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Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Rising_Dusk, Sep 18, 2010.

  1. Rising_Dusk

    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Programmer Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Dec 27, 2009

    Urugamosu is one of the new Pokemon in the 5th generation, and is found in a unique cave with just it lurking there. This thread is dedicated to the discussion of the Pokemon competitively, not whether it will or will not be banned. Keep that in mind.
    [B]#637 Urugamosu[/B]
    Typing: Bug / Fire
    Ability 1: 
       Flame Body
        30% chance to burn Pokemon using contact moves on this Pokemon.
    Ability 2: (Dream World)
        Boosts power of Bug-type moves 50% when at 1/3 HP or less.
    HP:  85
    Atk: 60
    Def: 60
    SpA: 135
    SpD: 105
    Spe: 100
    [B]Pre-Evo Moves:[/B]
    Lv20: Take Down
    Lv30: Nitro Charge
    Lv40: Bug Bite
    Lv50: Double-Edge
    Lv60: Flame Wheel
    Lv80: Amnesia
    Lv90: Thrash
    Lv100: Flare Blitz
    Nitro Charge: Fire Physical  PP: 20 / Power: 50 / Accuracy: 100
    May raise the user's Speed.
    [B]Level-Up Moves:[/B]
    Lv1: Ember
    Lv1: String Shot
    Lv1: Leech Life
    Lv1: Gust
    Lv10: Leech Life
    Lv20: Gust
    Lv30: Fire Spin
    Lv40: Whirlwind
    Lv50: Silver Wind
    Lv59: Butterfly Dance
    Lv60: Heat Wave
    Lv70: Bug Buzz
    Lv80: Rage Power
    Lv90: Wind Storm
    Lv100: Fire Dance
    Butterfly Dance: Bug Other PP: 20 / Power: --- / Accuracy: ---
    Raises Special Attack, Special Defense, and Speed by 1 stage.
    Rage Power: Bug Other PP: 20 / Power: --- / Accuracy: ---
    Whenever an opposing Pokémon uses an attack with a target of "single non-user" or "single opposing Pokémon" this round and there is a Pokemon at the position of this attack's user, it is directed to the Pokemon at the position of this attack's user instead of to any other non-user of that attack. Remains effective even if user is replaced. Priority level 3.
    Wind Storm: Flying Special PP: 10 / Power: 120 / Accuracy: 70
    Increases accuracy during weather. (30%)
    Fire Dance: Fire Special PP: 10 / Power: 80 / Accuracy: 100
    May increase user's Special Attack by 1 stage.
    [B]TM Moves:[/B]
    TM04 - Calm Mind
    TM06 - Toxic
    TM10 - Hidden Power
    TM11 - Sunny Day
    TM15 - Hyper Beam
    TM16 - Light Screen
    TM17 - Protect
    TM20 - Safeguard
    TM21 - Frustration
    TM22 - Solar Beam
    TM27 - Return
    TM29 - Psychic
    TM32 - Double Team
    TM35 - Flamethower
    TM38 - Fire Blast
    TM40 - Aerial Ace
    TM42 - Facade
    TM43 - Nitro Charge
    TM44 - Rest
    TM48 - Troll
    TM50 - Overheat
    TM59 - Complete Burn
    TM61 - Will-O-Wisp
    TM62 - Acrobat
    TM68 - Giga Impact
    TM76 - Bug Resistance
    TM84 - Poison Jab
    TM87 - Swagger
    TM89 - U-Turn
    TM90 - Substitute
    TM93 - Wild Bolt
    HM02 - Fly
    Troll: Normal Special PP: 15 / Power: 60 / Accuracy: 100
    Raises Base Power the more Pokemon you have with the attack.
    Complete Burn: Fire Special PP: 15 / Power: 30 / Accuracy: 100
    Removes the target's Berry.
    Acrobat: Flying Physical PP: 15 / Power: 55 / Accuracy: 100
    Allows the user to hit the opposite opponent in a Triple Battle.
    Bug Resistance: Bug Special PP: 20 / Power: 30 / Accuracy: 100
    May decrease opponent's Special Attack by 1 stage.
    Wild Bolt: Electric Physical PP: 15 / Power: 90 / Accuracy: 100
    Returns to user 1/4 of HP lost by opponent due to this attack.
    [B]Egg Moves:[/B]
    String Shot
    Zen Headbutt
    Morning Sun
    Magnet Rise
    This Pokemon is a bundle of surprises, and if you didn't think the same when you read the above, let me show you what I mean.

