Volcarona (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by zdrup15, Nov 30, 2010.

  1. zdrup15

    zdrup15
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    QC Approvals: Iconic, PK Gaming and Bloo

    GP Approvals: Athenodoros and NatGeo

    [Overview]
    <p>The latest addition to the normally hilariously weak pool of moth-based Pokemon, Volcarona boasts a unique Bug / Fire type combination and an interesting movepool highlighted by Quiver Dance. Although its typing gives Volcarona a quadruple weakness to Stealth Rock in addition to leaving it vulnerable to both forms of Spikes, it also grants resistances to common priority moves such as Bullet Punch, Mach Punch, and Vacuum Wave. Bug / Fire also gives Volcarona powerful STAB attacks, making it a huge offensive threat.</p>

    <p>Accompanying its good offensive typing, Volcarona possesses base stats that seem almost tailor-made for its role as a boosting special sweeper, though it also performs well when taking advantage of its capability to be specially defensive. As Volcarona dances its way to the top of OU's threatlist, its unique combination of stats, moves, and typing attracts players like a moth to a flame.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Quiver Dance
    move 1: Quiver Dance
    move 2: Bug Buzz
    move 3: Fiery Dance / Fire Blast
    move 4: Hidden Power Rock / Hidden Power Ground
    nature: Timid
    item: Life Orb
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Volcarona's stat spread screams special sweeper and this is the most offensive approach to it. Quiver Dance is the boosting move of choice and for good reason. It not only boosts Volcarona's Special Attack and Speed making it a fearsome special sweeper but the Special Defense boost also makes it a lot harder to revenge kill. Bug Buzz is the Bug-type STAB move of choice and is a reliable and powerful attack that will cripple anything that doesn't resist it after some boosts. Fiery Dance is the best Fire-type STAB, even though it is weaker than some other options, because of its secondary effect, which raises its Special Attack, making it better in the long run. Despite these powerful attacks, there is a significant number of Pokemon in OU that resist this combination. Hidden Power Rock is the best option and lets it hit Gyarados, Dragonite, and Salamence for super effective damage, just to name a few.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Timid nature and this EV spread are typical for a special sweeper and they work well with this set, since they maximize Volcarona's Speed, allowing it to tie with other base 100 Speed Pokemon such as Ninetales, Mew, and Celebi and set up on them. The 252 Special Attack EVs are used to maximize Volcarona's damage output and the leftover EVs should go into Special Defense. Life Orb is the best item for this set since Volcarona is not supposed to be around for long and will want to maximize the destruction it causes.</p>

    <p>Fire Blast is the second best option after Fiery Dance in the third slot because Fire Blast has tremendous power, but its accuracy is less than perfect and will let Volcarona down sometimes. Also, Fiery Dance's secondary effect may provide the moth with a damage output as great as Fire Blast after just one use, while still being much more reliable and enabling some important OHKOs at +1. On the last slot, as previously mentioned, Volcarona must carry a Hidden Power for coverage purposes. Hidden Power Ground stands out as the second best option for its ability to destroy Heatran.</p>

    <p>The first thing one has to take into account when using Volcarona is the presence of entry hazards on the field. With entry hazards being everywhere, 4x weakness to Stealth Rock isn't the only problem and, with Life Orb as its item, it will want to switch in as healthy as possible. Therefore, a Rapid Spinner is always a good teammate: Excadrill attracts the Fighting-type attacks which Volcarona can set up on; Starmie attracts Bug- and Grass-types that are free switch-ins for the moth.</p>

    <p>No matter what it does, with this set, Volcarona can't beat some dedicated special walls. Chansey / Blissey are the worst nightmares of most special sweepers and this something one needs to address when using the Offensive Quiver Dance. Pairing Volcarona with a strong physical attacker that can beat these two Pokemon is therefore a must: Conkeldurr can switch in on everythink the pink duo throws at it, even status moves, and proceed to beat them to a pulp; Scrafty is another example of a good teammate, with its ability keeping it safe from status, while its Fighting-type weakness provides opportunities for Volcarona to switch in and set up.</p>

    [SET]
    name: ChestoRest
    move 1: Quiver Dance
    move 2: Rest
    move 3: Fire Blast / Fiery Dance
    move 4: Bug Buzz
    nature: Modest
    ability: Flame Body
    item: Chesto Berry
    evs: 160 HP / 252 SpA / 96 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>ChestoRest may seem weird at first, but there are some reasons it works. Taking advantage of Volcarona's natural special bulk, this set attempts to set up as many Quiver Dances as possible as your opponent keeps attacking and then use Rest to heal off any damage and status the moth might have taken. From that point on, it's sweeping time!</p>

