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Victreebel (Revamp) [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Dat Blast, Nov 1, 2013.

  1. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast mfw shmebulock
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    [​IMG]
    Plant Eater

    skelly (open)
    [Overview]
    • One of the best sun sweepers thanks to Chlorophyll + high-power moves
    • Excellent offensive typing, giving it great coverage with its STABs alone
    • Access to cool coverage moves like Weather Ball and priority in Sucker Punch
    • Reliance on sun to be effective: sweep is always on a timer, and it's screwed if you're unable to set up sun for it
    • Mediocre at best Speed outside of sun, and super frail
    [SET]
    name: Sun Sweeper
    move 1: SolarBeam
    move 2: Weather Ball
    move 3: Sludge Bomb
    move 4: Growth / Sleep Powder
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Chlorophyll
    nature: Modest
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Only works on a dedicated sun team, but deadly there
    • Keep in mind that the sun needs to be up to be effective, however
    • SolarBeam is a strong Grass STAB that can easily clean up teams once sun is up
    • Weather Ball is boosted by sun and gets good coverage against most Grass resists
    • Sludge Bomb gets pretty much perfect coverage (esp. against Dragons / Zard), and gives you an additional strong STAB if you're unable to set up sun
    • Growth isn't always necessary, but if you manage to sneak one in you smash everything
    • Uses threat level to set up rather than bulk
    • Sleep Powder can dismantle a check and then hit the next switch-in hard
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Good teammates are those that can set up sun for it
    • Golem, Regirock, and Probopass can set up sun + SR, and kill bulky Poisons
    • Probopass can also utilize Volt Switch to bring it in safely
    • Volbeat / Liepard are good options on a full sun team thanks to Prankster + U-turn
    • Jumpluff is manly w/ Sleep Powder + Memento to allow you to set up Growth
    • Other sun sweepers, such as Zard, are useful to take advantage of sun
    [SET]
    name: All-Out Attacker
    move 1: Sleep Powder
    move 2: Leaf Storm
    move 3: Sludge Bomb
    move 4: Sucker Punch
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Chlorophyll
    nature: Rash
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Most effective set outside of sun
    • Can be a decent hole-puncher with its great coverage + Sleep Powder
    • Sleep Powder is a key move, letting it incapacitate a check and hit the next switch-in hard
    • Leaf Storm is strong, denting everything that doesn’t resist
    • Sludge Bomb is another STAB with great coverage, hitting Grass-types and most Leaf Storm resists hard
    • Sucker Punch picks off weakened threats that attempt to revenge kill, somewhat mitigating its low Speed
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • HP Fire for Metang, but that’s basically all it hits and the other moves are too important
    • Encore for further disruption, but Sleep Powder usually gets the job done
    • Very dangerous if it gets a free switch-in, but can’t switch in often due to its frailty
    • A slow pivot (Eel, Probo, Mush) are good partners to help this case
    • SR support is great to secure the 2HKO on Mandibuzz w/ Sludge Bomb, as well as 2HKO Mush w/ Leaf Storm
    • Ground-types can set up SR while also dealing with bulky Poisons
    • Fighting-types like Sawk / Gurdurr can smash special walls
    • Samurott / Carracosta can threaten Charizard as well as Steels, while luring in walls such as Alomomola / Tangela
    [Other Options]
    • SD can surprise special walls and use Sleep Powder to set up, but outclassed by Shiftry
    • Manual sun, but Ludicolo is a better standalone sweeper
    • Giga Drain > SolarBeam or Leaf Storm, but the power is more important and it’s too frail to really make use of the recovery
    • Power Whip, but doesn’t hit anything the other moves don't
    • Stun Spore, but it’s too frail to spread paralysis
    [Checks and Counters]
    • Hard to directly counter w/ its powerful moves, doubled Speed, and Sleep Powder
    • Probopass can take any one hit, but can't switch in repeatedly and can't do /too/ much back
    • Bulky Poisons like Garbodor / Muk can take a hit and hurt it back
    • Roselia even has Natural Cure to shrug off Sleep Powder, though Weather Ball hurts
    • Bulky Dragons are great counters, as Zweilous and Dragonair can absorb sleep and either set up or phaze
    • If not in the sun, much easier to check w/ its low Speed and frailty
    • Faster things that can take a Sucker Punch can check it, such as Charizard / Braviary
    • Sawk / Primeape resist Sucker Punch and can dent w/ Ice Punch (Primeape even has Vital Spirit lol)
    • Priority users, such as Kanga / Skunk, can revenge kill it on relatively low health
    • Audino / Lickilicky can take a hit, but must watch out for boosted SolarBeams and Sleep Powder

