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Volcarona (Rain Volc - GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by shrang, Nov 13, 2011.

  1. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    So yeah, this set is really cool. I had a bit of free time tonight and decided to write up a skeleton because I don't want other people taking it =D.

    [​IMG]

    http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/volcarona

    [SET]
    name: Moths Like Water, Not Fire (Drizzle Volcarona)
    move 1: Quiver Dance
    move 2: Bug Buzz
    move 3: Hurricane
    move 4: Fire Blast / Substitute
    item: Leftovers / Life Orb
    nature: Modest / Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set might seem confusing to some people who lack imagination. While it might seem very strange to stick Volcarona, a Fire-type, on a rain team, if you look outside the box, then it will slowly become apparent that Volcarona fits on a rain team like a ligand fits on a receptor. The main attraction of this set is that Volcarona checks many Pokemon that threaten Drizzle teams, such as Celebi, Calm Mind Virizion, Toxicroak, Latias, Ferrothorn, and Scizor. It also gives rain teams a huge weapon to use against sun teams, since Volcarona is ridiculously powerful in the sun. The main thing to remember is that while Volcarona can often sweep, its primary objective is to support the team by checking the aforementioned threats.</p>

    <p>Bug Buzz is now Volcarona's main STAB attack, and it hits very hard after a Quiver Dance. In the rain, Hurricane is a viable option for Volcarona. With Hurricane, Volcarona can OHKO Choice Band Dragonite after Stealth Rock damage about 50% of the time, and hit Terrakion extremely hard. Defensive Dragonite cannot OHKO Volcarona with anything apart from Aqua Tail, while Volcarona can easily 2HKO with Hurricane in return. While it might seem counter-intuitive to use Fire Blast in the rain, it is still Volcarona's most powerful option against Ferrothorn, Scizor, and other Steel-types, such as Skarmory and Jirachi. Fire Blast cleanly OHKOes Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Scizor after Stealth Rock damage and puts a huge molten dent in Jirachi, even in the rain. It also becomes Volcarona's main weapon against sun teams. However, Substitute is another option for Volcarona to avoid status and Leech Seed from Pokemon such as Jirachi and Ferrothorn, respectively.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Although this set plays a more supportive role, its EVs are still used to maximize sweeping potential, as there is little other reason to run anything else. A Modest nature is preferred for the chance to OHKO Ferrothorn with an unboosted Fire Blast. Since Volcarona is mostly playing a support role, Leftovers is the preferred item to increase Volcarona's longevity. However, a Life Orb can be used to guarantee some very useful OHKOes, such as those against Dragonite, Terrakion, Gliscor, and Landorus, with Hurricane after a Quiver Dance and Stealth Rock damage, as well as Jirachi with Fire Blast after Spikes damage. It also guarantees an OHKO on Ferrothorn with Fire Blast without a Quiver Dance. Hidden Power Water can be used over Fire Blast or Substitute to heavily damage Heatran, but because rain teams have very little trouble against Heatran, the options presented are better.</p>

    <p>Like with all the other sets, Stealth Rock, Blissey, Chansey, and specially defensive Heatran with Toxic and Roar are huge thorns in Volcarona's side. Although rare, Snorlax and Empoleon also handily beat the fiery moth in the rain. Choice Scarf Landorus and Terrakion outspeed Volcarona even after one Quiver Dance and OHKO with Stone Edge. Tentacruel and Starmie are excellent Rapid Spinners to use in the rain. Toxicroak can switch into Blissey and Chansey with impunity, and gets extra HP recovery in the rain. Terrakion and Lucario also take down the two pink blobs extremely quickly. Dugtrio can trap and KO Heatran, as well as remove other weather inducers, namely Tyranitar and Ninetales. Bulkier Grass-types such as Virizion and Tangrowth can take on Landorus, while Latios is immune to Earthquake and easily OHKOes Landorus with Surf. Politoed is an essential teammate due to its ability to summon rain. Volcarona also appreciates entry hazards, especially Stealth Rock, as without it, it cannot scratch Multiscale Dragonite, who would KO in return.</p>
  2. liberty32

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    i think you should mention starmie as a teammate. it works great on rain teams with its insanely strong hydro pump, 100% accurate thunder, and most importantly rapid spin, which no ghost can safely spinblock because they all get smashed by the aforementioned hydro pump.
  3. Blue_Star

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    Mention Tentacruel as a good teammate, since it resists Water, lures Grass pokemon (where Volcarona can setup on), blows Stealth Rock away with Rapid Spin, sets up Toxic Spikes to hinder Blissey and can abuse Drizzle with Rain Dish + Protect. Politoed should have an obligatory mention as well, because it gives Hurricane that 100% accuraccy.

    I also think Substitute or Rest + Chesto Berry are excellent options to use on the 4th slot. Fire attacks in the rain are still too unorthodox IMO, while Substitute is awesome against stuff like Heatran (lacking Roar), Ferrothorn, Scizor, etc, and ChestoRest gives you a one-time full recovery, which is also excellent.

