1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Victim of the Week: Week 12, Lileep (See Post #109)

Discussion in 'BW LC' started by The Unlucky one, Jan 2, 2013.

  1. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude Different breed imo
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Media Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2012
    Messages:
    1,368
    Although Timburr does have a low base 35 Speed it is quite hard to revenge kill with its massive attack stat and access to priority Mach Punch. However if you can predict when a Timburr is going to swith in a Murkrow and Abra can do quite well with their Brave Bird and Psychic respectively. As for Pokemon that can wall Timburr a lot of bulky poison-types can do a good job because they resist Timburr's Fighting-type stab. Unfortunatly there is not too much of these Pokemon available. Woodchuck did mention Foongus who has Clear Smog to remove Timburr's stat boosts and can put him to sleep with Spore. Koffing is another bulky pokemon that resists Drain Punch and Mach Punch and can use Clear Smog to get rid of Timburr's Bulk Up boosts. Croagunk with its fantastic typing resists the standard Timburr's Dark/Fighting coverage and can hit it on its pitiful special defense with Shadow Ball or Vacuum Wave. The latter is a Stab move that has priority thus being faster then Timburrs Mach Punch.
  2. Hawkstar

    Hawkstar Unplug me from this fantasy
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a SPL Winner

    Joined:
    May 23, 2010
    Messages:
    800
    Actually, Timburr is way specially bulkier than people think, and I've said it many times before but I'll repeat: Sash Abra's Psychic isn't an OHKO 100% of the time if Timburr is at full health. Also, while spectating a match yesterday, I saw Timburr stmoach Misdreavus's +4 Shadow Ball and KO with two Paybacks. That is legitimately impressive!

    As such, I'd say Timburr's biggest counter is Foongus. Foongus resists Fighting without being weak to Payback, and is slower so that it doesn't get a boost. It has Spore to entirely shut it down, or if you already used it once, it can continually use Giga Drain. Even with Timburr's excellent special bulk, you will still eventually win. After finishing off Timburr, Foongus can even switch out to regain all the remaining damage it has from its encounter with Timburr.
  3. Rowan

    Rowan not a professor
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,612
    It must be noted that Standard Croagunk cannot beat Timburr as Timburr can just Bulk Up and beat it 1v1. However, Bulk Up Crogaunk will always beat Timburr one on one, which is one of the main reasons I prefer the bulk up set. As others said, Foongus is probably the best counter out there. Also, Frillish does quite well. It 'outslows' Timburr so Payback isn't that powerful, and if cursed body activates then Timburr is screwed.
    Timburr's biggest downfall is the fact it can be worn down pretty easily even with Drain Punch. With some clever switching between Misdreavus and Murkrow it can usually be handled quite easily.
  4. The Unlucky one

    The Unlucky one

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2012
    Messages:
    996
    Alright guys Delver gave me permission to take over this thread so let's go for week 7! (hopefully there aren't anymore "ish"es)


    [​IMG]

    Scraggy
    50 HP / 75 Atk / 70 Def / 35 SpA / 70 SDef / 48 Spe
    Abilities: Shed Skin / Moxie / Intimidate (DW)


    So the next threat to be discussed will be Scraggy -- the Lizard thing that doesn't have as much swag as it's evolution. Scraggy is amongst the most fearsome threats in the metagame. It is an extremely bulky pokemon when equipped with Eviolite thanks to it's rather good base defenses. This allows it to set-up on some of the biggest threats in the metagame such as Misdreavus. If it opts for Moxie, it will be harder to kill every time it kills something. If it runs Shed Skin, you will have a hard time trying to wear it down or burn it. It is also an extremely tough pokemon to resist as it's two main STABs being incredibly hard to resist, and even Croagunk -- the only pokemon that resists both moves, gets wrecked by a Zen Headbutt. Even things among the likes of Timburr will have a hard time beating it if the Scraggy got enough Attacks boosts and uses Zen Headbutt. This can easily be the most threatening pokemon when not prepared for, so we gotta prepare for it.
  5. apt-get