    • Access to Butterfly Dance
      This might be the greatest boosting move that exists in the game. With extraordinarily few Pokemon getting it and most of them sucking, that Urugamosu gets it is a godsend. It gives Urugamosu +1 SpA / +1 SpD / +1 Spe and almost single-handedly enables his sweep off the bat. Couple that boosting move with base 135 Special Attack and base 100 Speed and you've got a ferocious sweeper on your hands. Don't give it the chance to get +2 or you're pretty much screwed.
    • Amazing stat distribution and typing for a speedy special sweeper
      I mentioned it above and I'll say it again here: Urugamosu has an ideal distribution of stats for what it is attempting. 85/60/105 are legitimate defenses for a sweeper like this, all coupled with a resistance to both Bullet Punch and Mach Punch make for a great build. Add to this the fact that even bulky Water-type Pokemon won't want to switch in because Urugamosu is boosting its great Special Defense and can puncture them with its immensely powerful attacks and avoid being KOed in return and you'll see just how deadly Urugamosu is.
    • Perhaps the best sun sweeper that exists
      It may not have Chlorophyll, but this thing uses the sun like a fiend with Wind Storm, STAB Fire Blast, Solar Beam, and Butterfly Dance to boost its already impressive stats. If you are running a sun team, use this Pokemon. Trust me.
    • 4x Stealth Rock weakness
      It's not all sunshine for Urugamosu, though. That typing is perhaps its single greatest fault. Being 4x weak to Stealth Rock forces you to run Rapid Spin support or sacrifice Urugamosu's respectable bulk when attempting your sweep.
    I suspect that a dominant set will look like this:

    Urugamosu @ Life Orb
    Ability: Flame Body / Swarm
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
    ~ Butterfly Dance
    ~ Fire Blast / Fire Dance
    ~ Bug Buzz
    ~ Hidden Power Ground

    This is your typical powerhouse set. Fire/Bug coverage is respectable, but is totally walled by Heatran and other Fire-type Pokemon. For this reason, you're definitely going to want Hidden Power Ground in the last slot. Butterfly Dance makes this all possible and sets Urugamosu up or an immense sweep. After one use, Urugamosu hits 553 Special Attack, which makes those STAB Fire Blasts absurdly strong. If you're worried about accuracy, you can run Fire Dance, which has more PP than Fire Blast and a handy chance to boost Urugamosu's Special Attack even further when used. (Which is definitely appreciated) Ninetales is a phenomenal partner to this set, because a double-STAB Fire Blast is going to murder everything. Even better, though, is that the sun removes Urugamosu's Water-type weakness and Butterfly Dance boosts resistance to special attacks. What's even better than that, though, is that as a Fire-type Pokemon, Urugamosu doesn't have to worry about stray burns from Boiling Water! (Not that it really cared, but damage per turn is damage per turn)

    What do you guys think? What sets do you think look promising besides the one I've listed? Who will you guys partner him with? Who do you think will give him trouble?
  2. ginganinja

    ginganinja How do I live? How do I breathe?
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Apr 13, 2009
    It really needs Substitute so that priority does not murder it. SR is kinda bad but its not too hard to spin and I guess its not O.K offensive STABs. Speed is not too shabby either.
  3. Wishy


    May 18, 2006
    and from what we know, SR isn't as common as it was last gen, because it's not a TM anymore.

    but yeah- rock weak is REALLY hurtful, especially coupled with it being grounded (derp, the winged moth can't levitate without specifically being told to do so). really cool looking pokemon, and I was speculating WAY MANY MONTHS AGO how awesome it would be if a bug/fire moth poke based on the atlas moth would be... go figure :)

    good speed, and a spA stat on alakazam and poryZ levels (still good, but Chanderaa is #1 now lol :p). good stats and butterfly dance may actually help it be usable
  4. Elliot Gale

    Elliot Gale

    Dec 8, 2007
    After one butterfly dance, this thing is going to be shooting down entire teams with ease considering how amazing Bug/Fire is as offensive typing.

    So what if it's rock weak? It has only two other weaknesses and tears holes in everything.
  5. Sphyxius


    Sep 23, 2007
    Fighting/Bug/Steel/Grass resistances mean Scizor and technician Breloom will get eaten alive. Considering all the new bugs, steels, and fighters in this gen I think it'll actually wind up being pretty vital.

    This guy reminds me a lot of Heatran last gen; awesome design, unique typing, great stats, but with a lot of nitpicking about one particularly glaring weakness. I think it'll be a beast eventually.
  6. mtr


    Jan 31, 2009
    Stealth Rock will blast this thing bad. It's a pity since it looks kinda like Empoleon, but with better offensive (though way worse defensive) typing. I can see this being a good contender in UU kinda like Yanmega, but it's probably not gonna cut in OU.
  7. Not Scicky

    Not Scicky

    Jun 30, 2007
    Not gonna cut it in OU with better Speed and Special attack than Heatran?

