Well I mean ofc a logical argument as to how it beats it will convince me. I was just naming the main ways to beat it that I could recall
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Victim of the Week: OM Edition [2v2 Doubles - Infernape & Mega Alakazam]
- Thread starter Adrian Marin
- Start date
I'll post an unconventional set to hopefully spark a discussion (remember, we can talk about others sets than our own n_n!)
Shedinja @ Focus Sash
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpA
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD / 19 Spe
- Baton Pass
- X-Scissor
- Shadow Sneak
- Giga Drain
Yeah, Shedinja counters a ton of shit, but here's why it stands out versus Musharna: Thunder Wave. Thunder Wave means that it cannot be hurt by Toxic or Will-O-Wisp, leaving it only open to super effective attacks and entry hazards. This set is also not the standard - it's very unconventional. Baton Pass is chosen to keep up momentum and use it vs. Musharna when it Baton Passes. This is where the IVs and Nature for Speed come into play - 19 Speed EVs + a Brave Nature sets Shedinja at 93 Speed, one less than Musharna. X-Scissor and Shadow Sneak are just for basic STAB attacks and do something to Musharna. Giga Drain is another unconventional thing, but it's proven to be quite effective. Giga Drain is very useful to OHKO Carracosta after Spikes and a bit of prior damage, enabling it to not be total setup fodder. At -1 it'll obviously OHKO of course. Giga Drain is also very cool for other 4x weak things like Golem and Barbaracle. Encouraging you to test out some funky, non-standard stuff like this - we all know Dark-types can take on Musharna, but what else do they do besides that? Shedinja has a unique niche because it counters a ton of shit and this set is trying to innovate to make something original into something off the beaten path.
Shedinja @ Focus Sash
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpA
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD / 19 Spe
- Baton Pass
- X-Scissor
- Shadow Sneak
- Giga Drain
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@above: 0 Spe IV Shedinja is probably better anyway because slow BP is useful vs stuff that Shedinja walls anyway
Technically nothing counters this Musharna because of Baton Pass. For example the Bastiodon counter I'm about to post isn't a counter in the strictest sense because Mush can just BP out to a Fighting-type as I switch in. But whatever:
Counter:
Bastiodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Magic Coat
- Toxic
- Roar
Bastiodon is a good Pokemon on stall teams because its typing gives it important resistances to birds and Psychic-types. In addition, Roar gives it a move to phaze and it gets Stealth Rock. Magic Coat prevents it from becoming entry hazards fodder. Bastiodon counters any Musharna, CM or not, because of its massive bulk and typing. It gets Roar to phaze any Musharna trying to Baton Pass out. Finally, Toxic is great because it cripples any non-Heal Bell Musharna, and because it's a Steel-type, it won't get affected by Synchronize.
Check:
Sneasel @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch
- Taunt
- Pursuit
Sneasel cannot come in on Thunder Wave, however if it gets in safely it can proceed to play a number of mindgames with Musharna. Thanks to Taunt, Musharna will be unable to use Baton Pass, nor can it recover, and can be hit by a Pursuit. Taunt prevents Musharna from staying in to try and recover from a Knock Off or cripple Sneasel, so it is a safer move should you predict Musharna to stay in. Essentially if Musharna loses the 50-50 it'll be Pursuited for major damage, which hinders its walling capabilities. You can even run Lum Berry on Sneasel to make it a much safer switch-in.
In case you're doubting Taunt + Pursuit Sneasel, it is a pretty useful Pokemon because it also defeats defensive Misdreavus and Haunter. You can try a bulkier Eviolite spread for this purpose but I haven't tried that yet.
Technically nothing counters this Musharna because of Baton Pass. For example the Bastiodon counter I'm about to post isn't a counter in the strictest sense because Mush can just BP out to a Fighting-type as I switch in. But whatever:
Counter:
Bastiodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Magic Coat
- Toxic
- Roar
Bastiodon is a good Pokemon on stall teams because its typing gives it important resistances to birds and Psychic-types. In addition, Roar gives it a move to phaze and it gets Stealth Rock. Magic Coat prevents it from becoming entry hazards fodder. Bastiodon counters any Musharna, CM or not, because of its massive bulk and typing. It gets Roar to phaze any Musharna trying to Baton Pass out. Finally, Toxic is great because it cripples any non-Heal Bell Musharna, and because it's a Steel-type, it won't get affected by Synchronize.