    [Overview]

    <p>Victreebel is one of the most dangerous sun sweepers in the tier thanks to its ability, Chlorophyll, and its fantastic offensive capabilities. Its access to powerful STAB moves such as SolarBeam and Sludge Bomb alongside great coverage moves such as Weather Ball makes it a devastating force under the sun. Unfortunately, its absolute reliance on the sun is also its greatest downfall; reliance on moves such as SolarBeam and Weather Ball means it simply cannot function outside its element, and its sweep can be cut short should the sun turns run out. In general, Victreebel struggles to carve itself a niche outside of dedicated sun teams, as its frailty and mediocre Speed outside of sun often prevent it from being effective. Victreebel can be a terrifying force when supported properly, but keep in mind that it won't always find a spot on your team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Sun Sweeper
    move 1: SolarBeam
    move 2: Weather Ball
    move 3: Sludge Bomb
    move 4: Growth / Sleep Powder
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Chlorophyll
    nature: Modest
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Say hello to one of the deadliest sun sweepers in NU. Under the sun, Victreebel becomes a force to be reckoned with&mdash;with doubled Speed and high-powered moves coming off of a base 100 Special Attack, Victreebel can clean up weakened teams with ease. Do note, however, that Victreebel absolutely requires support from teammates to set up sun for it to function. SolarBeam is Victreebel's most powerful drawback-free STAB attack, barreling through anything that does not resist it. Weather Ball is an interesting and unique coverage move Victreebel has access to; it attains excellent coverage with SolarBeam, while also receiving a boost from sun. Sludge Bomb rounds out this set's coverage, providing a strong attack to use against Dragon-types and Charizard while also giving Victreebel a strong STAB move to use if sun is not up. The last slot is generally reserved for Growth; while Victreebel is usually strong enough to sweep without it, if it does manage to set up, it will become almost impossible to wall. Due to Victreebel's frailty, however, it often does not find the opportunity to do this and must resort to offensive pressure. On the other hand, Sleep Powder can also be used as a way to cripple a check, setting Victreebel up to hit the next switch-in hard.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>It cannot be stressed enough that partners for Victreebel must be able to set up sun for it&mdash;Pokemon such as Golem, Regirock, and Probopass can do this while also setting up Stealth Rock and can deal with bulky Poison-types that Victreebel struggles against. Probopass in particular makes for a good partner, as it can utilize Volt Switch to bring in Victreebel safely. Prankster users such as Volbeat and Liepard are also fine choices to set up sun as they can disrupt opposing teams and support Victreebel with Encore and U-turn. Liepard can also threaten Psychic-types, most importantly Trace Gardevoir, with STAB Sucker Punch. Jumpluff is another interesting partner to consider; not only can it set up sun thanks to its high Speed, but it can utilize support moves such as Sleep Powder and Memento, both of which give Victreebel setup opportunities with Growth. Other sun sweepers such as Charizard are also useful to take advantage of the weather.</p>

