Victreebel

[AlphaSpade]

I really don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but it looks like Power Whip + Weather Ball is illegal, since Venusaur nor Tangrowth can learn Weather Ball.

However, on the bright side, Growth appears to be a +2 boost to both stats in the sun. So all hope isnt lost.

Victreebel @ Life Orb
Chlorophyl
Naive/Hasty Nature
252 Atk/40 Sp. Atk/216 Speed
~Growth
~Leaf Blade/Power Whip
~Weather Ball/HP Fire
~HP Ground/Sludge Bomb

The speed puts Victreebel at 251 (502 in sun), to outpace ScarfChomp. A few more EVs into speed for Scarf Kojondo would also be fairly reasonable. A +Atk nature can be used for more power, but you would get outpaced by way too many scarfers (Garchomp, Sazandora, Genosekuto, etc,)

Some Calcs:
+2 Leaf Blade Vs. 252/252+ Blissey : (83.61% - 98.46%)
+2 Leaf Blade Vs. 188/104 Snorlax : (80.72% - 95.03%)
+2 Leaf Blade Vs. 0/0 Garchomp: (95.81% - 113.13%)

+0 Weather Ball Vs. 252/0 Metagross (86.81% - 102.75%)
+0 Weather Ball Vs 252/0 Celebi (71.78% - 84.65%)
+0 Weather Ball Vs 252/252+ Skarm (77.84% - 92.22%)
+0 Weather Ball Vs 252/0 Skarm (116.77% - 137.72%)
+0 Weather Ball Vs 0/0 Jirachi (85.04% - 100.29%)

+2 Sludge Bomb Vs 0/0 Sanzadora (88.89% - 104.63%)
+2 Sludge Bomb Vs 0/0 Dragonite (81.11% - 95.67%)
+2 Sludge Bomb Vs 252/252+ DNite (66.08% - 77.97%)
+2 Sludge Bomb Vs 252/0 Emboar (93.63% - 110.38%)

 

[alphatron]

In a pitiful attempt to make a set, I came up with this.

Victreebel @ Life orb
Chlorophyll
Naive nature
120 HP/252 atk/80 sp. atk/56 speed
OR
120 HP/80 atk/252 sp. atk/56 speed

Growth
Leaf Blade
Weatherball
HP Ground/Sucker Punch

The speed is just enough to outspeed scarftran whom you OHKO with HP Ground after a growth boost. If you're worried about other scarfed pokemon instead, then you can opt for sucker punch instead. Weatherball should handle most of Victreebel's threats who are weak to it or do not resist it after a growth boost. Leaf Blade is there for physical STAB.

The calcs above make me want to run Power Whip over Leaf Blade though which has the added boost needed to OHKO what Leaf Blade cannot. The problem with that is that you lose Weatherball and Sucker Punch. I guess you can always run Sludge Bomb and HP Fire instead.

 

[Farewell]

That's not a bad idea.

I also think Sleep Powder could be useful...

 

[TorchicBlaziken]

Victreebel could be great in NU with Vulpix support. He won't be too good in OU, so I figure he'll stay where he is. Those calculations may seem impressive, but none of the Pokémon in them are what you would call physical walls.

 

[alphatron]

What walls Victreebel with Sun support in OU? Burungeru? Nattorei? Maybe Heatran if you aren't carrying HP Ground.

 

[Banryu]

Heatran will wall you if you don't run HP Ground, and any non-grounded Dragons will if you don't have HP Ice. :0

 

[alphatron]

Aside from Dragonite, the offensive dragons will not be walling a +2 weatherball at base 150 power during sunlight if you factor in stealth rock. Mence runs Naive and occasionally kingdras do too. Speaking of Kingdra, +2 Leaf Blade OHKOs.

Lati@s is a problem without sucker punch.

Victreebel's main problem is setting up a growth without running sleep powder, as his defenses are awful even with screen support.

 

[Banryu]

Aside from Dragonite, the offensive dragons will not be walling a +2 weatherball at base 150 power during sunlight if you factor in stealth rock. Mence runs Naive and occasionally kingdras do too. Speaking of Kingdra, +2 Leaf Blade OHKOs.

Lati@s is a problem without sucker punch.

Victreebel's main problem is setting up a growth without running sleep powder, as his defenses are awful even with screen support.

Perhaps, perhaps. Is the same not (potentially) true of Power Whip against Latias, then?

 

[alphatron]

I haven't tried but I'll do the calcs once I get on the wii. I run leaf blade over Power Whip. Only because I prefer weatherball as it allows me to run HP Ground and is stronger than HP Fire.

 

[Benlisted]

Victreebel could be great in NU with Vulpix support. He won't be too good in OU, so I figure he'll stay where he is. Those calculations may seem impressive, but none of the Pokémon in them are what you would call physical walls.

In all honesty I doubt he'll be lower than UU this Gen, as he is the most powerful mixed Sun sweeper after Tangrowth, who is slow as balls even with Jolly. If Sun teams are not popular in OU (once DW Vulpix is released) then he will not ofc be OU, but if they are then he stands a reasonable chance of being one.

Aside from Dragonite, the offensive dragons will not be walling a +2 weatherball at base 150 power during sunlight if you factor in stealth rock. Mence runs Naive and occasionally kingdras do too. Speaking of Kingdra, +2 Leaf Blade OHKOs.

