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Victini (Offensive Choice Scarf)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by AccidentalGreed, Aug 31, 2011.

  1. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Okay, this thing is so good, and it's currently one of the most effective and popular powerhouses on OU sunlight-based teams. This deserves to be on-site because it's one of the best things Victini can do.

    Also, posting a full moveset because of the Bait Landorus and Acrobatics Gliscor threads up. I hope this in turn doesn't cause trouble.

    Status: Done

    QC Approvals (3/3): (Delta 2777) (PK Gaming) (Wilson46)

    GP Approvals (2/2): (v0x) (NatGeo)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    [​IMG]

    Victini

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf (Offensive)
    move 1: V-create
    move 2: Fusion Bolt
    move 3: Brick Break
    move 4: U-turn
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>It comes as (hopefully) no surprise that Victini's ultimate weapon can often be its ultimate downfall, specifically because of V-create's unpleasant stat decreases. Consequently, Victini is prone to being revenge killed, despite the power its V-create brings. However, slapping a Choice Scarf on a physical Victini somewhat alleviates its problems, most notably nullifying the speed decrease and allowing Victini to use V-create two times in succession. Though using Choice Scarf means Victini won't be as powerful as it is in similar sets, it still has the offensive potential to 2HKO its previous counters in the sun. The goal of this set, conversely, is a bit different from that of the standard Physical Attacker; Victini should aim to outspeed and revenge kill faster threats rather than breaking walls regardless of resistances.</p>

    <p>Keep in mind that main appeal of this set is V-create, and the other moves should be used only if you haven't removed certain threats yet. U-turn is a more relevant move on this set, as it enables Victini to scout out its counters early-game and switch out for a better matchup. This should be used in conjunction with Team Preview to help eliminate counters Victini may fight against.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Victini has some attacks worth mentioning for this set over Brick Break or U-turn. In any event where Victini can't afford to use V-create, such as low PP or the stat decreases, Flare Blitz is an option for temporary consistency. Because of its increased speed, Victini also gains the ability to outspeed some Dragon Dance users, so Hidden Power Ice, with either a Hasty or Naive nature, can revenge kill the likes of Dragonite and Haxorus. Again, the nature of your choice depends on which opponents Victini is targeting specifically. In this set's case, a Jolly nature may prove to be the most productive choice, as it allows Victini to tie with opposing positive-natured base 100 Pokemon and achieve relevant KOs in the sun. Calculations are shown below to emphasize this point.</p>

    <ul class="damage_calculations">
    <li>V-create (Sun) vs. 4/0 Latios: 72.8% - 86.1%</li>
    <li>V-create (Sun) vs. 252/0 Latias: 54.9% - 64.8%</li>
    <li>V-create (Sun) vs. 4/0 Hydreigon: 61.3% - 72.4%</li>
    <i>V-create (Sun) vs. 4/0 Haxorus: 68% - 80.3%</li>
    <li>-1 V-create (Sun) vs. 4/0 Salamence: 44.1% - 52% (2HKO with Stealth Rock)</li>
    <li>V-create (Sun) vs. 252/216+ Jellicent: 42.8% - 50.5% (2HKO with layers of Spikes)</li>
    <li>V-create (Sun) vs. 4/0 Terrakion: 61.7% - 72.9%</li>
    </ul>

    <p>As far as team support is concerned, Drought Ninetales should be the first thing that comes to mind. As delineated above, Victini performs best in permanent sunlight, where it 2HKOes many of its previous counters by using its boosted V-create twice. Otherwise, Victini's power output may prove to be disappointing against some dedicated defensive threats, an area the Physical Attacker set can handle better (in any weather). Additionally, Ninetales can utilize certain status moves to cripple or shut down troublesome foes and opposing weather starters, allowing Victini to clean up thereafter.</p>

    <p>Seeing as Victini is vulnerable to all hazards, and will switch in and out of the battlefield often, using Rapid Spin support is highly advised. Therefore, Donphan's general effectiveness in sunlight or Forretress's defensive prowess may do the job for you. Moreover, employing teammates that can eliminate V-create buffers (Heatran, Gastrodon, and weather starters, to name a few who can take it) is nigh obligatory. Still, this is easier said than done, so luring these counters with U-turn and offensive support may be the best approach.</p>
  2. Shiki1335

    Shiki1335

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    If your urnning the CS set why not slash in Final Gambit/zen headbutt on the brick break.
  3. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    U-turn has more utility on a Choice Scarf set, and V-Create outdamages Zen Headbutt after STAB, simply put.

