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VoltTurn; Comeback

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by NMx13, Sep 6, 2012.

  1. NMx13

    NMx13

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2011
    Messages:
    179
    [​IMG]



    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]



    Hello there. I have been playing competitive Pokemon almost 6 years and yes, it is high time to make RMT.
    I made this team before BW2 came out. My team worked really well at that time. After all new metagame changes..
    ...as you can guess, I had to rebuild my team and there is result! Oh right, I love bulky offense teams!
    So far team has been going very well. The name of team is "VoltTurn; Comeback!", because this team can turn tables
    and this is my 2nd VoltTurn team. Feel free to rate/comment :)

    Team Building Process
    Team building... (open)

    [​IMG]
    • Starmie
      I wanted fast and good Pokemon overall, Starmie is great choice! :)


    [​IMG][​IMG]
    • Scizor
      I’m not building my team around Starmie, but however Scizor has nice sygnergy.
      STAB Bullet Punch (priority) and STAB U-turn are always useful moves.


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    • Heatran and Celebi
      My FWG core (Heatran, Starmie and Celebi). Heatran is to get Stealth Rocks. Celebi is twave support.
      Heatran works against Sun/Hail teams and Celebi against Sand/Rain teams.


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    • Dragonite
      Set Up and Sweep!? Somewhat bulky thanks to Multiscale and typing.
      SR weakness is big pain in ass without Rapid Spin. I have Starmie… whatever.


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    • Terrakion
      Every team needs fighting type and there is many good choices. I decided to use Terrakion.
      Good revenge killer, especially with Choice Scarf also I’m scared of Volcarona and Salamence.


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG]
    • Landorus-T and Rotom-W
      Heatran didn’t perform very well due to Drizzle spam and Celebi doesn’t fit in.
      Landorus-T has awesome typing and intimidate. Landorus-T got SR from BW2 move tutor.
      Rotom-W is big help against common Rain teams and performs big role in my VoltTurn core.


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    • Jirachi
      I don’t want to have two Pokemon 4x weak to Ice. Jirachi is new paralysis support
      and it has ability to paralyze ground types and Volt Absorbers. Jirachi is useful against Therians and dragons.


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    • Latios
      Latios outclasses Starmie. Specs Latios is monster.




    Team Details

    [a]Latios[/a]
    [​IMG]
    Latios @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Surf
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Psyshock


    Latios is an awesome Pokemon! Really good movepool allows it to force many switches.
    Draco Meteor is strong STAB and even after SAtk drop it is better than Dragon Pulse.
    Surf is mainly for Heatran who would wall this set. HP Fire is for Scizor, Ferrothorn and Forretress.
    Psyshock is for Fighting types that are causing troubles to this team. Also Psyshock does ~65% to Blissey.
    I’m using Choice Specs, because of power. I kinda want use Starmie, but indeed Latios is stronger.
    Maybe Specs Starmie for the lulz?

    Some Calcs:
    Blissey (OU Support) Psyshock 59.5 - 70.09%
    Tyranitar (OU Specially Defensive) Draco Meteor 60.89 - 72.02%
    Heatran (OU Specially Defensive) Surf 55.58 - 65.97%

    [a]Scizor[/a]
    [​IMG]
    Scizor @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef / 8 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bullet Punch
    - U-turn
    - Superpower
    - Pursuit

    CSS, Common Standard Scizor (not conter strike source :p). It does use the most common move set, because of its small movepool.
    Still it has some great moves and excellent typing. STAB and Technician-boosted priority move, Bullet Punch, is great lifesaver.
    U-turn is second STAB move, which is for scouting also it has ability to gain momentum through switches.
    Superpower can be used against Ferrothorn, Scizor or even Heatran and Magnezone if they try to switch in safely.
    8 Speed EVs to outspeed opponent’s Scizor. Pursuit helps removing Psychic (and rare Ghost) types.​

    [a]Landorus-T[/a]
    [​IMG]
    Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 4 HP / 140 Atk / 112 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
    - Earthquake
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - U-turn
    - Stealth Rock

    My Stealth Rock lure set, SR is my hazards and it is definitely useful, because VoltTurn forces so many switches.
    STAB Earthquake one of best moves, although the metagame is full of Levitate users. HP Ice is for Landorus, Gliscor who would switch in safely.
    HP Ice *OHKOes them after SR damage (*small chance to fail OHKO). U-turn is for scouting also if Lati@s tries switch in to earthquake, it is going to get hurt.
    As said 112 SpA EVs are for HP Ice. Max neutral Speed allows Landorus-T to outspeed base 90 with max Speed investment.​

    [a]Rotom-W[/a]
    [​IMG]
    Rotom-Wash @ Chesto Berry
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Volt Switch
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Rest​

