VGC or Battle Spot: Season 12 Discussion Thread

[Steven Stone]

Battle Spot Season 12: The ultimate generation showdown

Credit goes to the Japanese player that made this amazing artwork! http://i.imgur.com/3q1eNPr.jpg

Well people, this apparently has finally become a thing. The 12th season of Battle Spot bring us finally an idea that has been on many minds through these months, which is: What would a metagame without the Pentagon clause be like? Discussion is on this not only to see which things are going to become a threat in this new metagame, but the discussion is also on to see which metagame is more suited for next year's VGC season, and which one do the players prefer. The gap between the ones that like the new metagame and the ones that don't isn't wide open, and many players have amazing opinions on both metagames. Go wild n_n

 

[Steven Stone]

Well, i'll start with, in my opinion, the most controversial Pokemon for this new season:

Thundurus has already been proved to be an amazing Pokemon in the 2015 metagame, with amazing supportive abilities as well as a lot of sheer power. Now, in Season 12, Thundurus got one of its old tools back to its already big toolcase: Defiant. Defiant is one heck of an ability, and makes Thundurus quite unpredictable. Not only that, but it makes Milotic and other bulky waters succumb at this monster's power. Defiant allows Thundurus to run a mixed set (the only special move it should be using is HP Ice. It's quite similar to Blaziken) and allows it to beat a huge amount of the VGC 2015 metagame threats, such as Heatran, Kangaskhan, Hydreigon and Scrafty, Pokemon that Thundurus struggled with in the 2015 metagame.
Having to decide if it is a bulky support set or a LO mixed attacker set makes this thing really scary, and its versatility makes it, yet again, one of the biggest threats in this VGC season.

 

[Mishimono]

Well, i'll start with, in my opinion, the most controversial Pokemon for this new season:

Thundurus has already been proved to be an amazing Pokemon in the 2015 metagame, with amazing supportive abilities as well as a lot of sheer power. Now, in Season 12, Thundurus got one of its old tools back to its already big toolcase: Defiant. Defiant is one heck of an ability, and makes Thundurus quite unpredictable. Not only that, but it makes Milotic and other bulky waters succumb at this monster's power. Defiant allows Thundurus to run a mixed set (the only special move it should be using is HP Ice. It's quite similar to Blaziken) and allows it to beat a huge amount of the VGC 2015 metagame threats, such as Heatran, Kangaskhan, Hydreigon and Scrafty, Pokemon that Thundurus struggled with in the 2015 metagame.
Having to decide if it is a bulky support set or a LO mixed attacker set makes this thing really scary, and its versatility makes it, yet again, one of the biggest threats in this VGC season.

I am guessing something like Wild Charge, HP Ice, Knock Off, Superpower/Fly. I'll probably try it out as well as Tornadus.

A pokemon I'm interested to see is Blastoise as it has Amoonguss like defenses in normal form and crazy high defenses in Mega. Only problem is it lacks a good support movepool and would lack damage in non mega. Maybe something like Scald, Follow Me, Fake Out, Protect or maybe in mega Aura Sphere, Scald, Follow Me, Protect.

Also I wanna see those ErupTrans :)

 

[Demantoid]

I am guessing something like Wild Charge, HP Ice, Knock Off, Superpower/Fly. I'll probably try it out as well as Tornadus.

A pokemon I'm interested to see is Blastoise as it has Amoonguss like defenses in normal form and crazy high defenses in Mega. Only problem is it lacks a good support movepool and would lack damage in non mega. Maybe something like Scald, Follow Me, Fake Out, Protect or maybe in mega Aura Sphere, Scald, Follow Me, Protect.

Also I wanna see those ErupTrans :)

Unfortunately Fake Out is incompatible with Follow Me. The last move could either be Icy Wind or Ice Beam.

 

[Mishimono]

Unfortunately Fake Out is incompatible with Follow Me. The last move could either be Icy Wind or Ice Beam.

Oh I didn't know that. I didn't even know it got Icy Wind lol.

 

[P3DS]

I can actually say blastoise was a monster back in the old XY BS era, and it still holds its own today.

 

[Yugi]

do these changes apply to PS(Pokemon Showdown)cuz i dont have a DS and i would like to know

 

[Ksh13]

do these changes apply to PS(Pokemon Showdown)cuz i dont have a DS and i would like to know

I do believe they have been implemented on Showdown

 

[Yugi]

Thanks so Much Ksh13 very grateful

 

[RoadsterUFO]

From Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness, Arcanine is now able to learn the move Charm, unfortunately it comes at the cost of losing valuable egg moves such as Morning Sun and Close Combat. Charm is an interesting option to those wanting to stack on lowering attack with Intimidate or furthering stat reduction on the special end with Snarl.

Also from XD, Rhydon and Rhyperior now learn Helping Hand. Sure, there are probably way better options to choose from for Helping Hand support, but it does provide a nice niche when used along side a Mega Charizard Y. Rhydon/Rhyperior redirects Electric type moves away from Charizard with the Lightning Rod ability and sun lowers the damage of Water type attacks onto Rhydon/Rhyperior, works well for double genies assuming the Landorus-Therian doesn't carry a Choice Scarf.

(Without Helping Hand support)

64+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Overheat vs. 156 HP / 108 SpD Assault Vest Landorus-T in Sun: 133-157 (72.2 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

196+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 156 HP / 108 SpD Assault Vest Landorus-T in Sun: 123-145 (66.8 - 78.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


(With Helping Hand support)

64+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Helping Hand Overheat vs. 156 HP / 108 SpD Assault Vest Landorus-T in Sun: 198-234 (107.6 - 127.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

196+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Helping Hand Fire Blast vs. 156 HP / 108 SpD Assault Vest Landorus-T in Sun: 184-217 (100 - 117.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

The chance of missing with Fire Blast or Overheat is unfortunate, but at least it can power through a rather bulky Landorus with some helping hand.

 

[Alpha_Arrowz]

I have mixed emotions about this, I mean this makes so many mons back then available, but fir new players its hrd.fir em to get. On the other side, Follow Me Blastoise, but I really hope once VGC 16 rules are announced, they dont immplement old gen pokemon into it.

 

[ProjectTitan313]

Am I the only one who actually liked the Pentagon rule?
I mean, we do get DW Genies back, which is nice, and a few oddities like Follow Me Blastoise, Magmar, and Electivire, though getting a usable XD reset is a giant headache unless your name is gunboat Hozu.
But it also means we get the joys of Seismic Toss MegaKhan (if you have less than base 102 HP and aren't a Ghost type, too bad, you're dead even if its burned and at -6 Atk).
Extremespeed Entei with Sacred Fire tho.

I dunno, barely touched season 12, it lets me use all my old RNGs I guess so I don't have to reset all my ORAS legendaries?

 

[Adele]

I think the no pentagon rule gives us some really interesting movesets, for example follow me blastoise / magmar, extreme speed entei and the hidden ability djins (mixed defiant thundurus, sheer force landorus) but I imagine that some things could be very annoying (like seismic toss kanga lol). These changes arent too important for the metagame imo, I would appreciate something like GS Cup for VGC 16 :)