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UU Vivillon

Discussion in 'Preliminary Pokedex' started by horyzhnz, May 10, 2014.

  1. horyzhnz

    horyzhnz faith is my pillar
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    [​IMG]
    brb sweepin ur team

    QC: [ Limitless / Calloflochie / Kushalos ]
    GP: [ Magcargo 2 / Calm Pokemaster ]

    Overview
    ########

    At first glance, Vivillon seems to be a bit of a pushover, just like almost every other generation's generic Bug-type Pokemon. However, Vivillon breaks this trend with its access to an accurate Sleep Powder and Hurricane outside of rain courtesy of its Compound Eyes ability, as well as an incredible boosting move in Quiver Dance, securing it a spot in UU as a deadly sweeper and wallbreaker. Unfortunately, Vivillon is hampered by relatively severe downfalls. Its base stats are nothing to write home about, and as such, it heavily relies upon Quiver Dance to fulfill its role. Despite Vivillon's immunity to Sticky Web and Spikes, it loses half of its health upon switching into Stealth Rock, limiting its longevity. Its defensive typing doesn't do it any favors either, with weaknesses to common Fire-, Flying-, and Rock-type attacks. Vivillon is also extremely susceptible to status afflictions; paralysis essentially makes it useless, while poison and burn break its Focus Sash and wear it down. In addition to this, Vivillon can be played around due to only having one viable set to use and being extremely one-dimensional in that regard. Overall, while Vivillon is certainly a threat to be prepared for, it is not by any means unstoppable.

    Quiver Dance Wallbreaker
    ########
    name: Quiver Dance Wallbreaker
    move 1: Sleep Powder
    move 2: Quiver Dance
    move 3: Hurricane
    move 4: Bug Buzz
    ability: Compound Eyes
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    item: Life Orb / Focus Sash
    nature: Timid

    Moves
    ========
    Vivillon's signature set primarily relies on its first three moves: Sleep Powder, Quiver Dance, and Hurricane. Sleep Powder nearly guarantees a free Quiver Dance on any non-Grass-type or Overcoat user, and with 97% accuracy, it doesn't rely much on chance. Quiver Dance is essential, boosting Vivillon's Special Attack and Speed stats to more threatening levels and paving the way for a potential sweep. Hurricane is Vivillon's strongest STAB move; with its 91% accuracy and decent coverage, it is a very spammable move that can deal heavy damage even when resisted. Bug Buzz is a great secondary STAB move, hitting most Pokemon that resist Flying for neutral damage; it also has a chance to lower Special Defense and bypasses Substitutes. Substitute can used over Bug Buzz to ease prediction and block status, as mono-Flying-type coverage is great offensive coverage on its own.

    Set Details
    ========
    The given EV spread maximizes Vivillon's Special Attack and Speed stats, as it needs all the power and Speed it can get to begin and continue sweeping. A Timid nature is crucial to outspeed Choice Scarf Heracross after a Quiver Dance boost, allowing Vivillon to OHKO it with a 4x super effective Hurricane. The four leftover EVs are tossed into Special Defense, as Quiver Dance boosts it anyway and Vivillon is already horrendously frail on the physical side. The items both have their benefits; Life Orb allows Vivillon to effectively break through special walls, something it cannot do with any other item, while Focus Sash ensures that Vivillon will be able to either put the opposing Pokemon to sleep or set up. Alternatively, a Lum Berry can be used to give Vivillon a layer of protection against debilitating status afflictions.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    Vivillon surprisingly forces a large amount of switches, especially if the opponent's Pokemon is a wall or a win condition, so capitalize on this properly, and Vivillon can find itself with more than one Quiver Dance boost under its belt. Vivillon's one-dimensional nature can also be used to its advantage; double-switch into a favorable match-up, set up a Quiver Dance, or go straight for a Hurricane as the opponent brings in their Grass-type to absorb the predicted Sleep Powder. Using Quiver Dance on the switch is often the best play, as Vivillon can usually outspeed most Grass-types lacking a Choice Scarf and hit even harder at +1 Special Attack. However, do be cautious of Overcoat users, as they can switch into Sleep Powder with no repercussion. The common Choice Scarf Victini and Darmanitan will also outspeed Vivillon even after a Quiver Dance, so be wary if the opponent has either of these two Pokemon in their team. Taunt also cripples Vivillon by preventing it from using Sleep Powder or Quiver Dance, so keep it away from common users of this move such as Aerodactyl. Vivillon can also be used on hyper offensive teams; send it in after your team's suicide lead has been KOed to prevent setup or removal of entry hazards by the opponent.

