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Project Victim Of The Week [VoTW #27 - Zygarde / Zygarde-Complete]

Discussion in 'Battle Spot Singles' started by dogknees, Jan 26, 2017.

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  1. cant say

    cant say Banned juicer.
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Battle Spot Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2012
    Messages:
    3,981
    dogknees posting a Nihilego-beating Nihilego last week has inspired me to post this:

    [​IMG]

    Landorus-Therian @ Assault Vest / Mago Berry
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Relaxed Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Tomb
    - Hidden Power Ice
    - Fissure / U-turn / Knock Off / Stealth Rock

    Simple; Hidden Power Ice opposing Lando-T's. This may seem like a meme but it 2HKOes M-Mence / Chomp and gets Multiscale Dnite sometimes too.

    There's probably a better item / ev spread but I'm being lazy and HP ice is really all I care about.
  2. Fire Fist Ace

    Fire Fist Ace

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2014
    Messages:
    148
    While not too much more than a spicy meme for BSS stall teams, I introduce a tried-and-true awesome Pokemon that checks a plethora of physical attackers.

    [​IMG]
    Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet/Leftovers
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
    Ability: Sturdy
    Impish Nature
    - Roost
    - Toxic / Whirlwind
    - Stealth Rock / Whirlwind
    - Drill Peck / Brave Bird

    Just like in OU, the ugly dance between these two doesn't change. Skarmory is a nearly perfect Lando-T counter that takes minimal damage from all of Lando-T's unboosted attacks, while being immune to Earthquake. Skarmory only needs to worry about Swords Dance variants (which see 8% use this season so far, and less than 3% from last season), but it otherwise totally walls Scarf, Vest, Helmet, and non-SD Z-move versions.

    Skarmory, on the other hand, can lay down Rocks, Toxic, or phaze out Lando. The strategy is usually simple, since Skarm almost always forces it out. If it stays, Toxic and stall it out by Roost or attacking.

    Calcs:

    252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 39-47 (22.6 - 27.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

    252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 47-56 (27.3 - 32.5%) -- 75.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

    252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 70-83 (40.6 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

    +4 252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 151-178 (87.7 - 103.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

    I think the point has been made.
    dogknees likes this.
  3. The Squash

    The Squash

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2016
    Messages:
    181
    What does a flying tiger-dog-weather deity-thing fear more than anything else? A sentient iceberg of course!!

    [​IMG]
    Avalugg @ Figy Berry
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Impish Nature
    - Avalanche
    - Earthquake
    - Recover
    - Mirror Coat

    Thanks to Avalugg's rock-solid defenses (or should I say ICE solid defenses) it can tank anything Lando throws at it thank to sturdy, and can OHKO offensive sets and 2HKO physically defensive Lando after Intimidate. The set maximizes Avalugg's defensive capabilities, with Mirror Coat also being able to get the KO against special attackers.

    Offensive Calcs:
    (vs Physically Defensive) -1 0 Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 160-192 (81.6 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    (vs Scarf) -1 0 Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 228-268 (138.1 - 162.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Defensive Calcs:
    +2 252+ Atk Landorus-T Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 169-201 (83.6 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +2 252+ Atk Landorus-T Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 165-195 (81.6 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +2 252+ Atk Landorus-T Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 226-268 (111.8 - 132.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (You survive this with Sturdy)
    +2 252+ Atk Landorus-T Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 152-180 (75.2 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    All in all, nothing can stop our mighty iceberg friend (except climate change). This thing checks a plethora of Battle Spot's strongest physical attackers, including Garchomp, Salamence, Mimikyu, and Tapu Bulu.
  4. dogknees

    dogknees

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2016
    Messages:
    345
    Submissions are now closed! There are to be no edits of your own Pokemon, nor are there to be any new submissions. A few quick things to note;
    • Voting will close on the 11/6 at 12:30pm GMT+11 (8:30pm EST 10/6), where the next Vitim Of The Week will also be announced
    • You can't vote for your own submission
    • You can only change your vote once, so think carefully before doing so
    • You can vote even if you haven't made a submission. It is expected that you vote if you did submit yourself, but not compulsory
    Best of luck everybody!

    Corrin's Porygon2 (open)

    [​IMG]
    Porygon2 @ Eviolite
    Ability: Download
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA / 4 SpD
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Ice Beam
    - Foul Play / Toxic / Trick Room
    - Recover
    - Thunderbolt / Shadow Ball

    Switchin2win. Landorus-T is quite literally a free switch-in for P2 to come in and do whatever it wants, except if it's some really nasty SD + Groundium-Z Earthquake set and you switch in as Lando Sword Dances, but lets be real: that aint ever really happening. Now, the fun thing about P2 is that besides being a blank check to a bunch of stuff it is also easily tailored to fit your needs and glue your team together thanks to a wide arsenal of utility moves like T-Wave, Toxic and Trick Room. A great pick for those moments when you ask yourself: "uh, what else?"—this guy is most likely the answer.
    ThickFatAzumarill's Greninja (open)