    apt-get I'll treasure that moment as I smiled, when I wasn't alone
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2012
    Messages:
    635
    Mienfoo of course nearly always beats scraggy 1 on 1, but the fact that knock off scraggy is becoming a bit more common means that nearly nothing can beat it, except ScarfKrow maybe. Timburr and Croagunk are two major checks too, and even at +2, +Spe Scarfkrow still beats it.
  6. dcae

    dcae naughty list

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,169
    I run ScarfKrow on my favorite LC team just to beat Scraggy. No matter what, I switch into Scraggy s set upand then revenge it easily. For the sole reason of ScarfKrow, I haven't ever been swept by a Scraggy. However, I have rarely lost to Mienfoo 1v1 when running Scraggy, but that's probably because I am generally already with a Dragon Dance. Also, Croagunk cannot be considered a great check because a lot of Scraggy run Zen Headbutt as their coverage move. Without that however, Riolu and Croagunk become legitimate checks because Riolu has Copycat and Croagunk resists the gangster lizard's moves. Overall Scraggy is monstrous threat, but has a list of common checks and counters that can stop it.
  7. Delver

    Delver I got the runs like Jagger

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    219
    Defensive Mienfoo can handle a +1 Drain Punch from Scraggy for sure, I think that goes for HJK? It could 2HKO, I truly dont remember. The biggest issue with Scraggy as a sweeper is that it suffers from 4mss so hard its not even funny. It really enjoys being able to run knock off to deal with answers like mienfoo but finding a move slot for it is really hard. Drain Punch provides it with sustainability that helps differentiate it from other sweepers while crunch is necessary for both decent coverage and Stab. this basically leaves 1 move slot to cover: Croagunk, Shelmet, Mienfoo, Scarfkrow, and everything else. To get to the point, the best answer to Scraggy depends heavily on its 4th move. If it opted for HJK, Croagunk is the best answer, though its access to ZHB makes that a risky initial switch in. Shelmet/Scarfkrow can handle Scraggy without Head Smash/Stone Edge but both will be hurt hard (if not outright OHKO'd) by them if he does.


    So aside from just packing a good switch in like Croagunk / mienfoo scouting its move set is really important else you could just facilitate its sweep.


    Also big ol' thanks to Unlucky one for continuing the thread. I've been really busy lately and cant handle the responsibility of running my own thread :'(
  8. Nebuchadnezzar

    Nebuchadnezzar

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2012
    Messages:
    118
    Two of my favorite counters to Scraggy are Shelmet and Doduo.

    Shelmet has already been mentioned by Delver, but he didn't mention that Head Smash/Stone Edge are extremely rare on Scraggy. Neither are in the top 8 moves used on Scraggy and as such are on less the about 8% of Scraggies. I have found Shelmet as a great switch in not only capable of shutting down Scraggy but also to set Spikes.

    Scarf Doduo is another great poke to counter Scraggy. If you come in while he DD's, you outspeed and KO with Brave Bird. Dodou has dual utility in being able to break Subs and Sashes with Double Hit for Abra and Murkrow.
  9. Rowan

    Rowan not a professor
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,612
    Scarfers are always risky as if you're facing someone good, they probably won't DD until they've worked out the set of your doduo/taillow/murkrow or whatever other flyer. So Scraggy might just attack straight off which will hurt these frail pokemon quite a bit. Only really great for revenging.

    Things like Koffing and Foongus with Clear Smog can prevent set up but in my experience they don't really do too well against Scraggy 1v1. Flyers that resist fighting like Ducklett can come in and featherdance it, which is a decent way of handling it.