    Team Options
    ========
    A Defogger or spinner is nearly essential, as Vivillon hates losing half of its health from Stealth Rock upon switching in; Empoleon, Blastoise, and Starmie fit this role relatively well, taking Fire-type attacks relatively well and Starmie can even act as a status absorber with Natural Cure. Defensive Defog Flygon is an excellent partner, walling pretty much any physical Fire-type while clearing entry hazards. Vivillon also pairs well with setup sweepers such as Toxicroak and Azelf, which can easily dispatch the Grass-types that it attracts. Volt Switch or U-turn users also benefit Vivillon, allowing it to enter the battlefield unscathed. Trappers such as Dugtrio can also work well with Vivillon, eliminating the various Electric- and Steel-types that bother it. Pokemon that appreciate special walls gone are also great teammates, as Vivillon functions well as a wallbreaker with the combination of Sleep Powder and Quiver Dance.

    Other Options
    ########
    Roost can be used on a mono-attacking set with Leftovers for a more sustained assault. A dual screens set can be used to some effect, but Vivillon performs much better as a wallbreaker and Meowstic-M can set up dual screens more reliably with Prankster. Aromatherapy can also be placed in the last slot to act as a cleric, but Vivillon needs to make full use of every turn in order to set up and wallbreak. Powder is a very intriguing move that allows Vivillon to counter Pokemon locked into a Fire-type move, such as the previously mentioned Choice Scarf Victini and Darmanitan. Powder cancels out the opponent's Fire-type moves and deals 25% of their max HP as damage, effectively forcing a switch.

    Checks & Counters
    ########
    **Status**: Most status effects cripple Vivillon; paralysis essentially removes all the Speed boosts gained from Quiver Dance, while poison and burn slowly whittle down Vivillon's HP. Prankster Thunder Wave or Stun Spore is especially dangerous coming from Meowstic-M and Whimsicott, respectively.

    **Phazers**: Most phazers such as Milotic or Empoleon have the bulk to take a boosted Hurricane and can then proceed to nullify Vivillon's boosts with Roar, Whirlwind, or Dragon Tail.

    **Taunt**: Taunt blocks Sleep Powder and Quiver Dance, which are both mandatory for Vivillon to actually be of use. Prominent users include Aerodactyl, Sableye, and Whimicott.

    **Faster Pokemon**: Most faster Pokemon can OHKO Vivillon due to its paper-thin defenses unless its Focus Sash is used. Choice Scarf Darmanitan and Victini in particular are extremely threatening, outspeeding Vivillon even at +1 and taking it out with a STAB Fire-type move.

    **Overcoat users**: Overcoat users generally check Vivillon well, as they don't have to worry about an incoming Sleep Powder. Forretress and Assualt Vest Escavalier serve as roadblocks to Vivillon, gaining momentum with Volt Switch and using it for setup fodder, respectively.

    **Mega Aerodactyl**: Mega Aerodactyl resists both of Vivillon's STAB moves while also being able to outspeed and Taunt Vivillon before it can use Sleep Powder. Both of Mega Aerodactyl's STAB moves also hit Vivillon for super effective damage.


    jack skellington (open)

    Overview
    ########
    +97% accurate sleep powder
    +91% accurate hurricane even without rain
    +Access to Quiver Dance
    +Flying / Bug is decent coverage, hitting all but Steel-types for at least neutral damage
    -Horrendous base stats; it folds to neutral hits, and it can't hit fast or hard without a QD
    -4x SR weakness, although defog buff is kinda nice
    -Crappy defensive typing, leaves it with 5 very common weaknesses
    -More one-dimensional than Porygon ffs
    -(Prankster) Taunt / Paralysis makes it basically useless
    -Small movepool; mfw no Baton Pass