    <p>Quiver Dance is obviously the boosting move of choice and will allow Volcarona to set up easier, which helps as it will be taking damage while dancing. Rest is the crux of this set and it's wonderful when used alongside Quiver Dance because it turns Volcarona into a really fast hard-hitter at full health, while also having the bulk to take hits from the special side of the spectrum. Fire Blast is the superior option as this set will often get at least 2 or 3 boosts, making it a devastating move. Bug Buzz is the Bug-type attack of choice and it really helps to have a reliable and powerful move when Volcarona's faced with a Pokemon that is gambling on a Fire Blast miss to destroy it.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Modest nature with max Special Attack EVs let Volcarona hit as hard as it possibly can, thus allowing the moth to overcome its opponents with STAB boosted Bug Buzz and Fire Blast. 96 Speed EVs are just enough to outspeed Choice Scarf Terrakion at +2, possibly saving the moth from a OHKO from Stone Edge. The rest of the EVs are dumped on HP to provide some much needed bulk, and therefore more setup turns. On this set, Volcarona can't really afford not to carry the aforementioned moves. Every move on this set is crucial and the only change one should consider is Fiery Dance over Fire Blast. They both have their merits, but Fire Blast provides more initial power, letting the moth start destroying its opponents off the bat. Fiery Dance does offer a more reliable alternative but the power difference will be very noticeable, especially when the physical bulk can be easily exploitable.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock is obviously a huge problem for Volcarona as taking 50% of health just to switch in has the potential to ruin its setup chances, but there's something worse for this set: phazing. And not only because of the residual damage phazing racks on Volcarona, but also because this set aims to get as many boosts as possible and then Rest, taking advantage of Chesto Berry to heal. However, since there aren't Leftovers to provide more durability or Life Orb to give more power, if the moth is phazed after having consumed its Berry, you'll end up with a item-less, not-so-fast Pokemon, which will have a really hard time setting up.</p>

    <p> For the aforementioned reason, Pokemon such as Vaporeon and Heatran with Roar are Pokemon you need to severely cripple, to say the least, for Volcarona to sweep. Virizion is therefore a good partner as it can easily dispose of both threats with its STAB attacks and has overall good synergy with the moth. Shaymin is also a good choice because it can use Earth Power to KO Heatran, as well as STAB boosted Seed Flare to obliterate Vaporeon.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Quiver Dance
    move 1: Quiver Dance
    move 2: Fiery Dance
    move 3: Bug Buzz
    move 4: Morning Sun
    nature: Bold
    ability: Flame Body
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set exchanges raw power for bulk and lets Volcarona set up multiple Quiver Dances, but should be used mainly on Sun teams. It capitalizes on Volcarona's great special bulk (for a sweeper) and, when played well, it can easily sweep. Quiver Dance is the boosting move of choice and it raises Volcarona's best stats, making it tremendously bulky after a few boosts. Fiery Dance is the Fire STAB move of choice and it is exactly what this set needs: a strong and reliable attack that may achieve further boosts and thus lets Volcarona sweep better. Bug Buzz is the secondary STAB, hitting the Water-types that pack a Fire-type resistance like Vaporeon and Suicune. Morning Sun may seem awkward on a metagame plagued with Sandstorm teams and it's the main reason why Volcarona performs the bulky sweeper job much better on Sun teams, where Morning Sun recovers most of the moth's health, transforming it into a very tough Pokemon to break.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>As this set's goal is to focus on bulk, Bold is the preferred nature and almost all the EVs are invested in its Defense and HP to maximize its weaker defensive stat. This, combined with the ability Flame Body allows for a much better chance to set up on physical attacks. To achieve more boosts, Leftovers is the preferred item for the greater durability it provides. This sets' four moves are all staples and therefore there aren't any alternatives as good as the ones already on the set.</p>