    [SET]
    name: All-Out Attacker
    move 1: Sleep Powder
    move 2: Leaf Storm
    move 3: Sludge Bomb
    move 4: Sucker Punch
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Chlorophyll
    nature: Rash
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>A mixed attacking set is Victreebel's most effective set when it is used outside of a dedicated sun team. Victreebel can punch holes in many teams, thanks to the sheer power of its moves and Sleep Powder. Sleep Powder is the main move of the set, allowing it to cripple an opposing Pokemon and hit the next switch-in hard; it is also what distinguishes Victreebel from Shiftry, who would otherwise be a superior choice. Leaf Storm is Victreebel's most powerful STAB move, and is chosen over Giga Drain due to its immense and immediate power. Sludge Bomb provides great coverage, hitting most Pokemon that resist Leaf Storm hard while also providing a more reliable STAB move. Sucker Punch can catch many threats that attempt to revenge kill Victreebel off guard, somewhat mitigating Victreebel's low Speed.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Hidden Power Fire can be considered because of its ability to hit Metang hard, but it doesn't really cover anything else. Encore can potentially be useful to support teammates and disrupt the opposing team, but Sleep Powder generally accomplishes this already. Victreebel appreciates free switch-ins due to its frailty, making slow pivots such as Probopass, Eelektross, and Musharna useful teammates. Probopass can also set up Stealth Rock, allowing Victreebel to secure the 2HKO against standard Mandibuzz with Sludge Bomb and 2HKO Musharna with Leaf Storm (factoring in the Special Attack drop). Ground-types are also good teammates to set up Stealth Rock, as aside from this role they are also able to deal with bulky Poison-types such as Muk that can give Victreebel problems. Fighting-types such as Sawk and Gurdurr can handle special walls for Victreebel, making them solid partners. Water-types such as Samurott and Carracosta are also good options, being able to deal with Steel-types such as Metang and lure in walls such as Alomomola and Tangela for Victreebel to take advantage of.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>A Swords Dance set might seem plausible at first, surprising special walls and using Sleep Powder to set up, but Shiftry better performs this role due to its access to Nature Power and STAB Sucker Punch. Victreebel can also use Sunny Day to become a self-supporting sweeper, but Rain Dance Ludicolo is a better Pokémon for this role as it has a much easier time setting up with its better bulk and can use rain-boosted Hydro Pumps to clean up. Giga Drain can provide a more reliable Grass-type STAB move and HP recovery, but SolarBeam and Leaf Storm are superior as the power is more important and Victreebel is too frail to make good use of the recovery. Power Whip can be used on either set, but doesn't hit anything harder than Victreebel's other moves would. Stun Spore can spread paralysis, but Victreebel is too frail for this to be worth using.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>It is difficult to truly counter Victreebel, especially under sun. Dragon-types such as Dragonair, Altaria, and Zweilous are by far the best counters to Victreebel, as they do not fear Sleep Powder and can either set up on it or phaze it out. Bulky Poison-types such as Garbodor and Muk make for solid responses, as they can tank any one hit and retaliate back with their respective STAB moves. Roselia can even absorb Sleep Powder thanks to Natural Cure, though Weather Ball easily 2HKOes it. Probopass can also tank a hit or two from Victreebel, though it cannot do much back in return.</p>

    <p>Without the sun, however, Victreebel becomes much easier to handle, as it is relatively slow and quite frail. Faster Pokemon that can take a Sucker Punch, such as Charizard and Braviary, can easily check it. Sawk and Primeape resist Sucker Punch and can retaliate with Ice Punch&mdash;with proper prediction, Primeape can even switch in on Sleep Powder thanks to Vital Spirit. Priority users such as Kangaskhan and Skuntank make for great checks, easily picking off a weakened Victreebel. Audino and Lickilicky can take hits from it rather well, though they must watch out for boosted SolarBeams and Sleep Powder.</p>
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2013
    Shuckleking87 likes this.
  2. scorpdestroyer

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    I believe a sun set deserves a place onsite. The reason for this is that Victreebel is one of the best Chlorophyll Pokemon on a sun team. Victreebel has access to Growth, Weather Ball, Solarbeam and a slew of other moves to abuse sun with, it absorbs Toxic Spikes, and the speed boost means that more often than not, Victreebel doesn't need to take a hit. It's also a very powerful and potent sun Pokemon that, unlike Shiftry and Sawsbuck, has an easier time with its counters due to Sleep Powder allowing it to take away a counter or give it a chance to set up. IMO sun is the best way to use Victreebel because it has lots of nice tools to abuse. Since it abuses sun really well, many sun teams use Victreebel as their Chlorophyll Pokemon. I think it's best that the sun set gets a place onsite because it's one of the best sun abusers and sunny day support alleviates a lot of its flaws, such as Speed and coverage issues, and also because it's an amazing sun abuser that sets itself firmly apart with Weather Ball, Sleep Powder, etc.

    Just my two cents
  3. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast mfw shmebulock
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    Well, while I do agree that Victreebel is one of the better Chlorophyll abusers out there, I still don't know if that makes it set-worthy. Like I said, the main problem I have is how it's 100% reliant on its teammates to set up sun for it, and imo only self-supporting sweepers really deserve a set. If you'll notice, one of the only "Chlorophyll" sets we have is for Eggy, and that's because it has the ability to set up sun for itself, unlike other sun abusers like Zard and Shiftry (hence why they don't have full sets). We suggest partners in AC, but a Chlorophyll set basically demands them, which I really don't like. If Victreebel could manually set up sun for itself, I'd totally add it, but unfortunately it can't because of its major 4MSS. Sawsbuck and Shiftry don't have a Chlorophyll set on their analyses either for similar reasons: they're totally viable, but they're also situational enough to just be given a solid mention in OO.

