1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Volcarona

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Rising_Dusk, Sep 18, 2010.

  1. shofly12

    shofly12

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    160
    I wouldn't say Bug+Flying gives great coverage. Since notably, steel types still resist the heck out of you, which is why fire blast is important. Also, its nice to turn sun teams on themselves with a boosted Fire Blast.
  2. Immoral Wombat

    Immoral Wombat

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2010
    Messages:
    117
    In theory, yes, steel types resist Bug+Flying. In practice, only Skarmory and Heatran do, while Bug+Fire is resisted by Jellicent, Keldeo, Tentacruel, Gyarados, Dragonite, Salamence, Heatran, Infernape and Terrakion.

    With Bug+Flying over Bug+Fire(+Grass), Ferrothorn, Forretress, Metagross and Bronzong will still be beaten. You only lose coverage over Skarmory and Jirachi.

    Rain is everywhere, so Fire Blast is comparable in power to a unSTABed base 90 move. Leaving two moveslots open for Quiver Dance and Roost/Substitute greatly eases setting up with Volcarona. Concluding; unless you run a sun team yourself, strongly consider Bug+Flying.
  3. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Doubles Co-Lead

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,580
    Bug + Flying + Fire > Bug + Flying. Hurricane is a staple on Rain Volcarona; Fire Blast doesn't replace it.
  4. Immoral Wombat

    Immoral Wombat

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2010
    Messages:
    117
    I'd argue that Bug + Flying + Roost/Substitute > Bug + Flying + Fire.
    You get much more longetivety, or get to set up against status/hazing, both resulting in easier and more boosts.

    What else is Fire Blast good for, other than Jirachi and Skarmory? You get to kill the other steels (except Heatran) faster, but with Roost you can boost easier/more and kill them anyway.
  5. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    2,987
    If you want to be walled by Skarmory by all means be my guest.
  6. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast I'm John Morgan of Morgan and Morgan
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a SPL Winner
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,349
    Skarmory will Whirlwind you out. Jirachi can take the time to paralyze you and then flinch the hell out of you with Iron Head. Magnezone laughs at your attacks and SubCharges you. If you don't have enough boosts, Ferrothorn either Leech Seeds or paralyzes you. Moving out of strictly OU Pokemon, Empoleon destroys you with Rain-boosted STAB attacks, sometimes wit Swords Dance. Klinklang sets up on you and hits you with Wild Charge or Return. Aggron takes a +1 Bug Buzz and destroys you with Rock STAB.

    Non-Steel types: Zapdos, Thundurus-T, Rotom, Rotom-H, Rotom-S, Emolga, Archeops, Magcargo and Aerodactyl resist Bug+Flying.

    You give up too much without Fire Blast.
  7. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2008
    Messages:
    1,968
    Doesn't make much sense to list the Fire- and Rock-types that resist Bug+Flying+Fire as well.
  8. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Doubles Co-Lead

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,580
    Without Fire Blast, Rain Volcarona is forced to use Substitute. Otherwise, it threatens to be T-Waved / Leeched by daring Ferrothorns that decides to stay in. It's counter-productive, if Volcarona cannot set up on the one thing it's supposed to set up.

    Changing the subject to Volcarona on non-weather teams - what do you think of Will-O-Wisp? With Wisp, Volcarona becomes more than just a late-game sweeper, but it can also support the team by luring in physical Sweepers like Terrakion, Dragonite, and Gyarados, and burn them. Burning Water-types like Politoed, Jellicent, and Gastrodon would make it even quicker to checkmate them with a Volcarona sweep later on. I guess it depends on how you play, but I like to inject Volcarona early and mid-game to force plays on the opponent, so being able to burn Pokemon would potentially make Volcarona more useful. Heatran is a problem, but all Volcarona without HP Ground are weak to it anyways. Volcarona's access to Giga Drain somewhat makes Wisp half as appealing, since the former can heavily damage Water-types, but Wisp is nonetheless a good option against any non-Fire types.
  9. alphatron

    alphatron Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,443
    So something like Wisp, quiver dance, bug buzz/giga drain, and fire blast?

    I'll test it out. Rather than wall volcorona, people seem to outright switch in an immediate counter or wall against it. I have had some success using will o wisp on offensive arcanine and SR lead infernape before, so I might give it a shot. The lack of a real third attack is hurtful though.
  10. bluemon

    bluemon

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,519
    I actually made a joke specially defensive set and it actually did pretty well. I used it with amoongbro.

    Volcarona @ leftovers
    248 hp / 8 def / 252 SDef
    Ability: flame body
    Nature: Calm
    -roost
    -will-o-wisp
    -fiery dance
    -bug buzz / struggle bug / whirlwind

    This set was surprisingly viable.
    Roost is a great move for recovery, and it's ability and willowisp allows it to switch in on fighting moves. Fiery dance insures that volcarona won't be a set up fodder as a +1 fiery dance still hurts with no investments. The best thing I've found was struggle bug, which allowed volcarona to weaken special attacker switch ins and to strengthen the ability for amoongbro to switch in on special attackers.

    You can run extra speed to outspeed jirachi and whatnot

    EDIT: whirlwind is also a phenomenal move for those set up sweepers

    EDIT 2: just forgot to mention that stealth rock is a bitch for a defensive mon
  11. Ricky Horror

    Ricky Horror

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2012
    Messages:
    254
    Edit 2. Which is why Volcarona is a joke of a defensive mon. You won't be allowed to switch so lightly and whirlwind just ups the factor of bringing in something that will check/counter it, yet again forcin you to switch.
  12. bluemon

    bluemon

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,519
    But if you get rid of stealth rocks, it's a pretty good special wall. It's like articuno
  13. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Doubles Co-Lead

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,580
    What is "ideal" for the third attack? I guess it depends on the team. I've used HP Rock on my weatherless team. It provides super-effective coverage against Salamence, Dragonite, Gyrados, Thundurus (in rain), and Tornadus (in rain). HP Rock also 2HKOs offensive Heatran variants after 2~3 QDs. However, Volcarona is hopeless against specially-defensive Heatran and Terrakion (especially in sand). This is primarily the reason why I've been playing around with the idea of Will-O-Wisp idea, since it can cripple pretty much all Volcarona switch-ins not named Heatran. This is probably why Volcarona should be used in Sun teams and just blow up on opponent's team's face.

    You definitely want Bug Buzz if you want Volcarona to bypass Tyranitar.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)