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Victini (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by SJCrew, Feb 26, 2011.

  1. SJCrew

    SJCrew Believer, going on a journey...
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    [​IMG]
    http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-bw/494.shtml

    [Overview]
    <p>Victini is a curious case of an awesome concept with a few crippling flaws. On the bright side, its claim to fame as a Fire-type legend lies within its exclusive exclusive ability, Victory Star, which raises the accuracy of all of its moves by 10%, a diverse learnset to take advantage of it, and the insanely powerful V-create. On the other hand, it faces some very stiff competition for the role of an offensive Fire-type in OU, and its weaknesses to the ubiquitous Stealth Rock and Earthquake leave its defensive merits much to be desired. All things considered, while Victini may not be the fastest or strongest little guy in town, it has more than a few handy tricks up its sleeve and is very capable of hanging with big shots of OU. Be on your toes should you ever suffer the misfortune of encountering one.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physical Attacker
    move 1: V-create
    move 2: Fusion Bolt
    move 3: Brick Break
    move 4: U-turn / Zen Headbutt
    item: Choice Band / Life Orb
    ability: Victory Star
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>This set goes to show that the key to becoming a wallbreaking powerhouse is, quite literally, a giant, flaming V-symbol. V-create stands as the strongest attack in Victini's arsenal at a towering 180 base power, and is one of the many reasons Victini is difficult to switch into. For example, Latios, an otherwise flawless Victini counter, has trouble switching in on a Choice Banded V-Create, and is looking at a pretty good chance of being OHKOed after Stealth Rock damage if Victini is running an Adamant nature. Tyranitar, another common check to Victini, has a good chance of being 2HKOed by the very same attack while running a bulky spread with 252 HP EVs. Even Salamence finds itself losing over half of its HP if it attempts to switch in.</p>

    <p>As powerful as V-create is, it does come with one very crippling setback: the user's Speed and defenses will lower immediately after use. Walls like Hippowdon or Porygon-2 might not be outspeeding it any time soon, but this is definitely a concern with bulky offensive Pokemon. The most common of these include Rotom-W, Dragonite, Hydreigon, and Salamence, all of which can take at least one hit (albeit not well), outspeed, and KO it.</p>

    <p>The rest of its moves make their home on this set for the sole purpose of augmenting coverage for anything V-create might fail to KO. Fusion Bolt covers bulky Water-types, while Brick Break hits Heatran and Tyranitar, and U-turn scouts predicted switches, wears down counters, and keeps matchups in your favor. Zen Headbutt, while weaker than V-create in most cases, is useful as an alternative STAB to hit slower Pokemon neutral or weak to it without having to lower Victini's stats.</p>

    [Additional Comments]
    <p>Choosing a nature is probably the most difficult decision you can make with regards to this set. If you are focused purely on tearing through defensive threats, and causing as much immediate damage as possible, an Adamant nature is your friend. It may, however, soon prove to be your downfall when facing a Salamence, Hydregion, or Haxorus running max Speed.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Special Sweeper
    move 1: Searing Shot / Fire Blast
    move 2: Thunder / Thunderbolt
    move 3: Focus Blast
    move 4: Psychic
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Victory Star
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>This is your quintessential special attacking Victini set, making full use of the coverage and movepool options its fellow Fire-type brethren lack. Searing Shot is Victini’s primary STAB attack, deterring almost anything that isn't immune to a burn from switching in due to its 30% secondary effect rate. Fire Blast takes advantage of the accuracy bonus, raising its accuracy to a more acceptable 93.5%, and can be used over Searing Shot, should you find yourself dissatisfied with the damage output.</p>

    <p>Thunder's accuracy may not make it such an attractive option at first glance, but Victory Star alleviates this concern somewhat. Victini can usually afford the accuracy drop for the extra power, as it packs the punch necessary to 2HKO bulky Water types such as Jellicent, Suicune, and Vaporeon that Thunderbolt might normally miss. Still, if reliability is your primary concern, Thunderbolt can be used instead. Focus Blast is non-negotiable, as it eliminates both Heatran and the ever-prevalent Tyranitar, the latter of which can put Victini in a checkmate position with Pursuit.</p>

    <p>Last but not least, Psychic rounds off coverage as Victini's secondary STAB, which can be used to check the likes of Conkeldurr, Machamp, and other bulky Fighting-types, threatening to OHKO before they can cause too much damage. Tentacruel is 2HKOed as well, mitigating the need to rely on weaker or less accurate Electric-type attacks to keep it at bay.</p>

