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Project Victim of the Week -- Week 3 (Nominations)

Discussion in 'RarelyUsed' started by Spirit, May 20, 2014.

  1. Spirit

    Spirit
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    Victim Of The Week: RU Edition

    [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG]

    What's this thread for?

    Now that the dust has finally settled, the purpose of this thread is to take an in-depth look at top-tier, metagame defining threats and find viable checks or counters (preferably the ladder) that can fit on one's team. This thread is also a good tool to discuss how you've been able to handle a certain threat without having a dedicated counter to it. Discussing ways to play around a certain Pokemon outside of dedicating a teamslot for it is also encouraged.

    How this thread will be run:

    Every week, as the title implies, I'll post a certain Pokemon with several (or just one) viable set that it can run. To participate in this thread, you post a Pokemon that you believe best counters (or checks if counters are a bit tricky) the one in question with a specific set for said counter. You're free to comment on the Pokemon that others have posted and share with everyone how effective of a counter/check that Pokemon is/isn't or if such a set that someone shared might need some tweaks here and there to be really effective.

    In general, this thread may be used to discuss the Pokemon in question and your experiences with it. You're free to post replays showing how well it worked out in practice as well as common obstacles that have kept it from accomplishing its intended goal. Also, keep in mind that just because a particular Pokemon might be a better counter to the current "victim of the week", it shouldn't deter you from posting other effective answers you found, as it would be helpful to others to be aware of more than one good counter-measure. For the sake of maintaining a sense of focus in this thread, it's primary application is listed in the paragraph below. This is just to let you all know that this thread isn't just limited to the nominations/voting process!

    The first stage of the thread will be the nomination stage. This is where you post what Pokemon you believe counters the one in question. This stage will last for five days and will also include some general discussion on the "victim of the week." The second stage is the voting stage where you vote for the counter that best takes on the victim; this stage will last for the remaining two days. Once that's over, I'll post another "victim" and it's a rinse repeat sorta deal from there. Note that the time lapses aren't set in stone per say, it really depends on the given activity of the thread.

    Some concepts to keep in mind:

    Know the difference between a check and a counter before you post your set! Counter is a very strong word and typically used to denote a Pokemon that can safely switch into all viable sets for a certain threat and either force it out or take it out while being able to do this consistently throughout the match. For instance, Slowking may be called a counter to Cobalion due to the fact that it meets that criteria. An example of a check is Gligar being a good answer to Rhyperior, where it can typically switch into most of its sets, but runs the risk of being taken down by a certain coverage move (Ice Punch).
    Last edited: May 22, 2014
    TRC and Kevun like this.
  2. Spirit

    Spirit
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    Now, without further ado, your first victim of the week is......
    [​IMG]
    Delphox is easily one of the most powerful offensive threats in the RU metagame and has established itself as a fantastic sweeper and wallbreaker due to its great coverage, speed, and power. Delphox can run viable choice sets and a very destructive offensive Calm Mind set. Below, you'll find the list of viable sets that Delphox typically runs. Use these as footholds when posting a viable check/counter.

    Delphox @ Life Orb
    Ability: Blaze
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
    Timid Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Fire Blast
    - Psychic / Psyshock
    - Grass Knot

    Delphox @ Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
    Ability: Blaze
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
    Timid Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Grass Knot
    - Psychic
    - Switcheroo
    TRC likes this.
  3. Expulso

    Expulso

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    slowking reserved

    [​IMG]
    Slowking @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 160 SpA / 96 SpD
    Modest Nature
    ~ Scald
    ~ Psyshock
    ~ Fire Blast
    ~ Dragon Tail

    By now, I'm sure you all know of this set. Assault Vest, when used in tandem with Regenerator, affords a Pokemon excellent special bulk and fairly reliable recovery. It is the most viable Pokemon to resist both of Slowking's STABs, and an excellent Pokemon overall. The EV spread allows Slowking to OHKO Delphox with Scald after SR damage; the rest is put into HP and special bulk. Dragon Tail phazes out CM variants. However, the thing that really sets it apart from other checks is Regenerator, which lets it regain most of its health by simply switching out, letting Slowking counter Delphox throughout the match.

    In addition, Slowking's most powerful move against is is this: 252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 136-160 (34.5 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock. It can regain most of that HP by simply switching out, letting the Slowking check Delpox throughout the match.

    In concousion, (AV) Slowking is an extremely viable Pokemon that counters Delphox very well. Thanks!
    Last edited: May 21, 2014
  4. GlassGlaceon

    GlassGlaceon * R E A C H U P H I G H E R *
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    reserving Grumpig

    (Note: This is extremely niche and should be only used if ur desperate)
    [​IMG]
    W0t does teh fox say? The fox be sayin,"ay yo help me this man screwed me up" when im done with 'im m8 (Grumpig) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Thunder Wave
    - Taunt
    - Whirlwind
    - Psyshock

