Vileplume (Update)

breh

強いだね

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/vileplume

Vileplume is truly in need of an update (seriously, its Swords Dance set mentions Razor Leaf as the only physical STAB option)... Anyway, while this looks quite similar to the "Status Platform" set on the site, it is more specially defensive, uses Sludge Bomb, and has more than two sentences of description.

Status: Eo, DZ, and Snorlaxe have proofread the analysis (3 of 2 GP checks and 2 of 2 stamps). Ready for upload I guess

[Overview]

<p>At first glance, Vileplume seems to be absolutely inferior to Venusaur. She shares the same great typing yet loses out on a multitude of movepool options (namely, Power Whip, Leaf Storm, Earthquake, and Roar) and possesses poorer base stats (barring Defense, every base stat is less than or equal to Venusaur's). However, the little rafflesia still has a few advantages over Venusaur - most notably, Aromatherapy. Aromatherapy differentiates Vileplume from Venusaur and gives her the ability to function as a sturdy cleric with some special bulk. Like Venusaur, Vileplume also gets the valuable Sleep Powder and somewhat reliable recovery in Moonlight.</p>

<p>Vileplume's main problem is that she is easily walled by Pokemon with a decent amount of special bulk. While such Pokemon do not stop Vileplume from accomplishing her main job as a cleric, they can simply set up against her while she struggles to damage them. In addition, Vileplume has an extremely shallow offensive movepool, as the only special moves she has are Grass- and Poison-type moves.</p>

[SET]
name: Cleric
move 1: Aromatherapy
move 2: Energy Ball
move 3: Sludge Bomb
move 4: Moonlight / Leech Seed / Sleep Powder
item: Leftovers
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

[Set Comments]

<p>Vileplume's main purpose is to heal her teammates of status by using Aromatherapy. While it first appears that Meganium would be a better candidate for the job due to her superior defenses and access to Reflect and Light Screen, Vileplume avoids being outclassed due to her secondary Poison-typing and access to Sleep Powder. Energy Ball allows Vileplume to take a chunk of health from bulky Water- and Ground-types, while Sludge Bomb aids Vileplume in defeating Sceptile (who could otherwise set up Swords Dance or Substitute) and Venusaur (who takes pitiful damage from Energy Ball). The last moveslot is up to personal choice. Moonlight is Vileplume's only instant-recovery move, but it is troubled by poor PP in comparison to other instant-recovery moves. In addition, its recovery has the unfortunate side effect of being halved under rain, hail, or sandstorm. Leech Seed is an alternate form of recovery that enables Vileplume to serve as an acceptable annoyer. Sleep Powder allows Vileplume to essentially remove one of the opponent's Pokemon from play if it does not have Sleep Talk, Natural Cure, or the rare Insomnia.</p>

[Additional Comments]

<p>The given EVs are used to ensure that Vileplume has as much special bulk as possible. Alternatively, a spread of 252 HP / 184 SpD / 72 Spe can be used in order to outspeed Life Orb Moltres in the sun and put it to sleep if Sunny Day teams are a major problem for your team. In addition, such a spread allows Vileplume to outspeed base 55s and 50s who do not invest EVs in Speed, like Donphan, Registeel, and Omastar.</p>

<p>While many of Vileplume's counters do not stop her from healing her teammates, their super effective STAB moves usually pose a threat to her. Fire-types like Moltres, Arcanine, and Blaziken all have little trouble defeating Vileplume. In the same vein as Arcanine, Swellow also has little trouble KOing the little rafflesia, even boasting immunity to status after his Toxic or Burn Orb comes into effect. Arcanine herself is a great check to all of these Pokemon, as she possesses Flash Fire to absorb Fire-type attacks aimed at Vileplume and can threaten Swellow with ExtremeSpeed, forcing him to either switch (and endure Stealth Rock damage) or take a hefty chunk of damage from ExtremeSpeed. Bulky Water-types like Slowbro and Milotic also take little damage from Fire-type moves and can hit back hard with STAB Water-type moves.</p>

