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Victreebel (QC 3/3) (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Texas Cloverleaf, Nov 30, 2011.

  1. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    [Overview]

    <p>Victreebel rarely had a chance to shine in previous generations, having few options to give it any niche. That changes in Gen 5 RU, where Victreebel becomes one of the most threatening Pokemon in the game with the proper support. Its great 105 / 100 mixed attacking stats, along with its very powerful offensive moves, make Victreebel a solid Pokemon. But that's not all, under Sunny Day, Victreebel becomes a monster; Chlorophyll doubles its Speed, while Growth does the same to its offenses. Sun makes or breaks Victreebel; under sun it is ridiculously powerful, 2HKOing the entire tier, but outside of it, Victreebel is all but dead-weight.</p>

    <p>All this power comes at a price, however. Its poor defensive stats mean that even though it can decimate most of the tier in one or two hits, it will only be able to take one attack at best; priority also causes it huge problems defensively. Victreebel also has very limited offensive options, the lack of physical coverage practically requires it to go mixed. Although Victreebel has received very few changes since Gen 4, it is still capable of obliterating teams with some support.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Mixed Sun Abuser
    move 1: Leaf Blade
    move 2: Weather Ball
    move 3: Sludge Bomb
    move 4: Growth
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Rash
    ability: Chlorophyll
    evs: 200 Atk / 56 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is the ultimate sun abusing set; after a Growth boost, Victreebel is capable of defeating everything in RU in 1 or 2. As the intent of the set is to cover the entirety of the tier, Victreebel's two STAB options, Leaf Blade and Sludge Bomb, attack off both the physical and special side, leaving nothing safe from its deadly offensive prowess. Weather Ball is the key to this set, giving Victreebel perfect coverage, as well as a 100 Base Power Fire-type move under the sun, allowing it to gain a psuedo STAB from the weather. The power this set provides is ridiculous, with only maximum Defense Munchlax, a niche option at best, able to withstand Victreebel's onslaught.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Chlorophyll is the crux of any Victreebel set, doubling its Speed underneath the sun. Full investment in Speed ensures that Victreebel is able to outspeed Choice Scarf variants of base 95 Speed Pokemon, outspeeding and KOing threats such as Moltres and Sawsbuck. The given offensive EVs ensure that Victreebel will always OHKO Moltres and Entei with Sludge Bomb at +2 Special Attack, and will always 2HKO Munchlax with Leaf Blade after a Growth boost, which is important since those three Pokemon are the greatest threats to Victreebel's sweep.</p>

    <p>Victreebel's perfect type coverage is enhanced further by the use of Life Orb, ensuring that its one and two hit KOs remain as such. In terms of alternative moveset options, SolarBeam can be used over Leaf Blade, along with a purely specially-based EV spread. This makes the most of its destructive power and lets it take full advantage of the sun. With the additional EVs, SolarBeam is almost equally as effective as Leaf Blade in accomplishing a sweep, although it may force Victreebel to struggle more against dedicated special walls. Sleep Powder is a useful move on Victreebel, granting it the ability to incapacitate one of its counters. However, this choice gives it significant coverage issues, hindering a potential sweep. An alternative moveset utilizing Power Whip and Hidden Power Fire can be used in place of Leaf Blade and Weather Ball, as Power Whip and Weather Ball are an illegal breeding combination. This trades the power Weather Ball provides in favor of the sheer destruction Power Whip allows for, OHKOing almost anything that doesn't resist it.</p>