Check:
Sneasel @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch
- Taunt
- Pursuit
Sneasel cannot come in on Thunder Wave, however if it gets in safely it can proceed to play a number of mindgames with Musharna. Thanks to Taunt, Musharna will be unable to use Baton Pass, nor can it recover, and can be hit by a Pursuit. Taunt prevents Musharna from staying in to try and recover from a Knock Off or cripple Sneasel, so it is a safer move should you predict Musharna to stay in. Essentially if Musharna loses the 50-50 it'll be Pursuited for major damage, which hinders its walling capabilities. You can even run Lum Berry on Sneasel to make it a much safer switch-in.
In case you're doubting Taunt + Pursuit Sneasel, it is a pretty useful Pokemon because it also defeats defensive Misdreavus and Haunter. You can try a bulkier Eviolite spread for this purpose but I haven't tried that yet.
I'm just gonna make a new post for Krok
Krokorok @ Eviolite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD (not specialized, as the EVs don't matter in this instance)
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
This set is about as close to a counter as you can get for PivotMushy. Knock Off alone severely threatens it, often times forcing a switch. Taunt+Pursuit are kinda a combo deal, assuming you've already Knocked Off Mushy's item, as taunt prevents healing and baton pass, forcing a hard switch, making it free game for Pursuit. Rocks are just for when you can get a free turn against Mushy, and you want some free hazards.
Krokorok @ Eviolite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD (not specialized, as the EVs don't matter in this instance)
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
This set is about as close to a counter as you can get for PivotMushy. Knock Off alone severely threatens it, often times forcing a switch. Taunt+Pursuit are kinda a combo deal, assuming you've already Knocked Off Mushy's item, as taunt prevents healing and baton pass, forcing a hard switch, making it free game for Pursuit. Rocks are just for when you can get a free turn against Mushy, and you want some free hazards.
EV
Banned deucer.
*sweep sweep sweep*
Try to keep discussion on track about checks/counters that you'd think work in the metagame. While some things may look like a check or counter, do you think it's relevant? Would you seriously recommend it to a new player? Occasionally a "quirky" check/counter may come up and it's fair to ask the user how they think it works in the rest of the metagame. But if it's obvious the post is just for lols rather than trying to fit it into a niche, it will be deleted.
Try to keep discussion on track about checks/counters that you'd think work in the metagame. While some things may look like a check or counter, do you think it's relevant? Would you seriously recommend it to a new player? Occasionally a "quirky" check/counter may come up and it's fair to ask the user how they think it works in the rest of the metagame. But if it's obvious the post is just for lols rather than trying to fit it into a niche, it will be deleted.
My entry as a check to this Musharna set is Substitute + Disable Haunter.
Haunter @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Disable
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
This Haunter set is a check to Musharna, but it isn't a counter, as it doesn't want to take Psychic or Thunder Wave immediately. However, it can come in on an obvious Moonlight, or of course if something has fainted. Basically, the set works very simply. Typically when Musharna is in a matchup with Haunter, it'll switch out, at which point a Subsitute will be gained and Haunter will be able to do work to the opponent's team. If Musharna does stay in (due it having enough health to not be KOed by Shadow Ball, which is around >65%, and not wanting to face a Haunter behind a Substitute), then it will either use Psychic or Thunder Wave. If it uses Thunder Wave as Haunter uses Substitute, Haunter can 2HKO it with Shadow Ball while it is forced to break the Substitute with Psychic or switch out, Haunter winning the matchup. If it uses Psychic as Haunter uses Substitute, Haunter will then use Disable to prevent Psychic from being used again, then it will Substitute again. There is a small risk in Musharna Thunder Waving as Haunter uses Disable but that would require the Musharna user to know that it is a SubDisable set and not something like Sub + Will-o-Wisp + Taunt and risk losing momentum if he mispredicts, making it a very unlikely scenario. Typically, using Substitute on the Psychic twice is a good plan since it usually allows you to discover whether the opponent thinks you have Disable or not; it is very unlikely it will Thunder Wave on the third turn of the matchup.
Haunter @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Disable
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
This Haunter set is a check to Musharna, but it isn't a counter, as it doesn't want to take Psychic or Thunder Wave immediately. However, it can come in on an obvious Moonlight, or of course if something has fainted. Basically, the set works very simply. Typically when Musharna is in a matchup with Haunter, it'll switch out, at which point a Subsitute will be gained and Haunter will be able to do work to the opponent's team. If Musharna does stay in (due it having enough health to not be KOed by Shadow Ball, which is around >65%, and not wanting to face a Haunter behind a Substitute), then it will either use Psychic or Thunder Wave. If it uses Thunder Wave as Haunter uses Substitute, Haunter can 2HKO it with Shadow Ball while it is forced to break the Substitute with Psychic or switch out, Haunter winning the matchup. If it uses Psychic as Haunter uses Substitute, Haunter will then use Disable to prevent Psychic from being used again, then it will Substitute again. There is a small risk in Musharna Thunder Waving as Haunter uses Disable but that would require the Musharna user to know that it is a SubDisable set and not something like Sub + Will-o-Wisp + Taunt and risk losing momentum if he mispredicts, making it a very unlikely scenario. Typically, using Substitute on the Psychic twice is a good plan since it usually allows you to discover whether the opponent thinks you have Disable or not; it is very unlikely it will Thunder Wave on the third turn of the matchup.