<p>Calm Mind Mismagius, Calm Mind Spiritomb, and Curse Registeel are also solid counters to Vileplume, mostly due to the fact that they do not fear either of Vileplume's STAB moves and can set up with impunity. Again, Arcanine proves to be a good teammate due to her ability to defeat Registeel, Mismagius, and Spiritomb by hitting them with Flare Blitz. Dugtrio is also very good at removing Registeel, as he traps and 2HKOes it with his STAB Earthquake.</p>

[Team Options]

<p>The most optimal Pokemon to pair with Vileplume are those who can take care of her weaknesses to Fire- and Flying-type moves and her problems with Pokemon who can set up on her. Thus, Arcanine works well with Vileplume, as she is able use Fire-type attacks aimed at Vileplume to her advantage and can take care of Swellow with ExtremeSpeed. In addition, Arcanine is also able to defeat Registeel, Mismagius, and Spiritomb. Bulky Water-types like Milotic and Slowbro also pair well with Vileplume, taking Fire-type attacks for her. These same Pokemon also appreciate being cleansed of status, as Milotic and Slowbro are prime targets for Toxic. Finally, Vileplume, Arcanine, and a bulky Water-type form a sturdy Fire + Water + Grass core when used together.</p>

<p>As with virtually every single Pokemon, Vileplume appreciates entry hazard support. Entry Hazards are incredibly useful due to the amount of switches Leech Seed and Sleep Powder will cause. Stealth Rock also has the added benefit of deterring Fire- and Flying-types from switching in due to the toll on their health.</p>

[Optional Changes]

<p>Vileplume has a few interesting moves in her very limited arsenal. Stun Spore and Teeter Dance could be used to run a parafusion set that hinders the opponent's ability to fight back. However, such a set is better in the hands of Lanturn, who can do the same but with Thunder Wave, which is 100% accurate. Toxic aids Vileplume in combating Milotic, although Energy Ball already does sufficient damage to her. Charm can be used to lower the Attack of physical sweepers, but has limited usefulness due to Vileplume's low Speed.</p>

<p>Vileplume's offensive options are extremely few in number. Grass Knot is an interesting option, doing more damage to Rhyperior, Milotic, Donphan, and Regirock than Energy Ball. However, it loses much of its power against lighter threats like Omastar and Azumarill. Vileplume can choose to run a physical set (with Body Slam and Seed Bomb as her attacking options), but it lacks much power and has poor coverage.</p>

[Counters]

<p>Most of Vileplume's counters do not take away her ability to heal her teammates, but instead force her out with their STAB moves. Fire- and Flying-types such as Arcanine and Swellow fall under this category; however, these Pokemon must all watch out and be careful not to switch into Leech Seed or Sleep Powder. Vileplume also has problems with Pokemon who enjoy setting up on weak attackers. Calm Mind Mismagius and mono-attacking Registeel and Spiritomb take little damage from Vileplume's attacks and can bypass Sleep Powder by using Substitute and Sleep Talk, respectively. However, these Pokemon also do not enjoy being struck by Leech Seed.</p>
 
i think synthesis (moonlight) should be put into the set, most likely over sleep powder. it helps vileplume perform its main job (stay alive and aroma) more effectively since sleep powder is kind of a "random flip a coin and take out a pokemon" move.

leech seed is also good on this; it should be aimed primarily at shoddy battling so the rarity of oddish is not a very big deal.

aromatherapy / sludge bomb / synthesis or sleep powder or leech seed / energy ball or leech seed is what i think is best.

btw lol this thing doesn't get leaf storm -.-
 

breh

強いだね
Ok, I'll slash Moonlight and Leech Seed with sleep powder.

And yes it sucks that it doesn't get leaf storm... makes sense though due to the fact that it doesn't have leaves... just huge petals

Petal dance in OO? xD
 
Nah, stick with Energy Ball. Getting "trapped" here isn't the best idea.
Never use Petal Dance.