    [Additional Comments]
    <p>This set doesn't need much support to function well. Sun support from Drought Ninetales helps Searing Shot secure guaranteed KOs on Virizion, Brozong, and Jirachi, but also forces Victini to switch to Thunderbolt, due to Thunder's decreased accuracy in Sun. It's also much easier said than done to put Ninetales and Victini on the same team, since the two share a lot of the same weaknesses, most notably Stealth Rock.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Final Gambit
    move 2: U-turn
    move 3: V-create
    move 4: Fusion Bolt
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Jolly
    ability: Victory Star
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Att / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>In a metagame without Explosion, this particular set can come as a real surprise to your opponent. While Final Gambit may have its flaws, perhaps the greatest of which is its dependency on the user's health, it also has plenty of strategic merit. First off, the amount of damage Final Gambit does is set based on HP. At 404 HP, Victini is capable of eliminating a vast majority of OU's Pokemon, meaning that unless Victini fails to land its attack, you should expect a KO from this set almost every match.</p>

    <p>One of the best ways to play this set is as an early-to-mid game scout. If the lead match-up is unfavorable, U-turn out and wait for another opportunity. Try to avoid matching up with Tyranitar, though, since a slower Pursuit can catch a U-turn user before it switches out for full damage. If hazards are not up, Victini can continue to do this until you've trapped your opponent into a position where they will lose something important no matter what they do.</p>

    <p>This can be a strategic boon if used properly, but keep in mind that you only get one shot, and if Victini misses its target, or uses it as a Ghost-type switches in, you are left without a Victini. Still, this set can disrupt the synergy of any good team by forcing your opponent to choose which Pokemon they want to sacrifice, and create just the right opening for another dangerous team member.</p>

    [Additional Comments]
    <p>Blissey and Jellicent are this set's worst enemies; Blissey has no problem taking a Final Gambit with its massive base HP, while Jellicent is immune. The best way to handle either would be to keep momentum against them by predicting their switches with U-turn, and trap them with a Tyranitar or Dugtrio while they're at sufficiently low health. Pursuit users in general go a long way to ensuring that you do not sacrifice your Victini needlessly on any Ghost-type your opponent may carry. Rapid Spin users also make good teammates for Victini to keep Final Gambit from weakening as it loses health on each switch-in.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Support
    move 1: Will-O-Wisp
    move 2: Taunt
    move 3: Focus Blast
    move 4: Psychic / Fire Blast
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Victory Star
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 4 SpAtk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>While Victini is mainly an offensive Pokemon, it has great bulk, useful resistances, and feasible support value. One of its key perks is the improved accuracy of Will-O-Wisp, which Victory Star raises to a solid 82.5%. Most of Victini's checks don't appreciate being worn down by burn damage, especially ones that rely on Substitute or use physical attacks. Garchomp, Terrakion, and Landorus are all punished on the switch-in, and walls are further hindered by Taunt, denying them any healing or setup opportunities. Tyranitar is not an issue as far as this set is concerned unless it runs Choice Scarf or something unorthodox like Lum Berry. Blissey and Chansey, common enemies to all special attackers, are also rendered completely useless and setup bait for any physical powerhouse on your team.</p>

    [Additional Comments]
    <p>The fourth slot can be used for almost anything you don't want to give a free turn to, but the options listed are the safest and optimal ways to take advantage of Victini's capabilities. Run Psychic if you want to check Fighting-types more efficiently, or use Fire Blast to handle Steel- and Grass-types.</p>

    <p>The EVs are for maximum bulk and maximum Speed. Once your opponent is aware of this set, its lack of offensive power could work against you; offensive powerhouses will have no problem switching in on Taunt or a resisted move. It would be advisable to carry an especially potent wall to cover anything you fail to catch on the switch-in with a burn, like Skarmory or Hippowdon.</p>

    [Other Options]
    <p>Victini has a whole host of other options, but can scarcely afford a move slot for them. Grass Knot, while less consistent in damage output, offers an alternative method for killing many bulky Water-types and contending with Tyranitar. Shadow Ball should only be used with Latios, Latias, and similar match-ups in mind, since its STAB Fire attacks or other coverage moves offer equal or more power in most cases. Psyshock allows special attacking sets to deal a decent amount of damage to Blissey, while Eviolite Chansey remains unfazed.</p>

    <p>At first glance, a Trick Room set houses one of the most attractive sweeping options Victini can run. V-create's high base power and ability to lower Victini's speed makes it a theoretical shoe-in for success. In reality, however, it is disappointingly difficult to work with. Even with a Brave nature and 0 Speed IVs, its base speed is far too high to get past some of the slower Pokemon that can move first and KO it while under the effects of Trick Room; Quagsire, Slowbro, and Hippowdon are just a few examples. Test it to your heart's content, but brace yourself for disappointment.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]
    <p>Victini's counters depend heavily on the type of set it's running. Specially offensive variants will be loathe to face down premier special walls Blissey and Chansey. Even with its large movepool, faster Dragon-types almost universally counter it, especially the likes of Latios and Latias. Physically-oriented Dragon-types should be cautious of switching in, as a burn from Searing Shot or Will-o-Wisp will render them ineffective.</p>

