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Victim of the Week v2, Kyurem

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Alexander., Apr 25, 2013.

  1. Alexander.

    Alexander. Banned deucer.

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,835
    The Victim of the Week

    Approved by Haunter and Harsha

    Credit to Neliel for the idea

    Hey everyone! I'm Alexander and I will be your new host for this thread. As you probably know Neliel already hosted a thread like this but for some reasons the thread died and since I liked a lot this project I asked two Staff users in the OU forum to host this and they approved, so here I am. I'm glad I can be useful for the OU forum and I hope to do a nice work.

    Anyways, I will decide a Pokemon every week and we will discuss about what Pokemon counters / checks it better. Don't post always the same Pokemon, the goal of this project is to find even underrated Pokemon which can counter hardly a specific dangerous threat so be creative! However, be sure to always make a description on your Pokemon in order to understand better because you have chosen that mon. The other goal of this project, maybe the most important is to help newer users to deal with a specific threat, so don't be rude if someone don't know how deal with Jirachi, for example. Remember we are here to help newer users too :).


    Enjoy this thread!






    Archived Victims of v1


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    Volcarona
    85 Hp / 60 Atk / 65 Def / 135 Satk / 105 Spd / 100 Spe
    Abilities: Flame body, Swarm​

    We all know why Volcarona is Ou; Quiver dance. This moth have the access to one of the best boosting move, being a special dragon dance with the bonus of the special defense. Volcarona seems perfect to use quiver dance, 100 base speed is not bad in this metagame, and 135 special atk its just awesome. Its stab are not bad either, fire and bug are good, but also the other coverage moves it has make make it even more threatening. The fact that under sun it has a 270 base power move with quiver dance, is enough to say how scary it can be. But if you want to use it under rain, you can do that too, since it also have the cool Hurricane to combine with bug buzz. If this want enough, in bw2 it got giga drain and roost, being able to bypass terrakion and keldeo easier, as well as being able to run defensive sets more efficently. You also have to face the fact that everytime you are using a dragon to counter it, it will have hidden power ice, and if you use Heatran it will have hp ground. So this is one of those counterless pokemon, but then why it isnt in every single team? the reason is its typing, that lets it take 50% from stealth rock. This is an huge let down for it, since stealth rock is almost in every team. Sometimes you dont even need to counter it, because the fact that there is sr up will garante you it wont sweep.​




    100 Hp / 100 Atk / 100 Def / 100 Satk / 100 Spd / 100 Spe​

    Ability: Serene Grace​

    The first pokemon we have to discuss is Jirachi. Jirachi is one of the most versatile pokemon in the OU metagame, being able to run a vast number of viable sets, like Calm Mind, Scarf, Defensive, and others. Its stats are very well balanced, and with its 100 / 100 / 100 defenses it can run defensive sets with success, also thanks to its great typing that gives it only two weaknesses and a lot of useful resistances. It also has some nice support moves like Wish, Healing Wish, Thunder Wave and Stealth Rock, that lets it shine even more. Offensively its not bad either, while 100 in every offensive stats seems bad, it can run Calm Mind sets to power up his special moves in order to attempt a sweep. He has no problem running a Scarf set, since it has one of the faster U-turn and along with the elemental punches and Iron Head it can hit a large portion of the metagame. Iron Head, in conjunction with Body Slam, is one of the most annoying move that you will ever face, since with its ability, serene grace, its flinching rate its very high. So, people, how do you deal with Jirachi? Is there any Pokemon able to beat every of its sets? If there aren't, which Pokemon can best combat all of its sets?​



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    Breloom

    60 Hp / 130 Atk / 80 Def / 60 Satk / 60 Spd / 70 Spe

    Abilities: Effect spore, Poison heal, Technichan​

    Breloom is one of those pokemon that even with bad stats overall, always shined since the beginning of Bw. Its poison heal's sets were already good, with sub focus punch being of the most threatening and annoying. Its immunity to status and Spore were one of the main reason of its success; like it wasnt enough breloom could also use Stun spore and leech seed to annoy the opponent even more. Then, bulk up breloom became one of the most common set, being able to sweep teams sometimes. Then, with bw2, breloom got one of the best ability it could ever get, technichan. This allow breloom to effectively use its priority mach punch and the boosted bullet seed to sweep teams with sword dance. Not everything is good about it by the way; its defensive stats makes it very fragile, since any supereffective move will almost kill it, its stab are not even the best, grass+fighting its walled by a lot of things, even though spore compensate its lack of coverage. So, what do you guys use to stop breloom?​


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    89 Hp / 145 Atk / 90 Def / 105 SpA / 80 Spd / 91 Spe​

