Victim of the Week v2, Kyurem

[Tressed]

Can't believe no Mamoswine have been brought up yet. I'm disappointed.

Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Adamant Nature
252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP

Ice Shard
Icicle Crash / Icicle Spear
Earthquake
Superpower

Mamoswine can handle almost any Garchomp variant out there, barring Yache Chomps. Ice Shard is a flat out OHKO on a 4 / 0 Garchomp. Meanwhile, Yache variants aren't entirely safe, as Icicle Crash actually OHKOs through Yache Berry, and Icicle Spear has a good chance of doing the same.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

252 HP/ 168 Def/ 88 SpDef Sassy @ Leftovers
Gyro Ball
Stealth Rock
Hidden Power Ice
Earthquake
Garchomp has no true counters bar cresselia but bronzong definitely comes close. Hidden power ice is an easy 2hko while garchomp fire blast cant 2hko even with life orb. A choice band fire fang is the only way for garchomp to 2hko bronzong but even then its not guaranted.

 

[Prinz]

ok since smogon got hacked etcetera you guys have 2 more days to post more things about garchomp. thank for your time!

 

[Drako]

Metagross @ Air Balloon
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Def / 240 HP / 16 Atk
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake
- Bullet Punch

252 +2 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Outrage vs 240 HP/252 Def Metagross (+Def) : 42,11% - 49,58% (3 hits to KO)

252 +2 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Aqua Tail in rain vs 240 HP/252 Def Metagross (+Def) : 63,43% - 74,79% (2 hits to KO)

Gimmicky as hell but it would work I guess. Air baloon forces Chomp to Outrage and Ice Punch knocks it out after Life orb. Watch out for yache though but tbh, it's not as strong with yache anyway.

 

[Prinz]

cool set, drako. metagross is really underrated nowadays but with air ballon as its item it can check garchomp pretty well, especially if it runs ice punch. yache berry isn't as common as thing like focus sash, choice band, choice scarf and life orb as i can see on the ladder so it shouldn't be a big deal. i would only tell you to try meteor smash somewhere on your metagross, perhaps instead of earthquake. imo it's a move too good to not use it. nice set again anyways.

edit: ok i'll lock the discuss about garchomp in about 12 hours so if you guys want to post something do it as soon as possible, thanks.

 

[vyomov]

Well not a counter, but Weavile checks Garchomp easily:
Weavile@Life Orb
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
Jolly Nature
Ability: Pressure
- Ice Punch
- Night Slash
- Brick Break
- Ice Shard
This allows Weavile to easily outspeed and revenge kill ALL sets of Garchomp:
252+ Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Yache Berry Garchomp: 346-408 (96.64 - 113.96%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 691-816 (193.01 - 227.93%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And so on and so forth.
The next mon is a definitive counter to Garchomp: Cresselia
Cresselia can easily tank anything Garchomp has: even banded Outrage has only 33.2% chance to 2HKO the Uber Wall set
In return, Cresselia 2HKOes with Ice Beam (except Yache Chomp which is 3HKOed).
Cresselia can also heal off the damage with Moonlight or can set up Reflect and then sweep.
Cresselia@Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD
Nature: Bold
Ability: Levitate
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Moonlight
- Calm Mind/Reflect/support move of choice

 

[Prinz]

So, the next victim is...​

Lucario​

70 Hp / 110 Atk / 70 Def / 115 Satk / 70 Spd / 90 Spe​

Ability: Steadfast, Inner Focus, Justified​

​

Lucario is one of the best sweeper in the game and for good reasons: it has a really high statistic of Attack, two priority moves and a powerful STAB fight. It has also lotd of chances to setup on mons locked into Stone Edge or Hidden Power Ice so use it with Dragonite or Salamence and you're ready to go. So, what you guys use to stop this blue wolf?​

ps: can a mod change the title of the thread into "victim of the week v2, lucario?" thank in advance.

