Victim of the Week: OM Edition [2v2 Doubles - Infernape & Mega Alakazam]

[Adrian Marin]

Week 2 (Almost Any Ability):

Thanks a lot for providing checks and counters to Diggersby! Feel free to PM me if you're wondering why your/an entry wasn't chosen. This week's victim is Keldeo from Almost Any Ability!

Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind
- Scald

Keldeo is one of the most defining threats in the AAA metagame. Keldeo's firepower with Choice Specs and Adaptability narrows down its common counters severely.

 

[skies]

Reserving Mega Venusaur.

 

[Ranger Mike]

ReservingPringles

 

[EV]

- Slowking
- Counter
- Slowking is an immediate threat to Keldeo, who must switch or will be KO'd in every circumstance should it stay in. Slowking takes no SE (or even neutral) damage from any move Keldeo packs on the set above and would only fear a stray Hidden Power, but even then Poison Heal+Protect would make up for it. Besides being a cold stop to Keldeo, it has versatility in the rest of the AAA metagame. Beating the biggest offensive threat in AAA should not be taken lightly, though. That's a huge feat in itself but the fact that Slowking has other applications only underscores how good it is.

Headache @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 196 SDef
Relaxed Nature
- Protect
- Psyshock
- Scald
- Dragon Tail

The EVs are custom so Keldeo can almost never 3HKO Slowking without Stealth Rocks. In return Slowking always 2HKOs with Psyshock. Protect is pretty much mandatory for recouping health with Poison Heal. STAB Scald may burn a switch-in. Dragon Tail is good utility in general for phazing out threats.

Calcs:

252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 196 SpD Slowking: 139-164 (35.2 - 41.6%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 60+ Def Slowking: 141-166 (35.7 - 42.1%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal
0 SpA Slowking Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 188-224 (58.2 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Ghoul King]

Check/Counter/Sorta
Volcarona @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Fiery Dance
- Giga Drain
- Quiver Dance

I run this in my AAA team, and it's obnoxious to Keldeo. If we're talking Choice Specs Keldeo it can easily work as a hard counter, because if Keldeo is locked into a Water move it can't touch Volcarona. If it uses Secret Sword though, uh....

252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 197-232 (63.1 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Yeeaaaah. Since Volcarona is slower this is obviously less than optimal for a switch-in, especially if the enemy has Stealth Rock up and you die instantly. Even running pure defense wall gets you...

252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Volcarona: 142-168 (37.9 - 44.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Yaaay. To be fair, without Stealth Rock it becomes a 3HKO, which is more viable.

+1 252+ SpA Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 302-356 (93.4 - 110.2%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

On the other hand if Volcarona switches in from a KO and uses Giga Drain while Keldeo uses a Water move (I know, I know, it requires the opponent is either stupid or assuming you are stupid), then Keldeo has a better than 50% chance of instantly dying. Alternatively, you can Quiver Dance, they hit you with Water, they still stay in trying to Secret Sword or something, and definitely OHKO and jump up to full health even if Stealth Rock weakened you on the way in.

This was really honestly a bad, bad 'mon back when Aerilate wasn't banned and my usage of it was more a commentary on my preference for fun ideas over good ideas, but with Aerilate banned its biggest problem -that they'll just switch in in Dragonite and Extreme Speed you for a OHKO- no longer applies. Of course, it's second biggest problem -Stealth Rock- absolutely does apply so bleh.

Mostly it's reliant on the fact that I have never, even against high-Elo players, had anybody anticipate Storm Drain Volcarona unless they've fought me before and saw it then, so people pretty much always stick in and hit it with a Water move.

(I have no expectation this will be selected as a 'real' counter or check, but I've found this Volcarona useful for fighting Keldeo while still being useful for an array of other purposes, including messing with Poison Heal Suicune)

 

[Darkglade]

Counter
Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Perish Song
- Recover
- Stealth Rock/Giga Drain

Celebi is a pretty good counter to Keldeo while still providing team support. Keldeo has a very low chance of 3HKOing Celebi with Hydro Pump and Icy Wind

252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celebi: 129-152 (31.9 - 37.6%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celebi: 130-154 (32.1 - 38.1%) -- 0.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Even Secret Sword can't reliably 3HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 138-163 (34.1 - 40.3%) -- 42.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery.

This moveset and EVs allow Celebi to act as a slow pivot with U-turn, greatly increasing momentum while still staying healthy thanks to Regenerator. Perish Song can to used to phaze and Recover is useful for stalling the Perish Song turns. Since Keldeo is so common, Celebi will find many opportunities to set up Stealth Rocks as the opponent switches out, or if it isn't necessary, Giga Drain can be ran instead to 2HKO Keldeo and provide a strong STAB move.

