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Victreebel

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by CoI, Sep 30, 2010.

  1. CoI

    CoI

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2005
    Messages:
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    [pimg]71[/pimg]


    80/105 /65/100/60/70

    Abilities
    Chlorophyll
    Gluttony: A held Berry is eaten earlier than usual when HP is low. - Thanks, but I'll stick with Chlorophyll

    Learn
    Show Hide

    Stockpile
    Swallow
    Spit Up
    Vine Whip
    Sleep Powder
    Sweet Scent
    Razor Leaf
    Grass Mixer
    Leaf Storm
    Leaf Blade


    TM/HM
    Show Hide

    Toxic
    Venom Shock
    Hidden Power
    Sunny Day

    Hyper Beam
    Protect
    Frustration
    Solar Beam
    Return
    Double Team
    Reflect
    Sludge Bomb
    Facade
    Rest
    Attract
    Thief
    Sing A Round
    Energy Ball
    Giga Impact
    Flash
    Swords Dance
    Grass Knot

    Swagger
    Substitute
    Cut


    Egg
    Show Hide

    Encore
    Synthesis
    Leech Life
    Ingrain
    Magical Leaf
    Worry Seed
    Tickle
    Weather Ball
    Bullet Seed
    Natural Gift
    Giga Drain
    Clear Smog
    Power Whip


    Pre-Evo
    Show Hide

    Growth
    Wrap
    Poisonpowder
    Stun Spore
    Acid
    Knock Off
    Gastro Acid

    Slam
    Wring Out


    Victreebel- a veteran of the Pokerealm who has barely been viable since the beginning. Can it finally find its niche? Much like the rest of you I have been scouring over stats and movepools the last few days. One of the first Pokes I happen to look at was Victreebel and immediately I noticed Power Whip. With that 120BP Phys move Victy really justifies its 105 Atk stat (highest of all PW users). Other than that, it's pretty much left the same. But some changes to other moves and Pokemon (see: Growth; Ninetales) the flytrap might be able to to at least break into UU.

    Can't do anything about the paper thin defense. The hope is that Sunny Day is already set up, but it might be able to do SD support also. It has decent Speed to utilize SD although its far from the fastest Phyll'er. The thing I think Victreebel can excel at is being unpredictable. The movepool is not fabulous, but the utility of Victreebel can range from straight up band/specs attacker, mixed attacker, boosting attacker, or status inducer/utility.

    The reason I have a little faith in this previously never-used is that Venusaur has long been considered a very solid candidate in the UU tier. I finally got around to reading the Venusaur thread and saw that people were geeked because he might be able to keep Power Whip and get Chlorophyll. The Other V is very similar in movepool, attacking stats, and Ability (although Venus is 10 base points faster) but still offers enough to set it part by hitting a little harder.

    Most of the old movesets still work so I'll do a couple featuring Power Whip
    Mixed
    @Life Orb
    4HP/142Atk/110 SpAtk/ 252Sp - would need tweaking
    Lonely or Mild
    Power Whip
    Leaf Storm/Solar Beam
    Sludge Bomb
    HP Fire

    Best user of the unheralded Whip/Bomb combo.

    @Choice Band
    4HP/252Atk/252Sp
    Adamant
    Power Whip
    HP Fire
    Return
    Knock Off/Facade

    :D Its a stretch

    Booster
    @Leftovers
    4HP/252Atk/252Sp
    Adamant/Lonely
    Encore/Sleep Powder
    Swords Dance/Growth
    Power Whip
    Return/Sludge Bomb

    Honestly could sweep (a team of Swamperts) if set up nicely.

    Toxic Trickery
    252 SpAtk/252 Sp
    @Leftovers
    Sleep Powder/Stun Spore/Knock Off/Gastro Acid
    Toxic
    Venom Shock
    Power Whip/Solar Beam/HP Fire

    Get the enemy to switch into Toxic, then Shock them...probably too gimmicky.


    Wuddaya think? Is this plant finally worth using because of Power Whip and the awesome ability? Or still mediocre as ever?
  2. UnholyCrab1

    UnholyCrab1

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    58
    If you're on a Sunny Day team, you should go with Weather Ball over HP Fire.
  3. shipship

    shipship

    Joined:
    May 17, 2008
    Messages:
    177
    This should be the main set:

    Victreebel @ Life Orb
    Modest, Chlorophyll
    252 SpAtk, speed depends on how many scarfed pokes you want to outrun
    ~ Grass Knot
    ~ Weather Ball
    ~ HP Ground
    ~ Sleep Powder

    Use only with Drought support obviously. Grass Knot is the best STAB attack because SolarBeam will get owned vs weather changers, and we don't want to kill our own sweeping potential with Leaf Storm.

    HP Ground is needed to hit other Fire types, especially Heatran. Sludge Bomb is not needed because we have pseudo-STAB Weather Ball. The only reason to use Victreebel over say, Venusaur is that Victreebel has Weather Ball, freeing up Hidden Power so you can use another type (ground).
  4. Kaleidoscope

    Kaleidoscope

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2007
    Messages:
    72
    Victreebel was OK in rby given it knew razor leaf (too bad about being psychic weak though). It's taken 4 generations to get the 100% crit moves again, but we made it.

