Vileplume (NU Analysis) [Uploaded]

Honko

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http://www.smogon.com/dex/dp/pokemon/vileplume/

[OVERVIEW]

Vileplume is a very solid but unspectacular Pokemon in NU. Its Grass / Poison typing isn't ideal for a defensive Pokemon in a metagame where many of the most dangerous attackers are Fire- and Psychic-types, and Vileplume's extremely shallow attacking movepool and low Speed prevent it from being a significant offensive threat. However, while it can't carry a team on its own, Vileplume is still a very effective and common Pokemon thanks to its nice support movepool, balanced combination of bulk and power, and great synergy with other common defensive Pokemon such as Slowking and Regirock. It's not the type of Pokemon that you need to worry about countering when you're building a team, but it will consistently pull its weight when included in a well-built core.

[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Sleep Powder
move 2: Energy Ball
move 3: Sludge Bomb
move 4: Moonlight
item: Leftovers
ability: Chlorophyll
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

Vileplume's nice support movepool and above-average bulk make it a natural fit for a defensive role. It's one of the few viable Pokemon in NU with access to a reliable sleep-inducing move, and it can back that up with reliable recovery and two complementary STAB attacks powered by a solid base 100 Special Attack. Vileplume can't take on NU's top attackers, such as Charizard, Medicham, and Jynx, so you shouldn't rely on it to be your primary defensive Pokemon, but it pairs very well with other common defensive Pokemon. In particular, the combination of Slowking, Regirock, and Vileplume is a popular and effective defensive core. Whether it's as part of that core or in some other team composition, Vileplume brings a lot to the table with its ability to counter Grass-types such as Shiftry, check most other physical attackers, put a dangerous Pokemon to sleep, and absorb Toxic Spikes.

It's important to note that defensive Vileplume faces some competition from Meganium, which has better defenses and arguably a better defensive typing for NU, and Roselia, which is one of the few Pokemon in the tier that can set up Spikes. However, Meganium is significantly weaker offensively and lacks a secondary STAB move to discourage Fire- and Grass-types from switching in, and Roselia's much lower HP and Defense stats leave it unable to take on any of the physical attackers that Vileplume beats. Furthermore, neither of them can use a reliable sleep-inducing move (unless Roselia forgoes Spikes, but that would mean giving up its biggest selling point). Vileplume's balanced combination of Sleep Powder, good defenses, and just enough offense makes it the best choice for many teams.

[ADDITIONAL SET COMMENTS]

The nature and EV spread focus on Defense because Vileplume's typing is better suited to taking on physical attackers in a tier where Fire, Psychic, and Ice are all common special attacking types. However, you can switch to a more specially defensive spread of 252 HP / 60 Def / 196 SpD with a Calm nature if you want Vileplume to be able to better take on Haunter and Water-type special attackers such as Gorebyss and Golduck. The 60 Defense EVs in that spread allow Vileplume to always survive Choice Band Tauros's Double-Edge after Stealth Rock and respond by putting it to sleep.

Vileplume learns several other useful support moves, most notably Aromatherapy and Stun Spore, but it's difficult to find a place for them on this set. Although Sleep Powder is probably Vileplume's best move, you can drop it for another support move if your team is built around spreading paralysis or poison or if you're using another sleep inducer, such as Jynx, on your team. Dropping Sludge Bomb is also an option, but this makes Vileplume a less effective counter to offensive Grass-types and also makes it easier for opposing Fire- and Flying-types to switch in. Vileplume can also use Leech Seed in place of Moonlight for a more aggressive type of healing at the expense of reliable longevity.

This set needs teammates that can counter the powerful Fire- and Psychic-types that dominate NU, such as Charizard, Medicham, and Jynx, as well as the more powerful physical attackers that Vileplume can't switch into, such as Tauros and Dodrio. As mentioned earlier, Slowking and Regirock can counter all of those threats and more, and they also appreciate Vileplume's ability to counter Grass-types and absorb Toxic Spikes. Other good options for defensive teammates include Hypno, Gligar, and Dusclops.

