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Voltorb (Analysis)'

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by eric the espeon, Oct 28, 2009.

  1. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    LCF analysis by Heysup (and me before that, SDS before that), going through and editing. Voltorb's only competitive move from HG/SS was Magic Coat, not sure if its quite good enough to give a moveslot but probably OO. Kinda nice against Meowth, not that helpful against any other common lead.

    To do:
    Check the rest of the sets
    Add Team Options paragraphs
    Add team Options section

    comments most helpful for sections I have already been through.
    -------------------

    [SET]
    name: LeadOrb
    move 1: Thunderbolt
    move 2: Hidden Power Ice / Taunt
    move 3: Explosion
    move 4: Sucker Punch / Protect
    item: Focus Sash
    ability: Static
    nature: Hasty
    evs: 36 HP / 40 Atk / 236 SpA / 196 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Voltorb is very good at disrupting popular leads with its combination of high speed and several important attacks. Protect and Sucker Punch beat the ever common Fake Out Meowth and Aipom leads, either by avoiding their Fake Out or breaking their Sash. Hidden Power Ice is used for near perfect "BoltBeam" coverage, and gives you a chance against Gligar and Diglett leads (though in order to beat Diglett, Sucker Punch must be used), but Phanpy will barely be scratched by it. Taunt stops weather and Stealth Rock leads from fulfilling their objective, but watch out as many stealth Rock leads carry Earthquake. Defensively weak (and Water-type) leads get Thunderbolted to oblivion from Voltorb's decent Special Attack stat. Finally, when Voltorb's usefulness comes to an end, Explosion is devastatingly powerful even from only 10 Attack.</p>

    <p>Protect seems like the best option against Meowth as Meowth's Fake Out will do far more damage than Voltorb's Sucker Punch. However, Thunderbolt will never OHKO Meowth (and by extension the slightly more bulky Glameow) on its own, so with Protect Voltorb will be hit by either one of Meowth's stronger attacks, Hypnosis, or Meowth will choose to take the Thunderbolt and U-turn out. Sucker Punch will break Meowth's Focus Sash first turn and force Meowth to switch or die next turn. The same goes for Glameow, although you have to watch out for it using a priority move of its own. While Hidden Power Ice and Sucker Punch give Voltorb a chance against Diglett, Taunt can shut down the ever-common Trick Room, Sunny Day, Rain Dance, and Stealth Rock leads. It depends whether you want to beat Diglett (and Gligar) or the previously mentioned leads that can only be shut down by Taunt.</p>

    <p>Lead Voltorb functions best with Pokemon who can switch comfortably into the Ground-type leads, which it has the most problems with. Aqua Tail Gligar can switch into Onix, Hippopotas and even choiced Machop without any problem, though you do allow Stealth Rock to go up in two of those cases. Having a Pokemon that can take advantage of a taunted Bronzor is a big plus if you run Taunt. Really Voltorb needs little support to work well as it is a supporter itself. It can block the opponent's set up, fry Water-types and hopefully blow up on a key member of the opponent's team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Rain Dance
    move 1: Rain Dance
    move 2: Thunder
    move 3: Explosion
    move 4: Taunt / Light Screen / Hidden Power Ice
    item: Damp Rock
    ability: Static
    nature: Hasty
    evs: 36 HP / 40 Atk / 236 SpA / 196 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Voltorb is in the highest unboosted Speed group, gets one of the most threatening setup moves in Rain Dance, Explosion, Thunder which is made far more useful by the rain, and has enough bulk to avoid being OHKOed by most opponents. All in all, it makes a great lead for a rain team, or a setup Pokemon for later in the game. Once rain is up Voltorb can attack directly with its powerful STAB Thunder, doing huge damage to anything that does not resist it with a nice chance to paralyze, explode on something too bulky to OHKO with your other moves for a KO and free switch to a Swift Swim sweeper. Taunt stops opponents who try to set up on the same turn as you, which is especially important against Trick Room teams as they give most rain teams trouble. Light Screen is an option to help your rain abusing sweepers last longer, and gives you something useful to do with free turns, for example against Protect users trying to stall out the rain. Hidden Power Ice can be used over Taunt or Light Screen to hit Gligar and Diglett, or HP Fire for Snover, however a fast Taunt is almost too much to pass up because of how badly Rain Dance teams are countered by Trick Room teams.</p>

