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Virizion (Work Up)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by New World Order, Nov 6, 2011.

  1. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
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    [​IMG]

    [SET]
    name: Work Up
    move 1: Work Up
    move 2: Close Combat
    move 3: Giga Drain
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Stone Edge
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    ability: Justified
    nature: Hasty / Naive
    evs: 104 Atk / 152 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Unlike Salamence and Infernape, Virizion is no offensive juggernaut, but its astonishing special bulk allows it to grab multiple boosts, and while it often fails to OHKO or 2HKO the opponent, the opponent will be hard pressed to 2HKO or 3HKO Virizion in return. This, coupled with Virizion's excellent coverage and a blistering base 108 Speed, makes it a potent user of Work Up. Its typing makes it a valuable asset to many teams, especially those that employ sand, as Virizion dominates many common rain abusers, such as Ferrothorn, Rotom-W, and Gastrodon. What differentiates this set from the Calm Mind and Swords Dance sets is its reliability. With Close Combat, Virizion isn't forced to fire off the most unreliable move in the game, Focus Blast. With Giga Drain, Virizion gains access to a valuable method of recovery. Hidden Power Ice is the preferred coverage move, as it shoots down numerous Dragons, such as Dragonite and Salamence, that would otherwise wall Virizion. However, Stone Edge can be used to take out Volcarona, while still retaining coverage against some Dragons.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Virizion is offensively lacking, even after a boost, which makes Life Orb the preferred item. Leftovers can be useful to restore Virizion's health at times, but is largely outclassed by Life Orb — the extra damage dealt by Life Orb-boosted Giga Drain can often make up for the Leftovers recovery. A Hasty nature is recommended, as it maximizes Speed without jeopardizing Virizion's pitiful offenses or its outstanding special bulk. However, one could run a Naive nature instead to reduce damage taken from priority moves, such as Scizor's Bullet Punch. Maximum Speed investment allows the green musketeer to Speed tie fellow Fighting-types Terrakion and Infernape. 104 Attack EVs allow a +1 Virizion to OHKO standard Choice Band Scizor after 2 Stealth Rock switch-ins, while the remaining EVs are dumped into Special Attack to maximize Giga Drain's damage output. Additionally, a more physically oriented spread of 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe can be used, especially if Stone Edge is used in the last slot, as it juices up the power of Close Combat. Other options include dropping to 200 Speed EVs to outpace Landorus, or going with 160 SpA EVs for an unconditional OHKO against 4 HP / 0 Def Starmie.</p>

    <p>Although Virizion can trample over slow, defensively oriented Pokemon, it does not appreciate status one bit. Users of Aromatherapy, such as Blissey, or Pokemon that can absorb status moves, such as Celebi or Gliscor, therefore make excellent teammates. Although Virizion can impose its will on most Pokemon slower than it, faster Pokemon, such as Latias, Latios, and Gengar, are a pain to take down. Scizor, Tyranitar, and Jirachi can easily defeat these aforementioned threats, and can also bring down the likes of Reuniclus and Celebi, who can take hits from Virizion with ease and retaliate with a STAB Psychic. Volcarona is also incredibly threatening, as it can set up on non-Stone Edge variants and proceed to incinerate Virizion with a Fire STAB, but the most threatening Pokemon of them all is Skarmory, who completely walls Virizion and banishes it to the afterlife with a 4x super effective Brave Bird. Heatran, therefore, makes a great teammate. It not only checks the likes of Volcarona and Skarmory, but also absorbs Fire-type moves aimed at Virizion. Finally, Virizion could be paired with another Fighting-type, such as Scrafty or Terrakion, so one can weaken opposing walls and open up a sweep for the other.</p>
  2. Pocket

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    Good start, New World Order. You should most definitely add Skarmory under Counters section, since no investment LO Close Combat wont be hurting Skarmory at all.
  3. Lady Salamence

    Lady Salamence
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  4. Iceydude168

    Iceydude168

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    With OU being a priority-fest, I usually hate using -Def natures. Since Virizion outpaces a large portion of the metagame as it is (and Vacuum wave is only ever seen on Lucario), it won't be taking much Special hits to begin with. That's why I would use Naive nature over Hasty.

    EDIT: Also, Virizion will still have great Special Defense after a -SpDef nature, although I already stated that you shouldn't be taking much Special hits anyways.

    Also, Physically Defensive Metagross can usually beat it by spamming Meteor mash until the thing crumples from the sheer damage output.
  5. GtM

    GtM

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    To be honest, I don't think having a -Def nature matters much in terms of dealing with priority unless specific 2HKOs or OHKOs can occur that could not previously. It doesn't make a difference against CB Dragonite (66% - 77.8%) or CB Scizor (72.5% - 85.5%) unless you come into hazards multiple times, and bearing in mind that Virizion resists Stealth Rock, the opponent pretty much has to have Spikes for it to threaten a OHKO. Since Virizion loves coming in on stuff like Rotom-W's Volt Switch, I think it's the lesser of two evils.
  6. muramusaw8

    muramusaw8

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    I say keep the Hasty nature; Scizor and friends will finish Virizion off when you're weakened even if it has a neutral-defensive nature.