[SET]
name: Sunny Day
move 1: Sunny Day
move 2: Solar Beam
move 3: Sludge Bomb
move 4: Sleep Powder
item: Life Orb
ability: Chlorophyll
nature: Modest
evs: 76 HP / 252 SpA / 180 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Although Vileplume is most commonly seen in a defensive role, it can also turn itself into an offensive threat by setting up Sunny Day. In the sun, Vileplume outspeeds every relevant unboosted Pokemon in the tier and gains access to a much more powerful STAB move in Solar Beam. With Sludge Bomb for coverage on Fire- and Grass-types and Sleep Powder to put a counter out of commission, Vileplume can be very difficult to handle for teams that lack a Choice Scarf user that can OHKO it.

The biggest flaw of this set, and the reason it isn't more commonly seen, is that Victreebel can run the same set but with a higher Speed stat that allows it to outspeed Choice Scarf users and a powerful Weather Ball that allows it to OHKO a few Pokemon that Vileplume misses out on, such as Skuntank, Drifblim, and opposing defensive Vileplume. Sunny Day Vileplume's only tangible advantage over Victreebel is its much greater bulk, which allows it to survive a hit before setting up Sunny Day in situations where Victreebel would be unable to. Vileplume also has some surprise factor going for it, as it usually runs a more defensive set, which means the opponent is more likely to make a passive play such as switching out to bring in sleep fodder, inadvertently giving Vileplume the chance to set up Sunny Day for free. Victreebel, on the other hand, virtually always runs an offensive Sunny Day set, meaning the opponent is more likely to attempt to OHKO it before it gets a chance to set up. Overall, Vileplume can work quite well as a mid- or late-game standalone sweeper, but make sure that Victreebel isn't a better fit for your team.

[ADDITIONAL SET COMMENTS]

The EV spread maximizes Vileplume's power and gives it enough Speed to outspeed every unboosted Pokemon in the tier except Electrode, with the leftover EVs going into HP to reinforce Vileplume's natural bulkiness. Switching to a Timid nature with maximum Speed investment allows it to outspeed Choice Scarf users with base 80 Speed, such as Medicham and Drifblim, but if you want a sun sweeper that can outspeed Choice Scarf users, you're usually better off choosing Victreebel. Hidden Power Fire can replace Sleep Powder in order to OHKO a few of the Pokemon that resist both of Vileplume's STAB moves, such as Magneton and Venomoth, especially if your team has another sleep inducer or is focused on spreading other statuses, but the ability to put a counter to sleep is a big part of what makes Vileplume dangerous. You could also use Hidden Power Fire over Sludge Bomb, but this makes Vileplume completely dependent on Sleep Powder to take on Fire-types and leaves it without a dependable attack to use in cases where it doesn't have a chance to set up Sunny Day, so it's not recommended.

A fast Fire-type such as Choice Scarf Typhlosion is a good partner for this set thanks to its ability to clean up with sun-boosted STAB Fire Blast or Eruption if the opponent manages to force out or KO Vileplume before Sunny Day expires. You should also have a solid counter for the same fast Fire-types in order to prevent them from coming in after a KO and turning the tables on you with a sun-boosted sweep of their own. Regirock handles Fire-types very well and can also set up Stealth Rock to help weaken the opposing team's Fire-, Flying-, and Bug-types that resist Solar Beam, making it easier for Vileplume to sweep. Slowking is even more of a hard stop to Fire-types thanks to its high Special Defense, access to instant recovery, and resistance to most Fire-types' main coverage move in Focus Blast, but keep in mind that Sunny Day halves the power of its Surf.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
============