    <p>Rain Dance Voltorb is mostly a support Pokemon, and therefore needs little support of its own. However, having Pokemon that can safely switch into an Earthquake from one of the many Ground-type leads is handy. Mantyke works especially well as it threatens them with STAB Water moves and can effectively abuse rain if Voltorb sets it up. Rain teams in general are very happy to be rid of Snover, but an opponent who knows they are facing a rain team will do everything in their power to keep it alive. Wynaut traps it, can avoid being 2HKOed by most Snover, and can use Counter or Mirror Coat to remove Snover.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Substitute + Charge Beam
    move 1: Thunderbolt
    move 2: Hidden Power Ice
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Charge Beam
    item: Petaya Berry / Salac Berry
    ability: Static
    nature: Timid
    evs: 36 HP / 40 Def / 236 SpA / 196 Spe
    I don't have enough experience with this set, and will be working on it with someone who does.
    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Voltorb likes having a stat-boosting move because of its mediocre Special Attack stat, and with its great Speed, setting up is easy. Since Voltorb outpaces almost the entire Little Cup metagame, it will draw out Pokemon who use Sucker Punch to KO it. A Pokemon who uses Sucker Punch basically gives Voltorb a free Substitute, allowing Voltorb to easily set up a couple Charge Beam boosts. However, once Voltorb activates its Berry, it is then incredibly weak to priority attackers, so make sure they are removed before you attempt to sweep.</p>

    <p>The strategy is quite simple, and it starts by using Substitute. Substitute will scout your opponent's switch-in, allowing you to judge what to do next. If Voltorb can KO the Pokemon with Charge Beam, then do not pass up the opportunity to get a Special Attack boost. If Voltorb can KO the Pokemon with a +2 Thunderbolt, use Charge Beam then Substitute down to Petaya Berry range and KO the Pokemon. Proceed to sweep your opponent's team with your boosted Thunderbolts and Hidden Power Ice for type coverage. If you would like, you can use a Salac Berry instead of a Petaya Berry to outspeed every Choice Scarf user Little Cup, barring Elekid and Diglett, who beat you anyway with priority. Keep in mind that Voltorb does not have the highest Special Attack around, and can definitely use the extra kick that the Petaya Berry offers.</p>


    [Other Options]

    <p>Both Choice Scarf and Choice Specs can be used, but there are several threatening and common Ground-types who would just love the free turn a Voltorb locked into Electric attacks provides. With Choice Scarf Voltorb can outpace almost every Pokemon in Little Cup, but with Voltorb's merely average Special Attack, it lacks the raw power to threaten many Pokemon. Choice Specs gives a welcome boost to Special Attack, however losing the ability to switch moves is a heavy price to pay. Life Orb is another viable item, it provides a significant boost in power for Voltorb's Special Attacks and Explosion without locking you into a move. However, in exchange it loses the extra life granted by Focus Sash or the three extra turns of rain that Damp Rock gives.</p>

    <p>Magnet Rise and Thunder Wave are decent moves, but Voltorb does not have room on its movesets to justify using them. Magnet Rise would help against Ground-type leads since you outspeed all of them, and without their STAB moves will take several turns to KO you. Thunder Wave could be used to slow down incoming Pokemon, but Voltorb will rarely benefit from this itself as it is one of the the fastest Pokemon in Little Cup.</p>