    The underused Chandelure can revenge this set. Toxicroak can beat Virizion unless the musketeer is running Hidden Power Flying, allowing Virizion to hit Volcarona hard(er) while also maintaining a super-effective attack on the intended grass types targets like Celebi and Venusaur. Admittedly, Zapdos and Dragons (most Lati@s will beat Virizion, anyways) will become problematic and Gliscor is no longer OHKO'd.
  7. Fishkiller nomore

    Fishkiller nomore

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    I have been testing this set out it pretty good but you may reconsider the -Def nature
  8. zdrup15

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    After reading this, I have the idea that you think this set's biggest assets are breaking walls that the other two sets can't and being a great weapon against rain stall.

    However, the only walls the CM set can't break are Jirachi (this set can't beat it either) and the pink blobs most of the time thanks to Focus Miss's low accuracy. And SD can break the most common walls including Skarmory and Jirachi (and Scizor which is one of the most common switch-ins) that can take on the set you're suggesting.

    Also, SD Virizion is already one of the biggest threats to rain stall (M Dragon told me it was actually THE biggest threat to his famous team) so that is something not exclusive to this set.

    Having said all this, I do agree that in some battles I'd kill to have Giga Drain but it's not good enough imo and should remain in Other Options.
  9. Blue_Star

    Blue_Star
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    Not sure if this is effective. The most popular CM Virizion counters are Scizor, Spdef Jirachi, Latias, Reuniclus and Blissey. Work Up Virizion still loses to the former 2, loses even harder to Latias / Reuniclus and only beats Blissey. However, it can't get past Skarmory and will also lose to Gengar and Celebi.
  10. RaikouLover

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    This is a good set and Virizion is the right mon to do it. However, I dont see many people using this over Calm Mind so keep that in mind when drafting it. Close Combat lowering defenses makes you weaker against priority; now things like unboosted Extremespeed from Drag and Lucario look ALOT more frightening. Calm Mind raises SpDef too remember, which means Latios cant come in Draco Meteoring as easily hoping to revenge you. You also become more afraid of Life Orb Starmie revenges as well (where before you shrugged em off and gained ALL your health back). Focus Blast on the CM Set isn't nearly as bad as people think - it OHKOs Skarmory and misses aren't as always as drastic as they seem when you think of what else you use it on (Ferrothorn, Forretress).
  11. religiousjedi

    religiousjedi Destiny likes to use #The in everything.
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    I've been using Work Up Virizion on my latest team, and I must say, it works great. I would recommend testing out an alternate spread of 240 Atk / 16 SpA / 252 Spe. ChopleTar has a chance to be OHKOed before the boost and is guaranteed to fall after the Work Up boost.

    Seriously, this thing is an underrated sweeper.
  12. RaikouLover

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    You make a very good point. Extra attack to power up Close Combat actually looks very very good, especially since the things you will use Giga / HP Ice on are hit hard enough as it is. Hippo? lmao.
  13. AnyaAlstreim

    AnyaAlstreim

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    I don't particularly think it is necessary, the current spread is capable to KO standard Ferrothorn after a +1 and people barely carry ChopleTar anyway (Babiri is more common), and even so you probably can get a +1 by the time it comes in.
  14. alexwolf

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    Good job posting this set NWO.
    Before using this set i was feeling just like you...The CM set was overall amazing but had the amazingly sucky FB and the SD set didn't have good longevity,which useful defensive pivots like Virizion should have,and finally it got fucked up by the very poke it was supposed to utterly counter(Rotom-W).
    This set is a very nice alterantive to those who like the CM sets but want reliability!

    To the one who proposed a Naive nature,it is not a good idea at all 'cause Virizion will be taking many special Water and Electric attacks for your team.

    Finally i am not sure but you may want to consider putting Stone Edge instead of HP Ice,so that you can actually pose a threat to oppsoing Volcaronas,instead of screaming SETUP ON ME.
    Also if someone choses to run SE the set should be more focused on Attack as the following calcs show(252 EVs used in Attack with a Hasty nature):

    +1 CC vs 252HP Scizor : 418 Atk vs 236 Def & 344 HP (100 Base Power): 247 - 292 (71.80% - 84.88%)
    ...very possible 1hko after 2 switch ins with SR in play

    +0 SE vs 0/0 Gyarados : 279 Atk vs 194 Def & 331 HP (100 Base Power): 268 - 316 (80.97% - 95.47%)
    ...100% ohko after SR and Intimidate

    +1 SE vs 4/0 Latios : 418 Atk vs 196 Def & 302 HP (100 Base Power): 199 - 235 (65.89% - 77.81%)
    ...only a small chance for a ohko after 2 switch ins with SR in play but still a good amount of damage

    +1 SE vs 4/0 Gengar : 418 Atk vs 156 Def & 262 HP (100 Base Power): 250 - 295 (95.42% - 112.60%)
    ...100% ohko after SR.