    [​IMG]
    Edgy Ninja Frog (Greninja) @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Protean
    Level: 50
    EVs: 20 Atk / 236 SpA / 252 Spe
    Naive Nature
    - Gunk Shot
    - Dark Pulse / HP Fire
    - Ice Beam
    - Water Shuriken / Rock Slide

    Amazing offensive check to Lando. Beats any variant 1v1. The only move you need in this case is Ice Beam, and Greninja can choose its moves based on its teammates, so the slashes could go on and on...
    calcs (open)
    vs. Offensive variants
    236 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 312-372 (189 - 225.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    236 SpA Greninja Water Shuriken (3 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 90-108 (54.5 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    vs. Physically Defensive variants
    236 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 312-372 (159.1 - 189.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    236 SpA Greninja Water Shuriken (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 90-108 (45.9 - 55.1%) -- approx. 12.1% chance to 2HKO

    vs. Specially Defensive variants
    236 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Landorus-T: 216-256 (110.2 - 130.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    236 SpA Greninja Water Shuriken (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Landorus-T: 54-72 (27.5 - 36.7%) -- approx. 1.1% chance to 3HKO

    vs. AV
    236 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Landorus-T: 208-252 (106.1 - 128.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    236 SpA Greninja Water Shuriken (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Landorus-T: 54-72 (27.5 - 36.7%) -- approx. 1.1% chance to 3HKO

    vs. You'll never see this set in your life
    236 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Landorus-T: 144-172 (73.4 - 87.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    236 SpA Greninja Water Shuriken (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Landorus-T: 42-54 (21.4 - 27.5%) -- approx. 0.1% chance to 4HKO
    Leader Wallace's Weavile (open)

    [​IMG]
    Weavile @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Pressure
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Ice Shard
    - Icicle Crash
    - Knock Off
    - Low Kick

    Should always win in 1 v 1 scenario. Ice shard is useful for revenge killing against Rock Polish and Choice Scarf.

    Damage Calcs: -1 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 265-312 (161.5 - 190.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    -1 252 Atk Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 204-240 (124.3 - 146.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 Atk Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 144-172 (87.8 - 104.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 395-468 (240.8 - 285.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 187-224 (114 - 136.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    -1 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 130-156 (79.2 - 95.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    -1 252 Atk Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 100-120 (60.9 - 73.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    Vif-Argent's Cresselia (open)
    At first glance, before Corrin posts it, I've naturally thinking about P2 as a check. But we're at a fun place so goodbye classics and welcome uncommon stuff.

    [​IMG]
    Cresselia @ Rocky Helmet / Sitrus Berry / Wiki Berry
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Bold Nature
    - Ice Beam
    - Moonlight
    - Psychic / Lunar Dance
    - Lunar Dance / TWave / Trick Room / Toxic

    Offensive calcs

    0 SpA Cresselia Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 132-156 (67.3 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    0 SpA Cresselia Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 132-156 (80 - 94.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    0 SpA Cresselia Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Landorus-T: 88-108 (44.8 - 55.1%) -- 60.2% chance to 2HKO

    Defensive calcs
    Landorus-T Earthquake vs. Levitate Cresselia: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- lololololololololol
    252+ Atk Landorus-T U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 62-74 (27.3 - 32.5%) -- 55.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Choice Band Landorus-T U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 90-108 (39.6 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Landorus-T Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 84-100 (37 - 44%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Landorus-T Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 114-135 (50.2 - 59.4%)

    I prefer P2 overall but Cres is very relevant against Lando-T and can offer a free switch to a teammate with Lunar Dance.
    GateCreeper's Chesnaught (open)
    Today feels like a memey day for me, so...

    [​IMG]
    Chesnaught @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
    Ability: Bulletproof
    Level: 50
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Leech Seed
    - Spiky Shield
    - Drain Punch
    - Wood Hammer / Seed Bomb

    Can't touch this. Z-Fly is the only way Lando-T is hurting this thing hard with. However, Chesnaught easily counters every other set it has to offer. Spread your seeds, use your shield, and watch Lando-T's life force be drained slowly while occasionally whacking it with a hammer or bombing it with more seeds. Chesnaught isn't exactly real dead weight against teams without Lando-T on it either. It has fairly good matchups against other common Ground types like Hippowdon and Excadrill (Does really well against Ttar + Exca), Mega Gyarados, Mega Kangaskhan, Mega Swampert (not too sure if that's a real threat in singles yet, time will tell) and hard counters Breloom. Uh... that's about it. Cries and whines when up against everything else.
    calcs (open)
    Defensive

    252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 32-38 (16.4 - 19.4%) -- possible 6HKO
    252+ Atk Landorus-T U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 30-36 (15.3 - 18.4%) -- possible 6HKO
    252+ Atk Landorus-T Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 51-61 (26.1 - 31.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
    252+ Atk Choice Band Landorus-T Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 77-91 (39.4 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252+ Atk Landorus-T Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 448-532 (229.7 - 272.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO (The meme slayer FeelsBadMan)