    Ability: Intimidate​

    Landorus-t its a very dangerous pokemon if used correctly, thanks to its ability it can easily set up a rock polish or a sword dance depending or the situation. Its impressive attack lets it have one of the strongest earthquake in Ou, and thanks to move like Gravity or stone edge, even flying and levitate pokemon have to think twice before switching on it. While its speed its not stellar, its enough to outspeed the whole metagame after a rock polish, and enough to sweep a slow team with sword dance. Its weaknesses are common by the way, almost any water/ice attack will kill it. Other usefull moves are Explosion, that lets it do impressive damage in combination with normal gem, and u-turn that lets it continue the volturn strategy. Its special attack its not as bad as you may think, things like Starmie only has 100 base Spa and are really threatening, the problem with landorus-t is that its outclassed by its brother Landorus. So what do you use to stop Landorus-t?​



    60 Hp / 75 Atk / 85 Def / 100 Satk / 85 Spd / 115 Spe​

    Abilities: Natural cure, Analitic​

    Starmie is one of the few pokemon that was Ou in every generation since Rby; the reason of his success are not difficult to understand though. One of its strong point is its stellar speed, that lets it outspeed a large part of the metagame, often being outspeeded only by scarfed pokemon. Its special atk, while not excellent, its more than enough to open holes in the enemies teams, also thanks to its coverage that makes it very hard to counter. Hydro pump, Thunderbolt, Ice beam is an almost unresisted coverage, and for the few things that are supposed to check it starmie has some trick to beat them. It has to be noticed that in this generation starmie can be even more threatening than in the past, since almost nothing likes to take specs hydro pump under rain. Trick and psyshock deserves a mention, since they can be very usefull to get past some of his counters. Starmie is also known for his great rapid spin support, being one of the best spinners at the moment. Its typing its not stellar for a defensive pokemon, being very susceptile to the omnipresent Tyranitar, but its not that bad. Thats it, lets discuss of do you check starmie!​



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    80 Hp / 82 Atk / 83 Def / 100 Satk / 100 Spd / 80 Spe​

    Ability: Chlorophyll​

    Venusaur is one of the most threatening pokemon in this metagame, and for a good reason. While its stat may seem mediocre, with an 82 / 100 / 80 attacking stats, thanks to clorophill and growths this things became very annoying to face, providing there is sun up. Its stab are not the best offensively, poison and grass leave it open to a lot of things, but with differents hidden power it can cover anything. Since giga drain is legal with clorophill now, you cant even try to stall it with the life orb recoil. Venusaur has some trick to kill some of his counters, such as earthquake, and sleep powder that lets it have easier setup. It also has an annoying sub seed set which is difficult to deal with if you let it sub.​



    Archived Victims of v2

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    Kyurem
    125 Hp / 130 Atk / 90 Def / 130 Satk / 90 Spd / 95 Spe
    Ability: Pressure

    Kyurem isn't a bad mon in general, it has a good bulk and powerful STAB to hit hard opps, in BW2 it also gains Roost and Earth Power which are reeeally useful, Roost allows to recover some HP and it makes the SubRoost set p good, while Earth Power allows to hit Steel-types like Jirachi for a decent damage. It's weak to Stealth Rock and to priority moves but it's still a cool choice for many teams nowadays

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    Haxorus
    76 Hp / 147 Atk / 90 Def / 60 Satk / 70 Spd / 97 Spe
    Ability: Rivalry, Mold Breaker, Unnerve

    Haxorus isn't a bad Pokèmon in OU tier, despite its low statistics of speed and its poor bulk, it has the quality to make a lof of damages. It has a really high statistics of Attack, STAB Outrage and good coverage moves like EQ, Aqua Tail and Superpower. All these characteres, a good Wall breaker in general and a good support for other offensive mons, mainly other Dragon-types. So, what tatics and mons do you guys use to deal with this dragon?
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    Victini
    100 Hp / 100 Atk / 100 Def / 100 Satk / 100 Spd / 110 Spe
    Ability: Victory Star

    With good statistics overall and with the chance to kill some of its counter (for example Politoed can't switch into Bolt Strike) and with the strongest move in the game, V-Create, which with a Choice Band and if sun is up can easily 2HKO even bulky water type like Jellicent, Quagsire and Vaporeon, Victini is a threat for many teams. So what do you guys use to deal with it?