    +0 CC vs 252/0 Heatran : 279 Atk vs 248 Def & 386 HP (120 Base Power): 378 - 446 (97.93% - 115.54%)
    ...100% ohko after SR(and a very good chance for ohko even without) while the 4 Atk Virizion set does 75.13% - 89.12% to the same Heatran which has only a tiny chance of ohkoing after SR and 0% chance to ohko after SR and lefites.

    +0 SE vs 224/252 Volcarona(the bulky Quiver Dance set) : 279 Atk vs 251 Def & 367 HP (70 Base Power): 292 - 348 (79.56% - 94.82%)
    ...I did the calc without a boost against the most defensive Volcarona you will ever face.So you get the point.

    As you can see by using SE and a physical attacking spread you manage to ohko or certainly damage some threats that you couldn't before like Gengar,Scizor,Gyarados,Volcarona and even bulky Heatran(the latter without any boost).
  15. Delta 2777

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    I approve (1/3)
    Mention cutting down speed EVs to outrun just Landorus in the AC since the extra EVs in Attack can be useful. Also mention a Naive nature as well in the AC, it's more than viable for taking less damage from Scizor's BP, Conk's Mach Punch, Ferrothorn's Gyro Ball, etc.

    Actually I'm thinking naive may be the better choice I'll wait for more input
  16. Tomahawk

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    How is this any better than Swords Dance? Hidden Power Ice is imo not really good on Virizion, seeing as Gliscor's Ice Fang does something like 25% max, so it's setup fodder, and you can just SD / CC / LB / SE which is much better at sweeping than this set.
  17. PK Gaming

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    I'd probably use naive (slash it with hasty) as well considering priority is pretty prevalent (and is one of the better ways of dealing with Virizion imo) and Virizion already has stellar SpD.

    QC APPROVED (2/3)

  18. Braseg257

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    Why not Hp fire instead of Hp ice for Scizor, Skarmory, Ferrothorn and co.?
  19. SJCrew

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    Virizion is a Fighting-type Pokemon, you know. He can hit all three of those with STAB Focus Blast for neutral or super effective damage and it does more damage than HP Fire in all cases. HP Ice hits Dragons, which are just about every team and will wall him otherwise.
  20. Braseg257

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  21. Pocket

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    Dragonite is the #1 mon, so HP Ice is preferable. HP Fire would certainly be useful for Scizor & Skarmory (not Ferrothorn), so it is probably worth a mention for those who needs an answer to Volt-Turn combination and to minimize Spikes set-up.

    252 SAtk HP Fire to 252 HP / 0 SDef Skarmory: 61-73%
    At +1, HP Fire does 92-109%, a definite OHKO after Rocks.

    You cannot attain HP Fire without lowering its Speed IVs to 30, unfortunately. Delta's suggestion to cut down on Speed EVs would be beneficial for Virizion in this case (although, I'd probably aim Virizion to be faster than LO Mienshao).

    EDIT: ninja'd by SJCrew :x
  22. SJCrew

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    Lesson here: Don't even think about using HP Fire. Your STAB hits the same thing + more, and HP Ice rounds off its coverage perfectly. Watch out for Chandelure.

    EDIT: Focus Blast is not listed on this set, as it would essentially be a replica of CM without the Special Attack boost. Pretty big slip, actually.

    In this case, I agree with Raikou about Attack EVs being more important. +1 CC OHKOs Scizor and Ferrothorn after rocks with full investment, while you really don't need any Sp. Att investment at all to beat Gliscor, especially since you'll more than likely be at +1 when he gets in (nuked). The same goes for Dragonite.
  23. RaikouLover

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    I think for this set the Max Attack looks a lot better than the Max SpA unless proven otherwise. Close Combat is the highest base power move, much powerful than Giga Drain so you will increase your damage output significantly, especially against offensive mons and tanks. I would really consider discussing the EV spread. How much needed to kill things, etc.
  24. Lee

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    sorta agreeing with RL...i touched upon this set a while back and the only reason i didn't propose the full set is that i couldn't decide on the EVs...i wanted to invest enough Atk to make sure that Close Combat KO'd neutral targets such as Scizor and Jirachi after a bit of residual damage without eating into Giga Drain's power output too much (which, lets face it, is the main draw of this set over the SD set) but i couldn't come up with anything. 90/90 offensive stats suck. would like to see some alternate EV spreads if somebody fancies it.
  25. EonADS

    EonADS

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    Tbh, there isn't much. The only thing I could see taking out of Attack would be 64 EVs, and that doesn't do much against the Bulky Waters of the teir, the only thing is really the OHKO on Scarf/Specs Politoed after SR with +1 Giga Drain. You loose the near-certain OHKO on Scizor with +1 Close Combat after SR, and probably some other stuff (too lazy to manually fix up everything on the Damage Calculator).

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