    Quiver Dance Sweeper
    ########
    name: Quiver Dance Sweeper
    move 1: Sleep Powder
    move 2: Quiver Dance
    move 3: Hurricane
    move 4: Bug Buzz
    ability: Compoundeyes
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    item: Life Orb / Focus Sash
    nature: Timid

    Moves
    ========
    -Sash + Sleep Powder lets you get a free QD up
    -Quiver Dance boosts Vivillon's Speed + SpA to usable stats, and to a lesser extent, SpD
    -110BP STAB Hurricane actually hits pretty hard after a single QD, and with 91% accuracy, spam it
    -Bug Buzz is secondary STAB, but has shitty coverage by itself
    -Substitute can be used over Bug Buzz since mono-Flying is a great offensive type

    Set Details
    ========
    -252 Special Attack to hit as hard as possible
    -252 Speed because you need to set up QD / put something to sleep asap
    -4 Special Defense cause QD boosts it anyways, and it dies to literally any unresisted physical hit
    -Focus Sash so you get a guaranteed QD / Sleep Powder, provided you don't get Taunted
    -Timid nature to take full advantage of Vivillon's speed tier, allowing it to outspeed the common Scarf Heracross after a single QD
    -Lum for a layer of protection against status

    Usage Tips
    ========
    -Never switch into sand or hail, otherwise bye bye sash, bye bye Vivillon
    -Use Vivillon's one-dimensional nature to your advantage; double-switch or go straight for the SE Hurricane / Bug Buzz as they switch into their Grass-type to absorb the Sleep Powder
    -Alternatively, Quiver Dance as they switch, then wreck the Grass-type with a +1 STAB move
    -Overcoat now gives immunity to powder moves, so look out for common Overcoat users like Escavalier
    -Vivillon surprisingly forces a lot of switches, but remember to look out for Sleep Clause
    -Remember that even after a QD, Vivillon can't outspeed Scarf Victini and Darmanitan, two very common Fire-types that will proceed to annihilate this butterfly

    Team Options
    ========
    -Defogger or spinner, SR hurts XY's butterfly hard + breaks sash
    -Rain is nice; that 9% miss on Hurricane won't matter and Fire moves won't be doing as much damage
    -Setup sweepers that you can bring in after Sleep Powder cripples something
    -Steel-types can tank most of the SE hits Vivillon attracts
    -Status absorbers, cause Vivillon gets crippled by literally any status
    -A slow Volt Switch / U-turn lets Vivillon get in unscathed
    -Shadow Tag / Arena Trap trappers can eliminate Electric- and Steel-types that give Vivillon trouble, especially helpful if you opt for a mono-attacking set

    Other Options
    ########
    -Roost
    -Dual Screens
    -Aromatherapy
    -Powder

    Checks & Counters
    ########
    -Most status afflictions; paralysis wastes all its QD Speed boosts, burn and poison break sash and wear it down, and being asleep / frozen gives opponents free turns
    -Most dedicated special walls take pitiful damage, even from boosted Hurricanes
    -Taunt, especially with Prankster because it basically shuts down Vivillon before it can put something to sleep or set up a Quiver Dance
    -Faster Pokemon can outright OHKO Vivillon, provided its sash is broken
    -Sand and hail break sash and whittle down Vivillon's HP
    -Most Pokemon that carry resistances to Vivillon's STABs can easily force it out
    -Phazers like Empoleon and Milotic remove QD boosts and can break sash if using Dragon Tail
    -Fake Out breaks sash and wastes a turn, and faster mons can pick it off; notably Ambipom as it can Fake Out, then proceed to outspeed and KO Vivillon
    -Forretress has Overcoat, can hit hard with Gyro Ball or gain momentum with Volt Switch, breaking Vivillon's sash at the very least
    Last edited by a moderator: May 17, 2014
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  2. horyzhnz

    horyzhnz faith is my pillar
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    This should be ready for QC lads
  3. Calloflochie