    There is also a Death Gambit + Choice Scarf set onsite, which is different from this one. Victini isn't under constant pressure of having to stay healthy for the sake of taking out a Pokemon.
  4. Omicron

    Omicron
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    Final Gambit is shit without HP investment, and if you run Zen Headbutt, Victini gets walled by Heatran. Though Adamant Brick Break fails to 2HKO 252/0 Heatran... (37%-44% iirc)
  5. SJCrew

    SJCrew Believer, going on a journey...
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    Like the ones that were faster prior to the Scarf and will KO you after the speed drop? x_x

    I already explained my reasons for why this isn't onsite. This set is way too easy to stop by offensive and defensive Pokemon without active Sunlight and is terrible for late-game cleanup because of the speed drops. Any time in which you'd want a Scarfed Victini, you'd prefer a Darmanitan instead because it has more power, better moves, isn't Pursuit-weak, and doesn't have to drop its speed to use its best move. Too many Pokemon in OU resist Fire for Victini not to have the power behind it in order to mitigate those stat drops. Darmanitan has better match-ups against literally everything.
  6. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Actually, yes. :S

    I know being unable to hit choice threats such as Tyranitar with V-Create sucks, and losing Speed drops isn’t exactly appealing when it gets a few chances. I also acknowledge that certain threats, especially weather abusers, pose a threat (hence the purpose of U-turn). Attacking with V-Create with Choice Scarf, however, seems to be one of the best things Victini can do for itself in comparison to other Pokémon, especially when so many targets end up near-dead. Taking a base 180 attack twice isn't funny. In my experience (and the incident of being beaten by Scarf Victini from opposing teams, which caused my attention to this set), I believe that warrants this set’s placement on-site.

    I could just as easily use the same last few reasons mentioned for avoiding Choice Band Victini (compared to any non-Scarf Darmanitan, for that matter).
  7. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
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    The Scarf Death Gambit set onsite should really have less speed and more Attack (enough to outrun base 130s would sound fair to me). Anyway yeah this looks good.

    QC Approved (1/3)
  8. SJCrew

    SJCrew Believer, going on a journey...
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    CB Victini doesn't become a liability after his speed loss. When defensive Pokemon come in on Victini, he can usually go again and KO. Some sweepers die right away to V-create even without the Sun active (like Latios). Try the same thing with the Scarf set and you will lose speed on the incoming Latios and fail to get the next hit off before he uses Surf or Draco Meteor. You can't 2HKO anything in defensive in neutral weather either.

    You might be enamored with this thing, but I almost guaranteed you that if you used Darmanitan instead, you would get more bang for your buck and not have problems doing his one and only job.
  9. Omicron

    Omicron
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    Well I think the difference from the Choice Band set is that it doesn't try to outright KO everything, but to punch large holes in the opposing team repeatedly. Because Victini holds a Choice Scarf, it can consistently outspeed faster threats, and is only threatened by Pursuit. Switching out Victini is perfectly fine.
  10. elDino

    elDino Deal With It.
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    Remember for GP that it's "V-create", not "V-Create".
  11. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    I think Flare Blitz should at least get an AC mention for the last slot if you want to avoid the Speed drop. V-create can be used to revenge kill the big scary threats, while Flare Blitz can be used for consistency.

    Hypothetical: Let's just say you see a Dugtrio on the opposing team with team preview, you can use Flare Blitz to revenge kill the Pokemon in front of you and avoid getting revenged yourself next turn by Dugtrio.

    It's also an option if you see that the rest of your opponent's team can be swept, you can send in Victini and use Flare Blitz to kill the rest of their team instead of losing Speed every time. This could be especially good if you have the sun up.
  12. Omicron

    Omicron
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    Though the problem with Flare Blitz is that there is no point in using Victini over Darminitan if you aren't gonna smash shit with V-create.