    Offensive

    -1 0 Atk Chesnaught Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Landorus-T: 42-49 (21.4 - 25%) -- Miniscule chance to 4HKO
    0 Atk Chesnaught Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Landorus-T: 61-73 (31.1 - 37.2%) -- 84.4% chance to 3HKO
    Psychobuzz's Rotom-Wash (open)
    Does Landorus like being burned? No. This is one of the most common burn users in BSS.
    [​IMG]
    Rotom-Wash @ Wiki Berry / Sitrus Berry
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
    Bold Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Volt Switch
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Hidden Power Ice

    Not only Rotom delivers burns, but thanks to its ability and typing, it resists both of Lando's STABs and takes little damage from Stone Edge with max investment. Hydro Pump and Hidden Power Ice are two super-effective moves, Pump being more powerful while HP giving perfect accuracy. Thunderbolt could also be used in the last slot for a more consistently powerful alternative STAB move. Tricking a Wiki Berry might be interesting, as it confuses physical Lando after taking prior damage (and can be hilarious to watch).

    Here're the calcs:

    4 SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus-Therian: 156-186 (95.1 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
    4 SpA Rotom-Wash Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus-Therian: 112-136 (68.2 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Wash: 61-72 (38.8 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Wash: 47-56 (29.9 - 35.6%) -- 29.4% chance to 3HKO
    252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Wash: 56-67 (35.6 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    cant say's Landorus-Therian (open)
    dogknees posting a Nihilego-beating Nihilego last week has inspired me to post this:

    [​IMG]
    Landorus-Therian @ Assault Vest / Mago Berry
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Relaxed Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Tomb
    - Hidden Power Ice
    - Fissure / U-turn / Knock Off / Stealth Rock

    Simple; Hidden Power Ice opposing Lando-T's. This may seem like a meme but it 2HKOes M-Mence / Chomp and gets Multiscale Dnite sometimes too.

    There's probably a better item / ev spread but I'm being lazy and HP ice is really all I care about.
    Fire Fist Ace's Skarmory (open)
    While not too much more than a spicy meme for BSS stall teams, I introduce a tried-and-true awesome Pokemon that checks a plethora of physical attackers.

    [​IMG]
    Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet/Leftovers
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
    Ability: Sturdy
    Impish Nature
    - Roost
    - Toxic / Whirlwind
    - Stealth Rock / Whirlwind
    - Drill Peck / Brave Bird

    Just like in OU, the ugly dance between these two doesn't change. Skarmory is a nearly perfect Lando-T counter that takes minimal damage from all of Lando-T's unboosted attacks, while being immune to Earthquake. Skarmory only needs to worry about Swords Dance variants (which see 8% use this season so far, and less than 3% from last season), but it otherwise totally walls Scarf, Vest, Helmet, and non-SD Z-move versions.

    Skarmory, on the other hand, can lay down Rocks, Toxic, or phaze out Lando. The strategy is usually simple, since Skarm almost always forces it out. If it stays, Toxic and stall it out by Roost or attacking.

    Calcs:

    252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 39-47 (22.6 - 27.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

    252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 47-56 (27.3 - 32.5%) -- 75.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

    252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 70-83 (40.6 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

    +4 252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 151-178 (87.7 - 103.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

    I think the point has been made.
    The Squash's Avalugg (open)

    What does a flying tiger-dog-weather deity-thing fear more than anything else? A sentient iceberg of course!!

    [​IMG]
    Avalugg @ Figy Berry
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Impish Nature
    - Avalanche
    - Earthquake
    - Recover
    - Mirror Coat

    Thanks to Avalugg's rock-solid defenses (or should I say ICE solid defenses) it can tank anything Lando throws at it thank to sturdy, and can OHKO offensive sets and 2HKO physically defensive Lando after Intimidate. The set maximizes Avalugg's defensive capabilities, with Mirror Coat also being able to get the KO against special attackers.

    Offensive Calcs:
    (vs Physically Defensive) -1 0 Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 160-192 (81.6 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    (vs Scarf) -1 0 Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 228-268 (138.1 - 162.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Defensive Calcs:
    +2 252+ Atk Landorus-T Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 169-201 (83.6 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +2 252+ Atk Landorus-T Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 165-195 (81.6 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +2 252+ Atk Landorus-T Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 226-268 (111.8 - 132.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (You survive this with Sturdy)
    +2 252+ Atk Landorus-T Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 152-180 (75.2 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    All in all, nothing can stop our mighty iceberg friend (except climate change). This thing checks a plethora of Battle Spot's strongest physical attackers, including Garchomp, Salamence, Mimikyu, and Tapu Bulu.
  5. GateCreeper

    GateCreeper

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2014
    Messages:
    202
    Voting for Fire Fist Ace's Skarmory this week. Roost + Toxic just takes care of Lando-T really well. Would have liked to see Iron Defense on the moveset so it could face SD variants better in a 1v1 situation. Whirlwind is cool too though.
    dogknees likes this.
  6. ThickFatAzumarill

    ThickFatAzumarill

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2016
    Messages:
    185
    My vote this week goes to Fire Fist Ace's Skarmory.

    Even though it can be beaten by Smack Down, you're more likely to see Flynium Z sets around, and those can beat most of the defensive checks if played right.
    dogknees likes this.
  7. Psychobuzz

    Psychobuzz

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2016
    Messages:
    76
    Can't say's Landorus-Therian.