    As a side note, I think a good idea would be to have a compendium of all the votw's in the OP then update them after each Pokemon is over to show a list of counters and under what conditions the Pokemon can counter it. (eg. Larvesta counters Snover but must be wary of HP Rock upon switching in). This can serve as a quick and easy check for newer players who are struggling to know how to deal with a big threat efficiently. I often see newer players on PS after I've swept them with a Scraggy or something saying I have no idea how to deal with that threat and I could easily re-direct them to the thread. Just a thought...
  10. Nebuchadnezzar

    Nebuchadnezzar

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2012
    Messages:
    118
    I just want to say that I really really like this idea. I remember when I first started LC a few months ago I had no idea where to start. The only things I had to help me were the analyses on-site and the helpfulness of the PS! chat. Someone like Corkscrew linking me to a list like that would have greatly helped me learn the meta.
  11. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte Fastest man alive
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,047
    My favorite Scraggy counter is Riolu. Scraggys that do not carry Zen Headbutt are defeated easily, as DDance+HJK can be protect scouted and then 2HKO'd with Drain Punch. Even Scraggys that do carry Zen Headbutt can be defeated but it requires 100% HP on Riolu's end- as +1 Zen Headbutt does up to 95%. You can even steal its boosts with Copycat if you have the nerve.

    Hippopotas and Murkrow are both decent checks to Zen Headbutt DDance Scraggy and can handle HJK Scraggy too under certain circumstances. Hippo doesn't even take 50% from +1 Crunch and can recover stall with toxic or phaze. Murkrow too can survive multiple Drain punches but HJK is an OHKO so you'll need FeatherDance in order to beat it. In return, Murkrow OHKO's with Brave Bird.

    @Dcae, I didn't mean ScarfKrow, I meant Evio Krow lol
  12. Good_Luck!

    Good_Luck!

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2011
    Messages:
    199
    Cottonee is a great switch-in to Scraggy when it Dragon Dances as Prankster Encore will prevent it from doing anything besides setup.

    Once it has set up the counters to Scraggy depend heavily on the coverage move it runs: without Zen Headbutt Tentacool, Koffing and Fighting-types become a nightmare; without Rock-type attacks Shelmet and Larvesta have a picnic day with it; without Ice Punch or Head Smash it can't hit Vullaby nor Murkrow...

    The surprise value of Moxie make it very hard to take down as most players won't status it, it's only when it has KOed something that you find out "oh, I must have used Toxic".
  13. dcae

    dcae naughty list

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,169
    That's why I run Zen Headbutt ;) imo quick Scarfer birds are easily the best checks to Scraggy.

    Agree with Corkscrew though: I never DD if I see an opposing bird. I try to catch them on the switch. That's why the scarfers are only checks. Counters can only be determined by scouting Scraggys coverage move. Otherwise, Shelmet is a great wall to use, allong with physical bulky pokes that resist HJK. Overall, one of the tougher pokes to beat in LC.
  14. The Unlucky one

    The Unlucky one

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2012
    Messages:
    996
    Alright guys we are up to Week 8. I'm probably gonna make a compendium of checks and counters for VOTW soon but first off we need to discuss the threat of this week.

    [​IMG]

    Tirtouga
    54 HP / 78 Atk / 103 Def / 53 SpA / 45 SDef / 22 Spe
    Abilities: Solid Rock / Sturdy / Swift Swim (DW)


    Tirtouga made a giant splash (pun intended) in the LC metagame once it was discovered. It probably is the most threatening Shell Smash user in LC thanks to it's ability to get up a Shell Smash rather easily and the ability to set-up on some variants of Murkrow. After a Shell Smash it can reach a massive 38 Attack, which makes it incredibly hard to wall especially when it runs a Liechi Berry, which lets it OHKO pokemon such as Foongus and Shroomish at +3 after Stealth Rock as well as doing massive damage to Lileep. You can't stop it with a fast scarfer like Murkrow thanks to incredibly powerful priority Aqua Jet so it becomes even more threatening. We also can't forget a defensive set, which allows you to reliably set up Stealth Rock. Tirtouga is definitely a threat so how do we stop this beast?
  15. apt-get

    apt-get I'll treasure that moment as I smiled, when I wasn't alone
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2012
    Messages:
    635
    Scarf MB drilbur?
    Well, sturdy+hail is nice too.
    Eviolite mixkrow lures it in and HP grass for sturdy and then hail.