    <p>Despite the ridiculous power Victreebel has, it is quite frail, and almost any attacker is capable of at least 2HKOing it. Additionally, it absolutely requires Sunny Day support to function. To this end, Uxie makes an amazing partner for Victreebel, capable of setting up Sunny Day before U-turning out, as well as setting up Reflect and Light Screen, aiding Victreebel's set up. Victreebel also loves support from entry hazards, especially Spikes, as it turns many of the 2HKOs on opposing Pokemon into outright kills. Therefore, Qwilfish is an excellent partner thanks to its ability to set up Spikes, while also checking the opposing Fire-type Pokemon that give Sun teams pause.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Outside of the moves already mentioned, Victreebel has very few alternative choices. Sucker Punch is Victreebel's only form of priority, and can be used to pick off weakened Pokemon or Pokemon that could outspeed and threaten Victreebel. However, it generally lacks power without any boosts to back it up. Encore is an option that can grant Victreebel turns to set up; for example, Victreebel can Encore a wall using Toxic, and use this time to set up Growth. Unfortunately, this greatly reduces Victreebel's coverage and leaves it more vulnerable than it should be. A Swords Dance set is an alternative option to the Mixed set, with a set of Leaf Blade, Sucker Punch, Swords Dance, and Return, Victreebel can hit most of the tier hard. However, this set struggles greatly with Steel-types and physical walls in general, only managing to 3HKO Steelix with a +2 Leaf Blade.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>With the immense power Victreebel wields, it is very difficult to find a Pokemon to take it on. If Victreebel is given the chance to set up, nothing in the tier is capable of avoiding a 2HKO. That said, Victreebel suffers from frailty, so attacking it immediately can weaken it to the point where a clean sweep is not an option. After it sets up, the best way to stop it is with smart switches that can outstall the sun turns and increase Life Orb recoil damage. Choice Scarf variants of base 100 Speed Pokemon such as Typhlosion are able to outspeed Victreebel in the sun, thereby revenge killing it before it wreaks too much havoc. The bulkier Pokemon in the tier can take one attack and fire back in return; Throh is the best option for this, but Gallade is also good choice. Snover, although it cannot switch in easily, removes the sun that makes Victreebel so deadly, replacing it with hail that can wear Victreebel down. Strong priority such as Entei's ExtremeSpeed or Honchkrow's Sucker Punch will put Victreebel in a position where it cannot use more than a couple of attacks before fainting to Life Orb recoil, possibly even KOing it if Victreebel has switched into entry hazards.</p>
  2. Omicron

    Omicron
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    ExtremeSpeed Entei and Sucker Punch from Honchkrow can dent it quite a bit
  3. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    Added, I mentioned it somewhere but forgot about it for C&C.

    Reminding myself to go Honkcalculate all v 1, I was so stunned by the 1 v all calcs I forgot to do that.
  4. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    QC APPROVED (1/3)
  5. Nails

    Nails EAST 2014
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    altariaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

    sleep powder to ac, pwhip over leaf blade (with hp fire over weather ball and an explanation in ac about why)

    [QC APPROVED 2/3]
  6. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    Nails's comments implemented after arguing for the sanctity of the main set over irc :)
  7. Windsong

    Windsong .dancin
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    Yeah, my post from the original Victreebell thread. I'd still like to see this implemented, or if not both, at least the physical set, which definitely has its merits.

    QC APPROVED 3/3 though
  8. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    I am still of the opinion that the mixed set encompasses the abilities of both the physical and special sets to a greater extent than either could come up with. Honko's mass calculator reveals the immense power of the mixed set, to such an extent that I am convinced that no other set is necessary, as I have argued with PKGaming, Nails, and the people I spoke to when discussing the best sets for Victreebel. The special sweeper set I feel is irrelevant when compared to the mixed only serving to increase its ability to be walled by Munchlax and co. The physical set I originally had as a set, but again, after calculations, I determined that it gained no extra KOs over the mixed set, was too easily walled by steels, and that Sucker Punch was not enough of a redeeming quality to warrant its own set (argued that specifically with PK) - that letting alone the fact that a SD set is generally outclassed by Leafeon.

    Due to these particular disagreements I am retaining this at QC 2/3 until I have had the opportunity to talk with you and discuss just how much of a boss the Mixed set is, and just how unnecessary the other two sets are.

    (nails was pushing for a more physical set as well but the calcs I presented changed his mind as near as I could tell)
  9. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    I don't play much RU, but I agree with Texas Cloverleaf that the mixed set was superior. When writing the UU analysis, I ran loads of calcs, attempting to find a counter to Victreebel. These stretched well into the reaches of RU, I can can still say with some confidence that the mixed set will get more KOs after a growth. Weather Ball really was the killer move (with the spread from the UU analysis, you could OHKO defensive Qwilfish with it lol), rather than Leaf Blade or Sludge Bomb, which is why I feel that Power Whip is the inferior option. HP Fire really doesn't cut it.