0 SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 176-210 (54.4 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Celebi is also useful because it can check other threats like Suicune and Breloom without much trouble.

 

[ryan]

Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Storm Drain
252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Focus Blast
- Destiny Bond / Pain Split / Will-O-Wisp

So this isn't even just some thing I popped up on the spot. I actually used to use this in Ability Exchange last gen to do exactly what you're asking for: counter Keldeo. Gengar is immune to Secret Sword and gains a Special Attack boost from Hydro Pump and Scald. The only move Keldeo can use to touch Gengar is Icy Wind, and although it often 2HKOs, it has to both lock into the terribly weak Icy Wind and predict the switch and expect Gengar to be running a Water immune ability). If it does lock into Icy Wind, this gives you momentum because you can get a free switch into anything that doesn't mind taking an Icy Wind, which is a ton of things.

So it's technically just a really great check to Keldeo, but you don't want to be running hard counters to stuff on offense anyways. That pretty much means that this set is one of the best answers to Keldeo that offensive teams can carry. So for an offensive teams, it's as close to a counter as you can get, and you wouldn't run it outside of offensive teams anyways. Pick your poison I guess.

 

[ellipse]

Haven't played this meta since Aerilate was a thing but...

Counter
Chandelure @ Choice Specs/Choice Scarf
Ability: Storm Drain
Timid Nature
252 SpAtk/ 4 SpDef/ 252 Spd
-Shadow ball
-Fire blast
-Energy Ball
-Trick/ Memento

Typing gives it an immunity to Keldeo's Secret Sword, a resistance to icy wind, and thanks to Storm Drain, the ability to turn Hydro and Scald into instant +1s, so it has no way of actually damaging you. First two slots are for double STABs, and Energy Ball is to round out the coverage. Last slot is for supporting the team, Trick can cripple a switch in, and memento can make setup easy when you get low. Specs is run since you force the Keldeo user to switch, so you'll be able to hit the switch in with even more power, but scarf can allow it to function as a more overall revenge killer, and helps mitigate it's middling speed.

EDIT: Typed this in the more options/preview tab, posted it, then came back and saw someone already posted basically the same idea (ghost+water immunity), so yeah...Not trying to just steal an idea.

 

[skies]

Dropping Mega Venusuar, instead posting a god:

Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
​

This set provides a Keldeo counter to my team and is a fantastic Pokemon in general. This set completely walls Keldeo, being 9HKOed by Icy Wind lol, while also being immune to anything else Keldeo can throw at it. Water Absorb provides recovery as well which is amazing. Substitute blocks Will-O-Wisp and is great against unsuspecting Water-types. Toxic is to stall things out, while RestTalk provides recover. Doublade is a neat Pokemon overall and this set has performed exceptionally for me. I've tried Swords Dance as well, but I just am not a huge fan of it really.

 

[canno]

Dropping Mega Venusuar

Guess what I'm reserving then?

Hint: it starts with the letter "V"

 

[Kit Kasai]

Guess what I'm reserving then?

Hint: it starts with the letter "V"

Water absorb venonat?

 

[canno]

Water absorb venonat?

Close. It was Storm Drain Victini

 

[Kit Kasai]

Close. It was Storm Drain Victini

Um. Is it just me, or does that actually sound like a legit set o.o (Water absorb over storm drain through)

 

[canno]

Um. Is it just me, or does that actually sound like a legit set o.o (Water absorb over storm drain through)

maybe I should reserve water absorb victini

Here's Mega Venusaur! He's a counter!

-->

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Sleep Powder / Leech Seed

So Venusaur / Mega Venusaur pretty much switches into Keldeo easily without any problems, even pre-mega into an Icy Wind. Even though we're countering a special threat, physically defensive counters keldeo just fine. The spread and moveset are pretty standard - 16 speed outpaces adamant Azumarril. Intimidate is chosen as the pre-mega ability because its one of my favorite pre-mega abilities, especially since Venusaur is going to want to mega asap (at least imo). You can put a lot of things though - Magic Bounce, Magic Guard, ect. I personally think Intimidate is the best general choice for a pre-mega ability.

 

[Monte Cristo]

I'm a hipster so you already know

Shaymin @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 SpD
- Earth Power / Hidden Power [Fire]
- Seed Flare / Giga Drain / Grass Knot
- Synthesis
- Toxic / Protect

0 SpA Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 282-332 (87.3 - 102.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Shaymin: 202-238 (50 - 58.9%) -- 19.1% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 16 SpD Shaymin: 176-208 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal

Running Seed Flare means you can get the OHKO with some luck or spikes but Giga Drain is more health efficient and Grass Knot is a mix between from the two. Earth Power sp00ks Heatran however HP Fire roasts non FF/Mega Scizor. Toxic is an important stallwart tactic for mons you can't touch and Synthesis can be important at times for immediate healing. Protect over Toxic for obvious reasons.