    But yeah, this set is beast.
  4. DestinyUnknown

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    I have used a similar set with great success. I think Substitute should be slashed on the last spot, since it allows volcarona to set up easier on pokemon like Rotom-W (which need to use the inaccurate Hydro Pump). It also protect from status, and help scout. And when using substitute, you don't need to use Fire Blast to KO ferrothorn, since it will now be set up-bait.
  5. Mynism

    Mynism

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    Been using this set for 5 or 6 months ! You should include a bulkier ev spread of 136hp/88d/252satk/32s and mention Chestorest. I personally used it cause I needed a check to NP Celebi, CM Virizion and classic Volcarona in my rain team.

    Actually Restochesto is for me the best available set, since Fiery dance/Fire blast Ferrothorn to death is dumb when you can just setup and rest. It can also beat Chansey/Blissey if you have a confusion or a SDef drop
  6. Delko

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    I used a similar set in the past but with Substitute as the last move to prevent status etc (most Steel types are hit harder by Bug Buzz or Hurricane in the Rain anyway (Jirachi and the likes).
    It works reasonably well with a bulky Toxicroak who can come in on the Water - and Rock type attacks.
  7. Lesser Smaug

    Lesser Smaug

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    Does +1 Timid Flamethrower in the rain still OHKO Ferrothorn?

    Damage calculations (open)
    It turns out +1 Flamethrower in the rain OHKOes Ferrothorn.

    Smogon's damage calculator says that Timid 252 SpA Volcarona deals 88.6% - 105.7% to 252 / 208 Ferrothorn with +0 Flamethrower in the rain - a clean OHKO after a layer of Spikes damage. With a Modest nature, you are dealing 95.5% - 113.6% in the same conditions. That is a clean OHKO after Stealth Rock damage.

    I have a couple of screenshots of the calculations, if you are still confused:



    The funny thing out of all of this is that Ferrothorn can still absorb STAB Fire-type attacks...with some difficulty.
  8. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

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    FINALLY!! You, sir shrang, are a god among men. This set has incredible power and surprise value if my words really count for anything. I've personally always used Fiery Dance as the primary Fire STAB for the SpA boost, accuracy, and that it still hurts Ferro/Forre/Sciz/Rachi badly enough that they don't want to switch into or stay on it. Many consider this set a joke. Far from it. Thank you, shrang!!
  9. Danilo

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    This is an excellent set, and the write up is great(better than mine @least). I've a similar set before but mine was a lot more bulky. I agree with Mynism, a bulky/ possibly chestorest set should be included, as that is another viable volcarona rain set. Good luck!
  10. Delta 2777

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    Slash Hidden Power Water in the last slot to take care of Heatran and OHKO some other stuff (Gliscor, Terrakion, Aerodactyl, Landorus, etc). Hidden Power Water still does a good amount to Steel-types like Skarmory in the rain. This is a very dangerous set, glad it's going up onsite.

    QC Approved (1/3)
  11. RaikouLover

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    I so fucking love this set.

    Nitpicks. Bug Buzz is more important than Hurricane. Move it up to 2. Don't give people the idea that Hurricane is the main move, Bug Buzz is still the main STAB. Hurricane is used for your traditional "counters." Also, don't bother with Fiery Dance or Flamethrower, you need the extra power for Jirachi and shit.

    +0 Modest Life Orb Fire Blast vs. Max / Max Ferrothorn (Rain): 109% Minimum
    +1 Modest Life Orb Fire Blast vs. Max / Max Jirachi - 77-91%

    Also, don't say "Fire Blast is only for Ferrthorn." You're still using Fire Blast against Skarmory, Jirachi, and other steels Hurricane doesn't hit neutral.

    I wouldn't bother. AC at best. Heatran it hits, but Rain teams typically don't care about him at all, and offensive Heatran's DO get 2HKOed by Hurricane. Remember, Heatran can't do anything back to you when its raining. Hidden Power Water weakens you significantly against some steels like Skarmory. For the other dudes:

    Modest LO +1 Hurricane vs. Max / Min Gliscor - 102-121%
    Modest LO +1 Hurricane vs. Min / Min Terakion - 97-114%
    Modest LO +1 Hurricane vs. Min / Min Landorus - 108-128%

    Wait, who uses Aerodactyl?
    Modest LO +1 Bug Buzz vs. Min / Min Aerodactyl - 68-80% (43.75% OHKO w/ SR)
  12. Pocket

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    Awesome read, shrang! Rain Volcarona always intrigued me, so I'm glad you brought this to C&C's attention!

