Victini (Trick Room) [QC 3/3]

ginganinja

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#1
QC Approvals: 3/3 (Shrang, Harsha, Pocket)
QC Rejections: 0/3
GP Approvals: 0/3

O.k, so basically I have been testing this on Showdown for ages, people like Nixhex and Lavos Spawn have seen me rape with TR Victini, Stallion reckons it was a solid pokemon and I reckon its deserving of a set. I talked to some QC members about it, some liked it, some didn't, so feel free to test this shit and come back with your thoughts. Basically, I don't really want to write this, because I think my writting sucks and its prolly easier for Grammar Checkers if someone else actually writes this up (assuming it passes QC). That said, if no-one actually wants too, I guess ill do it although im pretty busy :/

I'd approve this myself but stealth approves are gay and some QC members are unsure so ill wait for a full discussion and get others to approve / reject.

Victini (Trick Room)


Victini

[SET]
name: Trick Room
move 1: Trick Room
move 2: V-Create
move 3: Fusion Bolt
move 4: Brick Break
item: Flame Plate
nature: Brave
evs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
ivs: 0 Spd

Why this set deserves to be on-site:
-Hits like a fucking truck
-Choice Band is usually forced out after a KO / players use death fodder. TR Victini gets around this by setting up TR on a switch, and then spamming V-Create making it exceptionally difficult to revenge kill, while still abusing that powerful V-Create
-Investment in HP makes it slightly more bulky that the other Victini sets onsite, which allows it to do its job (setting up TR) easier.
-Good check to Volcarona, which can be fairly annoying to many sun teams, the extra bulk allows Victini to tank a Bug Buzz and nail it with V-Create

Additional Comments:
-Life Orb I guess for extra power for Fusion Bolt and Brick Break. Losing 10% every time you attack is a little offputting tho, and mostly you are spamming V-Create anyway.
-Umm i guess you can run slightly more speed if you wanted to outspeed something before Trick Room but means slower shit will then outspeed you under Trick Room I guess.
-Muscle Band is an o.k option since you still retain an item that boosts V-Create, and it can threaten to 2KO certain Tyranitar, Politoed and Heatran after Stealth Rock, which Flame Plate just misses out on. It also helps break Dragonites MultiScale, letting you KO with V-Create.
-U-Turn is a cool move because you can U-Turn out of a Tyranitar / Politoed switch to trap them, or at least get a more advantageous switch. On the other hand you can try hitting them with a Brick Break / Fusion Bolt anyway but its an option.
-Sunny Day can be used as well for when you predict the weather starter switching in, leaving you free to nuke something with V-Create. Losing out on a coverage moves sucks I guess but then again, V-Create is all you rly need :)

Teammates & Counters:
-You want Ninetales as a partner obv so you can destroy Fire resists with V-Create (like OHKOing Rotom W)
-Dugtrio is a good partner cos it can trap weather starters like Politoed and Tyranitar which will switch in and take away sunlight, making you easier to wall. It also traps some Heatran.
-The ever useful Stealth Rock is a good option here, since it helps wear down Tyranitar / Hippowdon / Politoed, as well as push a few 2Kos into OHKOs which is pretty useful for Victini since it generally doesn't want to take a hit once its started spamming V-Create. Heatran or Dugtrio are decent options here.
-Adding a grass type is prolly useful since a) your using this with sun and b) its nice for Hippowdon (which Duggy cannot trap), as well as giving you a threat to Politoed or something.
-Having a spinner or Magic Bounce user is recommended (although I was able to get by without one) cos SR / Spikes can wear you down, and Victini likes its bulk so it can pull off a Trick Room.

-Weather inducers are going to give you trouble (as already explained), as well as Stealth Rock / Spikes
-Heatran is annoying
-In general if something survives your hit, and has decent attacking power, the drops to your defensive stats via V-Create will cause you to take heavy damage. Then again, V-Create hits like a fucking truck so just weaken them a little bit I guess.

EDIT

Nixhex has agreed to write this for me if it passes QC so ty :)
 

Harsha

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#2
I see nothing wrong with Trick Room Victini, it works fine. As long as it's low in the set order I'm cool with it.

QC Approved (1/3)
 
#4
You mention both U-Turn and Dugtrio, but seperately. If using Dugtrio U-turn is probably the best move for trapping Tran, Scarf toed, etc.

I've had a lot of success with this, I used Ninetales - ScarfRachi - Venusaur - Victini - Sheer Force Conk - Claydol for a while and it was p cool.
 