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    Heatran

    91 Hp / 90 Atk / 106 Def / 130 Satk / 106 Spd / 77
    Ability: Flash Fire, Flash Body

    Heatran was a boss in DPP and in BW it's still a really good pokèmon. He can run defensive set, set to clean teams once they're weakned (Flame Charge) and can even be a good trapper for Sun teams thanks to Magma Storm. It can also be a solid Stealth Rock setter and a good and underrated Choice Scarf users too. Finally, we should remember that it's probably the best Sun check in the metagame (even if they have always Dugtrio or a mon to bypass Heatran like Earthquake Venusaur and Latios and HP Ground Volcarona but it's still good imo). So what do you guys use to deal with it?​


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    Gengar

    60 Hp / 65 Atk / 60 Def / 130 Satk / 75 Spd / 110

    Ability: Levitate

    Gengar is probably the best spin-blocker for offensive teams and a good mon in general too. Substitute + Disable with Spikes up is really annoying and it can beat most of the spinner with its coverage moves as well (for example Thunder Gengar beats Tentacruel). It can also run a Choice Scarf set to not allow Starmie to spin the entry hazards away and to revenge-kill some threat like Dragonite, Salamence Breloom and so on. Finally, its primary move Shadow Ball and Focus Blast form a really good coverage which is not so easy to play against, especially with hazards up. So how do you guys deal with this ghost?​


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    Kyurem-B

    125 Hp / 170 Atk / 100 Def / 120 Satk / 90 Spd / 95 Spe
    Ability: Teravolt

    With a stellar base Attack of 170 Atk and a Outrage STAB Kyurem-B is one of most annoying mon to face in OU. Fortunately, though, it has a really small physical moverpool (just Outrage, Dragon Claw and Fusion Bolt) so it can't take advantage at 100% of its Choice Band set. However, it has still some interesting moves like Earth Power, Ice Beam and Hidden Power Fire which allows him to bypass its checks (for example Hidden Power Fire wrecks Ferrothorn and Scizor). What you guys use to stop Kyurem-B?



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    Reuniclus

    110 Hp / 65 Atk / 75 Def / 125 Satk / 85 Spd / 30 Spe
    Ability: Overcoat, Magic Guard, Regenerator​
    With a base statistic of 125 in SAtk and with Trick Room Reuniclus is an underrated threat right now, especially for the offensive teams which run Garchomp, Keldeo, Terrakion, Lati Twins and other fast mons. Reuniclus has a good coverage too since Psychic + Focus Blast + Shadow Ball hits hard the majority of the metagame. Also, it can run a Calm Mind which while it isn't as threating as the Trick Room variant for offensive teams, it's more threating for defensive teams. As last thing, Reuniclus has a great ability (Magic Guard) which allows to not take damage by entry hazards, status or weather which helps both Trick Room and Calm Mind set to live longer. So how do you guys deal with Reuniclus?​

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    Toxicroak
    83 Hp / 106 Atk / 65 Def / 86 Satk / 65 Spd / 85 Spe
    Ability: Anticipation, Dry Skin, Poison Touch

    Toxicroak is for sure an interesting mon to use right now, it can setup on lots of other mon (Keldeo, Ferrothorn, Tentacruel and Breloom for example) its Sword Dance / Bulk Up and then it isn't so easy to stop because of its not bad coverage (Fight + Dark + Ice is quite good, especially because the Dark-type move its a priority move). So, what you guys use to stop that frog which is actually an annoying threat for some Rain team?

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    Feraligatr
    85 Hp / 105 Atk / 100 Def / 79 Satk / 83 Spd / 79 Spe

    Ability: Torrent, Sheer Force​

    Despite it's lower tier, Feraligatr is a boss even in OU. It has Sword Dance, a good bulk and Aqua Jet which destroys everything that doesn't resist it if it's raining and Feraligatr are using its ability Torrent. Also, it has good coverage moves as well, Superpower destroys Ferrothorn, Crunch does the same to Jellicent and Earthquake allows to break some annoying Croacks. Unfortunately it can't obviously run all these moves together so it'll be walled by something. So guys, what do you use to deal with that crocodile?​

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    Thundurus-T

    79 Hp / 105 Atk / 70 Def / 145 Satk / 80 Spd / 101 Spe​

    Ability: Volt Absorb, Defiant​

    Even if Thundurus-T isn't as strong as Thundurus, it's still a threat for many teams. It has a base SAtk of 145, a good ability which allows to recover its HP when it switch into Electric-type moves and a not bad coverage. It can also run a Double Boost set which is probably the most threatening for Offensive teams, if you have problem vs stall then use it with a Nasty Plot set or a mixed with U-Turn and Superpower and you're good to go. The only issues is its not really good Base speed of 101, which means that mons like Garchomp, Keldeo and Terrakion can outspeed it without any problem but well, everything has its problems. So guys, what do you use to deal with this Electric tiger?​

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    Lucario

    70 Hp / 110 Atk / 70 Def / 115 Satk / 70 Spd / 90 Spe
    Ability: Steadfast, Inner Focus, Justified

    Lucario is one of the best sweeper in the game and for good reasons: it has a really high statistic of Attack, two priority moves and a powerful STAB fight. It has also lotd of chances to setup on mons locked into Stone Edge or Hidden Power Ice so use it with Dragonite or Salamence and you're ready to go. So, what you guys use to stop this blue wolf?