    Honestly, it's impossible to always beat it. Shroom/foongus? Icebeam. Lileep? Superpower. Gunk? EQ. Ferro? HP fire.
  16. Rowan

    Rowan not a professor
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,612
    Mold Breaker Drilbur works because I always try to set up on it before realising it breaks through sturdy :(
    The best counter no doubt is Ferroseed. It can KO through sturdy with Bullet Seed and takes nothing from any common move at +2.
    Croagunk is probably the second best counter only really fearing the rare Earthquake. Fake Out breaks sturdy then it can Drain Punch or Vacuum Wave for the KO. (Vacuum Wave has a chance to OHKO after Fake Out at -1)
    Lileep can take it on 1v1 pretty easily as well. Although if there are any users named Electrolyte that seem to like Liechi Berry Tirtouga it actually has to be at full health or Sturdy has to be broken for it to be beaten. If rocks are up in that situation it has a chance to lose.
  17. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte Fastest man alive
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,047
    This thing is really powerful once it sets up; few things can stop it. If you let it set up yet retain its 100% HP, you're pretty much fucked. However, there are a few ways to deal with this beast. I've been using it and it's one of the most powerful sweepers that I've ever used.

    Grass-types: Ferroseed is the main answer here, as it resists all of Tirtouga's attacks and can hit past Sturdy with Bulket Seed. Lileep is also a great answer because it is immune to Water-type attacks and has the best defense out of all of them. Shroomish and Foongus work well too. They all have the bulk to take a +2 Stone Edge and OHKO with Giga Drain or shut it down with Spore. Stone Edge only does ~60-80% max to each, so it's not too tough. Just don't let it boost too much.

    Scarfers: Tirtouga is really slow, so some faster Scarfers such as Murkrow, Mienfoo, or Chinchou can outspeed it and defeat it. The catch here is that they must be fast and bulky enough to take a +2 Aqua Jet, or a +2 Aqua Tail / Stone Edge AND an Aqua Jet if Sturdy is still intact.

    Physically defensive pokemon: Hippopotas, Bronzor, and Slowpoke come to mind here. They have bulk / resistances that allow them to take a hit and reply back. However, if they're weakened, they can not work.

    Fighting-types- Croagunk is the main one- immune to Water and resistant to Rock, it can take many hits, and simple heal back with Drain Punch and then Vacuum Wave. The damage it sustains is relatively little too as it can heal it off with Drain Punch. Evio Mienfoo can take a +2 Aqua Tail iirc (though maybe not) and KO with Fake Out + Drain Punch. Timburr and Machop have the bulk to take Aqua Tails and KO with Fighting type STAB.

    So, the trick is to break its Sturdy before you try to counter it as that makes it a lot easier to handle, and the loss of one pokemon could prevent the loss of your whole team, if you lack the above counters / checks.

    And @ above: I have absolutely never seen Superpower, Ice Beam, or HP Fire. If it carries those, it lacks priority / water STAB / rock STAB, so you can just switch to a different counter. EQ is also very rare, I don't think I've seen it more than once, ever.
  18. Rowan

    Rowan not a professor
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,612
    Actually as Electrolyte brought up Scarfers, Axew is a very notable Scarfer that can beat it. It packs a resistance to Aqua Jet and can KO Tirtouga with Superpower at -1 through Sturdy thanks to Mold Breaker. Murkrow isn't the best example as Aqua Jet does a minimum of 80% at +2 so it KOs after Stealth Rock. Scarfoo and Scarfchou also can't beat it if Sturdy is intact.