    Calloflochie mfw i see chimpact's subscriber count
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    -Slash Life Orb with Focus Sash, it's designed to be a wallbreaker and LO boosts it's ability to do this and basically you don't need that many slashes for the final slot, Sleep Powder + QD + Hurricane + Bug Buzz is pretty much all Vivillon will need seeing as 90% of the steels in UU are Psychic too so hit neutrally by Bug Buzz (same strength as SE HP fire/ground).
    -For last slot I could see Sub being slashed with Bug Buzz in order to make it a mono attacking beast since Flying is a great offensive type.
    -Mention Timid is important since it sits in a fairly important speed tier (being able to outspeed Scarf Hera after QD).
    -Team Options add trappers like Dugtrio since it can eliminate Electric Types and Steel types that give Vivillon problems (trapping is especially good if you opt for mono attacking vivillon)
    -Take Sub mono attacker out of other options since it is an extremely effective strat to use.
    -C&C add Forre (overcoat + gyro ball/volt switch can really hurt vivillon or at least break it's sash

    Make all of these changes and comment on the post on my wall and i'll QC 1/3, great work!
  4. Calloflochie

    Calloflochie mfw i see chimpact's subscriber count
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    Tagging Limitless in this since he has a lot of experience with Vivillon. If he thinks everything important has been mentioned and gives QC 1/3, i'm more than happy to give the second check. Nice work for a first analysis!
  5. Limitless

    Limitless Success is the best revenge.
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    In addition to what lochie already said, I don't really see the point in slashing in Substitute, but whatever. I think you should mention it, but not slash it.

    You should also mention the main drawback of Vivillion, which is that even after +1 you don't outspeed Choice Scarf Victini and Darmanitan.
  6. horyzhnz

    horyzhnz faith is my pillar
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    Okay, done. Substitute has been deslashed and mentioned in 'moves' while Vivillon not being able to outspeed Scarf Victini + darm is detailed in 'usage tips'.
  7. Limitless

    Limitless Success is the best revenge.
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    Slash Life Orb before Focus Sash.
  8. horyzhnz

    horyzhnz faith is my pillar
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    Done.
  9. Limitless

    Limitless Success is the best revenge.
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  10. Calloflochie

    Calloflochie mfw i see chimpact's subscriber count
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    Well since Limitless is the resident Vivillon expert, if he's happy with the analysis, that's good enough for me.

    QC 2/3
  11. horyzhnz

    horyzhnz faith is my pillar
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    ily both. thanks you two, I'll start writing this up in a few minutes.
  12. horyzhnz

    horyzhnz faith is my pillar
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    Vivillon has been written up, and is ready for QC check no.3.
  13. Delibird is Amazing

    Delibird is Amazing

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    1d is just a straight line lol. porygon is a 3d model. Just say it is one dimensional without using a metaphor that doesn't even make sense.
  14. horyzhnz

    horyzhnz faith is my pillar
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    wow ok im so sorry for trying to make a crappy joke. nerd.
    But yeah, bulbapedia has enlightened me so it's been changed, cheers.
    Last edited: May 11, 2014
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  15. MyNameIsVeryCreative

    MyNameIsVeryCreative Banned deucer.

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    I don't see any mention of hidden power ground anywhere, it should definitely replace bug buzz as it provides much more reliable coverage for hitting steel and electric types (hurricane resists) super effectively. The mention of phazers should be removed from the checks and counters section. Sure, Milotic and Empoleon can stomach boosted hurricanes, but why wouldn't Vivillon put them to sleep first then finish them off? I mean it's not like sleep powder has any noticable chance of missing thanks to compound eyes. Also hp ground demolishes Empoleon anyway, another great reason of why bug buzz should never be used over hp ground. I guess the only phazer Vivillon fears is Zapdos.
  16. Calloflochie

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    +1 252 SpA Vivillon Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 110-130 (29.5 - 34.9%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

    I wouldn't exactly call that 'demolishing' Empoleon. Vivillon does have counters but there is no point running Hp ground specifically for a mon that it hardly damages anyway. Pretty much all the relevant Steel types in the tier are part Psychic type meaning they take more damage from a neutral Bug Buzz than they do from a super effective Hidden Power Ground while Bug Buzz has the added chance of causing a Spdef drop AND it's a sound move so it hits mons through Substitute. So no I don't think HP ground should be even slashed with Bug Buzz, I suppose he could mention HP's provide more SE coverage but due to the HP nerf in gen 6 that doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be more useful than a neutral STAB hit. Hopefully that explains why Bug Buzz is preferred over Hidden Power :]
  17. Limitless

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    Life Orb's main selling point is that it allows it to actually break special walls. With Focus Sash it can't do that; so say that instead of this line I quoted.