    <p>Hidden Power Ice can be replaced by Hidden Power Grass or Ground, as they both hit Pokemon such as Chinchou for super effective damage. Hidden Power Ground hits Magnemite, while Hidden Power Grass will hit Pokemon such as Wooper for an easy OHKO. On the Rain Dance set Hidden Power Water is viable; it hits most targets harder when rain is up, but loses the invaluable OHKO on Gligar.</p>

    [EVs]

    <p>Voltorb will always want to max Speed and Special Attack. To do this it needs 196 EVs and 236 EVs respectively. Once that's done, you can get an extra point in both Attack and HP by investing 36 EVs in each.</p>
    Checked to here
    <p>When using Hidden Power Ice, all you need to do is add an extra 4 EVs to Attack. However, for Hidden Power Grass you will lose a point in HP as Voltorb has very few EVs to spare. The spread with Hidden Power Grass looks like this: 36 Atk / 240 SpA / 196 Spe.</p>

    [Opinion]

    <p>Anything that occupies the literally highest speed tier in any metagame deserves a look, and Voltorb has the supportive abilities to back it up. Rain Dance support is often very useful in Little Cup with so many viable sweepers, and Voltorb provides it quite easily. With Sucker Punch, Voltorb can avoid being revenge killed, and in Little Cup Explosion is an absurdly good attack packed by few fast Pokemon. Voltorb is an amazing lead, and a great way to support a team, while always going out with a bang.</p>

    <p>With the rising popularity of Pokemon such as Meowth and Aipom, Voltorb has become one of the most efficient leads in the metagame. However, this chain of events has lead to an increase in basic priority leads, such as Houndour and Diglett, who can deal with Voltorb and Meowth alike. Although, Voltorb can be adapted to handle these Pokemon too though, with its Sucker Punch set. Voltorb is definitely one of the more reliable choices as a lead, but it can also unexpectedly sweep with the Charge Beam set. With so many unexpected options to take advantage of, Voltorb is one of the top tier Little Cup Pokemon.</p>

    [Counters]

    <p>Diglett can come in safely on Thunderbolt, Thunder, and Thunder Wave but has big problems with a super effective Hidden Power and ties in Speed with Voltorb. Bronzor can take any of Voltorb's attacks and KO it with Earthquake. Priority can put a massive dent in it, and can preempt an Explosion after Focus Sash breaks. Gligar is immune to Electric, and Thunder Wave, doesn't especially mind being Taunted, and OHKOs handily with STAB Earthquake, though Hidden Power Ice will destroy it. Munchlax and Chinchou both counter Voltorb pretty well, but Voltorb can and will explode on those two. Rock/Ground-types such as Rhyhorn and Geodude have high Defense, resist Explosion, and are immune to Thunderbolt and Thunder Wave, but can't take a super effective Hidden Power unless a Sandstorm is in effect. Magnemite can easily counter any Voltorb (bar Hidden Power Ground variants) because of its resistances to Thunderbolt, Hidden Power Ice/Grass, Explosion, and Sucker Punch. However Magnemite cannot really do much in return if it doesn't carry Hidden Power Ground.</p>

    <p>The best revenge killers are those who have a high (Special) Attack stat, and carry a Choice Scarf. Pokemon such as Gible can easily knock out Voltorb with a STAB Earthquake after reaching 21 Speed with a Choice Scarf, allowing it to outpace Voltorb by 1 Speed point. Diglett can use a Choice Scarf to outpace, trap, and KO Voltorb quite reliably. Choice Scarf variants of Abra, Gastly, and Misdreavus don't make good counters because of the possibility of Sucker Punch.</p>
  2. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    I think mixed sweeper should definitely be removed, along with Choice Specs. They are no longer viable in any way in the current metagame.

    However I do think we should keep Sub + Charge Beam. It's really underrated.