    On the other hand, would something like Sunny Day / SolarBeam / Sludge Bomb / Sleep Powder @ Life Orb be worth testing? It can set up sun manually while still combining most of Victreebel's best traits so it could potentially work.
  4. FLCL

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    i think sunny day / solarbeam / weather ball / sleep powder|sludge bomb @ life orb would work better since fire-types are much less common than poison or steel types but otherwise that seems like a good set to add since it is pretty self sufficient
    scorpdestroyer, Soulgazer and Raseri like this.
  5. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast mfw shmebulock
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    Added the set, ready for checks.
  6. Soulgazer

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    [Overview]
    I would add a mention of Sun somewhere as it allows Victreebel to outspeed a majority of the metagame (even most Choice Scarf users).

    [Other Options]
    In the Giga Drain mention, I would mention Solarbeam with Leaf Storm.

    [Checks and Counters]
    Add that Steel-types won't enjoy taking a Weather ball in sun (or in Probopass and Bastiodon's case, a couple of Solarbeam and Leaf Storm) so they mostly checks the All-Out Attacker set!
  7. Soulgazer

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  8. Hollywood

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    no way is all-out attacker better than the sun set. sun victreebel is the best sun sweeper in NU without a doubt and should absolutely be the first set on-site. also growth victreebel is still really really really good because you don't -have- to set up Growth with it in order for it to be deadly. Modest LO still outspeeds scarf 95s and hits really hard even without a Growth, but if you get a free chance to set up a Growth (which you very often will, especially against stuff like Protect users trying to stall out sun turns), it becomes pretty much impossible to wall.

    tbh I think the sun set should be as follows

    name: Sun Sweeper
    move 1: SolarBeam
    move 2: Weather Ball
    move 3: Sludge Bomb
    move 4: Growth / Sleep Powder
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Chlorophyll
    nature: Modest
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    With this set, Victreebel can decimate the opponent with high-powered attacks and doubled speed in sun and can either sweep or just punch holes through the opponent. I think it's really important to ask before using self-sufficient Victreebel "why am I not using Ludicolo?" 9/10 times, Ludicolo is a far better self-sufficient sweeper for loads of reasons, including its STAB getting boosted by the weather it sets, coverage that hits pretty much everything in the entire game neutrally (and everything in NU neutrally), better bulk and typing which gives it more opportunities to set up etc.

    HOWEVER, Victreebel under sun is one of the scariest Pokemon in NU imo because of the support that its teammates can easily give it. Volbeat can set up eight turns of sun and pivot out with its slow U-turn to bring in Victreebel safely most of the time, as well as open up switches with Encore. Golem and Probopass can set up SR and pop off a Custap Sunny Day right before dying to open up a free switch and all the turns of weather. JUMPLUFF the manly dandelion is my favorite sun-setter to use because of its high speed, fast Sleep Powder, and Memento or U-turn to open up a switch/setup opportunity for Victreebel.

    So yeah, sun Victreebel needs more support to work than what a self-sufficient set would, but Ludicolo covers the self-sufficient sweeper role much much better and more reliably. Plus, it's not like it will usually struggle to break through the opponent's defensive core because you can use teammates that ALSO love sun and can punch holes for your team like Exeggutor and Charizard and Sawsboss etc. Sleep Powder isn't even that necessary on Victreebel imo because with all of Exeggutor, Jumpluff (which as i said fucking owns), Vileplume if you're into that, etc. having sleep moves, it's not hard to have sleep covered elsewhere on the team.

    Yes, sun teams need a lot of support, but so do rain teams; it's a playstyle of its own, and not giving its best sweeper a set for it is a complete disservice to the playstyle.

    tbh I don't even really see a non-sun set being very effective, but I get the desire to have options for Victreebel and won't reject it. plus, Sucker Punch is cool. But it should absolutely be second on the analysis AFTER the dedicated sun set.
    Dat Blast and Soulgazer like this.
  9. Dat Blast

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    Oh yeah sorry bout late getback Treecko , I was busy building a team with Victreebel (and Jumpluff :))))))) but I think I fixed up everything so lgi!
  10. ebeast

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    [SET COMMENTS] (Sun)
    On the mention of Sludge Bomb also mention that it allows Victreebel to hit Charizard and Dragon-type Pokemon such as Fraxure and Zweilous. On the topic of Growth you can say that its offensive presence can allow it to get one off as its bulk won't allow it otherwise.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] (Sun)
    Considering the whole point of the set is to have Sun up I don't think a mention of Leaf Storm is a good idea. I don't see the point of mentioning Sucker Punch either since you already outspeed Scarf 95s in Sun and there is no reason to sacrifice any of its moves for it.

    [Other Options]
    Knock Off seems really random here lol I'd rather just attack walls with Solarbeam or cripple with Sleep Powder. At least Stun Spore can have some surprise value, but Knock Off really does nothing.