    The only real problem here is Stealth Rocks. Assuming a metagame with it. Ulgamoth is hurting pretty bad, but I think it'd break UU easily. Assuming a metagame with it I think he'll be an offensive monster. Especially under the sun, where he can switch in with no worries on 4x resisted grass attacks...
  8. Blitzenith


    Mar 1, 2009
    Sorry, but as it is there are no Pokemon with 4x SR weak in OU. As cool as this guy is, I don't see him making waves any time soon as the common SRers this gen don't really care for their DW abilities much.
  9. Thorhammer


    Jun 18, 2008
    As is, there are no Pokemon in Gen 5 OU, period.
  10. Not Scicky

    Not Scicky

    Jun 30, 2007
    No, but there is one in Ubers, and he does just fine.

    Just because Stealth Rocks is still usable doesn't mean it's still going to be as viable.

    New pokemon that resist Stealth Rocks (Fully evolved):
    Doryuuzu, Nageki, Dageki, Gamageroge, Rohpushin, Warubiaru, Zuruzukin, Nattorei, Gigigear, Maggyo, Kojondo, Goruggo, Kirikizan, Birijion, Terakion, Kobaruon, Kerudio

    That's a handful of 17 pokemon. 1 of them being the mighty Doryuuzu, who also gets Shadow Claw and access to Rapid Spin if I'm not mistaken.
  11. Blitzenith


    Mar 1, 2009
    Regardless, my point still stands. The dominant SRers will still exist, unless you're willing to make arguments as to why they will not, which I am completely open to.
  12. Heracr055


    Jan 12, 2008
    I agree that this particular Pokemon is awesome, and I love the Bug type, so I like to see new representatives emerge. However, I think I have to disagree with it being "the next Heatran" due to the fact that, while a Ground type weakness was a huge problem, it didn't have to put up with the huge crippling by Stealth Rock. If Stealth Rock maintains a high profile in the Gen V metagame, teams will either have to be extremely reliant on their spinners to guarantee Butterfly Dance set up/sweepage, or else it will be made quick work of.
  13. Thorhammer


    Jun 18, 2008
    They will exist, but not necessarily alongside their powerful new abilities. For that reason and others, they may not stay dominant. We just don't know.
  14. TheMrBassdude


    Sep 19, 2010
    Without a Stealth Rock TM, I'm seeing this guy make some pretty big waves (although I wouldn't put it past Gamefreak to make it a Move Tutor move in Grey, or whatever they call the next one). Especially with all the new, super-powered offensive pokes they're releasing making it that much harder to set up SR without losing a 'Mon. I've always loved fire, and bug, so this guy is like my dream come true. The only thing I'm looking forward to more is Speed Boost Blaziken, and that's just because he's always been my favorite 'Mon, period
  15. Blitzenith


    Mar 1, 2009
    Humor me. For what reason would Aerodactyl, Azelf, Metagross, and Swampert stop wanting to lead with their SRs? I'm not being a jerk here. I'm genuinely inquiring. I'm wracking my brain for a reason to think of why these Pokemon would stop leading. The most obvious possibility would be because newer leads would force them out of action. But what could possibly threaten them?

    I really want to imagine Urugamosu as a viable Poke, awesome design and movepool and all, but I find it hard to picture.
  16. Scarf-Ditto


    Sep 19, 2010
    This 'mon seems to have a ton of potential. Getting past rock types should be pretty easy: throw HP Grass or Fighting into its arsenal and you're set. SR weakness is definitely an issue, though.
  17. Thee


    Apr 22, 2009
    I made some edits to my first post, capitalizing on new material I missed. Also deleted nonsensical and stupid intro. And as a side note, I thought this analysis was sloppy.. eh.

    I see SR still being used. And yes, I am unsure whether the item is one use or not. And whether or not (probably not) Urgamoth is usable as a lead-sweeper is currently unknown.

    Just learned that Urgamoth can't get Roost as a TM (correct me if I'm wrong). This means it has to stick with Morning Sun, which is much less viable. But hey, it has potential in Drought teams.