It seems pretty solid.
 
In Teammates/Counters, you need an obligatory paragraph on pokemon that do not appreciate being status-ed.

Also, is Energy Ball really an essential?
 

breh

強いだね
Edited in an overview and changed the set's format, will do the rest later when this is looking to be done

@Darkamber8828: What do you mean about pokemon that do not enjoy status? Nothing really enjoys sleep, other pokemon are better at spreading around paralysis (in 100% accurate form), and toxic is learned by every pokemon that can learn TMs.

Yes, Energy ball is an essential... Imagine having a poison type move as your only stab Dx

Lastly... are Charm or Teeter Dance worthy for OO?
 
Charm should be OO... But not really, as Vileplume has a respectable Defense stat anyways (If you're desperate Charm an Aggron or something). Teeter Dance is way too unreliable, and I'd only run it if you run Stun Spore for the sake of Parafusion.
 

breh

強いだね
Edited... could somebody please help out with what exactly AC should look like? I feel that I put too much about teammates/counters
 

FlareBlitz

Relaxed nature. Loves to eat.
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
Possibly mention Grass Knot somewhere? And are you sure the EVs are optimal? Might be worth it to invest enough to outrun 4 SPE Omastar so you can Grass it before it can IB you. Granted IB won't be doing very much, but in case it predicts your switch or if you're weakened already it could be useful. This also guarantees that you outrun most registeel and donphan and things.
 

breh

強いだね
Grass knot seems like a mixed option... I like being able to hit Milo for 100 base and and Rhyperior for 120, but otherwise it pretty much hits for less or equal to energy ball. Ironically, you mention Omastar (which is hit for 60).

Based on usage stats, most run bold/modest... in this case 48 speed is needed to outspeed. I feel that this is similar enough that I can include it with the spread of 76 speed to outspeed moltres in the sun and mention the merits of outspeeding no speed base 50s and 55s. However, the one problem I see is that this could be classed as speed creep... eh well
 

shrang

General Kenobi
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Just interested, what does Vileplume have over Meganium?? I know the Poison typing and Sleep Powder is great, but Meganium better better bulk, speed and Dual Screens. I reckon you should mention this somewhere.
 

breh

強いだね
Do you have any suggestions as to where I would mention it?

Though yeah; poison typing (and thus Stab Sludge Bomb... not Venu setup fodder :D) and Sleep Powder are the main things that it has.

Also could somebody please change the title? I unintentionally turned this into an update more than a single set
 

shrang

General Kenobi
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Just after the first sentence in Set Comments, I think would be best. Something simple like "While it first appears Meganium would be a better candidate for the job due to its superior defenses and Dual Screens, Vileplume avoids being outclassed due to its Poison typing and access to Sleep Powder" should suffice, I think.
 

breh

強いだね
bump; can somebody please approve or reject this?

Oh and can somebody change the title to "update" as opposed to "cleric"
 

Eo Ut Mortus

Elodin Smells
is a Programmeris a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past SCL Championis a Past WCoP Champion
I think Moonlight should be the primary option in the fourth slot, before Sleep Powder. Helps in taking hits, notably from SubSeed Sceptile and Milotic. Otherwise, I approve.

QC Approved 1/2
 
This set is so annoying to take down. Moonlight should be slashed first as well IMO, but Leech Seed should be the second option because of the recovery aspect as well.

Approved from me.
 

breh

強いだね
bump...

Did ToF approve it (and thus should it be moved) or does somebody else need to approve it?
 

FlareBlitz

Relaxed nature. Loves to eat.
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
This should have been moved. Please PM Whoostle, ToF, or Eo and they will move it for you.
 