    EDIT: Woops misread your post, Shrang, an AC mention would be fine IMO.
  13. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Yeah, Flre Blitz is fine in AC. Chanazn is right on the spot as well.
  14. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    I think offensive CS Victini is different enough from CS Darmanitan and it warrants a set. While I feel that Darmanitan is better because Flare Blitz lets it sweep, Victini is bulkier, ever so slightly stronger and lacks recoil from its main attack

    QC APPROVED (2/3)
  15. SlimMan

    SlimMan

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    Um... no.
    Using that "normalized base stats" thing in the articles section, I've determined that for Darmanitan 140+50=190 and then 190*156 (Sheer Force boost)= 29640.
    And then for Victini 100+50=150 and then 150*180= 27000.
    So Darmanitan would do more damage. I'm new to calculating this sort of thing, so I ran a damage calc against 4/0/0 Azumarill (it has equal defenses) to confirm and make sure I didn't screw up.
    Darmanitan: 47.1%-55.6%
    Victini: 43.0%-50.6%

    tl;dr
    Victini is still weaker than Darmanitan, PK.
  16. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    I forgot about the Sheer Force boost. Despite being weaker, its noticeably bulkier and it has that Psychic typing to fall on. (yes it makes it pursuit weak, but it also lets it switch into odd fighting moves)
  17. wilson46

    wilson46
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    QC APPROVED (3/3)
  18. SlimMan

    SlimMan

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    True.
    It's also initially slower, although I can't think of anything it misses out on atm.
  19. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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  20. V0x

    V0x meow or something
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    Tini (teeny) amateur check

    add
    remou
    a comment or 2

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf (Offensive)
    move 1: V-create
    move 2: Fusion Bolt
    move 3: Brick Break
    move 4: U-turn
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>It comes as (hopefully) no surprise that Victini's ultimate weapon can often be its ultimate downfall, specifically because of V-create's unpleasant stat decreases. Consequently, Victini is easily prone to being revenge killed, despite the power it brings. However, slapping a Choice Scarf on a physical Victini somewhat alleviates its problems, most notably nullifying the speed decrease and allowing Victini to use V-create two or more times in succession. Though using Choice Scarf means Victini won't be as powerful as it is in similar sets, it still has the offensive potential going for it, most notably being able to 2HKO its previous counters in the sun. The goal of this set, conversely, is a bit different from that of the standard Physical Attacker; Victini should aim outspeed and revenge kill faster threats rather than breaking walls and resistances.</p>

    <p>Keep in mind that main appeal of this set is V-create, and the other moves should be used only if you haven't removed certain threats yet. U-turn is a more relevant move on this set, as it enables Victini to scout out its counters early-game and switch out for a better matchup. This should be used in conjunction with Team Preview to eliminate counters Victini may fight against.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Victini has some attacks worth mentioning for this set over Brick Break or U-turn. In any event where Victini can't afford to use V-create, such as low PP or the stat decreases, Flare Blitz is an option for temporary consistency. Because of its increased speed, Victini also gains the ability to outspeed some Dragon Dance users, so Hidden Power Ice, with either a Hasty or Naive nature, can revenge kill the likes of Dragonite and Haxorus. Again, the nature of your choice depends on which targets opponents Victini is targeting specifically. In the Choice Scarf set's this case, a Jolly nature may prove to be the most productive choice, as it allows Victini to tie with opposing positive-natured base 100 Pokemon while achieving and achieve relevant KOs in the sun. Calculations are shown below to emphasize this point. , as shown below:</p>

    <ul class="damage_calculations">
    <li>vs 4 HP Latios: 72.8% - 86.1%</li>
    <li>vs 252 HP Latias (w/ neutral nature): 54.9% - 64.8%</li>
    <li>vs 4 HP Salamence (assuming -1 Attack): 44.1% - 52% (2HKO with Stealth Rock)</li>
    <li>vs 252 HP / 216 Def Jellicent: 42.8% - 50.5% (2HKO with layers of Spikes)</li>
    <li>vs 252 HP / 212 Def Gliscor (w/ Impish nature): 65.5% - 77.4%</li>
    <li>vs 4 HP Terrakion: 61.7% - 72.9%</li>
    </ul>

    <p>As far as team support is concerned, Drought Ninetales should be the first thing that should comes to mind. As delineated above, Victini performs best in permanent sunlight, where it can 2HKO many of its previous counters by using its boosted V-create twice. Otherwise, Victini's power output may prove to be disappointing against some dedicated defensive threats, an area where the Physical Attacker set can handle better (in any weather). Additionally, Ninetales is able to utilize certain status moves to cripple or shut down troublesome foes and opposing weather starters, where allowing Victini can to clean up thereafter.</p>

    <p>Seeing that as Victini is vulnerable to all hazards, and will switch in and out of the battlefield often, using Rapid Spin support is highly advised. Therefore, Donphan's general effectiveness in sun or Forretress's defensive prowess may do the job for you. Moreover, employing teammates that can eliminate V-create buffers (Heatran, Gastrodon, and weather starters, to name a few) is nigh obligatory. Still, this is easier said than done, so luring these counters with U-turn may be the best approach.</p>
  21. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Okay, thanks for the check, v0x. Looked fine, so...implemented!
  22. NatGeo