    (OU Speculation) After thinking about it some more, I found it was tough to imagine this guy as an OU. He has the stats, yes, but lacks any sort of capability to truly abuse them. The core of this argument resides in the fact that there are many pokemon with fantastic stats introduced, but, with so many of them, some would obviously be regulated for UU. For example, I imagine the Hydra to be overrated as a Latias with no pursuit weak--the problem is, normal attacks from the huge offensive prowess this meta makes the Hydra harder to effectively use. Combined with a crippling fighting weakness and no Roost, I am sure people will find the Hydra not as powerful as assumed. Even the Lamprey, with good stats, typing, movepool, and ability, who might've been OU 4th gen, might end up being UU this gen. And I can picture Urgamoth as a sturdy UU.
    Firstly, the stat up move (Pokejungle translated it as Butterfly Dance, I saw some translate it as Butterfly Wing, so I won't name it yet) is just not threatening enough at first. Priority absolutely ruins Urgamoth. No matter how much it stats up, an aqua jet or extremespeed will promptly deal with it. Fortunately for Urgamoth, it resists Bullet Punch and Mach Punch. This, however, does not make up for the fact that it is weak to water, neutral to earth, weak to rock and I think something else. Looking at the major threats in this gen and considering how to counter them, I see the Kibago evo being dominant. Have huge stats plus taunt means very few things can shut it down. This makes me feel that Donphan would increase in popularity. And, if Rain teams are popular, Gastrodon with Storm Drain, assuming Storm Drain works like Lightning Rod, will probably replace Swampert. And if Shaandera is OU, then Blissey has to carry Healing Wish as so not to be swept by +6.
    (Back on topic)
    So where does Urgamoth fall into this? I...don't see much of a place for it. While practicing teams (looking at movepools, which are available), I tried making an Urgamoth team. I ended up replacing with Shaandera because that is so mcuh better, but then I even sacked Shaandera in an attempt to make a defensive team that covers offensive threat. My point is, I don't think it is easy to fit Urgamoth onto a team. He does not compliment many things with his typing, and is very centralized to setting up and special sweeping. It does have a special niche with his stat up move, but that is about it. Unlike the D/P dancers, pokemon can actually take a hit from Urgamoth and take it out (I think). Right now, there is a lot unknown about the metagame and how Urgamoth would affect it, and what I stated before were merely my hypotheses. The truth is, Urgamoth has a lot of potential to fly... or be squished to death by rocks. But I think it will take some time for Urgamoth to get recognition, as Onokonosu and Shaandera and Rain Dance will no doubt take the spotlight.
  18. Jimera0

    Jimera0 You don't understand, Edgar is the one in the hole!
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 24, 2010
    Everyone who says this guy is going to stay out of OU is doing so because of SR, but we just don't know how prominent that's going to be this generation. The fact that SR is no longer a TM and the unknowns attached to dream abilities and such puts its future into question, not to mention the plethora of new pokemon resistant to it.

    Ultimately, it really does come down to that. If stealth rock gets used as much as in this gen, I bet this poor moth ends up BL and rarely used (I have a hard time believing that it wouldn't break UU, stealth rock weakness or not). If SR doesn't see as much use, then this moth is going to be OU for sure, though we must remember the SR popularity is not a "it's used or it isn't" sort of thing... it's a matter of degrees.

    Ultimately, only time will tell.
  19. DDRMaster


    Jun 26, 2008
    Even if this thing is dual weak to SR, I have a feeling you'll only have to bring it in once, set up Butterfly Dance, and sweep. I haven't run calcs but even at 50% health, it can probably survive a CB Scizor/Breloom's Bullet/Mach Punch and end up in Swarm Range.

    The best partner for this Pokemon (besides Rapid Spinners) is probably Vaporeon, since you can easily pass this thing a Wish on a Grass attack and it will be back to full health.

    In conclusion, I don't think this will become as good a DD Salamence but it can still probably sweep with a little support.
  20. Thee


    Apr 22, 2009
    Considering its pitiful attack stat, I also agree that it will not be a successful mixed sweeper.
  21. Stellar

    is a Live Chat Contributoris an Administratoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    Jan 3, 2007
    I have merged the two threads. jumpluff requested that the OP be rewritten and Rising Dusk did so.
  22. Rising_Dusk

    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Programmer Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Dec 27, 2009
    Thanks a ton for that!
    Your analysis is strong, but you've got to realize that this thing hits harder than Choice Specs Heatran after a single Butterfly Dance. Did I mention that it also is more specially bulky and faster by leaps and bounds? With one turn setup, it becomes an amazing sweeper, and it definitely gets opportunities to setup with a neutrality to Ground and a 4x resistance to Grass. If you manage to get this out in the sun too, which is likely considering that Ninetales got Drought, it will utterly destroy things.

    I'm pretty sure that it will fare well at the very least in whatever metagame Gen V churns out.
  23. SelkiesFTW


    May 3, 2010
    This poke is going to be a real sweeper. Gigagear is also another poke who gets a +3 stat rise.
  24. jchen


    Jul 1, 2010
    Adamant CB Scizor bullet punch/Adamant CB Breloom mach punch: 39.2%-46.3% you die if you have life orb, otherwise, fine
    Jolly Lucario extremespeed: 49.2% minimum.
    Dragonite ES:not even worth running a calc.

    if you could keep rocks off the field this could be a monster, since no priority user does more than 60ishmax.
  25. cjs177


    Apr 16, 2007
    Ninjask is OU, also If Ho-oh can stay in Ubers with SR around this pokemon can become OU if it proves out to work well in the metagame

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