Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Sure you can do slowking (you can do tentacruel too if you wish). I agree that slowking > slowbro for the purpose of countering Keldeo, but I'd say as entries they're about even, considering slowbro is in general more viable.
Nice. I think it may be better as a check though, because of a lack of recovery plus a hatred of Scald. It's pretty borderline though, so do w/e you want :)
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 126-148 (32 - 37.6%) -- 0.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 36 Def Gyarados: 120-142 (30.5 - 36.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
The 8 speed EVs outspeed Adamant Azumarill, the 216 special defense EVs hit a jump point, while I put the remainder in defense to be able to survive 3 Specs Secret Swords, as with 0 Def, there's a remote chance of being 3HKOed. I went with Roar in the 4th slot, as Dragon Tail would just provide a free setup opportunity for Azumarill and Clefable. Gyarados can easily switch in on Choice Specs Keldeo's Hydro Pump, and with Rest, is not troubled by Scald's burn chance. If Stealth Rocks are up, then Secret Sword will 3HKO, but you can use Rest after switching in. Although this Gyarados set is a counter to the listed Keldeo set, H.P. Electric is common, although moreso on Scarf sets, so watch out for that! Make sure this set has some sort of entry hazard support.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 126-148 (32 - 37.6%) -- 0.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 36 Def Gyarados: 120-142 (30.5 - 36.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
The 8 speed EVs outspeed Adamant Azumarill, the 216 special defense EVs hit a jump point, while I put the remainder in defense to be able to survive 3 Specs Secret Swords, as with 0 Def, there's a remote chance of being 3HKOed. I went with Roar in the 4th slot, as Dragon Tail would just provide a free setup opportunity for Azumarill and Clefable. Gyarados can easily switch in on Choice Specs Keldeo's Hydro Pump, and with Rest, is not troubled by Scald's burn chance. If Stealth Rocks are up, then Secret Sword will 3HKO, but you can use Rest after switching in. Although this Gyarados set is a counter to the listed Keldeo set, H.P. Electric is common, although moreso on Scarf sets, so watch out for that! Make sure this set has some sort of entry hazard support.
Hate to be bearer of silly news, but there is also the worry of Sr coming in on yah which I think with the 36 Def EVs is still a 3HKO, but cant calc atm so not sure (hey, its football day) as ya know, has to counter in even worst of situations at times (scald may hinder it a bit too at times so idk). It reminds me of Azu and since it was a counter I think it is fine but just the SR makes me wonder is all.
Dragalge @ Choice Specs
Ability: Poison Point
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Def
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Bomb
- Hydro Pump / Scald
- Focus Blast / HP Fire
Dragalge is an interesting Pokemon, with pretty high special defense, and good special attack and defense, it is not too shavy as a bulky specs user. Too bad with extremely low HP and Speed, it lacks what it needs to be able to have an huge impact on even the NU meta. Though it does have some niches, being a Keldeo counter/hard check is one.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Dragalge: 112-132 (33.5 - 39.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Dragalge: 113-133 (33.8 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 312-367 (96.5 - 113.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Standard set here. Outrage for late game, if not, use Dragon Claw. Earthquake to fuck Heatran, Fire Punch for Skarm. I know it has to compete with CharX but not wasting a mega slot is nice. Anyway, Dragonite can take any hit from Spec Keldeo (not icy wind but victim's set doesn't hav), even if it losts its Multiscale, and Lum Berry heals the burn from Scald, and almost no Keldeo will try to stay in and keep scalding because of Dragon Dance. Some cal:
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 66-78 (20.4 - 24.1%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Synthesis
Megasaur is a big threat for the fact it can check numerous threats. You can come in on basically all moves except HP Flying, mega evolve, and Giga Drain to get some health back. It's best to lure a STAB move since Megasaur resists both of them. And since Keldeo is choiced, you can basically Giga Drain the life out of Keldeo, hopefully in one shot.