My latias set (counter) is going to be in my rmt and I don't feel like writing it twice so I think someone else can take latias

 

[EV]

Um. Is it just me, or does that actually sound like a legit set o.o (Water absorb over storm drain through)

That was my first thought but I ended up going with the king.

 

[Ghoul King]

Running Seed Flare means you can get the OHKO with some luck or spikes but Giga Drain is more health efficient and Grass Knot is a mix between from the two.

... but Grass Knot is only 60 BP against Keldeo. That's weaker than Giga Drain.

 

[Monte Cristo]

... but Grass Knot is only 60 BP against Keldeo. That's weaker than Giga Drain.

I meant in general- your target isn't just keldeo

 

[Ghoul King]

I count up only 61 Pokemon that take a 100 or 120 BP neutral or better hit from Grass Knot (at 80 BP you're technically ahead of Giga Drain, but the leech effect will usually outweigh the benefits of a tiny bit more damage), of which 10 are not legal in AAA, and 8 beyond that will take more damage from Earth Power than STAB Grass Knot, leaving only 43 Pokemon where Grass Knot is liable to be both a noticeable improvement for the set over Giga Drain and also meaningful damage in the first place. A bunch of these are in turn crap like Lunatone, Solrock, Beartic, and Dewgong.

Pared down list

Mega Blastoise, Rampardos, Dusknoir, Claydol, Spiritomb, Donphan, Dewgong, Ursaring, Machamp, Cloyster, Wailord, Jellicent, Pangoro, Lickilicky, Cryogonal, Walrein, Kingdra, Solrock, Milotic, Lunatone, Regice, Suicune, Crustle, Tyranitar, Lapras, Mantine, Aurorus, Regirock, Gyarados, Hariyama, Glalie, Gigalith, Beartic, Terrakion, Rhyperior, Mamoswine, Golem, Hippowdon, Zygarde, Torterra, Golurk, Snorlax, and Avalugg.

The ones in this list that I've actually seen in AAA are Mamoswine, Zygarde (it's honestly not that good though), Snorlax, Terrakion, Gyarados, Tyranitar, and Suicune. There's a few others like Milotic where I wouldn't be surprised if someone came up with a set that was viable for it, but overall this is a limited pool of Pokemon where Grass Knot seems like a good improvement, and against Poison Heal Suicune I'd rather have Seed Flare for raw power and the potential to either scare them off with a SPD drop or rip them apart if they stay in after getting hit by one. For non-Poison Heal editions of several of these, like Snorlax and Regice, your listed set is probably better off just relying on Toxic (or switching) at which point Giga Drain can buy time with health drain.

I dunno, maybe I'm just missing a crucial breakpoint, one or two key Pokemon where it absolutely matters and it's important Shaymin can take them on, but it doesn't look like Grass Knot adds anything to the set to me, even before the fact that it's a damage drop against Keldeo.

 

[Adrian Marin]

Week 3 (Tier Shift):

Thanks a lot for providing good counters to Keldeo! Please feel free to post more Keldeo checks as we are lacking a few. PM me if you're wondering why your/an entry wasn't chosen. This week's victim is Sawk in Tier Shift!

Sawk @ Choice Band
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch
- Poison Jab


Sawk is an extremely common threat in the Tier Shift metagame. With a very high 140 base Attack stat, a powerful STAB move in Close Combat, decent bulk, and a good 100 base Speed, it's quite clear to see why Sawk is such a dominating force in the Tier Shift metagame.

PLEASE FOLLOW THE PROVIDED FORMAT AND MENTION WHETHER YOUR SET IS A CHECK OR A COUNTER IN YOUR SUBMISSIONS!

 

[Kit Kasai]

Reserving:

Weezing @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Sludge Bomb
- Pain Split
- Haze

Not really much to say here. Standard Weezing set. Takes barely anything from Sawk's attacks, and can proceed to burn it to shut it down. Sludge Bomb is a good STAB move with a chance to poison. Pain Split is the best recovery Weezing has, and Haze prevents opposing pokemon from setting up. Works well on a dedicated stall team with a wish passer.

 

[insanelegend]

I remember CB Sawk from my childhood: it was beating the crap out of Adrian Marin 's Tier Shift team. It most likely would have won me the game, but I can't be sure because we could not conclude the battle. The one of the things that can Counter it is physically defensive Cressilia.