    Sucker Punch is illegal with Power Whip and Weather Ball btw, which makes it a really bad option pretty much all of the time. I'd also like to repeat what I said about HP Rock in the last thread; it's absolutely terrible, and only of any merit in one specific situation against Moltres (no SR, no Growth, sun up).

    Any need for max Speed (or 228 Speed) in particular? If there is, it's probably best to include it in the analysis.
  10. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    I cant check atm but I but would guess that 228 allows it to outspeed Scarfed base 95 speed tiers, as max gets outsped by scarf base 100.
  11. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    Assuming that Victreebel has a neutral nature, 196 Speed lets it outrun +1 neutral base 100s, 216 Speed lets it outrun +1 positive base 90s, 224 lets it outrun scarf rotom, and to outrun +1 positive base 95s, you need 248 Spe EVs (in which case I could understand max). Positive base 100s are out of reach.

    I have absolutely no clue what 228 is for.
  12. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    I'm going to start writing up the current set, as it is unaffected by the result of windsong and my discussion when it happens.
  13. Endorfins

    Endorfins Your Worst Nightmare
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    IMO Sucker Punch is one of the few things that separate Victreebel from other chlorophyll sweepers. A physical only set with swords dance allows Victreebel to boost up without relying on sun and sucker punch can bypass its speed issues when facing faster scarfers or revenge killing outside sun.
  14. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    Thing is, a physical set has huge coverage issues, being walled entirely by steel types, and without chlorophyll is so easily outsped and killed that it isnt great. Sucker Punch is useful, but there are plenty of thing that can take it easily, and anything that resists it makes it useless. This leaving alone the fact that it needs +2 to be able to do anything with Sucker Punch and that its easily OHKOd.

    While its certainly a viable concern, Sucker Punch imo isnt enough to warrant a solely physical set.

    (Your statement and my response is near identical to the one I had with PK Gaming on irc, where I convinced him physical wasnt necessary)
  15. Endorfins

    Endorfins Your Worst Nightmare
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    The two main steels in RU, Steelix and Aggron, both take neutral damage from grass so they don't completely wall Victreebel and if you're running a sun team then steel types shouldn't be much of an issue anyway. Although sucker punch isn't very powerful, its still more than enough to take out many scarfers that can outspeed victreebel in the sun. Swords Dance also allows Victreebel to boost up without sun support which can actually be useful in some situations like when facing walls
  16. Agonist

    Agonist Minutes become hours when you wait, hope and regret
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    Sucker Punch is a Pt/HGSS tutor move, no? In which case it's legal with Weather Ball (HGSS egg move).
  17. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    Under Sun, the Mixed set is always better. Outside of Sun, Victreebel is of limited use.

    As for the steels that also came up when i was first arguing for a SD set (I changed my stance), Aggron can be 2HKOd by a +2 Leaf Blade, Steelix is 3HKOd at best, however both will easily 1 or 2HKO Victreebel in return.

    tl;dr, SD isnt worth it, run the mixed set (I'm not going to take this further here, I've has this argument with the QC team twice and on PO when i originally was looking for sets).
  18. Endorfins

    Endorfins Your Worst Nightmare
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    can sucker punch at least get a slash over sludge bomb?
  19. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    Absolutely not. Sludge Bomb is entirely necessary unless you want to completely lose to Moltres and Entei. There isn't anything stopping Sucker Punch from being used, but as far as I'm concerned Additional Comments/Other Options is an accurate placement for it.
  20. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    Confirmation from windsong that the only set being mixed is acceptable, writing will continue asap.
  21. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    Ready for GP checks
  22. -Tsunami-

    -Tsunami- ¬°YA HA!
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    [Overview]