    [Checks and Counters]
    I don't think you should even mention Bastiodon in here since it does nothing to Victreebel other than take a hit and maybe Roar it out. Probopass is fine I guess because some use TWave and can at least 3HKO it, but still mention that it's not a good counter at all.

    Should be easy to implement so QC Approved 2/3
  11. Dat Blast

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    Thanks ebeast! This is written!
  12. Hollywood

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    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] (Sun Sweeper)
    • Mention that the reason why the SR setters you mentioned are good is because those ones in particular can also set sun for it.
    [SET COMMENTS] (All-Out Attacker)
    • In the first sentence, don't compare it directly to the first set. This is just a general rule of thumb for all analyses in case set orders ever need to be changed. Imagine if mixed LO Victreebel became standard and it compared it to itself. x)
    • You continue to compare the two sets, but I want to make sure you know that this isn't as big of a deal. Just change the "While not quite as deadly as the first set," to something like "A mixed attacking set is Victreebel's most effective set outside of sun" or something of the like.
    • When you mention Leaf Storm, cut out "doing massive damage to anything that doesn't resist it." It feels very forced and buzzword-y. You can replace it with something like "and it is chosen over Giga Drain because of its immense immediate power."
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] (All-Out Attacker)
    • " Ground-types are also good teammates to set up Stealth Rock, being able to deal with bulky Poison-types, such as Muk, that Victreebel struggles against." This sounds really awkward to me. Rephrasing it will help the AC flow. I'd recommend "Ground-types are also good teammates to set up Stealth Rock, as aside from this role, they can also take on bulky Poison-types, including Muk, which tend to give Victreebel problems."
    [Other Options]
    • When you compare a self-sustaining weather sweeper set to Ludicolo, tell the reader why Ludicolo does it better: Rain boosts its STAB, it functions fine outside of rain, it's a dancing motherfucking pineapple, better bulk and great defensive typing allow the user to set up more easily, etc.
    [Checks and Counters]
    • Add Altaria under Dragon mentions. Natural Cure means it can pivot into a Sleep Powder if necessary, and it can smack Victreebel with sun-boosted Fire Blast.
    Most of this looks really good. My main nit-picks were:
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]


    So make these changes and pass it along to GP.

    QC 3/3
  13. Hollywood

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    oh Dat Blast so you see the above post since edited tags don't alert!
  14. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    Dat Blast
    ^_^
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    [Overview]

    <p>Victreebel is one of the most dangerous sun sweepers in the tier,(AC) thanks to its ability, Chlorophyll, and fantastic offensive capabilities. Its access to powerful (STAB ?_?)moves, such as SolarBeam and Sludge Bomb, alongside great coverage moves such as Weather Ball make , makes it a devastating force under the sun. Unfortunately, its absolute reliance on the sun is also its greatest downfall; reliance on moves such as SolarBeam and Weather Ball means it simply cannot function outside its element, and its sweep can be cut short should sun turns run out. In general, Victreebel struggles to carve itself a niche outside of dedicated sun teams, as its frailty and mediocre Speed without outside of sun often prevent it from being effective. Victreebel can be a terrifying force when supported properly, but keep in mind that it won't always find a spot on your team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Sun Sweeper
    move 1: SolarBeam
    move 2: Weather Ball
    move 3: Sludge Bomb
    move 4: Growth / Sleep Powder
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Chlorophyll
    nature: Modest
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Say hello to one of the deadliest sun sweepers in NU. Under the sun, Victreebel becomes a force to be reckoned with&mdash;with doubled Speed and high-power high-powered moves coming off of base 100 Special Attack, Victreebel can clean up weakened teams with ease. Do note, however, that Victreebel absolutely requires support from teammates to set up sun for it to work function well. SolarBeam is Victreebel's most powerful drawback-free STAB attack, barreling through anything that does not resist it. Weather Ball is an interesting and unique coverage move Victreebel has access to; it attains excellent coverage with SolarBeam,(AC) while also receiving a boost from sun. Sludge Bomb rounds out this set's coverage, providing a strong hit against Dragon-types and Charizard, while also giving Victreebel a strong STAB move to use if sun should not be up. The last slot is generally reserved for Growth; while Victreebel is usually strong enough to sweep without it, if it manages to set up,(AC) it becomes almost impossible to wall. Due to Victreebel's frailty, however, it often does not find room to do this and must resort to offensive pressure. On the other hand, Sleep Powder can also be used as a way to dismantle cripple (incorrect word) a check, while hitting the next switch-in hard.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>It cannot be stressed enough that partners for Victreebel must be able to set up sun for it&mdash;Pokemon such as Golem, Regirock, and Probopass can do this while also setting up Stealth Rock, and can deal with bulky Poison-types that Victreebel struggles against. Probopass in particular (makes for a good partner so it….?) can utilize Volt Switch to bring in Victreebel safely. Prankster users, such as Volbeat and Liepard, are also fine choices to set up sun with their access to , while also being able to disrupt the opponent and bring Victreebel in by using (rephrase this as you see fit but make it so it means this; it's more relevant and what you said was kinda incorrect) Encore and U-turn. Liepard can also threaten Psychic-types, most importantly Trace Gardevoir, with STAB Sucker Punch. Jumpluff is another interesting partner to be considered consider; not only can it set up sun thanks to its high Speed, but it can utilize support moves such as Sleep Powder and Memento, both of which give Victreebel setup opportunities with Growth. Other sun sweepers, such as Charizard, are also useful to take advantage of the weather.</p>

