpicPikachu63

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    What other EVs are you running on Ludi instead of 252 SpAtk and 252 Spe?
  19. Chenkovsky

    Chenkovsky

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    A 252/252 spread works fine on Ludicolo, it just doesn't need one.

    Pokemon should only really run max speed if they need to speedtie with itself or a Pokemon with the same base Speed stat. Garchomp needs to speedtie with other Garchomp in order not to lose any chance of the 2HKO. Whereas Choice Scarf Garchomp can run an Adamant nature as Choice Scarf Garchomp aren't common and it will still lose to Salamence, regardless of whether it is Jolly Scarfed or not, because of Intimidate and Draco Meteor. Instead, if a speedtie isn't needed you should invest enough Speed EVs to speed creep a threat.

    As ludicolo doesn't need to maintain a speedtie with anything it can afford not to run max Speed and instead invest the EVs in bulk.

    What Arcticblast wanted to know is what other Pokemon are in the same speed tier as Ludicolo that need to be outsped.
  20. Mr.E

    Mr.E im the best
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    Ludicolo can't outrun anything useful with Timid it can't outrun with Modest, unless you're terribly afraid of +Speed Scarf Garchomp/Salamence which you shouldn't be. They don't commonly run a +Speed nature when Scarfed and neither of them are especially threatening to Ludicolo. Nothing else is remotely as fast except Venusaur and that's a weather fight, not an EV issue. The next fastest threats after Scarf Dragons is max Mega-Manectric at 205 and possibly up to Scarf Smeargle at 208 (though nobody should run it over Focus Sash), which requires a paltry 116 EVs.

    And yet, said Rotom tends to burn Kangaskhan very frequently.

    I'm in the minority that thinks it is worth it. I'm not saying it's a definite yes, use Facade, but it's worthy of consideration and perfectly usable if you feel the need. In my experience, as the damage calculation there shows, Kangaskhan is very powerful but not absurdly so. Facade will 2HKO most of the same things as Return, or OHKO at +2, just will less overkill. It doesn't benefit as much from chip damage from the partner, since you won't help Khan kill faster as easily, but it also protects you from status so it's a fair trade off. Burn is everywhere in this physical-heavy metagame, to say nothing of the occasional PAR or PSN.

    You lead against Rotom-W and Fake Out its partner. It burns you with WoW. You OHKO it on Turn 2. I dunno, that sounds pretty good to me and not a terribly unlikely scenario.
  21. Infernarl

    Infernarl

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    I just noticed that Kangaskhan gets Inner Focus. How come I never see that over Scrappy. Seems like you are more likely to punch through a fake out than have to hit a ghost with not Sucker Punch.
  22. Xlstevo

    Xlstevo

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    I actually see sometimes Kanga with Inner Focus.
  23. SoulRed12

    SoulRed12

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    Actually...not a bad point. When I rebreed my Kanga for Jolly I might actually go for Inner Focus.
  24. Darkmalice

    Darkmalice Like a facepalm, but better
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    Kang has tight competition for a slot, and it's very difficult to justify a slot for Facade, which will be useless in many matches - not everyone uses burn. It is horrible in 3v3, as once Facade is revealed, your opponent will simply not burn it and take advantage of the fact that you've given up a move for it - either no threat of Fake Out, no threat of major damage with Return/Double Edge gone, no priority without Sucker Punch, and no counter-measure to passive play with PuP. Hammer Arm and Protect are the only non-standard move that I would consider over any of those 4, maybe Substitute too because that's good on most Pokemon and coincidentally also helps against burn.

    If I were to use Facade, I would definitely not replace Return - without Return, you lack the ability to smash things quickly without setup which is Kang's best attribute. Probably PuP, but I still rather not. PuP also helps against burn, as a +2 boost equals out the burn boost for all your attacks - whilst burnt +0 Facade will hit harder, your other moves will still deal half damage.
  25. SoulRed12

    SoulRed12

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    What's a good way to deal with the MGar+Liepard disable/encore leads? It almost feels unbeatable, they both protect first turn, forcing you to choose moves, then Liepard encores and Gengar disables, then next turn they do the same thing to your other mon, and they always target the thing that can KO MGar first. Then Liepard can even switch into something that can set up.

    Is prankster taunt or trick room the only way to deal with it? I guess Quick Guard could also work but I've also seen variants with Accelgor instead of Liepard for a very fast Encore rather than a priority encore.

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