Bulky Defog Latias even with Stealth Rock on her side of the field can come in on Specs Keldeo time and time again with Roost for recovery. All moves that are used by this Keldeo variant are 3HKOs at best on this Latias spread with Stealth Rocks factored in. Latias can proceed to take out Keldeo with Psyshock and if necessary Roost off damage.
i've just do some calculations and it seems that the offensive variant of Latias can still take 2 hits from this Keldeo variant with an exception of Secret Sword which has 1,6% chance of 2hko after SR lol
Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 20 SpA / 236 SpD
Calm Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
Specially defensive Sylveon is a great check to strong special attackers such as Specs Keldeo. With a great 130 base Special Defense and a resistance to Secret Sword, Sylveon can easily tank a hit or two and threaten back with a super effective Hyper Voice. There are three viable EV spreads for checking Keldeo, in my opinion:
252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
252 HP / 20 SpA / 236 SpD
252 HP / 96 SpA / 164 SpD
As you invest progressively more into Special Attack, you pick up more guaranteed OHKOs on Keldeo, but you also sacrifice a bit of bulk, weakening your ability to tank special hits. I personally think the middle spread is the best, because it's enough Special Attack to hit an important number for KOing Keldeo, while also not sacrificing too much on bulk.
Anyways, all three EV spreads can tank two Hydro Pumps, Keldeo's best option, meaning you can come in on a Hydro Pump, tank another one, and then hit back.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 164+ SpD Sylveon: 171-202 (44.5 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Sylveon: 162-192 (42.1 - 50%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sylveon: 160-190 (41.6 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
When hitting back, 4 Special Attack Sylveon sometimes doesn't OHKO, making it a slightly worse check to Specs Keldeo (unless your plan is to PP stall out Hydro Pump with Wish/Protect).
4 SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 300-354 (92.8 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 300-354 (92.8 - 109.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Running 20 Special Attack EVs solves this problem. It doesn't really affect your bulk much at all, and you hit an important damage threshold, letting you OHKO Keldeo 100% of the time after rocks.
20 SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 306-360 (94.7 - 111.4%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
20 SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 306-360 (94.7 - 111.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Finally, if you desperately have to score the OHKO on Keldeo and can't guarantee that Stealth Rock will be up, you can run 96 Special Attack, though this does come with a noticeable loss in bulk.
96 SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 324-384 (100.3 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
----------------------
Also, if we're allowed to do two entries, I'd like to nominate specially defensive Cresselia as a counter. I can type that up as well if I have permission.
Also, if we're allowed to do two entries, I'd like to nominate specially defensive Cresselia as a counter. I can type that up as well if I have permission.
I must have missed it, since all I did was skim the other replies to see what had been done before and his post was short enough that I could have possibly just scrolled past it by accident.
Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- Air Slash
- Scald
- Defog
- Rest
I want to nominate a D rank Defogger, Mantine. Water immunity thanks to water absorb and max defense to reduce the secret sword damage. Scald and air slash are great stab for a defensive pokemon and Rest for recovery . 248 evs in HP to minimize the damage taken from stealth rock.
Maybe not the best but the other counter already appointed.
8 SpA Mantine Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 150-176 (46.4 - 54.4%) -- 52% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mantine: 93-110 (27.9 - 33%) -- 88.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hidden Power Flying vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mantine: 73-87 (21.9 - 26.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
I. Frigging. Hate. Keldeo. Such a prima Donnna sometimes I swear.
Anyway, lets go check then.
CHECK
Talonflame
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Item: Choice Band
-Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- U-Turn
- Aerial Ace/whatever
I despise this thing but it was able to decimate the damn pony in 1v1 fights. Basically corner the horse and click BB. You are losing half your health in SR so unless you have that down don't try switching in o that Secret Sword. Basically its your basic revenge killer that stops you no matter what.
This doesn't count because it's a strict revenge kiler. Any of the Water moves OHKO this Talonflame.
I have a hard check
Togekiss @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Roost
- Air Slash
- Thunder Wave
- Heal Bell/Defog
You can have Heal Bell or Defog depending of the mecessities of your team. Defensive Togekiss with special investment is a great check of Keldeo. With Leftovers it onyl has a chance of "2HKO with Hydro Pump and Scald isn't a guarantee 3HKO. With Heal Bell it can cure any Scald's burn (if it happens) and with Air Slash it can 2HKO this Keldeo. Roost for reliable recovery and Thunder Wave to paralyze him, causing Keldeo being much slower and have to face possible Air Slash flinches.