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    Garchomp

    103 Hp / 130 Atk / 95 Def / 80 Satk / 85 Spd / 102 Spe

    Ability: Sand Veil, Rough Skin

    Garchomp is for sure one of the biggest threat in OU, it has a big statistic of Attack a not bad statistic of Speed for the tier OU and has a good bulk as well which allows Garchomp to setup Sword Dance more easily. It's also one of the best Stealth Rock users available. So, how do you guys deal with this ground shark?​


    95 Hp / 125 Atk / 79 Def / 60 Satk / 100 Spd / 81 Spe​

    Ability: Intimidate, Moxie​

    Gyarados is definitely one of the biggest threat in the OU tier. It has a good statistic of Attack, a really good bulk and Dragon Dance to boost its already high Attack. Plus, it can setup on many mons which are common nowadays like Landorus-I, Scizor, Keldeo, Jirachi without Electric moves, Mamoswine and so on. Also, it can run a Defensive set if needed, with Rest and Sleep Talk which uses Gyarados' good statistics of defense. How do you guys use to deal with Gyarados?​


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    80 Hp / 90 Atk / 80 Def / 130 Satk / 110 Spd / 110 Spe
    Ability: Levitate​

    Massive SAtk, excellent Spe (which allows him to outspeed Keldeo and Terrakion and other threats in OU), a powerful STAB Dragon called Draco Meteor and a very good coverage are the best quality of Latios. But the quality of Latios doesn't end here, it can also run a Calm Mind set which is underrated and at the same time really good, it can be a good support for any offense team with Reflect, Light Screen and Memento and it can even bypass some of his counters and checks with some coverage moves, for example it can bypass Tyranitar and Heatran with Earthquake. So, how do you check Latios?​


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    Scizor

    70 Hp / 130 Atk / 100 Def / 55 Satk / 80 Spd / 65 Spe​

    Ability: Swarm, Technician, Light Metal​

    With the strongest U-Turn in the game and with its not bad statistics of defense, Scizor is one of the most common mon right now. It has a poor speed, but it's at the same time the mon which has the strongest Bullet Punch around. As i already said, Scizor has a powerful Bullet Punch which is really useful to revenge-kill stuff like Terrakion, weakened Lati Twins and Landorus and so on. It can also run a Sword Dance set, which with its coverage moves is pretty hard to deal with after a boost. So people, how do you deal with this steel beetle?​

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    Keldeo

    91 Hp / 72 Atk / 90 Def / 129 Satk / 90 Spd / 108 Spe​

    Ability: Justified​

    Without a single doubt, Keldeo is one of the most threatening mon right now. With its statistics of Spe and SAtk, with its STAB moves such as Hydro Pump, Surf and Secret Sword and with a item like Choice Scarf, Choice Specs and Life Orb, Keldeo can smash entire teams. Unfortunately, it hasn't a very big moverpool so it has many checks and counters, while it remains a big threat for every team. How do you deal with Keldeo?​


    91 Hp / 129 Atk / 90 Def / 72 Satk / 90 Spd /108 Spe​

    Ability: Justified​

    Terrakion is without any doubt one of the most threatening sweepers around. It has both good statistics of Atk and Spe (which allows Terrakion to outspeed all the 100 base Spe like Jirachi, Celebi and Salamence and even stuff like Landorus and Volcarona, it has a Spe tie with its friend Keldeo and it's slower only than Lati Twins) and it has two STAB moves who everyone fears. It's one of the best Choice Band users in the current metagame and one of the best revenge-killer too, if it runs a Choice Scarf. It can run also a Sword Dance or a double boost set, which is perfect to sweep team in late game. As last thing, we should remember that in BW2 Terrakion gets Stealth Rock and with its offensive statistics and it's STAB moves, it's one of the best Stealth Rock users avaible. So people, how you deal with this war machine?​

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    91 Hp / 134 Atk / 95 Def / 100 Satk / 100 Spd / 80 Spe​

    Ability: Inner Focus, Multiscale​

    Dragonite is perhaps the best Dragon Dance user thanks to Multiscale which allows Dragonite to tank a hit and to do a Dragon Dance. It can also run a Choice Band set to revenge-kill stuff with Extreme Speed and to hit harder with Outrage. Finally, it's a good Mixed Attacker too, especially under rain since it has some nice moves as Hurricane and Thunder which makes it even harder to handle. How do you deal with this cute dragon, which is at the same time very threatening?​

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    89 Hp / 125 Atk / 90 Def / 115 Satk / 80 Spd / 101 Spe​

    Ability: Sheer Force, Sand Force​

    Landorus-I is one of most threatening threat nowadays, it has a very high offensive statistics, a good speed statistic for the current metagame, an amazing Trait (Sheer Force, which allows to run a Life Orb without have an annoying recoil) and a fantastic boost move called Rock Polish which allows Landorus-I to outspeed the whole metagame even when he's running a Modest nature. Also, it has not very bad defensive statistics and an immunity to Ground which is useful to setup more easily, and it can bypass his most common counters and checks (Lati Twins and Celebi) with U-Turn. He's really terrible to deal with, so I'm asking you this question, how you usually deal with this machine of war?​
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
  2. Alexander.