    I think a mixed sweeper set with growth, power whip, giga drain/synthesis and hp ground/weather ball would work nicely
  5. XxSaiyanxLordxX

    XxSaiyanxLordxX

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2010
    Messages:
    44
    Unfortunately it looks like victreebel will just be used on sunny day teams this gen, at least ninetales is here to make sunny day more common so it will see more usage.
  6. V4LOVER

    V4LOVER

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    116
    Just as XxSaiyanxLordxX said, I predict Victreebel will be paired with Ninetales - to activate Chlorophyll and make Weather Ball viable. Not only does Ninetales provide Sun, but Victreebel resists all of Ninetales' weaknesses.

    Gastro Acid could be exploited to compliment Victreebel's resistance to certain types - switch in on, say, Doryuuzu or Drizzle Politoed and erase any trace (lol) of those abilities (for these examples, weakening Doryuuzu and eradicating Rain, allowing Victreebel to PW it out and send in Ninetales for infinite Sun.)
  7. Arc Tech

    Arc Tech

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
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    741
    Actually Victreebel only resists one of Ninetails' three weaknesses- the one which is halved by sun anyway, water. It's only neutral to both rock and ground.

    If you meant it the other way, while Ninetails does resist ice and fire, she doesn't resist flyign or psychic.

    Also, gastro acid is nullified by switching out- they get their abilities back.
  8. TickingSeedotBomb

    TickingSeedotBomb

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
    Messages:
    236
    He gets Power Whip now? took long enough considering he has that huge whip on his head. I'm glad he uses it other than hanging on trees...

    Too bad he didn't get all that much to play with and his speed is lacking and so are his defenses. At least Drought ninetales will help him! and if Ninetales ends up in OU there's always vulpix to help in lower tier play. Something to boast over Politoed.
  9. V4LOVER

    V4LOVER

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
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    116
    I can never get straight the true resistances of grass. X|

    Actually it still affects Doryuuzu - if it stays in, it's weakened. If it switches out, you don't have to worry about it until it switches in again, in which you can GA again.
  10. HeavyOctillery

    HeavyOctillery

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
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    139
    It took this long, but FINALLY it gets that abusable STAB. ^_^ Leaf Blade was an ok start, but why it didn't get Power Whip last gen, I dunno.
  11. Badgerzftw

    Badgerzftw

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2010
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    76
    Ugh. Power whip is so cool but the fact that it's an egg move means that you can't use it with 4th gen move tutor sucker punch (as far as I know), which is really sad :(
  12. Azure Demon

    Azure Demon Guest

    Don't count gluttony out yet it could be nice witch salac berry
    I love this guy and always have ever since gen 1
  13. BlueCookies

    BlueCookies April Fools 2009 Participant
    is a VGC 2012 Masters World Champion

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    going to be even stronger than last year on team chaos v.2
  14. Farewell

    Farewell

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    Victreebel: @ Life Orb
    252 Atk / 252 Sp.A / 4 Spe
    Hasty

    Growth
    Power Whip
    Weather Ball
    Venom Shock

    This set needs Toxic Spikes and Drought to work, but nonetheless can really hit hard when used correctly. Venom Shock gets 195 Base Power (more than Power Whip), and backed by Weather Ball [Fire] can handle Grass, Bug, Ice, Steel, etc. types. Remember, Growth works like Cheer Up, boosting both stats.
  15. The Hitman

    The Hitman

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    too bad one of my fave pokes didn't get all that much. Power Whip is nice I guess. Looks like I'll still be running the same basic set from last gen, Sleep Powder/SD/Power Whip/Sucker Punch. No idea why that set wasn't even on the analysis, it was pretty threatening. 678 attack after an SD, Life Orb, a fairly accurate sleep move, and a priority attack on par with Cario's ES made this thing a very nice late game sweeper
  16. CoI

    CoI

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2005
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    I completely disregarded Weather Ball, thats actually pretty clever but sadly doesn't run off Attack stat. Still a 100BP Fire attack is nice to have while still having Hidden Power open.

    First its probably illegal, second I said most old sets still work. That's why its not in the analysis
  17. Farewell

    Farewell

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    If used on a Sunny Day team [most necessary], giving it Bulb (boosts Attack +1 when hit by a Water attack) would e very useful.

    For 1, in Sunny Day, and with its Resistance, Water Attacks do 1/4 of their damage to Victreebel. For 2, you switch Switch Victreebel in, which makes it easier, especially if teammates are Fire types. For 3, it is essentially a Choice Band without being locked into a move.
  18. breh

    breh ⁰ ゝ⁰
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributor

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    It's fully legal; it was just outclassed by Venusaur in gen 4 (assuming no sunny day) due to Leaf Blade < Power Whip and lower overall stats.