    <p>This set doesn't fear Stealth Rock as much but it requires Rapid Spin support for a slightly different reason: Toxic Spikes. Since Volcarona isn't hitting as hard off the bat, it needs to be around for a while to be dangerous and poison completely ruins it. As previously mentioned, Ninetales is a very important teammate because it provides the moth with a reliable healing move. Volcarona also has troubles with strong physical attackers that aren't hit by its STAB attacks for super effective damage: Terrakion and Landorus are excellent examples. Therefore, Forretress is one of the best teammates as it can spin Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock, and fares well against the three previously mentioned Pokemon. Starmie is another good option for the good synergy between it and the moth, and for the ability to spin while still being a threat to the aforementioned Pokemon. If one's using Volcarona on a sun team, Venusaur is a great partner to absorb Toxic Spikes, enjoying the free switch-ins Volcarona can provide by attracting the opponent's Water- and Rock-types.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Volcarona has a number of moves it could use on the more offensive sets, such as: Flamethrower, Silver Wind, Psychic, Hurricane, and Solarbeam. Flamethrower is a reliable and powerful STAB attack that can be used instead of Fiery Dance or Fire Blast since it's more powerful than the former and more reliable than the latter. However, they both offer either a better secondary effect or just more power, leaving Flamethrower outclassed. Silver Wind is an alternative for Bug Buzz and does have a wonderful secondary effect, but it's so rare that the drop in power isn't justified. On a metagame with a myriad of Fighting-types, one can't overlook Psychic as a good option to hit them for super effective damage. What makes it a not-so-good option is the fact that Volcarona would rather set up on those Pokemon than promptly eliminate them. Hurricane has poor accuracy when used outside of Rain. The final move, Solarbeam, is a good option if one's using the moth on a Sun team, as its downside is nullified. However, should the opponent switch a Tyranitar in on a Solarbeam, Volcarona is in danger of being OHKOed.</p>

    <p>In the defensive / support department, Volcarona also has many viable options, such as Toxic, Will-O-Wisp, Light Screen, and Whirlwind, but it is usually better setting up Quiver Dances to attempt a sweep than supporting the team because its Defense stat won't let it perform as a status inducer / phazer as well as other much bulkier Pokemon.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>The main obstacle for Volcarona is obviously Stealth Rock. It takes away 50% of Volcarona's health each time it switches in and thus, Pokemon that can set it up are indirectly a problem for the moth: Heatran, Hippowdon, Ferrothorn, and Tyranitar are some examples of such Pokemon for their ability to set Stealth Rock up so reliably.</p>

    <p>Even though Volcarona has great Special Attack and great STAB moves, there are some Pokemon in OU that resist both of them and that can KO the moth in return. Gyarados, Dragonite, Salamence, Heatran, and Terrakion are the most important ones, and they can all give troubles to Volcarona in return. Gyarados has Waterfall, Dragonite and Salamence have either Dragon Tail or very strong physical Dragon STAB moves, Heatran can use Roar, and Terrakion destroys it with STAB Stone Edge. The first three however must first be sure that Volcarona isn't running an offensive set with Hidden Power Rock and the latter two have to be careful about Hidden Power Ground.</p>

    <p>Lastly, Volcarona relies mostly on its Fire-type attack to inflict damage on its opponents. Therefore, Rain teams reduce the moth's ability to perform and, besides that, those type of teams usually include some really dangerous Pokemon for Volcarona. Politoed with its Drizzle ability can unleash very strong rain-boosted Hydro Pumps to end the moth's stay on the field. In the sweepers department, rain abusing Dragonite and Tornadus have very powerful STAB Hurricanes that can OHKO Volcarona.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>Volcarona's Dream World ability is Swarm. Taking into account its Special Defense is much better than its Defense, it will be more targeted by physical attackers and so, Flame Body has the potential of giving it more setup turns, while crippling the opponent's Pokemon. Therefore, it is always the superior option.</p>
  2. PooF

    PooF

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    BUMP.

    This is pretty much done for now. Any feedback, set suggestions or anything else would be greatly appreciated. I'm not sure if Kerudio or Ditto mentiones are allowed, if not, i'll remove them.

    Also, credits for Bulky Butterfly Dancer set go to Sphyxius for the most part.
  3. PooF

    PooF

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    BUMP.