    <p>Victreebel has rarely had a chance to shine competitively in previous generations, having few options to give it any niche. That changes in Gen 5 RU where Victreebel is one of the most threatening Pokemon in the game with the proper support. Its great 105(space)/(space)100 mixed attacking stats, along with its very powerful movepool, make Victreebel a solid Pokemon. But that's not all, under Sunny conditions Day, Victreebel becomes a monster; (semicolon) , (comma) Chlorophyll doublesing its Speed, and while Growth doesing the same to its offenses. Sun makes or breaks Victreebel; under Ssun, (comma) it is ridiculously powerful, 2HKOing the entire tier, but outside of it, (comma) Victreebel is being all but dead-weight.</p>

    <p>All this power comes at a price, (comma) however. Its poor defensive stats mean that even though while it can decimate most of the tier in one or two hits, it will only be able to take one attack at best in return; priority also causes it huge problems defensively. Victreebel also has very limited offensive options, the lack of coverage on its physical sets have practically requireing it to go mixed. Although Victreebel has received very few changes since Gen 4, it is still capable of obliterating teams with some support.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Mixed Sun Abuser
    move 1: Leaf Blade
    move 2: Weather Ball
    move 3: Sludge Bomb
    move 4: Growth
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Rash
    ability: Chlorophyll
    evs: 200 Atk / 56 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With Tthe ultimate sun abusing set, Victreebel is capable of defeating everything in RU in 1 or 2 attacks after a Growth boost. As the intent of the set is to cover the entirety of the tier, Victreebel's two STAB options, Leaf Blade and Sludge Bomb, attack off both the physical and special side, leaving nothing safe from its deadly offensivees prowess. Weather Ball is really the key to this set, giving Victreebel it perfect coverage, as well as a 100 base power Fire-(hyphen)type move under Sun, allowing it to gain gaining a psuedo STAB from that weather. The power this set provides is ridiculous, with only maximum defense Munchlax, a niche option at best, able to withstand Victreebel's onslaught.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Chlorophyll is the crux of this, or any, Victreebel set, doubling its speed underneath the Sun. Full investment in Speed ensures that Victreebel is able to outspeed Choice Scarf variants of Bbase 95 Speed Pokemon, outspeeding and KOing threats such as Moltres and or Sawsbuck.The given offensive EVs ensure that Victreebel will always OHKO Moltres and Entei with Sludge Bomb at +2 Special Attack, and will always 2HKO Munchlax with Leaf Blade after a Growth boost, which is important since those three Pokemon are those being the greatest threats to ending a Victreebel'(apostrophe)s sweep.</p>

    <p>The perfect neutral coverage Victreebel carries is enhanced further by the use of Life Orb, ensuring that its one and two hit KOs remain as such. In terms of alternative moveset options, Solarbeam can be used over Leaf blade, (comma) along with a purely specially-(hyphen)based EV spread, (comma) for alternative destructive power and full abuse of the Ssun condition. With the additional EVs, Solarbeam is almost equally as effective as Leaf Blade in accomplishing a sweep, although it may force Victreebel to struggle more against dedicated special walls. Sleep Powder is a useful move on Victreebel, granting it the ability to incapacitate one of its counters. However, this choice gives it significant coverage issues, hindering a potential sweep. An alternative moveset utilizsing Power Whip and Hidden Power Fire can be used in place of Leaf Blade and Weather Ball, as Power Whip and Weather Ball are an illegal breeding combination. This trades the power Weather Ball provides in favour of the sheer destruction Power Whip allows for contains, OHKOing almost anything that doesn't resist it.</p>