    Having a Snover is a big help against Sturdy as Hail obviously will defeat it when it only has 1HP.
  19. dcae

    dcae naughty list

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,169
    Tirtouga is easily one of the most threatening pokes in the meta, and the best Shell Smasher. After a setup that thing wrecks face. In my experience, a very solid counter is Lileep. It can take Tirtouga's Rock move and KO back with Gigs Drain. Also mentioned previously was Ferroseed, resisting all moves and KOing back with Bullet Seed. Regarding Scarfers, its better to knock a bit of damage onto Tirtouga while ot's setting up, then revenge it with a Scarfer.
    Tirtouga used to be huge threat to my old team, but since I've added Chinchou, I've had less problems. Chincchou can take its attacks and KO back like Lileep. Overall, one of the deadliest sweepers in LC.
  20. The Unlucky one

    The Unlucky one

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2012
    Messages:
    996
    Finally finished the OP compendium for checks and counters for the VOTW mons so try and check it out! Shoutout to Corkscrew who helped me out with that!
  21. The Unlucky one

    The Unlucky one

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2012
    Messages:
    996
    So week 9 is an interesting one. I actually need more ideas actually for threats. The rest of the mons now are rather straight forward. You may place any suggetions here. Will update the compendium soon.

    [​IMG]

    Riolu
    40 HP / 70 Atk / 40 Def / 35 SpA / 40 SDef / 60 Spe
    Abilities: Steadfast / Inner Focus / Prankster (DW)


    The sad part about Riolu is that no matter how many abilities they give him that will stop him from flinching, he will still probably flinch as everyone ditches those abilities for Prankster. Prankster Riolu is an unique pokemon in the current meta that allows it to be a great revenge killer or an annoying Phazer. It has an amazing combination of Prankster+Copycat which allows it to mimic opponent's attacks at blazing speed or even his own. This works exceptionally well with the move Roar, which allows him to use priority phazing. It is really hard to counter this threat because every counter is absolutely situational and in the hands of a good player, you will be really hard-pressed handling it. So now the main question is, how do you beat Riolu?
  22. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte Fastest man alive
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,047
    OK I don't have much time but here are some ideas that I prolly will add onto later. I'm an avid player of Riolu as most of you know, and here are some pokemon that give me an upset stomach when I play with the little jackal:

    Poison types: These are Riolu's biggest enemy. They can tank both Drain Punch and Crunch without flinching and can even Toxic / status the Roar set to give it a timer. Grimer, Foongus, and even Croagunk all hard counter Riolu, since Grimer can poison it, Foongus can shut it down with Spore, and Croagunk can interrupt Copycat with Fake Out / Vacuum Wave.

    Flying types: these guys are next on the list of things that threaten Riolu. Most of them can OHKO or at least 2HKO with their STABs, and they resist Riolu's Fighting type STAB. Murkrow stands out here, as it can use Sucker Punch and its own Prankster to mess up Riolu's Copycat chain, and it can easily OHKO with Brave Bird. However, weakened Murkrows without priority have to watch out, as they might be picked off by Riolu's Copycat priority. Natu is another great counter as it's only 3HKOd by Crunch and can FeatherDance+Roost stall.

    Bug types: They resist Riolu's Drain Punch, but they are shaky checks because they can't do much in return. Larvesta is really the only one that actually poses a threat, but it's still a great counter, as it can hit Riolu hard with Flare Blitz or simply just burn it. It doesn't exactly like facing the Roar set, however, as Stealth Rock really hurts. Luckily, the Roar set shouldn't be isn't popular.

    Ghost types: They don't really like Crunch but if you can switch in on Protect or Drain Punch Ghost types can defeat Riolu. Misdreavus is a decent check; however, take note that Crunch 2HKOs Missy, so be sure not to switch into it. Drifloon can also counter Riolu relatively easily; Acrobatics is an OHKO and it doesn't really care about Protect because Riolu's Acro is weak as shit lol.

    Water types: Bulky water types such as Chinchou or Frillish can wall Riolu. Chinchou can sponge anything and everything Riolu has and even Heal Bell off a Toxic, should Riolu carry it. Chinchou can 2HKO with Hydro Pump or simply just burn with Scald- all the while shrugging off Drain Punches, which only deal 25-33%. Frillish also falls under this category as it has the bulk to take 2 Crunches and survive- and it can burn Riolu too, crippling it for the rest of the match.