Vileplume can mimic Venusaur's flagship UU tank set by running Sleep Powder, Moonlight, and two STAB moves with Life Orb and an offensive EV spread, but Vileplume's low Speed and inability to learn Leaf Storm make it a poor imitation. You're usually better off using Sunny Day if you want Vileplume to go on the offensive. Grass Knot can replace Energy Ball on the defensive set for significantly higher power against Regirock, Lapras, and Walrein, but it fails to OHKO Whiscash, Floatzel, and Gorebyss and prevents Vileplume from being able to break Haunter's Substitute, so Energy Ball's consistent power is preferable. Giga Drain is another alternative Grass-type STAB option that offers some additional healing, but its low Base Power makes it an inferior choice in most cases. Hidden Power Ground hits Skuntank and Magneton super effectively, making it Vileplume's best coverage move if you can find a moveslot for it. Like nearly every Grass-type Pokemon, Vileplume has access to Swords Dance, but given its poor Attack and Speed and its extremely shallow physical movepool, you're better off choosing one of the half dozen other Grass-types in the tier that can use it more effectively.

Checks and Counters
============

Sleep Powder makes Vileplume very difficult to truly counter when it first appears on the battlefield. Hypno is the safest switch-in thanks to Insomnia and its excellent Special Defense, but it needs Psychic as its attacking move if it wants to beat Vileplume one-on-one; Vileplume can usually outlast the more common Seismic Toss Hypno by poisoning it with Sludge Bomb. Certain Pokemon with a moveslot to spare, such as Typhlosion and Dodrio, can afford to run Sleep Talk if they want to counter Vileplume as well. If you don't have one of these somewhat niche counters, you're probably going to have to let one of your Pokemon get put to sleep.

Once Sleep Clause is activated, Vileplume becomes much easier to counter. Poison-types such as Skuntank and Venomoth are solid switch-ins that take very little damage from Vileplume's STAB attacks. Gardevoir has excellent Special Defense and can OHKO Vileplume with Psychic. In addition, Trace will copy Vileplume's Chlorophyll, making Gardevoir perhaps the best answer to the Sunny Day set. Against the defensive set, Fire-types, especially Charizard, can switch in on Grass-type moves and force Vileplume out. Other powerful attackers such as Medicham, Jynx, and Dodrio will take a decent amount of damage if they switch in on an attack, but Vileplume can't OHKO any of them, and once they're in, they can easily outspeed and OHKO Vileplume with their super effective STAB moves. Against the Sunny Day set, Choice Scarf users such as Typhlosion, Charizard, Magmortar, and Manectric can always outspeed and OHKO Vileplume in spite of the Chlorophyll boost.
 
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Oglemi

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- Nothing (or at least nothing good) completely counters Vileplume thanks to Sleep Powder
says the hypno user


anyway idk if i would even slash heat rock on the sunny day set because why would you ever forgo life orb; if you're going to be using sunny day vileplume it's probably not going to be on a dedicated sun team because victreebel/shiftry are then 1000000000000x better in that situation. if you're going with sunny day plume it's as a standalone late-game sweeper or surprise mid-game, and plume needs the ability to not have to have sun up to be threatening in that situation. also, if it's holding heat rock it's sludge bomb isn't getting boosted, which iirc charizard/magmortar/typh have a much higher chance of living

other than that i like this
 

Bughouse

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I've always been quite underwhelmed by defensive Vileplume when Roselia exists as an option, although I know Vileplume is obviously bulkier. Just hard to turn down Spikes. And then if you don't need Spikes, you still have to decide against Meganium which is often tough too. You probably don't need a TSpikes absorber for example if you already have Nidoqueen, Skuntank, or Venomoth. At that point, Meganium is probably the better defensive option.

And then I'm always underwhelmed by Sunny Day Vileplume when Shiftry and Victreebel exist too.