    Alexander. Banned deucer.

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,835
    So, the next Victim is...​


    89 Hp / 125 Atk / 90 Def / 115 Satk / 80 Spd / 101 Spe
    Ability: Sheer Force, Sand Force​

    Landorus-I is one of most threatening threat nowadays, it has a very high offensive statistics, a good speed statistic for the current metagame, an amazing Trait (Sheer Force, which allows to run a Life Orb without have an annoying recoil) and a fantastic boost move called Rock Polish which allows Landorus-I to outspeed the whole metagame even when he's running a Modest nature. Also, it has not very bad defensive statistics and an immunity to Ground which is useful to setup more easily, and it can bypass his most common counters and checks (Lati Twins and Celebi) with U-Turn. He's really terrible to deal with, so I'm asking you this question, how you usually deal with this machine of war? How Pokemon or tatics you use to beat this monster?​
  3. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Come on, she's not burned; she's just gone.
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    1,501
    Quick nitpick, Landorus-I has base 125 attack...
  4. Cosmic Fury

    Cosmic Fury

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2011
    Messages:
    39
    Porygon2 @ Eviolite
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Discharge
    - Ice Beam
    - Tri Attack
    - Recover


    Alright, so among the very best counters to stuff like this is the Great Wall of Porygon2. However, this is one of my favorite sets, as it comes with a twist.

    I've always loved tanks that can take a hit as well as they can dish out one, and this particular Pokémon is no joke on that front. With the useful ability of Download, his special attack suddenly jumps from a very nice 339 to a monstrous 508, allowing him to sweep like a boss.

    Eviolite naturally gives his defense a massive boost, so while he's tanking, he's dishing out the pain in the form of some decent Bolt-Beam coverage, along with Tri Attack for those few mons that resist that combo, or simply when more power is needed for a KO.

    Recover is there to heal off any damage done to him my both Lando and other members of the opposing team, should Landorus decide to U-Turn on me instead of going for Earthquake/Earth Power.

    With this in mind, he's the perfect counter for this giant. One Ice Beam, be it boosted by Download or not, is enough to OHKO this legend, and it will bring him down in an instant should he switch in.
  5. Hitmonleet

    Hitmonleet

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2013
    Messages:
    24
    I'm not going to post a set, but I think Cloyster might be viable. Here are some calcs:
    0 ATK Cloyster Icicle crash vs 252 def landorus= 94 - 110% damage

    Will add more calcs later.
  6. Tassa

    Tassa

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2013
    Messages:
    82
    Modest Landorus Focus Blast on your Porygon2 (accounting Eviolite) : 82-97%.
    Need to be full life to just check, doesn't counter since Earth Power + Focus Blast KO P2.

    Cloyster is easily KOed by either Earth Power and Focus Blast, not better.
  7. Cosmic Fury

    Cosmic Fury

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2011
    Messages:
    39
    A strong Ice Shard from a banded Mamoswine might do the trick, but given Lando's bulk, it's going to be pretty hard, especially if it's a mixed/special set.

    However, if there aren't any hazards on the field and Mamo has the usual sash, it will be able to kill it before it can do the rest of the team any harm, provided it doesn't switch out.
  8. Jayde

    Jayde ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Messages:
    536
    Attack should be 125, Defense should be 90, HP should be 89
  9. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
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    2,959
    specially defensive zapdos and lots of priority are the only real answers to sheer force landorus that don't flounder against the rest of ou. if i'm running a stall-oriented team, it's going to have zapdos (or chansey/blissey but those kinda suck now) and if i'm running offense i'm going to have at least two different methods of priority plus latios / latias / something else that isn't ohko'd by lando after rocks. it's one of the hardest and the easiest threats to check at the same time, in that it's not threatening at all for some teams and for others it's absolutely devastating. just gotta build the right team really, but of course then by checking landorus you open yourself up to new threats because of teambuilding tradeoffs blah blah blah
  10. The Unlucky one

    The Unlucky one

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2012
    Messages:
    979
    Good Job Alexander for bringing this back up. As the current person leading VOTW in LC, I just wanna say that your v1 victims should probably have some sorta compendium on what mons beat it out and in what scenarios, similarly to my LC thread (Delver's sorta). Anyway onto Lando-I. Landorus-I needs some rather specific counters to deal with all of its sets so I'll just try to take RP and U-Turn as two seperate sets. I'm also pretty much going to consider Landorus-I as Lando-I+TTar combo as that's pretty much the main time where you see it (With me being a sorta gimmicky OU Player, I do have other means for team support with Lando-I lol)