    Special attacks are the best way to take care of an opponent's Landorus-T. Can't say's version is a nice luring set containing Hidden Power Ice. I'd prefer the incarnate version though, but Therian's quite high SpAtk makes it just as effective. Did you know that Therian's SpAtk stat is higher than Greninja's?
    Chrono Prodigy and dogknees like this.
  8. The Squash

    The Squash

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2016
    Messages:
    181
    Voting for Corrin's Porygon-2. P2 has a pretty easy time beating Lando thanks to its good bulk and it can fit well on many teams.
    Johta and dogknees like this.
  9. Leader Wallace

    Leader Wallace

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    Messages:
    311
    Same as above.
    Johta and dogknees like this.
  10. Vif-Argent

    Vif-Argent

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2014
    Messages:
    185
    TFA's Greninja

    Greninja is so versatile that it remains a good tool for any team
    ThickFatAzumarill and dogknees like this.
  11. Moose And Goose

    Moose And Goose

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2016
    Messages:
    77
    Corrin's Porygon2. This duck really pulls it's weight as far as lando-t killing.
    dogknees likes this.
  12. dogknees

    dogknees

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2016
    Messages:
    345
    Congratulations to Corrin for winning VoTW 18 (Landorus-Therian) with your submission of Porygon2! Your post will be logged into the archive.
    Victim of the week #19 - Greninja

    [​IMG]

    Another one of those straight forward mons, but can be extremely difficult to deal with. Typically running Focus Sash, greninja is an amazing choice as a check to almost everything in the metagame, depending on what moves you chose to use. Gunk shot covers for all the Tapus, Fairies in general and Grass-types such as Serperior. Ice Beam covers for anything Flying / Ground-type pretty well, notably Mega-Salamence, Landorus-Therian and Garchomp. Dark Pulse is great for general dark coverage and hits both Aegislash and Cresselia really hard. Grass knot smacks bulky Ground / Water-types such as Hippowdon and Tapu Fini. Hidden Power Fire is great for Ferrothron and Mega-Scizor, though hidden power electric is a (less viable) option to smakc Gyarados pre-mega and still hit Celesteela. Low kick provides a nice OHKO on Tyranitar, and also hits Heatran and SPD Celesteela for heavy damage. Rock tomb is a fantastic choice to check Volcarona, Zard-Y and Zard-X. Hydro Pump / Surf can be powerful options for Fire and Ground-types, whilst Water Shurkien is another good option for priority. Extrasensory deals heavy damage to Mega-Venusaur and Toxpaex, whilst U-Turn is usable for pivot. Greninja has so much versatility which it can apply to any team, making it rather difficult to account for. So, How do you stop Greninja?

    Submissions are open and will be closed in three days and 20 hours from now. Best of luck everyone!
    Psychobuzz and Johta like this.
  13. Vif-Argent

    Vif-Argent

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2014
    Messages:
    185
    I won't take any risk now.

    [​IMG]
    Porygon2 @ Eviolite
    Ability: Trace
    EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA / 4 SpD / 4 Spe
    Bold Nature
    - Ice Beam
    - Discharge / Foul Play / Shadow Ball
    - Recover
    - Thunder Wave / Trick Room / Toxic

    Here's is the answer to every problem. Porygon2 is the bulkiest mon in BSS and don't care about a lot of things. Greninja can't do a lot of things to P2. Just be careful with TWave strategy, now Paralysis just cut half of the Speed, so a paralyzed Greninja still outspeed Porygon2.

    Defensive calcs
    252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 244 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 74-87 (38.7 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252 SpA Sash Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 244 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 57-67 (29.8 - 35%) -- 15% chance to 3HKO
    252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Cannon vs. 244 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 114-135 (59.6 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 244 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 84-99 (43.9 - 51.8%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 244 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 55-64 (28.7 - 33.5%) -- Miniscule chance to 3HKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 57-70 (29.8 - 36.6%) -- 27% chance to 3HKO
    20 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 47-57 (24.6 - 29.8%) -- 99.6% chance to 4HKO

    Offensive calcs
    4 SpA Porygon2 Discharge vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Water Greninja: 94-112 (63.9 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    4 SpA Porygon2 Discharge vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD non-Water Greninja: 47-56 (31.9 - 38%) -- 94.7% chance to 3HKO
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2017
  14. GateCreeper

    GateCreeper

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2014
    Messages:
    202
    inb4 Porygon2 wins again

    [​IMG]

    Suicune @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Pressure
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 196 SpA / 20 SpD / 4 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Scald
    - Ice Beam / Icy Wind
    - Mirror Coat
    - Sheer Cold

    Mirror coat dis frog. Sashed? This Suicune is EV'd to take two Grass Knots from non-LO Greninja. Grassium-Z? Doesn't OHKO and Mirror Coat will. Doesn't have Grass Knot at all? Greninja is most likely not beating AV Suicune unless heavily invested in Attack along with Gunk Shot. Even then Gunk Shot will not do over half, and the Special Attack EVs ensure that you're 2HKOing Greninja with Scald if it's anything other than a water or grass-type.