Grammar-Prose Check 1/2:
additions in bold
removals in red
comments in green
[Overview]

<p>At first glance look, Vileplume seems to be absolutely inferior to Venusaur. She shares the same great typing, yet loses out on a multitude plethora of movepool options (Power Whip, Leaf Storm, Earthquake, and Roar) and posesses poorer base stats (barring Defense, every base stat is less than or equal to Venusaur's). However, the little rafflesia still has a few things over Venusaur – most notably, Aromatherapy of which Aromatherapy is the most important. Aromatherapy differentiates Vileplume from Venusaur and gives her the ability to function as a sturdy cleric with some special bulk. Like Venusaur, Vileplume also gets the valuable Sleep Powder and somewhat reliable recovery in Moonlight.</p>

<p>Vileplume's main problem is that she is easily walled by Pokemon with a decent amount of special bulk. While such Pokemon do not stop Vileplume from accomplishing her main job as a cleric, they can simply set up against her while she struggles to do damage to them. In addition, Vileplume has an extremely shallow offensive movepool, as the only special moves she has that run off of her higher Special Attack are Grass- and Poison-type moves.</p>

[SET]
name: Cleric
move 1: Aromatherapy
move 2: Energy Ball
move 3: Sludge Bomb
move 4: Moonlight / Leech Seed / Sleep Powder
item: Leftovers
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

[Set Comments]

<p>Vileplume's main goal aim is to heal her teammates of status by using Aromatherapy and promptly switching out. While it first appears Meganium would be a better candidate for the job due to her superior defenses and access to Reflect and Light Screen Dual Screens, Vileplume avoids being outclassed due to her secondary Poison-typing and access to Sleep Powder. Anyway, Energy Ball allows Vileplume to take a chunk of health from bulky Water- and Ground-types, while Sludge Bomb aids Vileplume in defeating Sceptile (who could otherwise set up Swords Dances or Substitutes) and Venusaur (who takes pitiful damage from Energy Ball). The last moveslot is up to personal choice. Sleep Powder allows Vileplume to essentially remove one of the opponent's Pokemon from play if they do not have Sleep Talk, Natural Cure, or the rare Insomnia. Moonlight is Vileplume's only instant recovery move, but is troubled by poor PP in comparison to moves like Recover and Roost. In addition, its recovery is halved in the rain, hail, or sandstorm, which is an unfortunate side effect side-effect. Leech Seed rounds out Vileplume's options, allowing her to serve as an acceptable annoyer. Rounding out its options, Leech Seed is a rare event move from the Advance generation. While it is difficult to obtain for cartridge play, it is a solid option when playing on a Pokemon battle simulator.</p>

[note: for future reference, sentences like the above should always be omitted. smogon analyses deal with the competitive aspect of pokemon, and unless you are specifically writing about in-game material, never add sentences like that.]

[Additional Comments]
<p>The given EVs effort values given are used to ensure that Vileplume has as much special Specially Defensive bulk as possible she can get, with the remaining effort value being dumped in Defense. Alternatively, a spread of 252 HP / 184 SpD / 72 Speed can be used in order to outspeed LO Moltres in the sun and put it to sleep if Sunny Day teams are a major problem for a team. In addition, such a spread allows Vileplume to outspeed base 55s and 50s like Donphan, Registeel, and Omastar that do not invest EVs in Speed run no speed.</p>

<p>While many of Vileplume's counters do not stop her from healing her teammates, they usually pose a threat to her by using super effective STAB moves. Fire-types like Moltres, Arcanine, and Blaziken all have little trouble defeating Vileplume. In much the same vein way as Arcanine, Swellow also has little trouble in KOing the little rafflesia and also boasts immunity to status after his Toxic or Burn Orb comes into effect. Arcanine herself is a great check to all of these Pokemon, as she posesses Flash Fire to absorb Fire-type attacks aimed at Vileplume and can also defeat Swellow with Extremespeed, forcing him to either switch (and endure Stealth Rock damage) or take a hefty chunk of damage from Extremespeed. Bulky Water types like Slowbro and Milotic also take very little from Fire-type moves and can hit back hard with STAB Water-type moves Surfs.</p>