    RP Landorus: Rock Polish Landorus is the hardest one to check. However, it is a lot easier to wall RP Landorus as the Landorus user loses momentum when you send in a good check to him. We know the standard stuff, Celebi and Lati@s do really well checking RP Landorus along with the universal checks/counters that I will mention. This thing is really hard to check but there are still some ways of doing so. Mamoswine and Azumarill are the main things i'm talking about here. Using priority to smash through Landorus. You still need to take note that Azumarill either needs Rain or prior damage on Landorus to OHKO it with Aqua Jet. Even some obscure guys can deal with RP Landorus such as Meloetta with its high SpD.

    U-Turn Landorus:This one is the hardest to switch into but the easiest to check. Every time you switch in something you fear the prospect of a U-Turn into a Pursuit trapping partner such as CBTar, or something that gets a free switch to wreck havoc on you such as Heracross. Of course with all the difficulty in switching into it. There are a few Pokemon that can switch in without fearing a U-Turn into Pursuit TOO much. I'll include those examples in my "universal checks" list. You can also check it really easily. Any thing that has a scarf and has a means of hitting Lando-I hard (Scarf Jirachi Ice Punch, Keldeo) can make good work of Landorus-I. Heck, even Thundy-T can use HP Ice without even having to be scarfed given the speed tie doesn't screw him over.

    Summary of checks:

    Cresselia: Takes the least damage from any of Lando-I's attacks. Takes nothing from pretty much everything he can throw at you and can retaliate with Ice Beam or Toxic Stall it. Cresselia tends to be paired with Dugtrio, which really helps out against Tyranitar. U-Turn into Tar isn't also that safe as killing off cress means Dugtrio gets a free switch in and Sun wins the weather war. There even is a cost for abusing its weakness, which is a huge boost to Cresselia's viability as a Sun Landorus Check.

    Gyarados: I love this Pokemon. Gyarados is probably the only thing that can use Landorus-I as setup fodder for a sweep. It also doesn't get slaughtered by the rest of the metagame as Gyarados is definitely one of the best Pokemon to have in the game right now just because of its amazing anti-metagame offensive presence. It also doesn't really fear Tyranitar too much as it isn't going to get Pursuit Trapped and can smashed by a +1 Waterfall.

    Moltres: Moltres works with SR off the field (kinda obvious) and uses Landorus as either setup fodder for the Agility set or as a free chance to fire off a massively powerful Hurricane. It can also U-Turn on the Tyranitar switchin or just eliminate it with an HP Fighting. Although rather obscure, Moltres definitely works against Landorus.

    Zapdos: As Lavos Spawn said, SpD Zapdos is so good against Landorus-I that it is pretty much a staple on stall teams just for dealing with it and a few other threats (Scizor and Breloom comes into mind) It also doesn't fear Tyranitar's Pursuit so that's a huge plus for it as it can switch out rather safely (Pursuit Trap+SR damage does stack up damage on it).

    Celebi/Lati@s: They pretty much perform the same way when it comes to Landorus-I. Probably the easiest Lando-I check to fit into a team just because they are really good in the current metagame. They do suffer some problems when it comes to checking Landorus-I. First of all you need to take into consideration U-Turn. U-Turn will dent Celebi and Lati@s quite a bit and Tyranitar can wreck you. Of course, Celebi and Lati@s do have ways of getting around it (BP Celebi, GK Lati@s) but a lot of Landorus' team support is based around getting rid of those threats so you will have a hard time.

    Charizard: Charizard is easily the best Pokemon in the game and can massively dent Landorus-I with a Sun boosted Solar Power boosted Blast Burn. Easily the main reason why Lando-I has less usage than Gliscor right now -- idiots.

    Virizion, Shaymin: These along with Gyarados are the best offensive answers to the LandoTar core. CM Virizion can Calm Mind on a Focus Blast (does more damage than HP Ice) and can nail it with HP Ice. Focus Blast also has the chance of missing as well, while Virizion also naturally outspeeds Landorus-I, so Virizion works well against it. Shaymin is on a similar boat but instead of being able to setup, it can nail nearly every switch in rather hard with an appropriate coverage move/A friggin powerful Seed Flare. It also has Rest+Natural Cure to keep itself healthy throughout the match.

    Mamoswine and Azumarill: Rather self explanatory, checks not counters. Can nail Mamoswine with a Ice Shard/Aqua Jet.