    Calcs (open)


    Defensive Calcs

    252 SpA Protean Greninja Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Assault Vest Suicune: 84-102 (40.5 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    236 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Assault Vest Suicune: 44-55 (21.2 - 26.5%) -- 4.8% chance to 4HKO
    236 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Assault Vest Suicune: 109-133 (52.6 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    20 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 36 Def Suicune: 75-90 (36.2 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 36 Def Suicune: 94-110 (45.4 - 53.1%) -- 31.3% chance to 2HKO

    Offensive Calcs

    196+ SpA Suicune Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 75-88 (51 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


    Last edited: Jun 10, 2017
  15. Fire Fist Ace

    Fire Fist Ace

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2014
    Messages:
    148
    [​IMG]


    Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
    Ability: Electric Terrain
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Dazzling Gleam
    - HP Ice
    - U-turn / Volt Switch / Nature's Madness

    Thunderbolt is the only move that really matters here, unless you want to pivot out and predict a switch with U-turn or Volt Switch. LO Timid max investment kills standard 0/0 Timid and Naive with Thunderbolt in the Terrain regardless of typing, and Thunderbolt kills Water Greninja outside Terrain.

    Gunk Shot always OHKOes and Hydro Pump will (almost always) OHKO from LO sets. But that doesn't matter unless you see a fringe as-fuck Scarf version, since Koko will always outspeed.

    252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja in Electric Terrain: 160-188 (108.8 - 127.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO Protean to Non-Water

    252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja in Electric Terrain: 320-377 (217.6 - 256.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO Protean to Water
    dogknees likes this.
  16. cant say

    cant say Banned juicer.
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Battle Spot Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2012
    Messages:
    3,981
    sorry Vif-Argent this p2 is better

    [​IMG]
    Porygon2 @ Eviolite
    Ability: Analytic
    EVs: 244 HP / 4 Atk / 12 Def / 4 SpA / 244 SpD
    Sassy Nature
    - Return
    - Ice Beam
    - Foul Play
    - Recover

    SpDef P2 is better since the huge majority of Gren are special attacking / mixed, so being able to tank more Dark Pulses (so you don't get flinched to death) and random Z moves is much better. Low Kick does do more against this than Vif's set, but even max investment Life Orb sets won't 2HKO (which you then stall out their recoil with Recover) so this P2 doesn't worry about them.

    Return is the best but some people like to use "normal" moves like Tri Attack which is fine on this set too I guess.
  17. Vif-Argent

    Vif-Argent

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2014
    Messages:
    185
    Mommy, cant say is not nice to me :-(:mad:
    dogknees, Hulavuta and Leader Wallace like this.
  18. Johta

    Johta

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Messages:
    669
    Uhm, this is interesting. Care to elaborate why? Tri-Attack dos slighly more damage, you can fish for hax with it and doesn't trigger Rocky Helmet / Rough Skin. Is there anything P2 wants to hit specifically on the physical side? And why run Analytic over Download or Trace? Legitimately curious.
    calcsvsdummyGreninja (open)

    0 SpA Porygon2 Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Greninja: 70-84 (47.6 - 57.1%) -- 87.9% chance to 2HKO
    0 Atk Porygon2 Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 67-79 (45.5 - 53.7%) -- 39.1% chance to 2HKO
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2017
    dogknees likes this.
  19. The Squash

    The Squash

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2016
    Messages:
    181
    [​IMG]
    Rainbow Sherbert (Muk-Alola) @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Poison Touch
    Level: 50
    EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def
    Adamant Nature
    - Poison Jab / Gunk Shot
    - Knock Off
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Rock Tomb / Pursuit / Clear Smog

    Alolan Muk can tank any hit from Greninja thanks to Assault Vest and beat it back with either Poison Jab or Gunk Shot. This set is pretty standard, with dual STABS, and Shadow Sneak to revenge kill. The last move is either for beating Zard-Y, Pursuit trapping, or taking down setup sweepers with Clear Smog.

    Offensive Calcs:
    252+ Atk Muk-Alola Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 90-106 (61.2 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Muk-Alola Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 135-159 (91.8 - 108.1%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

    Defensive Calcs:
    252 SpA Greninja Hydro Vortex (185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Muk-Alola: 91-108 (42.9 - 50.9%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO
    (vs Mixed Life Orb) 236 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Muk-Alola: 56-68 (26.4 - 32%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
    20 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Muk-Alola: 55-64 (25.9 - 30.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
    20 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Low Kick (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Muk-Alola: 74-87 (34.9 - 41%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    (vs Focus Sash) 252 SpA Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Muk-Alola: 54-64 (25.4 - 30.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
    (vs Physical Attacker) 252 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Low Kick (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Muk-Alola: 90-107 (42.4 - 50.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Muk-Alola: 66-79 (31.1 - 37.2%) -- 85.4% chance to 3HKO
  20. Psychobuzz

    Psychobuzz

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2016
    Messages:
    76
    Let's see how the other Eviolite wall compares to Porygon2 in terms of walling Greninja to hell and back.