Pocket

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#5
You should probably mention its underrated bulk, thanks to significant EV investment in HP.

Final Gambit might be worth mentioning, since Victini has lots of HP and shares similar weaknesses as other Sun Sweepers, so it can take them out for them.

Is there a reason why the 8 EVs went to SpD and not Def?

You don't mention hazards support, but would SR help Victini nab some nifty KOs / 2HKOs? It certainly helps in breaking Dragonite's MultiScale.

Just some guiding questions to enhance you analysis
 

alexwolf

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#6
Here are some interesting calcs:

With Muscle Band:

- Fusion Bolt vs Defensive Politoed: 50 - 58.85%, 72.66% chance to 2HKO, and sure OHKO after SR
- Fusion Bolt vs Scarf Politoed: 86.6 - 102.18%, 12.5% chance to OHKO, 93.75% chance after SR
- Brick Break vs 252 HP Ttar: 75.24 - 89.1%, 12.5% chance to OHKO after SR
- Brick Break vs 4 HP Ttar (ScarfTar): 88.88 - 105.26%, 31.25% chance to OHKO and sure OHKO after SR
- Brick Break vs 156 HP Ttar (CBTar): 80 - 94.73%, 43.75% chance to OHKO after SR
- Brick Break vs 248 HP Heatran: 41.03 - 48.31%, 14.06% chance to 2HKO after SR
- Brick Break vs 0 HP Heatran: 48.91 - 57.58%, 92.58% chance to 2HKO, and sure OHKO after SR

Now let's see the same calcs without Muscle Band (Flame Plate):

- Fusion Bolt vs Defensive Politoed: 44.79 - 53.12%, 0.39% chance to 2HKO, 89.06% chance to OHKO after SR
- Fusion Bolt vs Scarf Politoed: 79.12 - 93.45%, can't OHKO w/o SR, and has a 43.75% chance to do with SR
- Brick Break vs 252 HP Ttar: 68.31 - 81.18%, never an OHKO
- Brick Break vs 4 HP Ttar (ScarfTar): 80.7 - 95.9%, can't OHKO w/o SR and has a 56.25% chance to do with SR
- Brick Break vs 156 HP Ttar (CBTar): 72.63 - 86.31%, never an OHKO
- Brick Break vs 248 HP Heatran: 37.4 - 44.15%, never a 2HKO
- Brick Break vs 0 HP Heatran: 44.58 - 52.63%, 19.92% chance to 2HKO, and sure 2HKO after SR

So i guess that Muscle Band has some merit, to get a mention in AC, as turning 2HKOes and 3HKOes to OHKOes and 3HKOes against the top 3 public enemies to Sun teams is definitely is very important.
 

alexwolf

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#8
Yeah i guess EB is ok too, but the problem with it is that it doesn't power up your main move, V-Create. Hitting Toed, Ttar and Heatran harder is nice, but is it nice enough to lose a 20% power against anything else? Let's not forget that Sand and Rain teams don't even make for half of the meta, so more than half of the times you will be losing 20% power. But with Muscle Band you only lose on a 10% of power against teams that don't have those 3 pokes, and you still OHKO/2HKO all 3 of them after SR.
 

ginganinja

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#9
You mention both U-Turn and Dugtrio, but seperately. If using Dugtrio U-turn is probably the best move for trapping Tran, Scarf toed, etc.
I mentioned them separately because Duggy is a good, generic partner regardless if you use U-Turn / Brick Break. I personally think U-Turn is AC material, but if the rest of QC wants it slashed with Brick Break, then I will do so.

Final Gambit might be worth mentioning, since Victini has lots of HP and shares similar weaknesses as other Sun Sweepers, so it can take them out for them.
There is (or was) a Scarf Final Gambit Victini set already onsite, and personally, it does a better job and using Final Gambit, than this set does. I don't really think Final Gambit should be on this set, especially when you often take a hit in setting up TR anyway, plus Stealth Rock / hazards make it less useful as time goes on. I know your idea, Final Gambit on the last TR turn, go from there, but in practise, I have never been in a situation when killing something with V-Create wouldn't suffice.

Fine I guess I can mention Muscle Band in AC I GUESS even tho its a meh option.

I will leave this open for at least another 24hrs in case any QC members have any objections, otherwise this might as well receive a third check so Nixhex can write this up.
 

Pocket

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#10
Mention breaking MultiScale with SR. Also mention how it's a decent check to the likes of QD Volcarona.

Otherwise groovy

QC Approved (3/3)