It's just not a mon I would almost ever use :/
Most important thing about this analysis would be stressing how many freaking Grasses DPP NU has and that you've got to consider a handful of alternatives that might fit a particular team better.
 

frenzyplant

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1/2 :)

add remove (comments)

[OVERVIEW]

Vileplume is a very solid but unspectacular Pokemon in NU. A Grass / Poison typing isn't ideal for a defensive Pokemon in a metagame where many of the most dangerous attackers are Fire- and Psychic-types, and Vileplume's extremely shallow attacking movepool and low Speed prevent it from being a significant offensive threat. However, while it can't carry a team on its own, Vileplume is still a very effective and common Pokemon thanks to its nice support movepool, balanced combination of bulk and power, and great synergy with other common defensive Pokemon such as Slowking and Regirock. It's not the type of Pokemon that you need to worry about countering when you're building a team, but it will consistently pull its weight when included in a well-built core.

[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Sleep Powder
move 2: Energy Ball
move 3: Sludge Bomb
move 4: Moonlight
item: Leftovers
ability: Chlorophyll
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

Vileplume's nice support movepool and above-average bulk make it a natural fit for a defensive role. It's one of the few viable Pokemon in NU with access to a reliable sleep-inducing move, and it can back that up with reliable recovery and two complementary STAB attacks powered by a solid base 100 Special Attack. Vileplume can't take on NU's top attackers, (comma) such as Charizard, Medicham, or and Jynx, so you shouldn't rely on it to be your primary defensive Pokemon, but it pairs very well with other common defensive Pokemon. In particular, the combination of Slowking, Regirock, and Vileplume is a popular and effective defensive core. Whether it's as part of that core or in some other team composition, Vileplume brings a lot to the table with its ability to counter Grass-types such as Shiftry, check most other physical attackers, put a dangerous Pokemon to sleep, and absorb Toxic Spikes.

It's important to note that defensive Vileplume faces some competition from Meganium, which has better defenses and an arguably better defensive typing for NU, and Roselia, which is one of the few Pokemon in the tier that can set up Spikes. However, Meganium is significantly weaker offensively and lacks a secondary STAB move to discourage Fire- and Grass-types from switching in, and Roselia's much lower HP and Defense stats leave it unable to take on any of the physical attackers that Vileplume beats. Furthermore, neither of them can use a reliable sleep-inducing move (unless Roselia forgoes Spikes, but that would mean giving up its biggest selling point). Vileplume's balanced combination of Sleep Powder, good defense defenses, and just enough offense makes it the best choice for many teams.

[ADDITIONAL SET COMMENTS]

The nature and EV spread focus on Defense because Vileplume's typing is better suited to taking on physical attackers in a tier where Fire, Psychic, and Ice are all common special attacking types. However, you can switch to a more specially defensive spread of 252 HP / 60 Def / 196 SpD with a Calm nature if you want Vileplume to be able to better take on Haunter and Water-type special attackers such as Gorebyss and Golduck. The 60 Defense EVs in that spread allow Vileplume to always survive Choice Band Tauros's Double-Edge after Stealth Rock and respond by putting it to sleep.

Vileplume learns several other useful support moves, most notably Aromatherapy and Stun Spore, but it's difficult to find a place for them on this set. Although Sleep Powder is probably Vileplume's best move, you can drop it for another supporting support move if your team is built around spreading paralysis or poison or if you're using another sleep-inducer sleep inducer, (comma) such as Jynx, (comma) on your team. Dropping Sludge Bomb is also an option, but this makes Vileplume a less effective counter to offensive Grass-types and also makes it easier for opposing Fire- and Flying-types to switch in. Vileplume can also use Leech Seed in place of Moonlight for a more aggressive type of healing at the expense of reliable longevity.

This set needs teammates that can counter the powerful Fire- and Psychic-types that dominate NU, such as Charizard, Medicham, and Jynx, as well as the more powerful physical attackers that it Vileplume can't switch into, on, such as Tauros and Dodrio. As mentioned earlier, Slowking and Regirock are excellent teammates that can counter all of those threats and more, and they also appreciate Vileplume's ability to counter Grass-types and absorb Toxic Spikes. Other good options for defensive teammates include Hypno, Gligar, and Dusclops.