    EDIT: NVM think before I write lol; yeah sucker punch is a 4th gen tutor and power whip is 5th gen egg move.. damn it

    Now, however, Victreebel can make full use of its great attack with Power Whip. This makes it at least a little bit better, but it still has big problems with either Fire-types or its meh speed no matter how you look at it. Exeggutor gets STAB Psychic off of the highest SpA in Sunny Day, Tangrowth gets EQ off of good attack, but Victreebel gets nothing but sleep powder (which is an unreliable way to get rid of fire types) or has to go mixed with Sludge Bomb (which defeats the point of Power Whip).

    Other problems include that literally every egg move victreebel has is incompatible with another. Encore, Power Whip, and Weather Ball are all incompatible with one another.
  19. Benlisted

    Benlisted

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    Victrebell may have a higher Atk than most Sunny Day abusers but its movepool is awful, put simply. Tangrowth outclasses it by far in that and the stats department, making this pretty unlikely to emerge from UU imo.
  20. Ich777ich

    Ich777ich

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    Yeah I agree with that, Tangrowth is one the best Sunny day sweepers in UU. However, even with the chlorophyll boost he was still outrun by common choice scarfers because of his low base speed. This Victreebel's major advantage over Tangrowth, and Weather ball is the other.
  21. Benlisted

    Benlisted

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    The speed is true, though a switch to Jolly for Tangrowth can help that. But if we're talking speed Shiftry, Leafeon, Venusaur and more all now compete with it due to their good speed. Weather Ball's increased BP is useful, but that promotes a more specially based set at which Vic again does not stand out from its competition.
  22. Farewell

    Farewell

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    It doesn't stand out?

    So a set of:

    Victreebel: @ Life Orb/Focus Sash
    252 Spe/SpA
    Chlorophyll

    Solar Beam
    Weather Ball
    Venom Shock
    Growth / Sleep Powder

    Doesn't work?

    Hmm... even with Toxic Spikes for Venom Shock?

    That's such a shame...
  23. leingodf8

    leingodf8

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    Meh, a growth set going something like
    Hasty
    252 Spe, 180 Att, 76 SpA
    Growth
    Leaf Blade
    Sucker Punch
    Sludge Bomb/Weather ball

    Not like leaf blade was a bad physical grass move to begin with, so you sacrifice the power of power whip, and gain both the ability to use sucker punch (from 4th gen tutor), and reliability
  24. Cristhianmlr

    Cristhianmlr

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
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    Good luck with the breeding, it's impossible that a Bellsprout learn both WB and PW by Egg move legally.

    And Venom Shock have 65 PB, so increases to 130 BP.

    This is Because HP Fire are over WB (more PB and more PP).

    Well, I'm happy by the newly PW gifted to Vict. However, is nearly the same thing that we know from nearly 15 years.

    Anyway, this Generation look like a Weather War with the new abilities of Politoed and Ninetales.

    OK, This is a Mixed set by breeding (Tangrowht as father).
    Item: Black Sludge (yes, frekin').
    Nature: Naive.
    Hability: Chlorophyll.

    - Power Whip.
    - Ingrain.
    - HP Fire.
    - Sludge Bomb.

    We need support of Sunny Day.
    Ingrain aports two very nice things:
    1.- Few recovery.
    2.- Most importantly, inmunity to Whirlwinders.
    Also, whit this, you have chances to OHKO Skarmorys with HP Fire in the SD, and you can go faster than beacuse Chlorophyll. It's your best weapon against Steel-types.

    Power Whip is strong and have STAB. SB give STAB and can Poison.

    See you.
  25. IcyMan28

    IcyMan28

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    Ingrain is a terrible move to use on any pokemon, it basically forces you to stay in and lose against whatever check they bring in. Heatran, Shandera, Urgamoth, etc all set up all over that set.

    As others have noted, the higher base speed, weather ball, and high mixed offensive stats are what allow Victreebel to shine. So why not put those to use in a Chlorophyll set?

    Victreebel@Life Orb
    Hasty/Naive; 252 Atk / 44 SpA / 212 Speed

    HP Ground
    Power Whip
    Weather Ball
    Growth / Sleep Powder

    The EVs give Victreebel maximum atk, as Power Whip is its main attacking move. The investment in SpA allows it to do further damage with Weather Ball and HP Ground, the latter of which is useful for hitting Shandera and Heatran. While Growth provides Victreebel with the means to boost both of its stats and potentially sweep, Sleep Powder is excellent; if Darkrai has taught us anything, its that a fast sleep is invaluable. Notably, it allows Victreebel to sleep anything it can't deal with, such as Salamence, Gyarados, Urgamoth, etc.

    The speed EVs and nature let it outpace Jolly ScarfChomp. Hasty is useful as it preserves Victreebel's SpD, which helps it take Surfs and Thunderbolts with greater ease. However, as Sun effectively gives the pitcher plant a 4x Water resistance, Naive is an option for weaker fighting attacks and priority.

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