 

[Woodchuck]

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD Impish
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Whirlwind
- Slack Off

Counters all physical Lucario variants, and who cares about NP because it's garbage. (It can take a boosted Nasty Plot too.) Hippowdon is also, unlike Jellicent, not vulnerable to Pursuit trapping from the increasingly popular Tyranitar. There are some other excellent checks dependent on what coverage Lucario runs (Gengar, Jellicent, and Landorus-T) but none of them can safely come in regardless of Luke's coverage.

 

[Halcyon.]

I don't know...with a little bit of prior damage (or SR+1 layer of Spikes), Lucario's CLose Combat is a OHKO at +2. I don't think that's asking for too much either since Lucario loves having Spikes support and is also a late-game sweeper, meaning many walls will be worn down, even slightly, by the time Lucario makes an attempt to sweep. In my experience, beating Lucario depends on which set it's running. I also think Crunch is probably the least used move, since Ice Punch and Bullet Punch deal with it's more common counters/checks. I think Slowbro, TR Reuniclus, Zam with Sash still up, and Jellicent are probably your best bets for beating Lucario. Another thing to consider when facing Lucario is to simply preventing him from getting an opportunity to set up by maintaining momentum and offensive / defensive pressure. Using U-turn and Volt Switch is obviously a great way to do this, as well as predicting with Landorus-T to scout for the Ice Punch.

 

[Drako]

Chandelure @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 64 Def / 236 Spd / 208 HP
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

This thing beats every Lucario barring the jolly ones with Crunch (and even those have to be at +2 most of the time because they only have a 25% chance to OHKO after rocks). Jolly Dark pulse unfortunately does 73,16% - 86,26% (81,25% chance to OHKO after rocks) which is a bit of a bummer but who runs special Luke anyway.
Spread: Enough speed to outspeed adamant luke by 1 point, bit of defense investment to take physical hits better and the rest in HP because chandy doesn't have much of it.
Btw: 0 SpAtk Chandelure Flamethrower vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Lucario: 134,52% - 158,72% (Guaranteed OHKO)

 

[Cascade]

im really not sure how you've formatted everything OP, garchomp is just the latest pokemon of a number?

anyway, i really like to use cloyster

Focus sash

Icicle spear
Shell Smash
Rock blast,
Razor shell

Garchomp doesnt have any multihit attacks as far as i know, 1st move shell smash for boost, then icicle spear and possibly clear their team (unless the sub in steel type for good resist XD)

 

[Prinz]

im really not sure how you've formatted everything OP, garchomp is just the latest pokemon of a number?

anyway, i really like to use cloyster

Focus sash

Icicle spear
Shell Smash
Rock blast,
Razor shell

Garchomp doesnt have any multihit attacks as far as i know, 1st move shell smash for boost, then icicle spear and possibly clear their team (unless the sub in steel type for good resist XD)

The current victim of the week is Lucario, not Garchomp. Seems that I can't change the op to "victim of the week v2, Lucario" and Garchomp was just the victim before Lucario. I'm sorry bout this.

Anyways, I'll close the discuss about Garchomp in 15 hours so if you have something to post do it as soon as possible thx

 

[Prosecutor Godot]

Tentacruel is a great answer to Lucario. It only takes roughly 30% from Life Orb boosted Close Combats, which is nothing to Tentacruel in the rain considering Black Sludge and Rain Dish recovery. From there it can spin hazards away, set up Toxic Spikes or wear Lucario away with Scalds.

 

[Goutland]

Volcarona @ Leftovers
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Spd / 252 Def
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Fiery Dance
- Roost / Giga Drain / Hidden Power Ground

This is one of the best offensive checks to Lucario as long as you keep rocks off the field. Volcarona resists both of Lucario's stabs and takes pitiful damage from an unboosted extremespeed (30.73% - 36.39% from life orb adamant Luke), so you can switch in and threaten to OHKO even with no investment. The only thing you have to worry about is a +2 crit extremespeed, or a random stone edge (which is never seen on Lucario anyway).