    [SET]
    name: All-Out Attacker
    move 1: Sleep Powder
    move 2: Leaf Storm
    move 3: Sludge Bomb
    move 4: Sucker Punch
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Chlorophyll
    nature: Rash
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>A mixed attacking set is Victreebel's most effective set when it is used outside of a dedicated sun team. Victreebel can punch holes in many teams,(AC) thanks to the sheer power of its moves and Sleep Powder. Sleep Powder is the main move of the set, allowing it to cripple an opposing Pokemon and hit the next switch-in hard; it is also what separates Victreebel from Shiftry, who would otherwise be the superior choice for a moveslot. Leaf Storm is Victreebel's most powerful STAB move, and is chosen over Giga Drain due to its immense immediate power. Sludge Bomb provides great coverage, hitting most resistors of Pokemon that resist Leaf Storm hard, while also providing a more reliable STAB move. Sucker Punch can catch many threats that attempt to revenge kill Victreebel off guard, somewhat mitigating its low Speed.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Hidden Power Fire is considerable with can be considered due to its ability to hit Metang hard, but it hardly covers anything else. Encore can potentially be useful to support teammates and disrupt the opposing team, but Sleep Powder generally accomplishes this. Victreebel appreciates free switch-ins due to its frailty, making slow pivots,(AC) such as Probopass, Eelektross, and Musharna,(AC) useful teammates. Probopass can also set up Stealth Rock, allowing Victreebel to secure the 2HKO against standard Mandibuzz with Sludge Bomb, and 2HKO Musharna with Leaf Storm (maybe specify with spatk drop?). Ground-types are also good teammates to set up Stealth Rock, as aside from this role they are able to deal with bulky Poison-types, such as Muk, that can give Victreebel problems. Fighting-types such as Sawk and Gurdurr can handle special walls for Victreebel, making them solid partners. Water-types such as Samurott and Carracosta also show potential(what do you mean? are they good or bad? this is worded weirdly js), being able to deal with Steel-types, such as Metang, and lure in walls such as Alomomola and Tangela for Victreebel to take advantage of.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>A Swords Dance set might seem plausible at first, surprising special walls and using Sleep Powder to set up, but Shiftry performs this role better due to its access to STAB Sucker Punch and Nature Power. Victreebel could can use Sunny Day to become a self-supporting sweeper, but Rain Dance Ludicolo does this better as the latter has a much easier time setting up with its better bulk, and has can use rain-boosted Hydro Pumps to clean up. Giga Drain can provide a more reliable Grass-type STAB move and for recovery, but SolarBeam and or Leaf Storm's make for better choices as their additional power is more important, and Victreebel is too frail to make good use of the recovery. Power Whip can be used on either set, but doesn't hit anything harder than its Victreebel's other moves would. Stun Spore can spread paralysis, but Victreebel is too frail for this to be worth using.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>It is difficult to truly counter Victreebel, especially in sun, under sun. This is thanks to its doubled Speed under sun, great power, and access to Sleep Powder. Bulky Poison-types such as Garbodor and Muk make for solid responses, as they can tank any one hit and retaliate back with their respective STAB moves (they just have one STAB). Roselia can even absorb Sleep Powder thanks to Natural Cure, though Weather Ball easily 2HKOes it. <Dragon-types such as Dragonair, Altaria, and Zweilous are by far the best counters to Victreebel, as they do not fear Sleep Powder and can either set up or phaze it out.> I'd suggest moving this before the poison-types part Probopass can also tank a hit or two from Victreebel, though it cannot do much back in return.</p>