    Since there are no complaints or suggestions i'll just submit this for QC.
    (Feedback is still welcome :) )
  4. imperfectluck

    imperfectluck
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    I would suggest running this through spell and grammar check.
  5. Eo Ut Mortus

    Eo Ut Mortus Elodin's #1 Fan and Ghoster
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    Remove any mentions of Kerudio, who is an unreleased event Pokemon. I'm leaning towards mentioning Hidden Power Ground as a primary option, at the very least over Psychic, especially since a resisted Fire Blast does just as much as Psychic. I am also unsure about the more defensive set, as I've never encountered it - can you give any specific examples of how the additional bulk helps Urugamosu?
  6. Megan_Fox

    Megan_Fox

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    I agree with what Eo said, a Fire Blast hits Fighting types as hard Psychic with the exception of Terakion who is also hit by HP Ground. When you factor in the additional coverage HP Ground gets, it should have the slash over Psychic. Additionally, I would give Hurricane an AC/OC mention as well as it allows Uragamosu to have coverage similar to Psychic in exchange for more power but less accuracy. The confuse rate could be nice too. Additionally, I would give Passho Berry an AC mention as well as many of Uragamosus counters rely on water type attacks to attack it.
  7. PooF

    PooF

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    I thought that part comes after QC checks?

    Removed mentiones of Kerudio, Hidden Power Ground slashed over Psychic.
    About defensive set, it plays very differently than offensive set. Offensive set works like most dragon dancers (except that it's special), while bulky set works more like calm minders, with a bonus of raising it's speed aswell. It can easily setup alongside most of them and defeat them (even water types). One of the biggest selling points of that set is (though that is only in dream world setting) that it can defeat ditto by switching between butterfly dance and morning sun until ditto runs out of PP. Obviously it can setup on a much larger portion of the metagame than offensive set and it's much harder to take out. I could run some calcs to show the difference, but it's really not about few specific pokemon, as we're talking about very large difference in bulk here, not just few EVs to counter specific threat. Imo bulky set is actually a lot better than offensive one, i've been using it a lot and it pretty much single handedly got me to top 10 on DW ladder.

    Hurricane already has OC mention. I also give OC mention to passho berry, though i don't think it's a very good choice myself. Most of Urugamosu's water type counters are bulky waters, which usually use special attack, so they will almost never OHKO. I guess it would help against Aqua jet users or maybe Kingdra, but it will probably usually be consumed when hit by say, Burungeru's boiling water (that would do about 30% otherwise). Because of that Leftovers are usually a better choice. Also Urugamosu should often be used in the sun, where passho berry isn't needed.
  8. ungulateman

    ungulateman

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    First sentence seems to be missing word "the" at start.

    See how annoying writing like that is? While the rest is reasonable, you should formalise this a bit. See the Zekrom analysis, as it's the usual example of a good analysis.
  9. Setsuna

    Setsuna Prototype
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    I'm dubious about the second set's effectiveness. I'll try it out and get back to you with my results. In addition to this, I would like to see mentioned in the AC section of the first set that Pokemon that can set up Reflect and Light Screen― like Deoxys-s, Azelf, and Uxie ―are great Pokemon to pair offensive Urugamosu with, as the screens can play a positive role prolonging its durability and therefore its sweep. If you also take into account that it will not always be possible to get rid of Stealth Rock before Urugamosu makes its first move in the battle, then it's pretty obvious that having both screens up is fantastic when the HP bar has passed the 50% line.
  10. PooF

    PooF

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    Done

    Sorry, english is obviously not my first language, but i thought i did decent enough job. As far as i know, spell and grammar check gets done on every analysis anyway, but if it sucks so bad, then someone can just write it from scratch. Also, this was written by copy pasting Zekrom analysis and changing text, so i obviously know how that analysis looks like.
  11. Calm Pokemaster

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    You are missing an "r" on Hidden Power Ground in SET 1. You might also want to consider running a Defense boosting nature on the Bulky BDance set, since the Speed or Spl. Atk boost you get from Modest / Timid won't be of much importance once you get the Butterfly Dance boosts.
  12. Sphyxius

    Sphyxius

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    You've never encountered it because its a relatively new idea and it goes against the grain somewhat. I for the most part created that set and gave it to Poof for this analysis. Its the only Ulgamoth set that I run. And, well, it is effective. It tends to live much longer and sweep more often. Rarely do I obtain a clean sweep with it but a 2-4/0 is not a rare occurrence, nor is 3 to 4 Butterfly Dances, after which you are more powerful, more bulky, and often have more HP remaining after the same number of turns thanks to leftovers, than the standard offensive dancer. I'm not saying its better; think of the offensive dancer as being an all or nothing type of set, whereas in the bulky dancer you have a bulkier spread and leftovers as an insurance policy. It does work as resistant as people may be to the idea.