 

[Zaos]

Obviously, this:

(Gyarados) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 88 HP / 248 Atk / 4 Def / 168 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake

-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 100-119 (28.32 - 33.71%) -- possible 4HKO
248 Atk Gyarados Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 284-336 (100.7 - 119.14%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Even a set witch Thunderpunch (rarelly seen) , -1 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario ThunderPunch vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 338-400 (95.75 - 113.31%) -- 75% chance to OHKO with an OHKO EQ in coming for Lucario

The only problem of this is the SR, so it's recommended keep a spinner in the team

 

[Prinz]

So, the next victim is...​

Thundurus-T​

​

79 Hp / 105 Atk / 70 Def / 145 Satk / 80 Spd / 101 Spe​

Ability: Volt Absorb, Defiant​

​

Even if Thundurus-T isn't as strong as Thundurus, it's still a threat for many teams. It has a base SAtk of 145, a good ability which allows to recover its HP when it switch into Electric-type moves and a not bad coverage. It can also run a Double Boost set which is probably the most threatening for Offensive teams, if you have problem vs stall then use it with a Nasty Plot set or a mixed with U-Turn and Superpower and you're good to go. The only issues is its not really good Base speed of 101, which means that mons like Garchomp, Keldeo and Terrakion can outspeed it without any problem but well, everything has its problems. So guys, what do you use to deal with this Electric tiger?​

​

edit: once again, if you a mod could edit the title of this thread into "victim of the week v2, thundurus-t" it would be great. thank for your time.​

 

[ShootingStarmie]

Latias @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spa / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Surf / HP fire
- Roost

Latas can switch into any of Thundurus-T's attacks and proceed to force it out or KO it (assuming SR is up). HP ice from a non boosted Thumdurus-T isn't doing much, and Thunder(bolt) is doing even less. Nasty Plot isn't going to give Thundurus-T a chance to hit Latias, and Agility isn't going to be hitting hard at all, while be KOd next turn or forced to switch out.

Draco Meteor is STAB which is hitting everything bar Tyranitar, Steel types, or the pink blobs hard. Psyshock is again STAB, and offers utility in taking out Fighting types like Keldeo and Breloom. Surf gets overall really nice coverage, while HP fire is to nail Steel type switch ins like Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Jirachi. Roost is to keep Latias healthy, and allows it to stay around for the majority of the match

 

[ShadowMarioGalaxy64]

Rotom-H @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP/8 Def/252 Sp. Def
Calm Nature
- Volt Switch
- Overheat
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

Rotom-H is a relatively safe check to Thundurus-T in my opinion. Rotom-H can switch into anything and the most it takes is 32.01 - 37.95% from Focus Blast, a 1.03% chance of a 3HKO--on top of the fact that Thundurus-T has to hit three or four Focus Blasts consecutively, a difficult feat with a move with shaky accuracy.

Anyways, a Specially Defensive Rotom-H can switch in on a Focus Blast and survive with some health to spare. What happens next is, since it will go later, use Pain Split to split the health down and finish Thundurus-T with Overheat. I can see some problems with Thundurus-T's Nasty Plot set, as a doubled Focus Blast will hit hard. If the Thundurus-T in question lacks Focus Blast, Rotom-H simple rolls around and laughs at the Bolt Strike Pokemon.

Some other Pokemon work similarly. I expect to see somebody place Cresselia on here somewhere, as well as Blissey/Chansey in there, but all Pokemon face a striking fear: Nasty Plot. It's kind of hard to say what will hit it, but the most common set I've been seeing are Agility sets, as otherwise, Thundurus-T is easily Revenge Killed by Choice Scarf Pokemon like Terrakion.