    Focus Miss: Pretty much everything Landorus-I needs to use Focus Blast to kill is a risk in itself thanks to Focus Blast's terrible accuracy making guys like Skarmory, Bronzong, or Rotom-W more viable answers to Landorus-I

    Alright so I think that covers nearly everything in dealing with Landorus-I. Easily the most threatening Pokemon atm. Hope this can contribute well to people around here. A lot of Pokemon that deal with Landorus are either great anti-meta mons or niche picks; which can increase creativity among players.
  11. Lord of Bays

    Lord of Bays

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    Obviously, Mamoswine. He can't switch in on anything but HP Ice (fuck yeah Thick Fat), but the calc speaks for itself.

    252+ Atk Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 316-376 (99.05 - 117.86%) -- 93.75% chance to OHKO. Jolly LO OHKOs, as does any Adamant set that uses a boosting item, and Stealth Rock being up means that Landorus cannot sweep, period, until Mamoswine is KOd.
  12. DarkBlazeR

    DarkBlazeR

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    Focus Sash Alakazam with Hidden Power [Ice] is a decent option to revenge kill Landorus after a Rock Polish. It obviously can't switch in at all and hence requires you to either predict well or sacrifice something first to get it in, but at least it means you don't outright lose to it. It's at least decent option for HO teams that don't want to utilise more defensive 'mons, i.e. Celebi, Latias etc. Gengar is also a decent check as it is immune to Earth Power/Focus Blast and is only 2HKOd by Hidden Power [Ice]. CB Scizor's Bullet Punch can take out a weakened Landorus, dealing a reasonable chunk of damage (52% - 61% to 68/0). If you keep Stealth Rock off the field, Keldeo can revenge kill it in a pinch, as Modest Earth Power does 99% maximum.

    There's also a few other specially defensive checks that haven't been mentioned yet - specifically Jellicent and Chansey, both of which can avoid a 2HKO from any of Landorus' moves. They are quite shaky checks though, as they both risk being 2HKOd by the appropriate move after taking some hazard damage.
  13. D i a b l o

    D i a b l o Guest

    The best pokémon that can enter well on SheerForce Landorus-I is Mantine, in fact it resists at all his coverage and it may respond with its STAB-water, but this metagame isn't for it even though it is also a very good check of Keldeo.

    But it isn't Mantine that I will talk about now, I think that a good pokémon that can attack (and pseudoresist) the victim is Gengar; in fact, it is able to enter very good on Earth Power or Focus Blast, and it can respond with Shadow Ball, or, in the case of Hidden Power Ice (I remember is 3hko to LeftieGar) use the famous strategy "Substitute + Disable", so as to also check Psychic.
  14. Alexander.

    Alexander. Banned deucer.

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    Thanks both. Fixed ! Yesterday I was in a hurry so I wrote so quickly and I didn't change Venusaur's statistics with Landorus' ones.
  15. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
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    Gyarados really shines at the job, since it also checks Keldeo perfectly (unless you're running weird HP Electric versions, which are actually easy to spot anyway), and can be used in combination with Celebi to completely neuter the duo. The main con of Gyarados is the Rock weakness, which forces you to run a spinner, but in my experience it's entirely worth it these days. Especially since you're not relying on a passive mon to check those powerhouses, but on something that can produce a sweep itself with little support actually (I'm running it in a weatherless team, and while the extra power from Drizzle is welcome, it's not essential for Gyarados to work well at all).

    Also, interesting enough, even if your opponent manages to outsmart you and lure your Gyarados into a Choice Scarf Landorus and hit you with Stone Edge, there's still a good chance it will fail to 2HKO if SR are not onto the ground:

    -1 252 Atk Landorus Stone Edge vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 172-204 (49.85 - 59.13%) -- 74.22% chance to 2HKO

    Considering that the odds for two Stone Edges to both hit is like 50%, you will survive the situation more often than not, AND you will have a crippled Lando locked into a non-STAB, inaccurate move, so you have billions of ways to take advantage of that even without staying in to take the second Stone Edge.
  16. Alexander.

    Alexander. Banned deucer.

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    I agree with Specially Defensive Zapdos is one of the best way to deal with Landorus-I, which at the same time isn't pointless against the rest of the metagame. Even Gyarados, as ganj4lF already said, looks interesting in my eyes. It has like Zapdos an offensive presence (something which things like Cresselia and Mantine haven't) and it's just a beast if it does a Dragon Dance. It hasn't many counter in the current metagame (just Rotom-W and Ferrothorn) and it has few revenge-killer too (Choice Scarf Terrakion is the most common I guess) so yeah, Gyarados can definitely work really fine, it's a nice check for Landorus-I, one of the biggest threat right now, and a useful Pokemon at the same time.
  17. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
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    Weavile

    Weavile is a pretty cool poke that can work in this metagame. Being able to Pursuit trap the Lati twins, Starmie, and Celebi much more easily than Tyranitar (unless you're running choice scarf Tyranitar), since Weavile out speeds them all and can just go for Night Slash or Ice Shard / Punch. Weavile is also a pretty cool check to Lando-I, as it ignores it's +2 boost with Ice Shard, and naturally out speeds it without a boost. However, it can't switch in on anything other than HP Ice, so I recommend switching Weavile after Lando-I has KOed something.