    <p>Despite the ridiculous power Victreebel has contains, it is quite frail, and almost any attacker will be capable of at least 2HKOing it. Additionally, it absolutely requires Sunny Day support to function. To this end, Uxie makes an amazing partner for Victreebel, capable of setting up Sunny Day before U-Turning out, as well being capable of setting up Reflect and Light Screen, aiding Victreebel in setting up. Victreebel also loves support from entry hazards, especially Spikes, as it turns many of the 2HKOs on opposing Pokemon into outright kills. Qwilfish is therefore an excellent partner for its ability to set up Spikes while also checking the opposing Fire-type Pokemon that give Sun teams pause.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Outside of the moves already mentioned, Victreebel has very few alternative move choices. Sucker Punch is Victreebel's only form of priority, and can be used to pick off weakened Pokemon or Pokemon that could outspeed and threaten Victreebel. However, it generally lacks in power without any form of boosts to back it up. Encore is an option that can grant Victreebel turns to set up, allowing Victreebel to Encoreing a wall into Toxic, (comma) for example, (comma) before using Growth. Unfortunately, (comma) this greatly reduces Victreebel's coverage and leaves it more vulnerable than it should be. A Swords Dance set is and alternative option to the Mixed set, and with a set of Leaf Blade, Sucker Punch, Swords Dance and Return, (comma) Victreebel can hitting much of the tier hard. However this set struggles greatly with Steel-types, (comma) and physical walls in general, only managing a 3HKO on Steelix with a +2 Leaf Blade.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>With the immense power Victreebel wields, it is very difficult to find a Pokemon to take it on, as if Victreebel does set up, nothing in the tier is capable of avoiding a 2HKO. That said, Victreebel suffers from frailty, so and attacking it immediately can weaken it to the point where a clean sweep is not an option. After it sets up, the best way to stop it is with smart switches, (comma) looking to that can outstall the sun turns, (comma) as well as and increaseing Life Orb recoil damage. That said, Choice Scarf variants of base 100 speed Pokemon, (comma) such as Typhlosion, (comma) are able to outspeed Victreebel in the Ssun, thereby being able to revenge killing it before it wreaks too much havoc. The bulkier Pokemon in the tier can take one attack and fire back in return; (semicolon) , (comma) Throh being is the best option for this, (comma) but with Gallade is also good choice. Snmover, although it cannot switch in easily, removes the sun that makes Victreebel so deadly, replacing it with hail that can wear Victreebel down also chipping away at its health with hail damage. Strong priority, (comma) such as Entei's Extremespeed or Honchkrow's Sucker Punch will put Victreebel in a position where it cannot use more than a couple attacks before fainting to Life Orb recoil, possibly even KOing it if Victreebel has switched into entry hazards.</p>


    [​IMG]
    GP Approved 1/2
  23. Texas Cloverleaf

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  24. Komodo

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    [Overview]

    <p>Victreebel has rarely had a chance to shine competitively in previous generations, having few options to give it any niche. That changes in Gen 5 RU,(comma) where Victreebel is becomes one of the most threatening Pokemon in the game with the proper support. Its great 105 / 100 mixed attacking stats, along with its very powerful offensive moves movepool, make Victreebel a solid Pokemon. But that's not all, under Sunny Day, Victreebel becomes a monster; Chlorophyll doubles its Speed, while Growth does the same to its offenses. Sun makes or breaks Victreebel; under sun it is ridiculously powerful, 2HKOing the entire tier, but outside of it, Victreebel is all but dead-weight.</p>

    <p>All this power comes at a price, however. Its poor defensive stats mean that even though it can decimate most of the tier in one or two hits, it will only be able to take one attack at best; priority also causes it huge problems defensively. Victreebel also has very limited offensive options, the lack of physical coverage on its physical sets practically requires it to go mixed. Although Victreebel has received very few changes since Gen 4, it is still capable of obliterating teams with some support.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Mixed Sun Abuser
    move 1: Leaf Blade
    move 2: Weather Ball
    move 3: Sludge Bomb
    move 4: Growth
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Rash
    ability: Chlorophyll
    evs: 200 Atk / 56 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>WithThis is the ultimate sun abusing set;(semi colon) after a Growth boost, Victreebel is capable of defeating everything in RU in 1 or 2 attacks after a Growth boost. As the intent of the set is to cover the entirety of the tier, Victreebel's two STAB options, Leaf Blade and Sludge Bomb, attack off both the physical and special side, leaving nothing safe from its deadly offensive prowess. Weather Ball is really the key to this set, giving Victreebel perfect coverage, as well as a 100 Base Power Fire-type move under the sun, allowing it to gain a psuedo STAB from the weather. The power this set provides is ridiculous, with only maximum Defense Munchlax, a niche option at best, able to withstand Victreebel's onslaught.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Chlorophyll is the crux of this, or any,(remove comma) Victreebel set, doubling its Speed underneath the sun. Full investment in Speed ensures that Victreebel is able to outspeed Choice Scarf variants of base 95 Speed Pokemon, outspeeding and KOing threats such as Moltres and Sawsbuck.(space)The given offensive EVs ensure that Victreebel will always OHKO Moltres and Entei with Sludge Bomb at +2 Special Attack, and will always 2HKO Munchlax with Leaf Blade after a Growth boost, which is important since those three Pokemon are the greatest threats to Victreebel's sweep.</p>