    Basically, the trick is to either hard wall it or out-offense it. Other physically defensive pokemon such as Hippopotas or Bronzor can also tackle Riolu if they have a good amount of health.
  23. dcae

    dcae naughty list

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,169
    I also want to put in hard defensive walls as options to counter it, such as Hippowdown, thanks to its great physical defense, it easily takes Drain Punch from Riolu and takes it out with a couple Earthquakes.

    In general, fast/bulky, hard-hitting attackers that can one-shot it without being hurt by their move in return through Protect + Copycat do a wonderful job of checking Riolu, such as Chinchou or Drifloon, which can both take it out with a strong move while not fearing their own move being used back at them.
  24. The Unlucky one

    The Unlucky one

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2012
    Messages:
    996
    Week 9 really got little responses. I guess it was sorta hard and complex one I guess so let's just move on to Week 10! I really need to update the compendium

    [​IMG]

    Riolu
    68 HP / 72 Atk / 78 Def / 38 SpA / 42 SDef / 32 Spe
    Abilities: Sand Stream / Sand Force (DW)


    Hippopotas is a wall to be reckoned with in the LC metagame. Hippopotas has this massive physical bulk along with Eviolite that allows him to setup SR on and Phaze some of the most dangerous sweepers in the metagame such as SubRoost Murkrow. It also has a lot of longevity thanks to its access to Slack Off. This is not all that Hippopotas does. What probably is his biggest threatening asset is the ability to summon infinite Sandstorm. This allows Hippopotas to give Pokemon like Lileep a 1.5x boost in Special Defense and doubles the Speed of Drilbur/Sandshrew. So the question is, how do you stop Hippopotas? It's definitely not this way.
  25. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte Fastest man alive
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,047
    GRASS TYPES:
    Grass-types are probably a few of the best counters to Hippopotas out there. They all resist / are neutral to its only common attack move, Earthquake, and have the bulk to shrug off the rarer Ice Fang as well. They can all 2HKO Hippo with their Grass-type STAB atttacks, and often carry support moves that allow them to set up on Hippo and also make it tough for the opponent to switch out as well. Here are some notable ones:

    ~Shroomish: The best counter to Hippopotas, as it doesn't give a flying fuck about anything Hippo has. Toxic? Thanks, now your Sand won't be as annoying. EQ? Deals less than 25%, and can easily be healed off by Giga Drain, which does around 70% to Hippo. Whirlwind? Just Giga Drain it so that the incoming teammate can easily take it down later. Shroomish hard walls Hippo, and is an excellent answer to it. Its Spore also makes it tough for its opponents to switch out, lets their Shroomish counter be shut down.

    ~Cottonee: Taunt it to shut Hippo down ore Encore its Stealth Rock and set up. It also easily shrugs off EQ, can use Sub to block Toxic, and has Leech Seed that will slowly sap Hippo's HP. Some even carry Toxic which makes the stalling orocess even faster. As long as it comes against anything but Toxic, it can always force Hippo out.

    ~Foongus: Same boat as Shroomish. It's immune to Poison, 2HKOs with Giga Drain, and can shut Hippo down with Spore. Its Regenerator ability lets it escape the whole ordeal with often nothing more than a scratch. It takes a bit more from EQ but heals it all off with Regen + Giga Drain. It takes a bit more from EQ but can recover it off with Giga Drain + Regenerator.

    ~Snover: It can take any hit and OHKO with Blizzard. It also erases Hippo's Sand, and can heal itself with Giga Drain or Leech Seed. If Hippo gets up Rocks, however, it might be tougher to switch in frequently. Snover also does a nice job screwing up the momentum of Sand teams, since Hippo can't be switched in immediately after to put Sand back up.

    Other cool Grass-type counters are Lileep, Ferroseed, and Deerling, who perform similarly to Shroomish / Foongus when they counter Hippo.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)