    Specially defensive grumpig is a good stop to delphox. mostly because of the fact that delphox's most powerful move against it, Psyshock, is only a 4HKO from Timidspecs.
    Now this mon is extremely um...situational. it's niche can usually be performed better overall by meloetta, but in this case, grumpug shines through, being able to take fire blasts a heck of a lot better than meloetta. it forces out most psychic types and has the utility moves in taunt and twave, and heal beel is to try to make him some sort of a semi-cleric o3o
    Last edited: May 20, 2014
  5. lrode

    lrode

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    reserving Bouffalant
  6. The Lucky Absol

    The Lucky Absol

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    [​IMG]
    Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Arena Trap
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Sucker Punch
    - Reversal
    - Stealth Rock/stone edge

    This is the classic Dugtrio trapper set. What makes Duggy so great for dealing with Delphox is because of arena trap. Since it can't switch out, your opponent can do nothing but watch helplessly as their fox gets taken down. The sash guarantees you can switch in if needed, as long as there are no hazards on the field. Adamant nature outspeeds timid Delphox by 2 points, so it can outright outspeed and OHKO the specs and life orb sets with earthquake. The scarf set is a bit trickier, you rely on the sash in order to guarantee you win. However, sucker punch does 60% at worst, so if the Delphox has some damage already done to it, there is a chance you can take it out then and there.

    It isn't a counter like Slowking, but the almost guaranteed removal of Delphox is always nice.
  7. EonX

    EonX @TheEonX
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    Slowking is the most reliable answer, but this one is p. good too:

    [​IMG]
    Meloetta @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 248 HP / 192 SAtk / 68 SDef
    Nature: Modest
    - Hyper Voice
    - Psyshock
    - Shadow Ball / Focus Blast
    - Knock Off / U-turn​

    So, why AV Meloetta to deal with Delphox you ask? Simple. It isn't 2HKOed by any move and can OHKO with Shadow Ball after Rocks and 1 layer of Spikes. Obviously, you're going to need Wish support to help Meloetta recover from the encounter, but considering there are so few Delphox answers that aren't screwed by Switcheroo, this is a fairly decent option. Shadow Ball isn't fully necessary as Hyper Voice still 2HKOes Delphox, so Focus Blast is still a neat option to hit Steel-types trying to get cute and wall you. The last slot gives extra protection against certain sets. Knock Off protects yourself against CM Delphox. It will do 45% minimum, which is still enough to KO +1 Delphox after Rocks in conjunction with Hyper Voice. U-turn is nice for scouting and if Meloetta gets handed a Choice Specs, (or Scarf!) she isn't complete Pursuit bait. Here's relevant calcs:

    calcs (open)

    252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 68 SpD Assault Vest Meloetta: 126-148 (31.2 - 36.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 111-131 (27.5 - 32.5%) -- 81.4% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Grass Knot (20 BP) vs. 248 HP / 68 SpD Assault Vest Meloetta: 16-19 (3.9 - 4.7%) -- possibly the worst move ever. lmao
    +1 252 SpA Life Orb Delphox Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 68 SpD Assault Vest Meloetta: 164-192 (40.6 - 47.6%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock. Scary, but observe:
    +1 252 SpA Delphox Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 68 SpD Assault Vest Meloetta: 126-148 (31.2 - 36.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock. Knock Off saves you.
    +1 252 SpA Life Orb Delphox Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 144-170 (35.7 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
    Meloetta on offense:

    192+ SpA Meloetta Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Delphox: 182-216 (62.3 - 73.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
    192+ SpA Meloetta Hyper Voice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Delphox: 153-181 (52.3 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    0- Atk Meloetta Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Delphox: 134-158 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    192+ SpA Meloetta Hyper Voice vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Delphox: 102-121 (34.9 - 41.4%) -- 69.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock. Knock Off + Hyper Voice = dead CM Delphox and living Meloetta


    So, is AV Meloetta a check or a counter? I wouldn't classify AV Meloetta as an outright counter as Delphox can overwhelm her after a couple of switch-ins, but she is a hard check. If Delphox doesn't switch out and tries to push through Meloetta, it will lose. However, you will need to support Meloetta with Wish Support if you want Meloetta to keep coming in on Delphox through the entire match. She isn't a counter, but she's a damn good check that can avoid being crippled by Switcheroo, unlike most Delphox answers that aren't named Slowking, and still beat the CM set.
    Last edited: May 21, 2014
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  8. Ohioisonfire

    Ohioisonfire

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    Reserving Zoroark, please.
    EDIT:
    Zoroark @ Choice Band/Life Orb
    Jolly Nature
    -Trick
    -U-Turn
    -Night Slash/Knock Off
    -(Some special move in case Delphox has Choice Specs)/Low Sweep/Sucker Punch

    Now here's what you all must be thinking. What do you mean Zoroark is a counter? It gets almost OHKO'ed by Delphox's Fire Blast! I'm not saying this is a counter. It's mainly a Check, but this VERY UNIQUE Zoroark set can completely screw over Delphox if it gets the chance. I've never seen Physical Zoroark being mentioned (And my entire existence is to use under rated/never used Pokemon sets to mess with peoples' minds ._.), and as long as Zoroark switches in against Delphox on a free turn, Zoroark outspeeds (By one speed point!) and is able to Trick a Choice Band onto Delphox, which it has no use for, or simply outspeed and OHKO with Knock Off or Sucker Punch.