    <p>Physical sets are a hair trickier to deal with, due to V-create's absurd damage output. Salamence's Intimidate helps it check physical sets easier, but a Choice Band V-create will still deal close to half its HP in damage. Bulky Water-types can check it, provided they avoid switching into Fusion Bolt. Slowbro is a notable exception in this regard, as Regenerator allows it to lessen the risk of switching into the wrong move. Being weak to Pursuit also means Tyranitar with a Choice Scarf or Krookodile will remove it from the match when Victini is at sufficiently low on HP. A Choice Band Weavile will take it out for sure at -1 Defense and a round of Stealth Rock damage.</p>

    <p>Offensive powerhouses with super effective STAB attacks, like Landorus, Terrakion, and Excadrill, can easily scare it out. As long as you can keep Stealth Rock up and avoid being burned, securing and maintaining momentum against a Victini is a surefire way to defeat it.</p>
  2. thunderstone

    thunderstone

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    Maybe mention choice items? Would probably work well with Specs/Scarf...
  3. SJCrew

    SJCrew Believer, going on a journey...
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    This is WIP, so expect more sets to be added until I say otherwise in the OP.
  4. Bugbot

    Bugbot

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    You know you've encountered one before:

    [SET]
    name: The Ultimate Sacrifice
    move 1: Final Gambit
    move 2: U-turn
    move 3: [FILLER]
    move 4: [FILLER]
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Victory Star
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe


    Take out a Pokémon at the cost of your life. It can be EXTREMELY useful when scouting for potential threats or walls in the opponent's team in Team Preview. For example, if you want your Volcarona to sweep, but you noticed the opponent has a Heatran (thanks to Team Preview), lure the Heatran out then take it down. If used at max life, it takes out 404 HP, which is enough to succesfully OHKO Swampert and other base 100 Pokémon with 252 HP EVs. If the opposing Pokémon has more than 404 HP, U-turn out.

    To those who say this set is useless and can be replaced by an entirely new Pokémon that counters Heatran: it kills nearly every Pokémon, not a specific one. It also is a pretty rare set, so people may try to wall your "incoming Fire Blast" by sending out their Jellicent, which also has 404 HP, and gets KO'd.
  5. Trinitrotoluene

    Trinitrotoluene ᴜияᴇᴄᴏɢиɪsαβʟᴇ
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    I like the above set. Oh, and have you considered a physical Attacking Victini now that V-Create is legal on it?

    Edit: I just realized that V-Create is legal only on Victini from the 14th movie, which hasn't been released yet.
  6. ParaChomp

    ParaChomp

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    First we need proof that it was released but here's a quick set I came up with anyways.

    name: Physical Sweeper
    move 1:
    V-Create
    move 2: U-turn
    move 3: Reversal
    move 4: Zen Headbutt
    item: Focus Sash
    ability: Victory Star
    nature: Jolly
    evs:
    4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    With the drop in defences and speed, a Focus Sash is useful and paired with U-turn could work and you also have Reversal but there's the priority abuse this generation. With mention of the speed drop a Trick Room set is possible but not advisable.
  7. Bugbot

    Bugbot

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    V-Create works better with Choice Items. Remember Latios? He enjoys Choice Specs Draco Meteor. I would use something like this, similar to your set:

    name: Choiced Physical Sweeper
    move 1:
    V-Create / Flare Blitz
    move 2: U-turn
    move 3: Wild Charge
    move 4: Brick Break / Zen Headbutt / Return / Double Edge
    item:
    Choice Band / Choice Scarf
    ability: Victory Star
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs:
    4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    Brick Break for Heatran.
    Zen Headbutt for powerful STAB.
    Return / Double Edge for high base power moves, but poor coverage.
    Flare Blitz if the drops aren't your thing.
  8. SJCrew

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    I have the rest of the analysis open in Word right now, and Final Gambit is almost finished. A Support set is also being added. V-generate will be in the Dream World section until the event in which it is released occurs (four months from now). Once it does, Focus Sash will definitely not be a viable item. Choice Band takes top priority with Life Orb being slashed in. Until then, he has no merit as a physical attacker with Blaziken around.