    [​IMG]
    Chansey @ Eviolite
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpD / 252 SpD
    Bold Nature
    - Seismic Toss
    - Soft-Boiled
    - Minimize
    - Substitute / Thunder Wave / Toxic

    Unlike Porygon2, Chansey has a better evasion move in the name of Minimize, which coupled with any one of these three status move in the last slot and Soft-Boiled, makes it even more frustrating for Greninja or the opposing team to deal with once their wallbreaker is taken down. It also makes the name of this Pokemon even more relevant. :P So, what are the chances of taking down this Chansey variant?

    Let's have a look at some calcs:
    Chansey Seismic Toss vs. 0 HP Greninja: 50-50 (34 - 34%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    4 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 109-130 (33.4 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    4 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 109-133 (33.4 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 55-64 (16.8 - 19.6%) -- guaranteed 6HKO
    dogknees likes this.
  21. cant say

    cant say Banned juicer.
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Battle Spot Leader

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    3,981
    Return is really good for specially bulky things like Lele, Zard Y and Volcarona, and doesn't worsen the Greninja matchup. Analytic gives reliable power whereas Download can screw you up sometimes. Basically it's just personal preference but I stand by Return + Analytic being a good option.
    dogknees and Johta like this.
  22. Hulavuta

    Hulavuta It's Mac Tonight!
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Battle Spot Leader

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    Messages:
    1,713
    dogknees posting a Nihilego-beating Nihilego inspiring cant say posting a Landorus-T-beating Landorus-T has inspired me to post this:

    [​IMG]

    Gregninja @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Protean
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Naive Nature
    - Low Kick
    - Rock Tomb
    - Water Shuriken
    - Grass Knot

    Use Low Kick to OHKO Greninjas. Since you're Scarf, you're faster. With Water Shuriken, you can take out Greninjas who would want to use Water Shuriken on you. If they've already been brought down to Sash by something, this will kill. It does a good 18.3 - 24.4% so it can even take out low-HP Greninjas if they haven't necessarily been brought down to Sash yet. Grass Knot if Greninja is currently a Water-type, Low Kick if he's still Dark-type or Ice-type. Rock Tomb or Water Shuriken if he's Fire-type from HP Fire. If you don't think you can kill in one turn, you can Rock Tomb and then revenge kill it with your next Pokemon which should be faster.

    An alternative EV spread is 200 Attack 56 Special Attack. That removes the guaranteed OHKO from Low Kick for a 97.2 - 117% roll, but also gives you an equal roll for Grass Knot against Naive, and 86.3 - 102.7% against Timid.
  23. ThickFatAzumarill

    ThickFatAzumarill

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2016
    Messages:
    185
    [​IMG]
    Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
    Ability: Intimidate
    Level: 50
    EVs: 4 HP / 244 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Crunch
    - Earthquake
    - Taunt / Waterfall / Ice Fang
    - Dragon Dance

    How about a Water/Dark mon to defeat another? Unless it carries Grass Knot or is stuck in gen 6 and has Low Kick, it can't threaten Gyarados much, and if Gyara hasn't mega evolved yet, you can always take advantage of pre-mega Flying Type to dodge it.

    calcs (open)

    (Gren vs. Gyara)
    236 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 4 SpD Mega Gyarados: 34-40 (19.8 - 23.3%) -- possible 5HKO
    236 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 4 SpD Mega Gyarados: 30-35 (17.5 - 20.4%) -- possible 5HKO
    20 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 4 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 79-95 (46.1 - 55.5%) -- 71.5% chance to 2HKO
    -1 20 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 4 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 55-64 (32.1 - 37.4%) -- 84.8% chance to 3HKO
    236 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 4 SpD Mega Gyarados: 179-213 (104.6 - 124.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    236 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados: 110-133 (64.3 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    (Gyara vs Gren)
    244 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 90-106 (61.2 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    244 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 108-127 (73.4 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (if Greninja isn't Dark Type)
    +1 244 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 134-158 (91.1 - 107.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
    +1 244 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 160-190 (108.8 - 129.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (if Greninja isn't Dark Type)
    dogknees likes this.
  24. dogknees

    dogknees

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2016
    Messages:
    345
    Submissions are now closed! There are to be no edits of your own Pokemon, nor are there to be any new submissions. A few quick things to note;
    • Voting will close on the 17/6 at 12:30pm GMT+11 (8:30pm EST 16/6), where the next Vitim Of The Week will also be announced
    • You can't vote for your own submission
    • You can only change your vote once, so think carefully before doing so
    • You can vote even if you haven't made a submission. It is expected that you vote if you did submit yourself, but not compulsory
    Best of luck everybody!
    Vif-Argent's Porygon2 (open)
    I won't take any risk now.

    [​IMG]
    Porygon2 @ Eviolite
    Ability: Trace
    EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA / 4 SpD / 4 Spe
    Bold Nature
    - Ice Beam
    - Discharge / Foul Play / Shadow Ball
    - Recover
    - Thunder Wave / Trick Room / Toxic

    Here's is the answer to every problem. Porygon2 is the bulkiest mon in BSS and don't care about a lot of things. Greninja can't do a lot of things to P2. Just be careful with TWave strategy, now Paralysis just cut half of the Speed, so a paralyzed Greninja still outspeed Porygon2.