Why a check? Because Keldeo has a slim chance of 2HKO with Hydro Pump or 3HKO with Scald and because Togekiss is much slower than any Keldeo. Also because Stealth Rock may be present on the field.
Relevant calcs:
8 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 206-246 (63.7 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Togekiss: 175-207 (46.9 - 55.4%) -- 16% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 54-64 (14.4 - 17.1%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Scald vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Togekiss: 127-151 (34 - 40.4%) -- 41.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hidden Power Flying vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Togekiss: 64-76 (17.1 - 20.3%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
Even if i have a defensive spread, i resist against the 2 special stabbed moves of keldeo; against sacred sword, i have 252 evs in def. This is the standard crocune. Some calcs:
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 135-160 (33.4 - 39.6%) -- 19.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
That's the best he can do.
I can rest, start using sleep talk and calm mind; after 2 cm nothing can kill crocune, so i can force the switch of keldeo, if my opponent don't wanna lost the match. I can even stall the PP of SSword with pressure simply using rest.
Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Standard Crocune set. Isn't really bothered by any of Keldeo's moves:
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 135-160 (33.4 - 39.7%) -- 21.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 118-140 (29.2 - 34.7%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
At the very least, if they get a high roll, you can pivot into something that doesn't mind taking Secret Sword. Otherwise, you can easily set up against Keldeo.
Also Secret Sword can be a 3 hit ko and for a full rest you need 3 turns (use Rest and sleep 2 turns), while Suicune can't do much back, outside of maybe getting a burn.
4 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 43-51 (13.3 - 15.7%) -- possible 7HKO
This means it doesn't fit in the definition of a counter
"Pokémon A counters Pokémon B if Pokémon A can manually switch into Pokémon B and still win every time, even under the worst case scenario, without factoring in hax" - which isn't the case => not a Counter.
Also Secret Sword can be a 3 hit ko and for a full rest you need 3 turns (use Rest and sleep 2 turns), while Suicune can't do much back, outside of maybe getting a burn.
i know there's a restalk gyara set already as a counter but this is a godly check.
status b8 gyarados is beyond deadly in the current meta, as it takes advantage of keldeo & other top threats to use as set-up fodder.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Scald vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 97-115 (28.4 - 33.7%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 126-148 (36.9 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 134-158 (39.2 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
yeah yeah i aint scurred {pr0tip tho: don't switch in directly. double scald burn would be bad. it's 100x better to come in clean and scare keldeo out}
252+ Atk Gyarados Bounce vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 324-384 (100.3 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
keldeo means a free dragon dance to gyarados. there are not a lot of pokémon barring skarm/ferrothorn/slowbro/quagsire that want to take a +1 bounce or waterfall, and half of those get trapped nicely by magnezone/magneton. +1 gyara baits in the thundurus-i prankster t-wave like nobody's business; surprise your foe with a lum berry + sub and grab a free moxie boost while you're at it, or just plow through for the moxie boost w/o sub. this pokémon is actually a wrecking ball and is dangerously underrated, arguably way easier to sweep with than mega gyarados, and uses common top-tier threats like keldeo, greninja, and heatran as DD bait. it also has the added benefit of bluffing the mega when the opp doesn't see lefties, often prompting them to bring in azumarill or venusaur which cannot take a boosted bounce after minimal prior damage & supply a further moxie boost.
earthquake is good, powerful neutral damage that offers perfect coverage with flying/water STAB - barring rotom-w. it's also perfectly accurate, which is important given bounce's shaky 85% hit rate. however, i'm finding the lum berry + sub status lure to offer absurd set up opportunities, and water/fly is only resisted by rotom-w / mega amphy / empoleon in OU. have something to take out bulky waters & steel walls and the wrecking ball will clean up matches, easy.