    It is a set that you need to play differently than the offensive dancer. You're trying to maintain bulk for as long as possible so as to get up enough BDs to outgun the offensive dancer and still have enough bulk left over to take hits better. Saving it for late game or after another sweeper has fainted are excellent strategies. I haven't been on the ladder in a month as my windows emulator has crapped out. But I encourage people to test it and tell me what you think, so long as you keep in mind that the nature of the set is; to take time to boost, you need bulk, so this set gives you the best spread of bulk possible without completely neutering its offensive capabilities.

    I also veto stealth rock as a reason why this set is "dubious" as it would be a problem no matter what set you're running. As Poof put it in the overview, this is a pokemon that is actually very worthy of the rapid spin support it requires.

    The reason Modest or Timid is listed is to give a small foundation to its offenses for the boosts to build on. A defense boosting nature will add a 10% boost to a base 65 defense stat, which is pitiful. 10% of 100 or 135 is much better than 65. It just doesn't add enough bulk to be worth sacrificing investment in his speed or SpA.
  13. Eo Ut Mortus

    Eo Ut Mortus Elodin's #1 Fan and Ghoster
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    Tried the bulky dancer and liked it, particularly for its ability to set up on Pokemon like Burungeru and Heatran. The rest looks fine to me.

    QC Approved 1/2
  14. Bugbot

    Bugbot

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    [Month old topic bump, sorry]

    I think 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe is the best spread for the Offensive Urugamosu and 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD for the Defensive variant. Butterfly Dance ups SpD as well, those 4 EV's get more uses compared to the HP ones (for Offensive) and the 4 EV's in speed only let you outspeed Tentacruel, which SHUTS DOWN Defensive Urugamosu.
  15. Iconic

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    Flame Dance could probably be the primary option on the first set as it will help you way more in the long run than Fire Blast, since you'll presumably be sweeping multiple Pokemon with Butterfly Dance. Also Espeon and Xatu probably need mention as teammates thanks to their ability to bounce back Stealth Rock, making a Rapid Spinner unnecessary.

    QC Approved 2/2

    EDIT: and i've seen plenty of time where ulgamoth gets killed because fire blast misses??? anyways my point is that right now the metagame is heavily centralized around teams that have either a lot of fragile sweepers (see: birijion, borutorosu, etc) or walls (see: gliscor, nattorei, etc) who simply cant stand up to a +1 LO flame dance. against most teams, you're going to be killing a lot before LO takes you out assuming you set up properly, which is why flame dance becomes so valuable, since it just perpetuates ulgamoth's sweeping capabilities. the nature of butterfly dance makes it easier to get boosts from flame dance as well, since even if you cant KO something like burungeru, the special defense boost from butterfly dance means you can still live its attacks and boost up AND attack it at once with flame dance. the accuracy is also huge, as i'm guessing ulgamoth doesn't want a miss to end its chance at a clear win...

    it honestly makes very little difference in the analysis, but flame dance is such an amazing move and has a ton of merits over fire blast. just because it's an offensive set doesn't mean we should disregard its ability to boost over several turns with flame dance. i really don't care what the order ultimately ends up being, i'm just giving my input based on my extensive experience.
  16. shrang

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    I disagree with Flame Dance being the preferred option on the first set. The point of the set is to be as strong as possible as fast as possible. With the SpA boost, the second Flame Dance is about as strong as what Fire Blast would have been on the 2nd turn. So I ask, why not just use 2 Fire Blasts (Which would done more than a Flame Dance and a boosted Flame Dance, which is around a 1.5 Fire Blasts)?? There are plenty of times where I have seen Ulgamoth get killed because Flame Dance didn't KO the opponent when Fire Blast would have easily done the job. Flame Dance being the preferred option on 2nd set is fine, but I do think as an offensive sweeper, Fire Blast should be option 1 on the first set.
  17. A Man In Black

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    Speaking of water/rock resisters, Storm Drain Gastrodon and Water Absorb Quagsire both make great partners for Ulgamoth, since they benefit from both water attacks to switch into and someone to sponge grass attacks for them.
  18. 44lvlc0

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    it's too obvious. just put it in OU please.
  19. blarajan

    blarajan i was born under the same star as shakeitup
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    I would list Roobushin as a counter/check. Standard max HP Roobushin can take a +2 Flame Dance and OHKO with Stone Edge. He's my Urugamosu counter for my team; nothing else likes facing him. Unfortunately, he can only come in on a butterfly dance/ko.
  20. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed 90% of you people are whiny little children.
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    Isn't that a bit risky for Roobushin to be named a counter? It's a good thing Specially Defensive Roobushin can survive that much, but Fire Blast seems to be the standard for most Ulgamoths these days, and it hits apparently harder than Flame Dance at +1. Even if Roobushin IS Specially Bulky, it has to be lucky and hopefully stop entry hazard damage, otherwise +1 Fire Blast kills it. Keep in mind that you can hit twice as hard with two Fire Blasts rather than a weaker +2 Flame Dance.