    <p>Without the sun, however, Victreebel becomes much easier to handle, as it is relatively slow and quite frail. Faster Pokemon that can take a Sucker Punch can easily check it, such as Charizard and Braviary, can easily check it. Sawk and Primeape resist Sucker Punch and can retaliate with Ice Punch&mdash;with proper prediction, Primeape can even switch in on Sleep Powder thanks to Vital Spirit!(really feels unnecessary since a period would suffice, but keep if you like) Priority users such as Kangaskhan and Skuntank make for great checks, easily picking off a weakened Victreebel. Audino and Lickilicky can also take hits from it rather well, though they must watch out for boosted SolarBeams and Sleep Powder.</p>

    Sorry for the excessive comments and subjective changes(some changing the meaning of the sentence itself), but i really feel you can clean this up a bit. Implement what you think you should, and keep out the rest, but I'd recommend implementing all of it.
    ^_^
    GP APPROVED 1/2
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2013
  15. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast mfw shmebulock
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogon

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    Ty Kingler, ready for #2
  16. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte On a short LoA
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator
    Mentor

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    Dat Blast
    ADD
    REMOVE
    (COMMENTS)
    Done (open)

    [Overview]

    <p>Victreebel is one of the most dangerous sun sweepers in the tier,(RC) thanks to its ability, Chlorophyll, and its fantastic offensive capabilities. Its access to powerful STAB moves,(RC) such as SolarBeam and Sludge Bomb,(RC) alongside great coverage moves such as Weather Ball,(RC) makes it a devastating force under the sun. Unfortunately, its absolute reliance on the sun is also its greatest downfall; reliance on moves such as SolarBeam and Weather Ball means it simply cannot function outside its element, and its sweep can be cut short should the sun turns run out. In general, Victreebel struggles to carve itself a niche outside of dedicated sun teams, as its frailty and mediocre Speed outside of sun often prevent it from being effective. Victreebel can be a terrifying force when supported properly, but keep in mind that it won't always find a spot on your team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Sun Sweeper
    move 1: SolarBeam
    move 2: Weather Ball
    move 3: Sludge Bomb
    move 4: Growth / Sleep Powder
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Chlorophyll
    nature: Modest
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Say hello to one of the deadliest sun sweepers in NU. Under the sun, Victreebel becomes a force to be reckoned with&mdash;with doubled Speed and high-powered moves coming off of a base 100 Special Attack, Victreebel can clean up weakened teams with ease. Do note, however, that Victreebel absolutely requires support from teammates to set up sun for it to function. SolarBeam is Victreebel's most powerful drawback-free STAB attack, barreling through anything that does not resist it. Weather Ball is an interesting and unique coverage move Victreebel has access to; it attains excellent coverage with SolarBeam, while also receiving a boost from sun. Sludge Bomb rounds out this set's coverage, providing a strong attack to use hit against Dragon-types and Charizard,(RC) while also giving Victreebel a strong STAB move to use if sun is should not be up. The last slot is generally reserved for Growth; while Victreebel is usually strong enough to sweep without it, if it does manages to set up, it will becomes almost impossible to wall. Due to Victreebel's frailty, however, it often does not find room get the opportunity to do this and must resort to offensive pressure. On the other hand, Sleep Powder can also be used as a way to cripple a check, while hitting setting Victreebel up to hit the next switch-in hard.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>It cannot be stressed enough that partners for Victreebel must be able to set up sun for it&mdash;Pokemon such as Golem, Regirock, and Probopass can do this while also setting up Stealth Rock,(RC) and can deal with bulky Poison-types that Victreebel struggles against. Probopass in particular makes for a good partner, as it can utilize Volt Switch to bring in Victreebel safely. Prankster users,(RC) such as Volbeat and Liepard,(RC) are also fine choices to set up sun as they can disrupt opposing teams and support Victreebel with Encore and U-turn. Liepard can also threaten Psychic-types, most importantly Trace Gardevoir, with STAB Sucker Punch. Jumpluff is another interesting partner to consider; not only can it set up sun thanks to its high Speed, but it can utilize support moves such as Sleep Powder and Memento, both of which give Victreebel setup opportunities for with Growth. Other sun sweepers,(RC) such as Charizard,(RC) are also useful to take advantage of the weather.</p>