    I should probably throw in the Support set right now, since I'm already done with it.
  9. SJCrew

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    Final Gambit is up. Choice Specs is out of the running, but there might be some merit in a Choice Scarf set. I need to run some tests.
  10. masterful

    masterful

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    A regular Scarf set seems quite apropo, don't you think? As with 100 speed becoming less useful in terms of "Outspeeding", a scarf set with Victini's access to powerful moves like Thunder seems very viable. And for the Death Gambit set, it seems that with Stealth Rock so common, it is rarely viable to be able to switch in and Death Gambit. Taking out one specific threat doesn't really require a move like Death Gambit, as with max SpA, a Life Orb Thunder could 2HKO Jellicent without the sacrifice of a poke.
  11. Omicron

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  12. SJCrew

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    Unlike traditional attack moves, Final Gambit requires no prediction to use and cuts right through defensive amplifiers. You don't have to worry about Stealth Rock in the lead position, but running Rapid Spin with this set would be a very good idea to open up your options to scouting, revenge killing with its STABs, and having a plan against your opponent's win condition.

    A conventional Scarf set is actually starting to seem like a good idea atm, only hang-up being that nasty Stealth Rock weakness. If I can get the right set going and a few good ladder matches on it, we're in business.
  13. Yogi Bear.

    Yogi Bear.

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    Flamethrower should only be used on Victini if the PP of Searing Flame is disappointing. Searing Flame only receives 5 PP (as does Fire Blast). That being said, Flamethrower receives 16 more PP after maxing out (24 Vs. 8). While Pressure Stallers and Spite Users are situational, keep in mind that if Victini plans to exist for more than 8 turns in battle, Flamethrower is preferred.
  14. SJCrew

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    Standard matches are fast-paced and Pokemon will die quickly unless they're stall team members or have recovery, neither of which apply to Victini. Flamethrower is not a useful option as far as this little guy is concerned.

    (I understand you guys like to point out the new name translations, but get a better guise first, lol)
  15. Yogi Bear.

    Yogi Bear.

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    Actually if was more killing two birds with one stone.

    And, yeah. I was thinking more of an other option, although none of the sets here (Especially the first one) will like the power and burn rate drop.
  16. PK Gaming

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    Hey there. Solid analysis SJCrew! I only have a few nitpicks.

    -Remove the Psycho Shock slash and give it an AC mention. Tentacrual is rare (and like you said, its 2HKOed by Psychic anyway) Victini is simply to weak to noticeably hurt Chansey/Blissey. Move Psycho Shock to AC, and mention that entry hazards are recommended when using Psycho Shock.

    -Remove the Substitute slash on the support set. I don't really see how Substitute is useful for anything (and its counterproductive with that SR weakness) Psychic should get the main slash on the support set. The ability to check Roopushin & Blaziken is invaluable. Focus Blast can hit steel types anyway.

    QC APPROVED (1/3)
  17. SJCrew

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    I was still in the process of investigating the Choice Scarf set, but the analysis is good enough as it is that it might be superfluous. I'll continue to look into it regardless, on the grounds that this does not affect its QC approval.
  18. Omicron

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    Is choice specs viable or is it outclassed? And perhaps substitute is worth a mention on the Special Attacker set?
  19. SJCrew

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    I'm not exactly thrilled at the idea of a Specs Fire Blast coming from 100 base Sp. Att, and it'll be much harder to punish its checks when you have to predict perfectly just to beat them. Consider how poor Victini's 2-move coverage is, and how vital every one of its moves are to ensuring the effectiveness of the Special Sweeper set. Then consider Tyranitar coming in any time you want to use Fire Blast or Psychic. Would you rather spam Focus Blast all match even when your overprediction could cost you, or would you rather be able to switch moves and respond to slower defensive threats appropriately with the same amount of wallbreaking potential?

    Victini's slight boost in power won't make it any better at its job, as it's just a prediction hassle that isn't alleviated by its modest attacking power. Life Orb fits the bill perfectly.
  20. madgenius2013

    madgenius2013

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    Is there any talk about teammates here?
  21. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

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    Wow we all missed that.

    Probably some fighting types or scizor for that tyranitar labled 5 dozen times.
  22. SJCrew

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    Teammates is easy, I have plenty of teams with Victini on it. Expect that to be updated in a jiff.
  23. Bad Ass

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    I'll get back to this, but judging from Victini's movepool I expect that more sets will be added.
  24. SJCrew

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    This is a pretty consummate list of Victini's capabilities, and I've covered the options he should and shouldn't run throughout the analysis, for the most part. The only set on my radar right now is Choice Scarf, which should have an analysis written for it soon.

    Updated with Other Options for completion's sake.
  25. Mr._Rex

    Mr._Rex

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    That is a good way to use final gambit. I might use that set.

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