[SET]
name: Sunny Day
move 1: Sunny Day
move 2: Solar Beam
move 3: Sludge Bomb
move 4: Sleep Powder
item: Life Orb
ability: Chlorophyll
nature: Modest
evs: 76 HP / 252 SpA / 180 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Although Vileplume is most commonly seen in a defensive role, it can also turn itself into an offensive threat by setting up Sunny Day. In the sun, Vileplume outspeeds every relevant unboosted Pokemon in the tier and gains access to a much more powerful STAB move in Solar Beam. With Sludge Bomb for coverage on Fire- and Grass-types and Sleep Powder to put a counter out of commission, Vileplume can be very difficult to handle for teams that lack a Choice Scarf user that can OHKO it.

The biggest flaw of this set, and the reason it isn't more commonly seen, is that Victreebel can run the same set but with a higher Speed stat that allows it to outspeed Choice Scarf users and a powerful Weather Ball that allows it to OHKO a few Pokemon that Vileplume misses out on, such as Skuntank, Drifblim, and opposing defensive Vileplume. Sunny Day Vileplume's only tangible advantage over Victreebel is its much greater bulk, which allows it to survive a hit before setting up Sunny Day in situations where Victreebel would be unable to. Vileplume also has some surprise factor going for it, as it usually runs a more defensive set, which means the opponent is more likely to make a passive play such as switching out to bring in sleep fodder, inadvertantly inadvertently giving Vileplume the chance to set up Sunny Day for free. Victreebel, on the other hand, virtually always runs an offensive Sunny Day set, meaning the opponent is more likely to attempt to OHKO it before it gets a chance to set up. Overall, Vileplume can work quite well as a mid- or late-game standalone sweeper, but make sure that Victreebel isn't a better fit for your team.

[ADDITIONAL SET COMMENTS]

The EV spread maximizes Vileplume's power and gives it enough Speed to beat outspeed every unboosted Pokemon in the tier except Electrode, with the leftover EVs going into HP to reinforce Vileplume's natural bulkiness. Switching to a Timid nature and maximizing Vileplume's Speed allows allow it to outspeed Choice Scarf users with base 80 Speed, (comma) such as Medicham and Drifblim, but if you want a sun sweeper that can outspeed Choice Scarf users, you're usually better off choosing Victreebel. Hidden Power Fire can replace Sleep Powder in order to OHKO a few of the Pokemon that resist both of Vileplume's STAB moves, such as Magneton and Venomoth, especially if your team has another sleep inducer or is focused on spreading other statuses, but the ability to put a counter to sleep is a big part of what makes Vileplume dangerous. You could also use Hidden Power Fire over Sludge Bomb, but this makes Vileplume completely dependent on Sleep Powder to take on Fire-types and leaves it without a dependable attack to use in cases where it doesn't have a chance to set up Sunny Day, so it's not recommended.

A fast Fire-type such as Choice Scarf Typhlosion is a good partner for this set thanks to its ability to clean up with sun-boosted STAB Fire Blast or Eruption if the opponent manages to force out or KO Vileplume before Sunny Day expires. You should also have a solid counter for the same fast Fire-types in order to prevent them from coming in after a KO and turning the tables on you with a sun-boosted sweep of their own. Regirock handles Fire-types very well and can also set up Stealth Rock to help weaken the opposing team's Fire-, Flying-, and Bug-types that resist Solar Beam, making it easier for Vileplume to sweep. Slowking is even more of a hard-stop hard stop to Fire-types thanks to its high Special Defense, access to instant recovery, and resistance to most Fire-types' main coverage move in Focus Blast, but keep in mind that Sunny Day halves the power of its Surf.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
============