    <p>The Victreebel's perfect neutral type coverage Victreebel carries is enhanced further by the use of Life Orb, ensuring that its one and two hit KOs remain as such. In terms of alternative moveset options, SolarBeam can be used over Leaf Blade, along with a purely specially-based EV spread.(full stop) for alternative This makes the most out of its destructive power and lets it take full advantage full abuse of the sun condition. With the additional EVs, SolarBeam is almost equally as effective as Leaf Blade in accomplishing a sweep, although it may force Victreebel to struggle more against dedicated special walls. Sleep Powder is a useful move on Victreebel, granting it the ability to incapacitate one of its counters. However, this choice gives it significant coverage issues, hindering a potential sweep. An alternative moveset utilizing Power Whip and Hidden Power Fire can be used in place of Leaf Blade and Weather Ball, as Power Whip and Weather Ball are an illegal breeding combination. This trades the power Weather Ball provides in favor of the sheer destruction Power Whip allows for, OHKOing almost anything that doesn't resist it.</p>

    <p>Despite the ridiculous power Victreebel has, it is quite frail, and almost any attacker will be is capable of at least 2HKOing it. Additionally, it absolutely requires Sunny Day support to function. To this end, Uxie makes an amazing partner for Victreebel, capable of setting up Sunny Day before U-turning out, as well as being capable of setting up Reflect and Light Screen, aiding Victreebel's set up in setting up. Victreebel also loves support from entry hazards, especially Spikes, as it turns many of the 2HKOs on opposing Pokemon into outright kills. Therefore, Qwilfish is therefore an excellent partner for thanks to its ability to set up Spikes,(comma) while also checking the opposing Fire-type Pokemon that give sun teams pause.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Outside of the moves already mentioned, Victreebel has very few alternative move choices. Sucker Punch is Victreebel's only form of priority, and can be used to pick off weakened Pokemon or Pokemon that could outspeed and threaten Victreebel. However, it generally lacks power without any boosts to back it up. Encore is an option that can grant Victreebel turns to set up;(semi colon) for example, allowing Victreebel can to Encore a wall into using Toxic,(comma) for example before using and use this time to set up Growth. Unfortunately, this greatly reduces Victreebel's coverage and leaves it more vulnerable than it should be. A Swords Dance set is an alternative option to the Mixed set, with a set of Leaf Blade, Sucker Punch, Swords Dance,(comma) and Return,(comma) Victreebel can hit much most of the tier hard. However,(comma) this set struggles greatly with Steel-types and physical walls in general, only managing a to 3HKO on Steelix with a +2 Leaf Blade.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>With the immense power Victreebel wields, it is very difficult to find a Pokemon to take it on.(full stop) as If Victreebel is given the chance to does set up, nothing in the tier is capable of avoiding a 2HKO. That said, Victreebel suffers from frailty, so attacking it immediately can weaken it to the point where a clean sweep is not an option. After it sets up, the best way to stop it is with smart switches that can outstall the sun turns and increase Life Orb recoil damage. That said, Choice Scarf variants of base 100 Speed Pokemon such as Typhlosion are able to outspeed Victreebel in the sun, thereby being able to revenge killing it before it wreaks too much havoc. The bulkier Pokemon in the tier can take one attack and fire back in return; Throh is the best option for this, but Gallade is also good choice. Snover, although it cannot switch in easily, removes the sun that makes Victreebel so deadly, replacing it with hail that can wear Victreebel down. Strong priority such as Entei's ExtremeSpeed or Honchkrow's Sucker Punch will put Victreebel in a position where it cannot use more than a couple of attacks before fainting to Life Orb recoil, possibly even KOing it if Victreebel has switched into entry hazards.</p>




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  25. bojangles

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