    Bronzor needs to be added to TO of pretty much all lead sets due to Phanpy.
  3. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight Well-shuffled and flush
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    I've used Hidden Power Water on the Rain Dance Voltorb to decent effect. In Rain it still slaughters Diglett and Gligar, while also giving you a way to dispatch Houndour. Since Hippopotas comes in on a switch you can hit it much harder with HP Water too. Gligar might carry Yache Berry, but it almost never carries Passho Berry. Hidden Power Ice is only more useful against Gligar generally, on the Rain Dance set, boosting Hidden Power lets it cover what it ordinarily covers plus a huge swath of threats.

    It's OO material at the very least.
  4. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    I'm in agreement with removing Specs, it can go in OO. The mixed set, I'm not sure about. It would be good to have a general sweep/revenge/explode set that is not focused on leading, maybe if Sub becomes the main option over SP, but then it looks quite like the SubCharge set as well as looking somewhat like the lead set, even if it is played very differentially from both and has different slashes and item.

    Its not a set I have used, so I'll go with what you say and keep the comments roughly the same.

    mhm, I'll mention that having something that can switch into Phan safely helps a lot, and Bronzor works very well.

    Sounds good, I'll run some calcs and probably add it in.
  5. macle

    macle &macle: I literally bring frogs into the bedroom
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    In the rain dance set, you might want to mention hp grass to hit the more common rock and ground leads like omanyte, kabuto, etc. Also mention taunting pokes trying to set sunny day since all pokemon that can set it up are slower and possibly note the pokemon which you should taunt first and then set up rain like bronzor.
  6. little gk

    little gk <Birkal> I will quit everything I do on smogon
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    I'm definitely with HYU on removing the specs set, it really sucks in this meta. One newer suggestion i have though, is merging the lead and rain dance sets, I've hardly seen any lead Voltorb who use the lead set, but those that do lead use the rain dance set.
  7. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    I have seen some actually. But anyway they are played much differently, so I disagree with merging them.
  8. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    Made a bit of progress, decided against making HP Water the main option as it misses out on OHKOing Gligar under rain. HP Grass is listed in OO, and is not a great option when you have HP Water/Ice available to that set. Removed agreed sets, added Specs to OO, may add mixed to OO. Lead and Rain are staying separate, they have different moves/items and play differentially.
  9. Bologo

    Bologo Have fun with birds and bees.
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    LeadOrb

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    Rain Dance

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    Substitute + Charge Beam

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    Other Options

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    EVs

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    Opinion

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    Counters

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    I mostly just shortened a couple of things, put in commas, removed commas, and split up certain sentences. You might want to try not making sentences super-long because run-on sentences are a pain to read.

    Other than that, it's an alright write-up, I can't really comment on content since I don't play LC (though it sounds fun).
  10. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    Added that all in (and a couple of others I spotted), thanks. It's not up to standard yet, I still need to go over it a few more times and redo several sections of the original writing.
  11. Xia

    Xia aka Lone Gansel
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    eric, you seem to still be miissing one of the edits Bologo made.

    Also, you may want to change the mention of "Sash" to the full "Focus Sash" to be more proper. Really, though, it's up to you.
  12. Brammi

    Brammi

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    I have used a different leadorb to good effect. It is also on a RD team. Instead of going for HP I used Protect/RD/Explosion/Thunder. Protecting on the first turn negates the need for taunt to deal with Sunny Dayers. It is assured of RDing due to its speed and can then lay down some serious damage with one of the two other moves. If it explodes it opens a clean entry for a frail rain sweeper. I choose to invest more into Att than SpAtt so that Explosion is all that more venomous. Just a suggestion as an alternate lead.
  13. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

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    Just a small note on the EV's of Sub Voltorb: If you have 21 HP, your Berry will only activate upon the fourth Sub, leaving you at 1 HP as opposed to after 3 Subs. I dunno if the extra sub would be worth it though...
  14. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
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    Was going to add this to the GP queue per request of Dubs, but this needs some reshuffling of the content and potentially some rewriting. Let me know when it's updated and I'll queue it up.
  15. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
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    This is being taken over by ShinyAzelf here. Moved to L&O.

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