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My entry as a counter to Musharna is SubSplit Dusclops.
Dusclops @ Eviolite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Pain Split
- Will-O-Wisp
- Substitute
- Seismic Toss
Dusclops takes a whopping 19.3% of health from a max range psychic, even a crit won't always break a sub. Assuming Mushy batonpasses into, say, Sneasel, after Dusclops is brought out, Dusclops will still have a turn to burn it and switch out. Assuming Mushy doesn't switch, it'll either paralyze Dusclops, who really couldn't care a whole lot about paralysis as her speed is frankly abysmal. Bringing on Dusclops into a t-wave can even be beneficial as Dusclops is now free to burn Musharna without a care about burning herself as well. Dusclops can also wear down Musharna with a couple well timed pain splits, effectively denying Moonlight.
The only situation switching dusclops into Musharna would not turn momentum in your favor would be if Musharna BPs/switches into something with knock off. Not sure if that equivilates to a check instead of a counter, but I don't think it would personally.
Dusclops @ Eviolite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Pain Split
- Will-O-Wisp
- Substitute
- Seismic Toss
Dusclops takes a whopping 19.3% of health from a max range psychic, even a crit won't always break a sub. Assuming Mushy batonpasses into, say, Sneasel, after Dusclops is brought out, Dusclops will still have a turn to burn it and switch out. Assuming Mushy doesn't switch, it'll either paralyze Dusclops, who really couldn't care a whole lot about paralysis as her speed is frankly abysmal. Bringing on Dusclops into a t-wave can even be beneficial as Dusclops is now free to burn Musharna without a care about burning herself as well. Dusclops can also wear down Musharna with a couple well timed pain splits, effectively denying Moonlight.
The only situation switching dusclops into Musharna would not turn momentum in your favor would be if Musharna BPs/switches into something with knock off. Not sure if that equivilates to a check instead of a counter, but I don't think it would personally.
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I would like to point out that seeing Black Sludge on Haunter is a dead giveaway that it is a SubDisable set. No other set uses this item and it's the only time when Black Sludge isn't inferior to Life Orb, Eviolite etc because it's more reliant on getting up multiple subs. Therefore the situation you mentioned about Thunder Waving on the Disable is very possible, although I concede it's pretty difficult for the Musharna user to win so many mindgamesMy entry as a check to this Musharna set is Substitute + Disable Haunter.
Haunter @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Disable
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
This Haunter set is a check to Musharna, but it isn't a counter, as it doesn't want to take Psychic or Thunder Wave immediately. However, it can come in on an obvious Moonlight, or of course if something has fainted. Basically, the set works very simply. Typically when Musharna is in a matchup with Haunter, it'll switch out, at which point a Subsitute will be gained and Haunter will be able to do work to the opponent's team. If Musharna does stay in (due it having enough health to not be KOed by Shadow Ball, which is around >65%, and not wanting to face a Haunter behind a Substitute), then it will either use Psychic or Thunder Wave. If it uses Thunder Wave as Haunter uses Substitute, Haunter can 2HKO it with Shadow Ball while it is forced to break the Substitute with Psychic or switch out, Haunter winning the matchup. If it uses Psychic as Haunter uses Substitute, Haunter will then use Disable to prevent Psychic from being used again, then it will Substitute again. There is a small risk in Musharna Thunder Waving as Haunter uses Disable but that would require the Musharna user to know that it is a SubDisable set and not something like Sub + Will-o-Wisp + Taunt and risk losing momentum if he mispredicts, making it a very unlikely scenario. Typically, using Substitute on the Psychic twice is a good plan since it usually allows you to discover whether the opponent thinks you have Disable or not; it is very unlikely it will Thunder Wave on the third turn of the matchup.