    Additionally, when you talk about potential teammates for Vivillon, you should mention that Pokemon that take advantage of special walls being broken are the best partners. Vivillon is used as a breaker, not a sweeper. You should probably also mention that Vivillon can be used on heavy offensive teams and be sent in right after the suicide lead has been used. What this allows is for the opposing Pokemon to not be able to Defog, Rapid Spin, or setup hazards. This is huge when offensive teams rely on momentum.

    Lastly, some of your paragraphs still talk as if you're using the Focus Sash set. Make it so that Vivillon is more of a breaker of special walls.

    When you change all this I'll give you the final QC.
  18. horyzhnz

    horyzhnz faith is my pillar
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    sleep clause exists maybe? also i have no idea why in god's name you'd stay in on an empoleon; that thing walls you pretty damn hard even with hp ground / fighting and can just roar you out. HP should only ever be used for hitting 4x weak mons, ie, ice for gligar or flygon and so on since 2x effective HPs are more or less going to deal similar damage to a neutral STAB move.

    anyway, Limitless, included more details about moves and teammates and also fixed up the paragraphs to reflect its wallbreaking purposes. also did not realise the same person can QC something twice.
  19. Limitless

    Limitless Success is the best revenge.
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    Yea I can't; my bad.
  20. horyzhnz

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    luhl. any other UU QC members on?
  21. MyNameIsVeryCreative

    MyNameIsVeryCreative Banned deucer.

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    Lol my Vivillon is life orbed and most of the time I end up with at least +2 special attack thanks to sleep powder.

    +2 252 SpA Life Orb Vivillon Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 190-224 (51 - 60.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (86.7% chance to 2HKO without rocks)

    So yeah, I would say demolish is fairly accurate when it 2HKO's all Empoleon variants at +2
    Good point about bug buzz too.

    Ha ha sorry I forgot about sleep clause :P point taken.
  22. Calloflochie

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    I wouldn't exactly say it's realistic to assume that Vivillon has taken at least 1 hit maybe 2, then for some reason the person has decided to switch out, then Empoleon come in. Just face it, HP ground isn't that good of an option, it's not like Empoleon is a top 3 usage mon, it's number 22 looking at the 1695 stats with stuff above it like Mew (who is hit SE by Bug Buzz), Manectric who takes the same amount from Bug Buzz anyway, Darm who takes more from neutral Hurricane, Umbreon who is hit SE by Bug Buzz and Slowbro who is also Hit SE by Bug Buzz. HP ground has been mentioned but there's almost no reason to run it BESIDES hitting a single mon who isn't exactly common while losing out on valuable coverage on Psychic and Dark types.
  23. MyNameIsVeryCreative

    MyNameIsVeryCreative Banned deucer.

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    Ok! I give in! You win! Bug buzz is generally a better option than hp ground!
  24. Kushalos

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    Since when does Vivillon attract Grass types?_?

    Remove this and mention a Mono-attacking Hurricane QD set set with Leftovers and Roost.

    Mention defensive Defog Flygon as a partner, as it walls the hell out of physical Fire-types.

    Rephrase this, Choice Scarf pokemon like Victini and Darm should be mentioned, and Ambipom falls under the category of powerful priority moves(not even sure if Ambipom and priority are worth mentioning because Ambipom is nowhere to be seen and theres a lack of good priority moves in the tier).

    Add Mega Aerodactyl to the C&C section, as it walls its STABs and can Taunt to stop it from setting up or using Sleep Powder.

    If this is all written up I will give you the 3rd QC check. n_n
  25. horyzhnz

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    they come in to absorb the sleep powder. also i have changed the things you mentioned.

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