<p>Calm Mind Mismagius, Calm Mind Spiritomb, and Curse Registeel are also solid counters to Vileplume, mostly due to the fact that they do not fear either of Vileplume's STAB moves and can set up with impunity impudence. Again, Arcanine proves to be a good teammate due to her ability to defeat Registeel, Mismagius, and Spiritomb by hitting them on their weaker defenses with Overheat and Flare Blitz. Dugtrio is also very good at removing Registeel, as he traps it and hits hard with STAB Earthquakes.</p>

[important: team options comes before optional changes]

[Team Options]
<p>The most optimal Pokemon to pair with Vileplume are those that can take care of her weaknesses to Fire- and Flying-type moves and her problems with Pokemon that can set up on her. Thus, Arcanine works well with Vileplume, as she is able use Fire-type attacks aimed at Vileplume to her advantage and can take care of Swellow with ExtremeSpeed. In addition, Arcanine is also able to defeat Registeel, Mimagius, and Spiritomb who try to set up on it. If Arcanine is used, bulky Water-types like Milotic and Slowbro pair well with it, taking the Fire-type attacks for it while also forming a sturdy Fire + Water + Grass core. These same Pokemon also appreciate being cleansed of status, as Milotic and Slowbro are prime targets for Toxic.</p>

<p>As with virtually every single Pokemon, Vileplume appreciates entry hazard support. Spikes or Stealth Rock are incredibly useful due to the amount of switches Leech Seed and Sleep Powder will cause; Stealth Rock also has the added benefit of deterring Fire- and Flying- types from switching in due to the huge toll on their health.</p>

[Optional Changes]

<p>Vileplume has a few interesting moves in her very limited arsenal. Stun Spore and Teeter Dance could be used to run a Parafusion Paralysis/Confusion set that hinders the opponent's ability to retribute ["retribute" isn't a word. i'm not sure what you mean here]. However, such a set is better in the hands of Lanturn, who can do the same but with Thunder Wave, which is 100% accurate. Toxic aids Vileplume in combatting Milotic, although Energy Ball already does sufficient damage to her. Charm can be used to lower the Attack of physical sweepers, but has limited usefulness due to Vileplume's low Speed.</p>

<p>Vileplume's offensive options are very lacking extremely few in number. Grass Knot is an interesting option, doing more great damage to Rhyperior, Milotic, Donphan, and Regirock. However, it loses much of its power against lighter threats like Omastar and Azumarill. Vileplume can choose to run a physical set (with Body Slam and Seed Bomb as her its attacking options), but it lacks much power and has poor coverage.</p>

[Counters]
<p>Most of Vileplume's counters do not take away her ability to heal her teammates, but instead force her out with their STAB moves Fire Blasts, Overheats, Brave Birds, and the like. However, these Pokemon must all watch out and be careful not to switch into Leech Seed or Sleep Powder. Vileplume also has problems with Pokemon that enjoy setting up on weak attackers. Calm Mind Mismagius and Mono-Attacking Registeel and Spiritomb take little damage from Vileplume's attacks and can bypass ward against Sleep Powder by using Substitute and Sleep Talk, respectively. However, these Pokemon also do not enjoy being struck by Leech Seed Leech Seeded.</p>
Grammatically, this analysis was quite good, but there were several issues concerning prose and capitalization. It's rather obvious that a word like "Pokemon" needs to be capitalized, and you didn't capitalize a single instance of it. Try to make your sentences more concise, especially when writing about a fairly unimportant Pokemon like Vileplume. Avoid using moves as verbs (enjoy being Leech Seeded < enjoy being struck by Leech Seed). Don't mention in-game material unless you're specifically dealing with an in-game subject. When writing a competitive analysis, sentences like these are unacceptable:
Rounding out its options, Leech Seed is a rare event move from the Advance generation. While it is difficult to obtain for cartridge play, it is a solid option when playing on a Pokemon battle simulator.
Lastly, Team Options always goes before Optional Changes.

Withholding stamp until my changes are implemented. Nice analysis, good work.

EDIT: Changes made, so

 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top