That makes sense, even though I would assume Sub + Taunt + WOW also uses Black Sludge, as bulky Eviolite sets have competition with Misdreavus. Still, to effectively lure Musharna one could use something like Eviolite or Dread Plate and be paired with a WishPasser such as Lickilicky or Flareon. Optimally, one could still attempt to setup any amount of Substitutes baiting a Thunder Wave, and it's a very difficult matchup for the Musharna user to win.
Natu @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD or
248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Def
Impish / Careful Nature
- Night Shade
- Roost
- Haze
- U-turn
Natu is a fullproof counter to any Musharna set, both Calm Mind and the one posted.
Natu takes minimal damage from Psychic, is immune to Thunder Wave, Hazes away CM boosts, and can win 1v1 or U-turn out thanks to Moonlight only having 8 pps and doesn't actually require the infinite amount of support Shedinja does because it is actually useful to switch into stuff like Garbodor and Roselia and walling them to no end
Also
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EV
Banned deucer.
BUMP. Adrian Marin I want us to do Latios from Monotype next in spirit of the new Monotype viability rankings. :D Anttyaz is a good resource if you need help with the set.
Reserving the based lord Metang
Week 6 (Monotype):
Thanks for posting stellar checks and counters to arguably the most dangerous Pokemon in the PU metagame! Please feel free to post more checks/counters to other victims as we are lacking quite a few. PM me if you're wondering why your/an entry wasn't chosen. This week's victim is Latios in Monotype! Don't let this week's victim die!
Latios (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Trick
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Surf
Latios is an excellent Pokemon in the current Monotype metagame. Its ability to pivot various threats, as well as outspeed them together with its fantastic special attack allows Latios to pose as a very powerful threat. Bear in mind that counters to this set don't exactly have to not care about Trick; as such, it's ok to post traditional special walls as counters to this set.
Also, if you intend to reserve a check/counter, please try to complete it within at least a week's time.
I'm also really sorry about my recent inactivity, so VoTW's will now be posted on schedule.
Thanks for posting stellar checks and counters to arguably the most dangerous Pokemon in the PU metagame! Please feel free to post more checks/counters to other victims as we are lacking quite a few. PM me if you're wondering why your/an entry wasn't chosen. This week's victim is Latios in Monotype! Don't let this week's victim die!
Latios (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Trick
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Surf
Latios is an excellent Pokemon in the current Monotype metagame. Its ability to pivot various threats, as well as outspeed them together with its fantastic special attack allows Latios to pose as a very powerful threat. Bear in mind that counters to this set don't exactly have to not care about Trick; as such, it's ok to post traditional special walls as counters to this set.
Also, if you intend to reserve a check/counter, please try to complete it within at least a week's time.
I'm also really sorry about my recent inactivity, so VoTW's will now be posted on schedule.
Counter
Tyranitar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sand Stream
Evs: 248 HP / 56 Atk / 200 SpD
Careful Nature
-Stone Edge
-Crunch
-Pursuit
-Earthquake
AV Tyranitar is one of the bulkiest pokemon in the game. It is a great counter to most special attackers lacking Focus Blast, and still a counter to some that do carry it. It is also a great counter to Latios, as it doesn't mind anything from it too much. T-Tar is immune to Psyshock, and takes around 30% from Draco Meteor or Surf. Trick can be annoying, but then Tyranitar can promptly Pursuit Latios, which has a an incredibly high chance to OHKO on the switch after one round of sandstorm damage, and even if Latios escapes it can't use Trick again, and its remaining HP will be so pathetic the Assault Vest won't matter. If it locks itself into something other than Trick, you can either Crunch if you think it will stay in or Pursuit on the switch. If it is stuck in Psyshock, simply laugh as Pursuit kills it on the switch.
Calcs:
56 Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 282-332 (93.3 - 109.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (this is not including one round of Sandstorm damage, and is the same power as Pursuit on the switch
56 Atk Tyranitar Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 140-168 (46.3 - 55.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage (one round of Sandstorm)
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 200+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 108-127 (26.7 - 31.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Surf vs. 248 HP / 200+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 100-118 (24.8 - 29.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO
Its not not even worth mentioning, but in case you care about HP Fire:
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 200+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 17-20 (4.2 - 4.9%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Tyranitar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sand Stream
Evs: 248 HP / 56 Atk / 200 SpD
Careful Nature
-Stone Edge
-Crunch
-Pursuit
-Earthquake
AV Tyranitar is one of the bulkiest pokemon in the game. It is a great counter to most special attackers lacking Focus Blast, and still a counter to some that do carry it. It is also a great counter to Latios, as it doesn't mind anything from it too much. T-Tar is immune to Psyshock, and takes around 30% from Draco Meteor or Surf. Trick can be annoying, but then Tyranitar can promptly Pursuit Latios, which has a an incredibly high chance to OHKO on the switch after one round of sandstorm damage, and even if Latios escapes it can't use Trick again, and its remaining HP will be so pathetic the Assault Vest won't matter. If it locks itself into something other than Trick, you can either Crunch if you think it will stay in or Pursuit on the switch. If it is stuck in Psyshock, simply laugh as Pursuit kills it on the switch.