    Again, this set is criminally underused, and it honestly bothers me. This is a very nice check to Choice Specs Delphox. I honestly haven't used Zoroark that often, so I hope this is ok. ._.
    Last edited: May 22, 2014
  9. lrode

    lrode

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    presenting the most godawful Bouffalant set ever made:

    Buffaslow (Bouffalant) @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Sap Sipper
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Head Charge
    - Megahorn
    - Stone Edge

    the gist: come in on a grass knot/calm mind, click earthquake, win

    calcs: 252 SpA Delphox Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Bouffalant: 139-165 (41.9 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    +1 252 Atk Bouffalant Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Delphox: 382-450 (130.8 - 154.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  10. Expulso

    Expulso

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    I fail to see how this either checks or counters Delphox.
    252 SpA Delphox Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Bouffalant: 171-202 (51.6 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    Even with Timid, Choice Scarf Delphox can outspeed and 2HKO it with Fire Blast no matter what. (Actually about a 72% chance due to Fire Blast's shaky accuracy)

    252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Bouffalant: 255-301 (77 - 90.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
    Yeah...I don't really see this working; all it can do is revenge non-Scarf variants.
  11. Kevun

    Kevun

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    First of all, there is honestly no reason at all to run Night Slash over Knock Off, so I'd recommend changing that. Also, I don't really see the benefit in using a Choice Band to check Delphox, as Zoro can already outspeed and OHKO it with Knock Off, or revenge kill scarfed versions with Sucker Punch. Banded Zoroark may not be a bad idea, but I just don't see the reason to use it as a Delphox check.
  12. lrode

    lrode

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    okay. reserving kecleon
  13. lrode

    lrode

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    kekleon (Kecleon) @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Protean
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Adamant Nature
    - Drain Punch
    - Power-Up Punch
    - Sucker Punch
    - Shadow Sneak


    the gist: sucker punch for choice and shadow sneak for cm. maybe pup if you are a prediction wizard. win.

    calcs: 252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Kecleon: 115-136 (35.4 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252+ Atk Protean Kecleon Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Delphox: 294-348 (100.6 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  14. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas NIPPLE BLADES OF FURY
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    Yeah, a lot of the good counters have been talked about already, mainly Slowking and Meloetta of the assault vest variety, which can switch into any move with little trouble, not even minding getting tricked Choice Specs (Slowking probably wants to avoid the scarf though ;3). I have found that the best way to deal with it on offensive teams is to avoid having too many pokemon that it can win with 1v1, and keeping up Stealth Rock. Choiced sets are really easy to deal with, as long as you have some good prediction, as well as a decently bulky Fire-resist which are pretty easy to fit onto offensive teams (Rhyperior and Druddigon come to mind first). The LO set is pretty hard to switch into thanks to killer coverage, a good speed tier and the ability to switch moves, but if you are running a offensive team with nothing outspeeding Delphox, you are going to have a lot of problems.

    Some cool revenge killers / set up sweepers I think work especially well against Delphox include: Zoroark (faster and sucker punch), Samurott (can take any hit also has aqua jet), and many scarf pokemon (Delphox cannot beat itself though :( ). Basically, on defensive teams you are probably going to need a Slowking or Meloetta, while on offensive teams some good priority revenge killers and/or a decent choice scarf user. It is currently one of the top threats in the meta and definitely should be accounted for in team building.
  15. Spirit

    Spirit
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    Alright, so the incoming surge of sets seems to have died down, so I guess I'll start the voting a little sooner than expected.

    Your options are:

    Assault Vest Slowking
    Grumpig
    Dugtrio
    Assault Vest Meloetta
    Zoroark
    Assault Vest Kecleon

    Vote for one Pokemon only and bold it once you do so.

    Pick the Pokemon that you believe is the best check/counter.

    Remember to evaluate the following characteristics when making your choice:

    How well does it beat the Pokemon in question; how effective is it outside of this given role; and how easy it is to fit on a team.
  16. Hoping4megasceptile

    Hoping4megasceptile

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    Assault Vest Slowking
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  17. Kevun

    Kevun

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    Assault Vest Slowking

    Hate to vote for the boring option, but this thing just walls Delphox all day, without support at all, and doesn't even need to change anything from its regular AV set to do so.
    Expulso likes this.
  18. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
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    Assault Vest Slowking
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  19. Expulso

    Expulso

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    Assault Vest Meloetta is probably the best option outside Slowking :)
  20. galbia

    galbia Sorry you are not a winner
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    AV King
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  21. The Immortal

    The Immortal Administrator of Showdown!
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    Assault Vest Slowking
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  22. GlassGlaceon

    GlassGlaceon * R E A C H U P H I G H E R *
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    Assault Vest Slowking
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  23. MikeDawg

    MikeDawg keep calm; ban everything
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    Assault Vest Slowking
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  24. EonX

    EonX @TheEonX
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    Assault Vest Slowking. I love AV Meloetta, but there's no way in hell it's a better option to beat Delphox than AV King.
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  25. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    AV King
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