    Defensive calcs
    252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 244 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 74-87 (38.7 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252 SpA Sash Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 244 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 57-67 (29.8 - 35%) -- 15% chance to 3HKO
    252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Cannon vs. 244 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 114-135 (59.6 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 244 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 84-99 (43.9 - 51.8%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 244 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 55-64 (28.7 - 33.5%) -- Miniscule chance to 3HKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 57-70 (29.8 - 36.6%) -- 27% chance to 3HKO
    20 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 47-57 (24.6 - 29.8%) -- 99.6% chance to 4HKO

    Offensive calcs
    4 SpA Porygon2 Discharge vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Water Greninja: 94-112 (63.9 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    4 SpA Porygon2 Discharge vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD non-Water Greninja: 47-56 (31.9 - 38%) -- 94.7% chance to 3HKO
    Gatecreeper's Suicune (open)
    inb4 Porygon2 wins again

    [​IMG]
    Suicune @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Pressure
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 196 SpA / 20 SpD / 4 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Scald
    - Ice Beam / Icy Wind
    - Mirror Coat
    - Sheer Cold

    Mirror coat dis frog. Sashed? This Suicune is EV'd to take two Grass Knots from non-LO Greninja. Grassium-Z? Doesn't OHKO and Mirror Coat will. Doesn't have Grass Knot at all? Greninja is most likely not beating AV Suicune unless heavily invested in Attack along with Gunk Shot. Even then Gunk Shot will not do over half, and the Special Attack EVs ensure that you're 2HKOing Greninja with Scald if it's anything other than a water or grass-type.
    calcs (open)
    Defensive Calcs

    252 SpA Protean Greninja Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Assault Vest Suicune: 84-102 (40.5 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    236 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Assault Vest Suicune: 44-55 (21.2 - 26.5%) -- 4.8% chance to 4HKO
    236 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Assault Vest Suicune: 109-133 (52.6 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    20 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 36 Def Suicune: 75-90 (36.2 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 36 Def Suicune: 94-110 (45.4 - 53.1%) -- 31.3% chance to 2HKO

    Offensive Calcs

    196+ SpA Suicune Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 75-88 (51 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    Fire Fist Ace's Tapu Koko (open)

    [​IMG]

    Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
    Ability: Electric Terrain
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Dazzling Gleam
    - HP Ice
    - U-turn / Volt Switch / Nature's Madness

    Thunderbolt is the only move that really matters here, unless you want to pivot out and predict a switch with U-turn or Volt Switch. LO Timid max investment kills standard 0/0 Timid and Naive with Thunderbolt in the Terrain regardless of typing, and Thunderbolt kills Water Greninja outside Terrain.

    Gunk Shot always OHKOes and Hydro Pump will (almost always) OHKO from LO sets. But that doesn't matter unless you see a fringe as-fuck Scarf version, since Koko will always outspeed.

    252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja in Electric Terrain: 160-188 (108.8 - 127.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO Protean to Non-Water

    252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja in Electric Terrain: 320-377 (217.6 - 256.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO Protean to Water
    cant say's Porygon2 (open)
    sorry Vif-Argent this p2 is better

    [​IMG]
    Porygon2 @ Eviolite
    Ability: Analytic
    EVs: 244 HP / 4 Atk / 12 Def / 4 SpA / 244 SpD
    Sassy Nature
    - Return
    - Ice Beam
    - Foul Play
    - Recover

    SpDef P2 is better since the huge majority of Gren are special attacking / mixed, so being able to tank more Dark Pulses (so you don't get flinched to death) and random Z moves is much better. Low Kick does do more against this than Vif's set, but even max investment Life Orb sets won't 2HKO (which you then stall out their recoil with Recover) so this P2 doesn't worry about them.

    Return is the best but some people like to use "normal" moves like Tri Attack which is fine on this set too I guess.
    The Squash's Alolan-Muk (open)

    [​IMG]
    Rainbow Sherbert (Muk-Alola) @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Poison Touch
    Level: 50
    EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def
    Adamant Nature
    - Poison Jab / Gunk Shot
    - Knock Off
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Rock Tomb / Pursuit / Clear Smog

    Alolan Muk can tank any hit from Greninja thanks to Assault Vest and beat it back with either Poison Jab or Gunk Shot. This set is pretty standard, with dual STABS, and Shadow Sneak to revenge kill. The last move is either for beating Zard-Y, Pursuit trapping, or taking down setup sweepers with Clear Smog.