    The reason why it isn't common in this metagame.

    Let's start with the SR weakness, and it's horrible defensive typing. Ice / Dark is weak to so many common (priorty) attacks. Breloom and Scizor are on nearly every team, so it's easily checked. It's also countered by Keldeo, which is commonly paired up with Lando-I. Almost any Netural STAB attack will 2HKO it. However, if you can get pass these draw backs and offer some support for Weavile (Spinner, carrying checks to Breloom and Scizor), then you should experiment with Weavile in this Metagame.
  18. vyomov

    vyomov

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    Thundurus-T is also an excellent counter: it gets a free switch in on Earthquake and can HP Ice to OHKO.
    It isn't easy to wall either with 145 Base SpA and a huge movepool. Thundurus-T can set up with Nasty Plot and can proceed to OHKO any pokemon not named Blissey or Chansey in OU
  19. Alexander.

    Alexander. Banned deucer.

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    I'd call it check, not counter. Thundurus-T can switch into only a Earth Power / Earthquake since Hidden Power Ice and Stone Edge smashes it and since even Focus Blast hits Thundurus-T for a good damage, especially if Stealth Rock is up. Also, it can't naturally switch into a Rock Polish since Hidden Power'll smash it later. Thundurus-T isn't a counter of Landorus in my opinion, it's just a mediocre check.
  20. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    Specially defensive Rotom-W is not something I tend to use now that Tornadus-T is gone, but it's a pretty good check, only losing if Landorus Focus Blasts on the switch and hits twice. It'll also perform solidly against physical versions unless they have Gravity.
  21. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Come on, she's not burned; she's just gone.
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    Has anyone actually used the Gravity set in this meta? I haven used it since late BW1, but I found that Landorus almost always wants extra speed in the form of either Rock Polish or a Choice Scarf, since many things like Starmie, Keldeo, ScarfToed, etc., can out-speed it and KO. If the Gravity set does work, what are the best teammates/support in general for it?
  22. PsychoGamer23

    PsychoGamer23

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    Mamoswine with ice shard would seem to me to be the best R.P. Landorus counter, as well as specially defensive walls like Blissey and Chansey.

    With that said R.P. Sheer Force Landorus absolutely wrecks after a set up and removal of any counters.
  23. Tassa

    Tassa

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    Mamoswine is a check, and a really good one thanks to Ice Shard, but not a counter since he's OHKOed by Earth Power/Focus Blast.

    Offensively speaking, Keldeo is a pretty good answer since he cannot be OHKOed if healthy (though you should not take the risk of sending him if you have the choice, this point is mostly for RKing the RP) and OHKO easily in return.

    A general good way to deal with Lando is, as for many other threat, to play around by smart play and, if it fits into your team, by multiple-check. For example, if you have a Rotom-W, which take nothing from all attacks bar Focus Blast, and Gengar which take nothing from all attacks bar HP Ice, even if you don't carry a counter, Lando's player will have a hard time to choose the right attack.
  24. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
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    How about this guy:

    [​IMG]
    Bronzong @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Gyro Ball
    - Earthquake
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Specially Defensive Bronzong does a decent job of countering Landorus-I, although it does sting if you get hit on the switch in with Focus Blast. The key is to have another Specially Defensive Pokemon, in my case Amoonguss, that can take a powerful Focus Blast and lure the EP or HP Ice. Bronzong gets in for free on both Earth Power and HP Ice. Ussually when the Landorus-I user gives that switch in Bronzong, they are not inclined in to stay in because of Focus Blast's chance to miss. What I like about Bronzong as a counter to Landorus-I is that he is neither Pursuit weak nor weak to hazards. The Landorus-I user is going to have to spam Focus Blast with its irritating missing chance to nail down Bronzong.
  25. dcae

    dcae naughty list

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    I'd have to disagree with your final statement. It is powerful yes, but there are actually many mons that can take an attack and KO back, such as Politoed, some bulkier Flying types, etc. Since it 2HKoS the majority of the meta, it can be stopped by the various mons that can take a hit and OHKO back. Obviously this generally means giving up a poke, but in exchange Lando is killed. It is a great late game sweeper, but it is relatively east to play around in my experience. Definitely a threat to consider while teambuilding, but the removal of Lando's counters doesn't not equal sweep. Correct me if that wasn't what you meant.

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