Vileplume can mimic Venusaur's flagship UU tank set by running Sleep Powder, Moonlight, and two STAB moves with Life Orb and an offensive EV spread, but Vileplume's low Speed and inability to learn Leaf Storm make it a poor imitation. You're usually better off using Sunny Day if you want Vileplume to go on the offensive. Grass Knot can replace Energy Ball on the defensive set for significantly higher power against Regirock, Lapras, and Walrein, but it fails to OHKO Whiscash, Floatzel, and Gorebyss, (remove comma) and prevents Vileplume from being able to break Haunter's Substitute, so Energy Ball's consistent power is preferable. Giga Drain is another alternative Grass-type STAB option that offers some additional healing, but its low Base Power makes it an inferior choice in most cases. Hidden Power Ground hits Skuntank and Magneton super effectively, making it Vileplume's best coverage move if you can find a moveslot for it. Like nearly every Grass-type Pokemon, Vileplume has access to Swords Dance, but given its poor Attack and Speed and its extremely shallow physical movepool, you're better off choosing one of the half dozen other Grass-types in the tier that can use it more effectively.

Checks and Counters
============

Sleep Powder makes Vileplume very difficult to truly counter when it first appears on the battlefield. Hypno is the safest switch-in thanks to Insomnia and its excellent Special Defense, but it needs Psychic as its attacking move if it wants to beat Vileplume one-on-one; Vileplume can usually outlast the more common Seismic Toss Hypno by poisoning it with Sludge Bomb. Certain Pokemon with a moveslot to spare, such as Typhlosion and Dodrio, can afford to run Sleep Talk if they want to counter Vileplume as well. If you don't have one of these somewhat niche counters, you're probably going to have to let one of your Pokemon get put to sleep.

Once Sleep Clause is activated, Vileplume becomes much easier to counter. Poison-types such as Skuntank and Venomoth are solid switch-ins that take very little damage from Vileplume's STAB attacks. Gardevoir has excellent Special Defense and can OHKO Vileplume with Psychic. In addition, Trace will copy Vileplume's Chlorophyll, making Gardevoir perhaps the best answer to the Sunny Day set. Against the defensive set, Fire-types, especially Charizard, can switch in on Grass-type moves and force Vileplume out. Other powerful attackers such as Medicham, Jynx, and Dodrio will take a decent amount of damage if they switch in on an attack, but Vileplume can't OHKO any of them, and once they're in they can easily outspeed and OHKO Vileplume with their super effective STAB moves. Against the Sunny Day set, Choice Scarf users such as Typhlosion, Charizard, Magmortar, and Manectric can always outspeed and OHKO Vileplume in spite of the Chlorophyll boost. (nicely written :) )
 

Lumari

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additional set comments set 1 said:
This set needs teammates that can counter the powerful Fire- and Psychic-types that dominate NU, such as Charizard, Medicham, and Jynx, as well as the more powerful physical attackers that Vileplume can't switch into, such as Tauros and Dodrio. As mentioned earlier, Slowking and Regirock are excellent teammates that can counter all of those threats and more, and they also appreciate Vileplume's ability to counter Grass-types and absorb Toxic Spikes. Other good options for defensive teammates include Hypno, Gligar, and Dusclops.
checks and counters said:
Once Sleep Clause is activated, Vileplume becomes much easier to counter. Poison-types such as Skuntank and Venomoth are solid switch-ins that take very little damage from Vileplume's STAB attacks. Gardevoir has excellent Special Defense and can OHKO Vileplume with Psychic. In addition, Trace will copy Vileplume's Chlorophyll, making Gardevoir perhaps the best answer to the Sunny Day set. Against the defensive set, Fire-types, especially Charizard, can switch in on Grass-type moves and force Vileplume out. Other powerful attackers such as Medicham, Jynx, and Dodrio will take a decent amount of damage if they switch in on an attack, but Vileplume can't OHKO any of them, and once they're in, (AC) they can easily outspeed and OHKO Vileplume with their super effective STAB moves. Against the Sunny Day set, Choice Scarf users such as Typhlosion, Charizard, Magmortar, and Manectric can always outspeed and OHKO Vileplume in spite of the Chlorophyll boost.
 
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