Cressilia @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Levitate
Evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- Moonlight
- Psychic / Psyshock
- Thunder Wave
- Moonblast

252+ Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Sawk Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 222-262 (47.9 - 56.5%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Sawk Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 148-176 (31.9 - 38%) -- 93.9% chance to 3HKO

Alright, there is no way this thing can 2HKO even if it was Adamant. Rocky Helmet is to break Sawk's Sturdy, except this Sawk does not have Sturdy. Please explain why. The only thing Mold Breaker will be consistently useful is for Levitate users like Weezing and Gengar, but this set doesn't even carry Earthquake so why do you bother. Also, Sturdy makes a lot of things that would normally be checks lose to Sawk. Please change the ability to Sturdy or include Earthquake with Mold Breaker, as this thing should be as even and hard to counter as possible. Anyway, Cress can come in on any move, heal back up with Moonlight, and cripple with Thunder Wave or murder with its offensive moves. While Sawk can do over 50% with the first Knock Off, the following ones won't even do 40%. Cressilia is also a good counter as it can hit Sawk hard with its STAB and can counter other pokemon easily. It can also paralyze Sawk, making it crippled for the rest of the match.

 

[skies]

Arbok @ Black Sludge
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 172 HP / 64 Def / 252 SpD / 20 Spe
Careful Nature
- Coil
- Gunk Shot
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch
​

Arbok is a counter to Sawk under all circumstances because of its Poison typing coupled with Intimidate. This enables it to switch in effortlessly to any of its attacks with ease. 44 HP EVs are needed to avoid the 2HKO from Close Combat after Stealth Rock, but I'm running 172 which enables it to check Mega Heracross one time as well by living Earthquake after Stealth Rock, increasing its overall bulkiness and usefulness. 252 SpD + Calm is to make it very specially bulky because Coil is boosting Defense, so it's best to focus on Special Defense. 64 Def EVs are just kinda thrown in there but are pretty helpful to take on some hits before setting up. 20 Speed EVs is honestly just to Speed creep, I do it with pretty much every defensive Pokemon. Coil is really cool with Gunk Shot, the accuracy really comes in handy. Earthquake hits Steel-types while Sucker Punch is a great and powerful priority move. Definitely an underrated Pokemon that's actually really cool.

 

[Kit Kasai]

Arbok @ Black Sludge
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 172 HP / 64 Def / 252 SpD / 20 Spe
Careful Nature
- Coil
- Gunk Shot
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch
​

Arbok is a counter to Sawk under all circumstances because of its Poison typing coupled with Intimidate. This enables it to switch in effortlessly to any of its attacks with ease. 44 HP EVs are needed to avoid the 2HKO from Close Combat after Stealth Rock, but I'm running 172 which enables it to check Mega Heracross one time as well by living Earthquake after Stealth Rock, increasing its overall bulkiness and usefulness. 252 SpD + Calm is to make it very specially bulky because Coil is boosting Defense, so it's best to focus on Special Defense. 64 Def EVs are just kinda thrown in there but are pretty helpful to take on some hits before setting up. 20 Speed EVs is honestly just to Speed creep, I do it with pretty much every defensive Pokemon. Coil is really cool with Gunk Shot, the accuracy really comes in handy. Earthquake hits Steel-types while Sucker Punch is a great and powerful priority move. Definitely an underrated Pokemon that's actually really cool.

For speed creep I'd recommend 44 speed to catch neutral base 100s, 72 speed to catch jolly tyranitar before mevo (as well as more importantly catching 252 speed base 70s), or Jolly with no speed investment to catch neutral base 105, which are actually pretty common in Tier Shift, with all the UU pokes. You could also run jolly 64 speed to catch jolly tyranitar and adamant gyarados, but those aren't too common in TS. Up to you, but you've got a lot of extra evs to play around with, as you said the HP and Def evs are pretty flexible.

 

[asterat]

Spiritomb @ Leftovers
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Foul Play
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Spiritomb is NU, so he has disgustingly high stats. This set can wall most physical attackers in tier shift, barring a very select few. Many of tier shift's most notorious attackers use fighting and normal moves, so Spiritomb can really shine. It also walls the somewhat rare but very dangerous Sigilyph that sometimes surfaces in tier shift. This set is standard I guess, but mono attacking calm mind rest talk Spiritomb could also work. This set excels at spreading burns and using foul play to keep boosters in check. It's a nice way to beat a myriad of threats for certain teams, and can easily counter threats like Sawk.

252+ Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Sawk Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Spiritomb: 115-136 (34.4 - 40.7%) -- 58.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery


ALSO COUNTERS ZANGOOSE