Calcs:
56 Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 282-332 (93.3 - 109.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (this is not including one round of Sandstorm damage, and is the same power as Pursuit on the switch
56 Atk Tyranitar Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 140-168 (46.3 - 55.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage (one round of Sandstorm)
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 200+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 108-127 (26.7 - 31.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Surf vs. 248 HP / 200+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 100-118 (24.8 - 29.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO
Its not not even worth mentioning, but in case you care about HP Fire:
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 200+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 17-20 (4.2 - 4.9%) -- possibly the worst move ever
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Nominating Gardevoir-Mega as a counter in the absence of entry hazards, and a check with them.
Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind / Substitute
- Substitute / Hidden Power Ground
Bulky Mega Gardevoir can switch into every move on the specified Latios set, resisting one STAB and being immune to the other. It is even a mega, so is not crippled by Trick. Needless to say, Pixilated Hyper Voice obliterates Latios, dealing well in excess of 100%. Substitute takes advantage of a predicted switch, with Calm Mind/Hidden Power Ground giving Mega Gardevoir the ability to plow through counters.
Seeing as this is monotype, should we aim to provide a check/counter for every type?
Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind / Substitute
- Substitute / Hidden Power Ground
Bulky Mega Gardevoir can switch into every move on the specified Latios set, resisting one STAB and being immune to the other. It is even a mega, so is not crippled by Trick. Needless to say, Pixilated Hyper Voice obliterates Latios, dealing well in excess of 100%. Substitute takes advantage of a predicted switch, with Calm Mind/Hidden Power Ground giving Mega Gardevoir the ability to plow through counters.
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Gardevoir: 139-164 (41 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 135-159 (39.8 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 462-546 (152.9 - 180.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 135-159 (39.8 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 462-546 (152.9 - 180.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Seeing as this is monotype, should we aim to provide a check/counter for every type?
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Life orb would probably be the better item even though I don't play mono anyways reserving heatran cause no eq 9.9
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Surf vs. 248 HP / 220+ SpD Heatran: 210-248 (54.5 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Latios (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Trick
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Surf
e.e
EDIT: assumed it was reserved as a counter for some reason, my bad
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It's the secondary slash therefore heat ran is a check
DoW
formally Death on Wings
Nominating Drapion as a check.
Drapion @ Assault Vest
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Poison Jab
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
Assault Vest Drapion, a relatively common pokemon on poison teams to try to counter psychic, can come in on any of Specs Latios' attacks outside of Draco Meteor. It is, of course, immune to psyshock, while Surf does a measly 42.5% maximum. Drapion can then proceed to Knock off and OHKO, or pursuit (which does 98 - 115.8%) if Latios is predicted to switch which can put it in a nasty position.
Of course, Latios can OHKO or 2HKO with draco meteor and outspeeds, meaning Drapion isn't a counter. However it still serves as a very strong check in any case, as often Latios will make the mistake of going for psyshock against a poison team.
Drapion @ Assault Vest
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Poison Jab
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
Assault Vest Drapion, a relatively common pokemon on poison teams to try to counter psychic, can come in on any of Specs Latios' attacks outside of Draco Meteor. It is, of course, immune to psyshock, while Surf does a measly 42.5% maximum. Drapion can then proceed to Knock off and OHKO, or pursuit (which does 98 - 115.8%) if Latios is predicted to switch which can put it in a nasty position.
Of course, Latios can OHKO or 2HKO with draco meteor and outspeeds, meaning Drapion isn't a counter. However it still serves as a very strong check in any case, as often Latios will make the mistake of going for psyshock against a poison team.
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Drapion doesn't learn Sucker Punch:[
DoW
formally Death on Wings
Herp derp, don't know why I thought it learned that. Edited my post.
Skuntank learns Sucker Punch, would that work better?
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 248+ SpD Assault Vest Skuntank: 207-244 (50.4 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-2 252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 248+ SpD Assault Vest Skuntank: 103-123 (25.1 - 30%) -- 2.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
8 Atk Skuntank Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 198-234 (65.5 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Very shaky, but still...
and Skuntank really wants to defog anyway. Was just mentioning it.