    What's "too obvious"? We're still pending the analysis for all Pokemon, you know, so we can't just say "this Pokemon looks awesome, put it in OU". OU is based off usage, not how "awesome" a Pokemon is. And we ARE in the OU analyses.

    Also, I wanted to suggest a Chesto Berry + Rest + Butterfly Dance set with Maximum HP and Special Attack. Apparently, lots of people have been having a lot of success with similar sets in Uncharted Territory, and it plays almost like a ChestoRest Kingdra. Would this be an option on Bulky Butterfly Dance?
  21. PooF

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    Hmm, lots of interest in Urugamosu all of a sudden, and i thought this thread died :).

    Honestly, those 4 EVs make so little difference that it's hardy worth bothering with it. I did change Offensive Dancer's spread to what you suggested but i'm keeping Bulky Dancer's spread as it is. I know Butterfly dance ups SpD, but it also ups speed, and if those 4 EVs mean you can outspeed anything after a few boosts that otherwise you could not it's already worth more than 4 SpD EVs. Also, without status moves Tentacruel is just setup bait for defensive Urugamosu.

    On the whole Fire Blast vs. Flame Dance debate, all i can say is, sometimes you may lose the match because Flame Dance just misses out on KO, same as you may lose it because Fire Blast misses at crucial moment. Really, both moves are good and i feel it's really just whatever you prefer. For now, i'll just keep them slashed as they are since it really isn't that big of a deal imo. Thanks for QC check btw :) .

    Yeah, i completely forgot about those two. Added to Team Options.

    I suppose Roobushin can check Urugamosu, but it has to have the right EV spread, carry Stone Edge (some carry Payback) and hope there aren't too many spikes layers on the field. And even then it still fails if it switches into Fire Blast instead of Butterfly Dance. See, if i'd put him into analysis as a check, i'd have to go into all these details and it's really not worth it as he's very iffy check at best (and by no means a counter).

    I haven't tested this myself, but it sounds like a good idea. For now i've put it in AC on Bulky Dancer set (to avoid too many slashes). I'll test it a bit though.

    Umm, this is OU analysis forum.
  22. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed 90% of you people are whiny little children.
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    Oh, by the way,'delete mentions of unreleased Dream World Pokemon. I've been seeing that a few times throughout the analysis.
  23. PooF

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    I just skimmed through analysis again and all i found was one mention of ditto (which i removed).
  24. Sphyxius

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    147
    The fundamental flaw in this argument is an omission: Flame Dance may be weaker at first but it does boost your SpA 50% of the time. This is a hard boost to moth's stat, not like a Flash Fire boost or something, meaning if you need to use Bug Buzz or HP Rock they will also be boosted, which is huge.

    If you're a competitive player, that is, playing to win, you are expecting Ulgamoth to get a good solid sweep which means no misses and the boosts that Fire Dance accrues only further solidify those chances with every use of it. Not only that but when up against a wallish pokemon like Burunkeru or perhaps a tank with a means of healing the boost is also important, as it keeps the damage rising against pokemon Fire Blast could only 2KO that are just healing off the damage. Flame Dance keeps the pressure on so that after you are done BDing the opponent can't catch a breath lest you get another boost. We'd all like our battles to be a 6-0 sweep but they aren't like that. The fact is that Fire Blast can actually give your opponent free turns through misses, Flame Dance can take them away by gaining power. That means taking that free switch-in away, robbing them of a crucial turn of setup, all because you're doing damage AND boosting simultaneously. It may be weaker than Fire Blast across 2 turns, but after that it leaves it in the dust.

    Oh, and it has much better PP.
  25. Lee

    Lee @ Thick Club
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    4,443
    ^Another big selling point for Flame Dance, I've found, is for situations where you can't find the time to use Butterfly Dance and you can fall back on Flame Dance as a psuedo-Charge Beam. Flame Dance is so beautifully spammable, whether it's to pick off a weakened Pokemon or just scouting a counter...it's excellent for keeping pressure on the opponent.

    The PO statistics (yes, I know but they're all we have to work with atm) show an overwhelming preference for Flame Dance for what it's worth.

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