    [SET]
    name: All-Out Attacker
    move 1: Sleep Powder
    move 2: Leaf Storm
    move 3: Sludge Bomb
    move 4: Sucker Punch
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Chlorophyll
    nature: Rash
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>A mixed attacking set is Victreebel's most effective set when it is used outside of a dedicated sun team. Victreebel can punch holes in many teams, thanks to the sheer power of its moves and Sleep Powder. Sleep Powder is the main move of the set, allowing it to cripple an opposing Pokemon and hit the next switch-in hard; it is also what separates distinguishes Victreebel from Shiftry, who would otherwise be a superior choice. Leaf Storm is Victreebel's most powerful STAB move, and is chosen over Giga Drain due to its immense and immediate power. Sludge Bomb provides great coverage, hitting most Pokemon that resist Leaf Storm hard,(AC) while also providing a more reliable STAB move. Sucker Punch can catch many threats that attempt to revenge kill Victreebel off guard, somewhat mitigating Victreebel's its low Speed.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Hidden Power Fire can be considered because of with its ability to hit Metang hard, but it hardly doesn't really covers anything else. (repetitive words) Encore can potentially be useful to support teammates and disrupt the opposing team, but Sleep Powder generally accomplishes this already. Victreebel appreciates free opportunities to switch-(RemoveHyphen) ins due to its frailty, making slow pivots,(RC) such as Probopass, Eelektross, and Musharna,(RC) useful teammates. Probopass can also set up Stealth Rock, allowing Victreebel to secure the 2HKO against standard Mandibuzz with Sludge Bomb,(RC) and 2HKO Musharna with Leaf Storm (factoring in the Special Attack drop). Ground-types are also good teammates to set up Stealth Rock, as aside from this role they are also able to deal with bulky Poison-types,(RC) such as Muk,(RC) that can give Victreebel problems. Fighting-types such as Sawk and Gurdurr can handle special walls for Victreebel, making them solid partners. Water-types such as Samurott and Carracosta are also good options, being able to deal with Steel-types,(RC) such as Metang,(RC) and lure in walls such as Alomomola and Tangela for Victreebel to take advantage of set up on.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>A Swords Dance set might seem plausible at first, surprising special walls and using Sleep Powder to set up, but Shiftry better performs this role better due to its access to Nature Power and STAB Sucker Punch. (the wording implies that Shiftry gets STAB on Nature Power, which isn't true) STAB Sucker Punch and Nature Power. Victreebel can also use Sunny Day to become a self-supporting sweeper, but Rain Dance Ludicolo is a better Pokemon for this role does this better as it the latter has a much easier time setting up with its better bulk,(RC) and can use rain-boosted Hydro Pumps to clean up. Giga Drain can provide a more reliable Grass-type STAB move and HP recovery, but SolarBeam and Leaf Storm are superior as the power is more important,(RC) and Victreebel is too frail to make good use of the recovery. Power Whip can be used on either set, but doesn't hit anything harder than Victreebel's other moves would. Stun Spore can spread paralysis, but Victreebel is too frail for this to be worth using.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>It is difficult to truly counter Victreebel, especially under sun. This is thanks to its doubled Speed under sun, great power, and access to Sleep Powder. (this phrase is unnecessary; you've already elaborated on that in the overview / set comments) Dragon-types such as Dragonair, Altaria, and Zweilous are by far the best counters to Victreebel, as they do not fear Sleep Powder and can either set up on it or phaze it out. Bulky Poison-types such as Garbodor and Muk make for solid responses, as they can tank any one hit and retaliate back with their respective STAB moves. Roselia can even absorb Sleep Powder thanks to Natural Cure, though Weather Ball easily 2HKOes it. Probopass can also tank a hit or two from Victreebel, though it cannot do much back in return.</p>

    <p>Without the sun, however, Victreebel becomes much easier to handle, as it is relatively slow and quite frail. Faster Pokemon that can take a Sucker Punch, such as Charizard and Braviary, can easily check it. Sawk and Primeape resist Sucker Punch and can retaliate with Ice Punch&mdash;with proper prediction, Primeape can even switch in on Sleep Powder thanks to Vital Spirit.(AddPeriod)!(RemoveExclamationPoint) (I don't want to seem like a sour puss but that exclamation point is unnecessary lmao) Priority users such as Kangaskhan and Skuntank make for great checks, easily picking off a weakened Victreebel. Audino and Lickilicky can take hits from it rather well, though they must watch out for boosted SolarBeams and Sleep Powder.</p>


    Nice job. There were relatively few grammar issues, so I mainly patched up your prose. There was a severe case of overuse of commas- if you'll notice, I took a lot of time removing many of the unnecessary commas throughout the analysis to improve the flow of the writing. Other than that, it was well written. Nice work, everybody!

    GP 2/2

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2013
  17. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast mfw shmebulock
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    Thanks and congrats Electrolyte even though /late :)

    Ready for upload whenever possible
  18. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
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    uploaded!

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