Toxicroak is the very definition of niche. Dry skin is literally the only reason you should use him. Because of this, 3/4ths of Kelds moves don't really do much to him, which classifies him as a check. As long as he doesn't come in on HP Flying, Croak can set up an SD and proceed to OHKO with Gunk Shot.
It's also worth mentioning that Crocune literally runs for his life from his set =]
Toxicroak is the very definition of niche. Dry skin is literally the only reason you should use him. Because of this, 3/4ths of Kelds moves don't really do much to him, which classifies him as a check. As long as he doesn't come in on HP Flying, Croak can set up an SD and proceed to OHKO with Gunk Shot.
It's also worth mentioning that Crocune literally runs for his life from his set =]
Choice specs Noivern is a great check to this Keldeo. He can come in on all keldeo's move and ko with air slash. Infiltrator is the preferred ability because it allows Noivern to hit past Substitutes as well as Light Screen and Reflect. Switcheroo is used to lock into a move pokemon like suicune.
252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 326-386 (100.9 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Noivern: 160-189 (51.4 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Noivern: 124-147 (39.8 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Noivern: 117-138 (37.6 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hidden Power Flying vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Noivern: 117-138 (37.6 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Ok so my avatar really describes my situation rn. Thanks for all the entries; I should archive them and maybe update the hall of fame by Wednesday. Anyway, posting the next victim won't take much time at all, so here we go:
Excadrill @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin
Sand Offense is getting really popular atm, and Sand Rush Excadrill is one of the mons responsible. For this, focus on what beats it in the sand, unless your check/counter can remove the sand reliably and viably.
Have fun! :)
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
- Stone Edge
Probably one of the best Exca checks out there. Iron Head barely 4HKOes after rocks, while Landos EQ is a clean OHKO back. U-Turn allows Lando to pivot out on the obvious switch out, which allows you to gain momentum. The defensive set is the best set for Handling Excadrill, but a Scarf set with Superpower allows you to take on Air Balloon variants. I really wish I could say more but its really as straightforward as send in Lando T, then pivot out with U-Turn on the switch.
Some calcs:
0 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 446-528 (123.5 - 146.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 99-118 (25.9 - 30.8%) -- 7.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Landorus-Therian [Offensive Scarf] - Counter
Anyway, here we go. Much like the set posted above this set aims to put Excadrill in a tough position. Either forcing it out or to kill it right on the spot. Now this set that I am suggesting is pretty good not only as a Drill check but it acts as a very nice lure. Lures in Balloon variants of Drill/Tran as well as beating Greninja 1v1. Here we go.
Pretty sure this set has been released somewhere in this forum and that it may not seem as a surprise that I am suggesting this set. Choiced users locked into a stat dropping move doesn't sound very cool at all, but being able to scare off Drill or even potentially neutering it there right there and then makes it a pretty solid mon on your team. It also punches a big gaping hole into Ferros that switch in. Not advised tho since you aim to hide the fact that this mon has superpower.
-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Landorus-T: 136-161 (42.6 - 50.4%) -- 1.6% chance to 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Landorus-T: 86-101 (26.9 - 31.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Landorus-T Superpower vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 426-502 (118 - 139%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252 Atk Landorus-T Superpower vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 284-336 (78.6 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (This scenario is when Lando T has already used SP once prior to Drill coming in)
Pretty sure we don't need to show how much EQ does riiiiiiight?
DO U SEE THESE MOVES???
Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Pain Split
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Volt Switch
OK, so Rotom-W is actually becoming really good in the current metagame, because Azumarill, BirdSpam + Magnezone, and Sand Offense is everywhere. Literally everywhere (cancer af). It singlehandedly beats all these threats, and imo it's the one best counter to Sand Rush Excadrill rn. Being immune and 4x-resisting Excadrill's dual STABs, while taking little to no damage from its coverage moves, Excadrill can't really touch Rotom. In return, Hydro Pump OHKOs uninvested (when it hits), and Will-O-Wisp renders it useless.
252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Rotom-W: 64-75 (21 - 24.6%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 350-414 (96.9 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