That's just me though--can't wait to see other people's suggestions ^_^

 

[Prinz]

It's the time to add something myself. Well, there is few mons which can switch into Thundurus-T (just Quagsire, Gastrodon and Specially Defensive and Hippowdon if it hasn't Grass Knot, Chansey and Blissey if it hasn't Nasty Plot or Superpower and also Chople Berry Tyranitar even if it isn't so common nowadays can do not a bad job but Focus Blast still hurts a lot, 2OHKOing Tyranitar even with Chople Berry and OHKOing it with a +2 Focus Blast always with Chople Berry so Tyranitar can stop Thundurus-T only if has Chople Berry and Focus Blast misses, not impossible but still a 30% or a ~48% if Focus Sash have to hit two times in a row) but Thundurus-T hasn't a lot of chances to setup and it isn't really fast for the current OU metagame where Lati Twins, Terrakion and Keldeo which are everywhere are all faster than him so it isn't too difficult to deal with, at least for Offensive teams. For the Defensive ones, otherwise it isn't much more threatening, it has a stellar SAtk of 145 and a good coverage so if it does a Nasty Plot it's a big problem to deal with and you can only revenge kill it with one of your choice scarf users / your choice scarf users (i advice to not use a defensive team / stall team / whatever it's without a revenge-killer or a lots of threat will sweep you easily). It has also in its moverpool U-Turn, Superpower and Grass Knot which are really annoying for the most common defensive mons (just think at hippowdon, celebi, heatran, gastrodon and blissey) so yeah, it's a big threat for Defensive teams and normally not a problem for Offensive teams (of course if he does an Agility against an Offensive teams it can sweep it but fortunately as i already said it hasn't so many chances to setup). Anyways, i'll close the discuss about Thundurus in 2 days, post more ideas ppl!

Ah, forgot to say that Lati Twins are good checks for Thundurus-T. They outspeed it and resist to both Thunderbolt / Thunder and Focus Blast and destroy the Electric Genie with Draco Meteor, just pay attention to Hidden Power Ice which hits hard.

 

[ShootingStarmie]

There isn't much else to say after that post, you basically summed up Thundurus-T in this metagame. I feel it has got a few chances of setting on offensive teams (on Breloom after sleep Clause, Scizor's Bullet Punch, Keldeo's Secret Sword, etc), but even after Agility, offensive teams with priority are still revenge killing it (Mamoswine's Ice Shard, Dragonite's Extreme Speed, Azumarill's Aqua Jet etc), so yeah, like you said it really isn't that threatening to offensive teams.

 

[Prinz]

ok so i'll post another discuss in about 9 hours.

 

[Prinz]

So, the next victim is...

Feraligatr​

85 Hp / 105 Atk / 100 Def / 79 Satk / 83 Spd / 79 Spe​

​

Ability: Torrent, Sheer Force​

Despite it's lower tier, Feraligatr is a boss even in OU. It has Sword Dance, a good bulk and Aqua Jet which destroys everything that doesn't resist it if it's raining and Feraligatr are using its ability Torrent. Also, it has good coverage moves as well, Superpower destroys Ferrothorn, Crunch does the same to Jellicent and Earthquake allows to break some annoying Croacks. Unfortunately it can't obviously run all these moves together so it'll be walled by something. So guys, what do you use to deal with that crocodile?​

 

[Soul Fly]

Okay, resident Feraligatr (over)user fanboy here. So before anyone posts sets to counter it, I'd rather get this clear. Considering it's the standard Mystic water set, if it's raining and it has grabbed a boost being whittled down to Torrent range, it'll just aqua jet past anything you throw at it. It's that brutal. It doesn't even need waterfall 9 times out of 10 in such a scenario and can OHKO anything that survives rainspam with Crunch+Superpower.

That being said, I'll not post any 'usual' counter as they all (almost) without exception fall to appropriate coverage or rain+torrent+mystic water boosted Spam + Coverage.

So, who can absolutely make life miserable for this rain monster at his home turf (drizzle) in the worst case scenario (boosted+torrent)?

Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you.

RainTankNite (Dragonite) @ Leftovers
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Hurricane
- Thunder
- Substitute
- Dragon Tail

It's simple

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Torrent Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 126-148 (32.64 - 38.34%) -- 2.05% chance to 3HKO

That's not even a 3HKO 98% of the time.

Even disregarding multiscale, assuming rocks are up or you've taken a bit of prior damage

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Torrent Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 252-296 (65.28 - 76.68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

so assuming you're at a reasonable health (+65-76%), you have little to fear from him, and all this assuming the absolute worst-case scenario (i.e: you played like a fucking idiot)

Meanwhile

4 SpA Dragonite Thunder vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 204-240 (57.14 - 67.22%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Assuming worst case scenario (torrent activation) that's a dead Feraligatr right there, and even if it's not and has over 60%, then no worries (it couldn't deal that much damage minus torrent anyways) it cannot 2HKO without torrent, so you can 2HKO it back, or you can always phaze it out, an option which always remains to you dealing ~25% damage which means it's crippled for the remaining match barring wish support (i.e more stupid play by you)

Standard sets anyways almost always use Mystic water over LO (to avoid recoil on low health, which is where Gatr usually likes to Operate with the Torrent boost) so they won't be dealing that much damage to you anyways. All in all, this is the most complete counter there exists to this pokemon and is unfazed by absolutely all standard moveset options this pokemon can run, a feat no other counter check in OU can claim. Well it has ice punch, but lol no one runs that, coverage being given up is too valuable

 

[ShootingStarmie]

Just like Soul Fly I also love Gator, and to have a sure counter, I'm going to assume the same battle comditions (Rain, SR, +2, Mystic Water).


Toxicroak @ Leftovers
Trait: Dry Skin
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 Spd
Impish Nature
- Substitute
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Toxic

Okay so my counter is Toxicroak. Now this set may seem un-usual, but I really do think it should rise in usage (because it counters Terrakion, Keldeo, Breloom, and banded Scizor in the rain, but that's beside the point). Toxicroak is immune to Gator's STAB, and resists every coverage move (Super Power, Crunch) bar Ice Punch.

+2 252+ Atk Feraligatr Ice Punch vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Toxicroak: 146-172 (39.67 - 46.73%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Pretty amazing counter, since most Gator's I run into aren't even running Ice Punch.

Okay so, EVs are used to out speed miniuum speed Rotom-W, while the rest is placed into physical bulk. Sub avoids status like Will-O-Wisp, and paralysis, Bulk Up provides a slow win condition for stallish based teams. Drain Punch is STAB, and gives you even more recovery, while Toxic hit's bulky Ground types that love to switch into this thing, like Hippodown, Landorus-T, etc. It's a cool set, try it out :]

 

[Prinz]

Feraligatr has many checks but not so many solid counters. Mons like Lati Twins, Salamence, Breloom, Celebi, Rotom-W, Kyurem-B and Dragonite can stop it but only if they are healthy because priority Aqua Jet and Waterfall still hit hard despite the resistance to Water-type of these mons. Other cool checks are Jellicent and Ferrothorn which can actually wall Feraligatr is it lacks Crunch and Superpower respectively (many people run Sword Dance / Aqua Jet / Waterfall and one of Superpower, Crunch or even Ice Punch and Earthquake and there's few people who actually run both Crunch and Superpower at least on the ladder). Other way to stop it are Slowbro and Tangrowth with their massive Defense and Tentacruel which can Toxic it and tank some hits, Amoonguss which can Spore / Giga Drain back it and even Toxicroak, as Shooting Starmie already said, which only fears Earthquake and Ice Punch (not common coverage moves though) and can setup on the crocodile its Bulk Up or its Sword Dance or even Toxic if it's running an (uncommon) Defensive set. Well, I think that I wrote enough things, if you guys have other things to post feel free to do it!