    Offensive Calcs:
    252+ Atk Muk-Alola Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 90-106 (61.2 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Muk-Alola Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 135-159 (91.8 - 108.1%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

    Defensive Calcs:
    252 SpA Greninja Hydro Vortex (185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Muk-Alola: 91-108 (42.9 - 50.9%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO
    (vs Mixed Life Orb) 236 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Muk-Alola: 56-68 (26.4 - 32%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
    20 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Muk-Alola: 55-64 (25.9 - 30.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
    20 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Low Kick (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Muk-Alola: 74-87 (34.9 - 41%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    (vs Focus Sash) 252 SpA Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Muk-Alola: 54-64 (25.4 - 30.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
    (vs Physical Attacker) 252 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Low Kick (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Muk-Alola: 90-107 (42.4 - 50.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Muk-Alola: 66-79 (31.1 - 37.2%) -- 85.4% chance to 3HKO
    PsychoBuzz's Chansey (open)
    Let's see how the other Eviolite wall compares to Porygon2 in terms of walling Greninja to hell and back.

    [​IMG]
    Chansey @ Eviolite
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpD / 252 SpD
    Bold Nature
    - Seismic Toss
    - Soft-Boiled
    - Minimize
    - Substitute / Thunder Wave / Toxic

    Unlike Porygon2, Chansey has a better evasion move in the name of Minimize, which coupled with any one of these three status move in the last slot and Soft-Boiled, makes it even more frustrating for Greninja or the opposing team to deal with once their wallbreaker is taken down. It also makes the name of this Pokemon even more relevant. :P So, what are the chances of taking down this Chansey variant?

    Let's have a look at some calcs:
    Chansey Seismic Toss vs. 0 HP Greninja: 50-50 (34 - 34%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    4 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 109-130 (33.4 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    4 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 109-133 (33.4 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 55-64 (16.8 - 19.6%) -- guaranteed 6HKO
    Hulavuta's Greninja (open)
    dogknees posting a Nihilego-beating Nihilego inspiring cant say posting a Landorus-T-beating Landorus-T has inspired me to post this:

    [​IMG]
    Gregninja @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Protean
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Naive Nature
    - Low Kick
    - Rock Tomb
    - Water Shuriken
    - Grass Knot

    Use Low Kick to OHKO Greninjas. Since you're Scarf, you're faster. With Water Shuriken, you can take out Greninjas who would want to use Water Shuriken on you. If they've already been brought down to Sash by something, this will kill. It does a good 18.3 - 24.4% so it can even take out low-HP Greninjas if they haven't necessarily been brought down to Sash yet. Grass Knot if Greninja is currently a Water-type, Low Kick if he's still Dark-type or Ice-type. Rock Tomb or Water Shuriken if he's Fire-type from HP Fire. If you don't think you can kill in one turn, you can Rock Tomb and then revenge kill it with your next Pokemon which should be faster.

    An alternative EV spread is 200 Attack 56 Special Attack. That removes the guaranteed OHKO from Low Kick for a 97.2 - 117% roll, but also gives you an equal roll for Grass Knot against Naive, and 86.3 - 102.7% against Timid.
    ThickFatAzumarill's Mega-Gyarados (open)
    [​IMG]
    Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
    Ability: Intimidate
    Level: 50
    EVs: 4 HP / 244 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Crunch
    - Earthquake
    - Taunt / Waterfall / Ice Fang
    - Dragon Dance

    How about a Water/Dark mon to defeat another? Unless it carries Grass Knot or is stuck in gen 6 and has Low Kick, it can't threaten Gyarados much, and if Gyara hasn't mega evolved yet, you can always take advantage of pre-mega Flying Type to dodge it.
    calcs (open)
    (Gren vs. Gyara)
    236 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 4 SpD Mega Gyarados: 34-40 (19.8 - 23.3%) -- possible 5HKO
    236 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 4 SpD Mega Gyarados: 30-35 (17.5 - 20.4%) -- possible 5HKO
    20 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 4 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 79-95 (46.1 - 55.5%) -- 71.5% chance to 2HKO
    -1 20 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 4 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 55-64 (32.1 - 37.4%) -- 84.8% chance to 3HKO
    236 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 4 SpD Mega Gyarados: 179-213 (104.6 - 124.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    236 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados: 110-133 (64.3 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    (Gyara vs Gren)
    244 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 90-106 (61.2 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    244 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 108-127 (73.4 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (if Greninja isn't Dark Type)
    +1 244 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 134-158 (91.1 - 107.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
    +1 244 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 160-190 (108.8 - 129.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (if Greninja isn't Dark Type)
  25. NOVED

    NOVED twitch.tv/novedpoke
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2014
    Messages:
    1,301
    Gonna go with Vif-Argent's Porygon2.

    P2 is way too reliable for me not to vote for it. Basically had to decide which spread I thought was better and for Greninja it's looking like phys def is the way to go, imo at least. I did some calcs to see how close the 2hkos were on each sets weaker side.

    252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 244 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 74-87 (38.7 - 45.5%) -- 12.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 244 HP / 12 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 78-94 (40.8 - 49.2%) -- 71.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 244 HP / 12 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 81-96 (42.4 - 50.2%) -- 87.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    These calcs aren't that great for either set but I like the odds of phys def, especially when you consider that Greninjas running sash make the calcs much softer. Still a hard choice between the two if you wanna consider Dark Pulse flinches and stuff but it's hard for me to decide if that's enough to change my vote so im gonna stick with phys def. Ideally I would've liked to see some kind of mixed spread for ninja but /shrug.
    Vif-Argent and dogknees like this.
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