Lati@s is a problem without sucker punch.

Victreebel's main problem is setting up a growth without running sleep powder, as his defenses are awful even with screen support.

Actually, his best option for hitting all of the Dragons barring the part Ground types (which are covered better with a Grass move) is the neutral Sludge Bomb. With a Growth it can do significant damage even to a defensive Latias for example.

 

[SupremeDirt]

I... saw Solarbeam on a moveset.

Look, Solarbeam may look good under Sun. However, your opponent just switched in Tyranitar on it, and got a free Dragon Dance, laughing off the Solarbeam.

SOLARBEAM is TRASH.

 

[TorchicBlaziken]

I... saw Solarbeam on a moveset.

Look, Solarbeam may look good under Sun. However, your opponent just switched in Tyranitar on it, and got a free Dragon Dance, laughing off the Solarbeam.

SOLARBEAM is TRASH.

I didn't know Tyranitar was allowed in UU.

Because you won't be using Victreebel well until it has its own tier, this should be a given.

 

[SupremeDirt]

I didn't know Tyranitar was allowed in UU.

UU does not exist.

 

[Banryu]

Perhaps, perhaps. Is the same not (potentially) true of Power Whip against Latias, then?

Owait, scratch this, I just noticed the post about how Power Whip is illegal with Weather Ball. :0 Weather Ball is totally a necessity, 'cause you NEED that extra HP coverage.

SupremeDirt is right, Solarbeam is no good when you have such strong physical Grass STABs. :\

 

[SupremeDirt]

Owait, scratch this, I just noticed the post about how Power Whip is illegal with Weather Ball. :0 Weather Ball is totally a necessity, 'cause you NEED that extra HP coverage.

SupremeDirt is right, Solarbeam is no good when you have such strong physical Grass STABs. :\

Solarbeam is trash regardless. Nothing should ever run Solarbeam outside of a metagame where the only auto-weather is Sun. Not even Little Cup fulfills this, as Hippopotas.

 

[TorchicBlaziken]

It might be good in its own tier if Abomasnow is banned from it, since no one in their right mind would use Snover.

 

[Farewell]

Honestly, it's understanding how it can be mixed (Weatherball + Leaf Blade + Hidden Power + Sleep Powder / Growth) that allows Victreebel to escape from being outclassed.

Sucker Punch, and possibly Encore also aid in providing useful moves for Victreebel.

 

[alphatron]

Encore on Victreebel is friggin hilarious. You could run it over Sleep Powder if you can predict set up moves and such. Since this is Victreebel we're talking about though...

 

[Lee]

It might be good in its own tier if Abomasnow is banned from it, since no one in their right mind would use Snover.

Well, chances are you'll be using Vulpix so I don't see why Snover is so absurd. The current PO DW statistics make Ninetales a comfortable OU. Sure, we're a long way away from creating UU, I'm just saying don't expect Drought Ninetales to make the cut if recent trends on PO are anything to go by.

I can't see Victreebel ever getting the chance to use Growth unless you run Sleep Powder as well, which leaves you with just two attacks and therefore rather easily walled. Venusaur will see more use because, despite significantly lower attack, he has much better bulk to assist him in getting off that Growth.

 

[alphatron]

Lee is right. Growth Victreebel wasn't winning me any battles until I put Sleep Powder on it. You have to run screens or get lucky and switch in on something that poses no offensive threat whatsoever. Like a Cresselia or something. Or a Forretress setting up toxic spikes that isn't carrying explosion. >_>

 

[SupremeDirt]

Lee is right. Growth Victreebel wasn't winning me any battles until I put Sleep Powder on it. You have to run screens or get lucky and switch in on something that poses no offensive threat whatsoever. Like a Cresselia or something. Or a Forretress setting up toxic spikes that isn't carrying explosion. >_>

It's very likely it won't be carrying Explosion, due to the nerf, actually. It has far better uses for the moveslot now.

 

[Farewell]

What if it simply carries Focus Sash? (switch in untouched, then survive the hit gauranteed next turn. Growth, and sweep).

Or Balloon? (switch into choiced EQs/Earth powers. Growth on the switch; sweep)

Certain items can allow a free Growth.

 

[Benlisted]

What if it simply carries Focus Sash? (switch in untouched, then survive the hit gauranteed next turn. Growth, and sweep).

Or Balloon? (switch into choiced EQs/Earth powers. Growth on the switch; sweep)

Certain items can allow a free Growth.

The problem with this is it restricts you into using a lead to prevent hazards going up, and also is destroyed by all priority ever.

Sadly Victreebel seems inferior to Venusaur in terms of coverage and ability to take any hit whatsoever..

If it drops to UU expect Vulpix to give it some love, however.

 

[alphatron]

Victreebel's got h9igher attacking stats than Venusaur and weatherball to make it different. And sucker punch.

 

[Benlisted]

Victreebel's got h9igher attacking stats than Venusaur and weatherball to make it different. And sucker punch.

Higher stats make going mixed easier, that's true, but because Vic needs to split its EVs more (Venu may not even run a physical attack) Weather ball may end up being more or less as powerful as Venu's HP Fire. It also has the utility of being able to take out the Nattoreis who may switch into it early-game when Sun is not yet up.

Sucker Punch is pretty great, but it rarely has the moveslots for it and if you explicity need a Sucker Puncher, Shiftry may be better.