    NatGeo sun's coming up
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    v0x is pretty much on the GP team now so consider that check official

    GP 1/2

    also seeing as you've implement it i'll finish this up for you with a GP check

    remove
    add

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf (Offensive)
    move 1: V-create
    move 2: Fusion Bolt
    move 3: Brick Break
    move 4: U-turn
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>It comes as (hopefully) no surprise that Victini's ultimate weapon can often be its ultimate downfall, specifically because of V-create's unpleasant stat decreases. Consequently, Victini is prone to being revenge killed, despite the power its V-create brings. However, slapping a Choice Scarf on a physical Victini somewhat alleviates its problems, most notably nullifying the speed decrease and allowing Victini to use V-create two times in succession. Though using Choice Scarf means Victini won't be as powerful as it is in similar sets, it still has the offensive potential to 2HKO its previous counters in the sun. The goal of this set, conversely, is a bit different from that of the standard Physical Attacker; Victini should aim to outspeed and revenge kill faster threats rather than breaking walls regardless of (hope i said this right but breaking resistances is a bit awkward.) and resistances.</p>

    <p>Keep in mind that main appeal of this set is V-create, and the other moves should be used only if you haven't removed certain threats yet. U-turn is a more relevant move on this set, as it enables Victini to scout out its counters early-game and switch out for a better matchup. This should be used in conjunction with Team Preview to help eliminate counters Victini may fight against (yeah, U-turn's not taking out Tar anytime soon, but tini has teammates that can!).</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Victini has some attacks worth mentioning for this set over Brick Break or U-turn. In any event where Victini can't afford to use V-create, such as low PP or the stat decreases, Flare Blitz is an option for temporary consistency. Because of its increased speed, Victini also gains the ability to outspeed some Dragon Dance users, so Hidden Power Ice, with either a Hasty or Naive nature, can revenge kill the likes of Dragonite and Haxorus. Again, the nature of your choice depends on which opponents Victini is targeting specifically. In this set's the Choice Scarf set's case, a Jolly nature may prove to be the most productive choice, as it allows Victini to tie with opposing positive-natured base 100 Pokemon and achieve relevant KOs in the sun. Calculations are shown below to emphasize this point.</p>

    <ul class="damage_calculations">
    <li>V-create (Sun) vs. 4/0 Latios: 72.8% - 86.1%</li>
    <li>V-create (Sun) vs. 252/0 Latias: 54.9% - 64.8%</li>
    <li>-1 V-create (Sun) vs. 4/0 Salamence: 44.1% - 52% (2HKO with Stealth Rock)</li>
    <li>V-create (Sun) vs. 252/216+ Jellicent: 42.8% - 50.5% (2HKO with layers of Spikes)</li>
    <li>V-vreate (Sun) vs. 252/212+ Gliscor: 65.5% - 77.4%</li>
    <li>V-create (Sun) vs. 4/0 Terrakion: 61.7% - 72.9%</li>
    </ul>

    <p>As far as team support is concerned, Drought Ninetales should be the first thing that comes to mind. As delineated above, Victini performs best in permanent sunlight, where it 2HKOes many of its previous counters by using its boosted V-create twice. Otherwise, Victini's power output may prove to be disappointing against some dedicated defensive threats, an area the Physical Attacker set can handle better (in any weather). Additionally, Ninetales can utilize certain status moves to cripple or shut down troublesome foes and opposing weather starters, allowing Victini to clean up thereafter.</p>

    <p>Seeing as Victini is vulnerable to all hazards, and will switch in and out of the battlefield often, using Rapid Spin support is highly advised. Therefore, Donphan's general effectiveness in sunlight or Forretress's defensive prowess may do the job for you. Moreover, employing teammates that can eliminate V-create buffers (Heatran, Gastrodon, and weather starters, to name a few who can take it (seemed like you were talking about teammates here)) is nigh obligatory. Still, this is easier said than done, so luring these counters with U-turn and offensive support may be the best approach.</p>

    GP 2/2

    first set done as a ladybug, nice work!
  23. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    v0x got promoted? Awesome. Cheers to you too, Natgeo.

    I declare thee (Done).
  24. Fatecrashers

    Fatecrashers acta est fabula
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