    A Fire Blast in the rain is essentially a neutral Fire Blast, which always does more than a neutral Bug Buzz (no Steel is weak to Bug) / neutral Hurricane. I think people are severely underestimating the utility of Fire Blast. It removes pestering Steel Types that tries to take advantage of the Fire nerf, particularly Ferrothorn. Even more, it makes Volcarona a good answer to opposing Sun / Sand teams, which will remove the nerf on Fire Blast and nerfs Hurricane's accuracy. Fire Blast just makes Volcarona all the more flexible and pluripotent, lol.

    I also agree with Modest Nature as the primary slash. It gives Volcarona 75% chance, as opposed to 25% chance, in scoring an OHKO on the standard Ferrothorn without neither Life Orb or SR, so it wouldn't need to fear being Leech Seeded / Thunder Waved.

    HP Water is certainly good for handling those threats, but LO Hurricane dispatches all but Aerodactyl and Heatran (who isn't much of a problem for Rain teams anyways).
  13. Omicron

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    I personally like this set, but I don't know if its worth going through this whole hassle of QC and GP. Hurricane is the only move different than the current offensive Quiver Dance set onsite. Perhaps a slash of Hurricane would suffice and a maybe a small addition about how to use it, teammates, etc?
  14. Danilo

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    Unfortunately, I have to agree(although I personally would love to see this cool, innovative set stand alone on site). There isn't to much different about this set, than the standard set(other than the whole rain thing). I guess an extra paragraph could be added to the set comments of the original Volcarona analysis to talk about how well it works on rain teams.
  15. Seth Vilo

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    My opinion doesn't matter much probably, but I think this is deserving its own spot on site simply because of how differently it's played. It has a totally different list of teammates, benefits to rain teams, counters, and needed support than the standard Quiver Dance that is to act more as an independent sweeper than this is. Why make the first set on site some massive beast of an analysis with two or three additional paragraphs about Rain that the normal person wanting to use Volcarona would even care about? This way, people who want to use Volcarona in rain, or had no idea they could can see this set and just go to it instead of muttling through that first set till the reach the part they want.
  16. AccidentalGreed

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    I'm not in favor of any one side of the argument, but I want to point out that there's some analyses on site that do recommend rain-based variants of offensive sets. These analyses don't really include a dedicated Rain-based set since you can simply slap on moves that benefit rain teams and still be effective.

    Take SubCM Jirachi, for example, who plays similarly with any combination of two moves, Thunder and Water Pulse being one of them. Obviously, these moves require Drizzle support, but they're slashed in anyways because of little difference in playstyle (Jirachi just sets up and prevents Trick and status).

    For Volcarona, it's basically Offensive Quiver Dance with Hurricane for drizzle teams, which might prove troublesome if you're trying to justify its playstyle (in comparison to Offensive Quiver Dance's original function on Sun and weatherless teams).
  17. Pocket

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    I agree with Seth Vilo - this Volcarona plays differently enough from the standard offensive QDers to warrant its own set. AccidentalGreed makes a good point about SubCM Jirachi, but CM Jirachi in rain is virtually standard, whereas Volcarona in Rain is unorthodox. You can tell by the set descriptions that it is played differently than the offensive QD Volca - this set is tailor-made to fit into a Drizzle team and remove common threats to Rain teams. This set also opens up to a unique option in HP Water, which provides great coverage in exchange for the loss of a useful STAB to hit Steels.
  18. shrang

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    Mentioned all the stuff that need to be mentioned. Sub and ChestoRest are AC at the moment. Thanks for the approval Delta 2777.
  19. RaikouLover

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    HP Water is useless it's just for Heatran who can't do shit but run and hide from Rain teams and get walled by this very Volcarona.

    Fire Blast / Hurricane together are just more useful. Fire Blast OHKOs Ferrothorn, you can't deny that. And Fire Blast hits harder than HP Water in rain anyway against the super effective targets you need it for.
  20. Woodchuck

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    I think the fact that Volcarona plays a supporting role in rain teams rather than a "central sweeping" role is important and is the primary argument for actually putting this set onsite.
    That being said, that point should be emphasized as much as possible, though it looks like you've done a good job of it already.
  21. Fizz

    Fizz

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    Using this on my rain team. Won 9 of the last 10 matches.

    Huh.
  22. liberty32

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    hp water is valuable because with rain it ohko's the most common revenge killers to a +1 volc (landorus, terrakion), while hitting heatran before it can roar / toxic you.
  23. shrang

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    The only thing you're hitting of note is Heatran, which rain teams have absolutely no difficulty with. Here's the calcs that RL put up earlier:

    Of course, if Lando or Terrakion are Scarfed, you're losing anyway.
  24. Danilo

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    Sad to see that this set isn't getting more approval. I've used it a couple of times and I got destroyed. Most teams are simply not prepared for it. I've only played against this set once, and it was enough to promptly 4-0 my team
  25. Bloo

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    Great set. This plays a lot differently than the other Volcarona sets, so I definitely think it's worthy of a separate analysis. Although, I prefer Sub in the last slot over HP Water. I've used this and never found HP Water to be that useful. Personal preference I suppose.

    QC APPROVED (2/3)

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