    Hydro Pump, Rotom-W doesn’t have any other Water-type moves. Anyway Hydro Pump is strong STAB.
    Volt Switch is big help against Rain teams or any team in general. Rotom-W is big part of VoltTurn core.
    Will-O-Wisp is my status move, burning annoying sweepers. For last slot, I had Pain Split, but I never used it.
    I decided to use Rest and it seems to be really good. I’m not sure if lefties is better than ChestoRest.
    I might use Lanturn over Rotom-W because of Volt Absorb. I'm running it with 252 HP and 252 SDef EVs.​

    [a]Terrakion[/a]
    [​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Earthquake​

    Check for Scarfed Pokemons and set up users. Close Combat is one of best Physical moves.
    I have Stone Edge because it is much better than Rock Slide and Rock Slide misses much as SE.
    I'm using X-Scissor instead of Rock Slide because it is kinda useless to have two rock type moves.
    Earthquake is for Jirachi and Toxicroak. I have Jolly nature, because it is needed on Scarf Terrakion.
    Scarf Terrakion outspeed 100 base scarf users such as Salamence, Volcarona, Genesect etc.
    Actually I might switch roles of Terrakion and Landorus, in other words… LO Terrakion and Scarf Landorus.​

    [a]Jirachi[/a]
    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 220 SDef / 36 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Iron Head
    - Body Slam
    - U-turn
    - Wish​

    Awesome paralysis and Wish support. Body Slam can paralyze common Ground-types and Volt Absorbers.
    Iron Head is just for flinch, slowly killing foes; also every time I get flinch, it gets +6.5 % HP (Lefties).
    Wish is to support team and Jirachi itself. I'm using U-turn instead of Psyshock, because I have Psyshock on Latios.
    Also U-turn fits well to BoltTurn team. Excellent choice of Pokemon against Therians and Dragons.



    Threatlist
    Show Hide

    Standard OU Offensive Threats

    [​IMG] Jirachi:

    • Substitute + Calm Mind – Landorus,-T when Jira doesn’t have substitute up. (I'm aware some Jira’s carry Water Pulse.)

    [​IMG] Gengar:

    • Substitute + Disable - Substitute is one of best moves and it is more deadly with Disable.

    [​IMG] Hydreigon:

    • Substitute – Substitute is annoying... but I have Jirachi and it does pretty well.

    [​IMG] Toxicroak:

    • Swords Dance – I have Terrakion (EQ) and Jirachi.

    [​IMG] Lucario:

    • Swords Dance – I have Landorus-T and Terrakion.


    [​IMG] Scrafty:

    • Dragon Dance – Can sweep my whole team bar Terrakion (Scizor). Not very common.

    [​IMG] Azelf:

    • Nasty Plot – see^



    Standard OU Defensive Threats

    [​IMG] Gastrodon:

    • Tank – Latios Specs DM


    Importable
    …for PO/PS (open)

    Code:
      Latios (M) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Surf
    - Hidden Power [Dark]
    - Psyshock
    
    Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef / 8 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bullet Punch
    - U-turn
    - Superpower
    - Pursuit
    
    Landorus-T (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 108 HP / 144 Atk / 112 SAtk / 144 Spd
    Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
    - Earthquake
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - U-turn
    - Stealth Rock
    
    Rotom-W @ Chesto Berry
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Volt Switch
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Rest
    
    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Close Combat
    - Rock Slide
    - X-Scissor
    - Earthquake
    
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 220 SDef / 36 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Iron Head
    - Body Slam
    - U-turn
    - Wish


    Special Thanks to Sandshrewz!
  2. Asek

    Asek A heart of stone, a smoking gun
    is a Team Rater Alumnus
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    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2012
    Messages:
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    Hey,

    Cool team man, Volt-Turn is a really effective strategy right now. I thought that a real problem for your team to face would be standard sun teams, with Venusaur at +2 cleanly running through your team with ease. Once Terrakion is down, Volcarona can also set up and smash you around with his powerful STAB's. As you said also, Rain offense can really annoy your team, with the powerful Thunderbolt's and Hydro Pump's being thrown around everywhere.

    First off, replacing Rotom-W with Lanturn isn't the best idea. There is a far better fix within your team that can help it solidly beat down rain offense. This pokemon has both a water and an Electric immunity. Looking at your Starmie, it doesn't really provide much for the team. Most starmie are used to rapid spin, and since your team doesn't require that support, Starmie isn't all that nessecary here. Instead, you should test Choice Specs Gastrodon > Starmie on your team. Gastrodon's handy abilty lets you nab a special attack boost once its hit by a water attack, and from there if its raining his water STAB hits like an absolute truck, and he is very hard to switch into. He can still be the really hard hitting water type that Starmie was, but his better bulk and immunities serve your team far better. Although it doesn't solve your Venuaur problem, it is admirable at everything else. The water immunity could really come in handy so you can beat powerful hydro pump spammers, and the electric immunity lets you break up most opposing volt-turn cores, which is a also a major boon.

    If you do decide to keep Starmie, use Life Orb > Expert Belt and then Recover > HP [FIRE]. This gives you a guranteed boost to your moves, which is really great, and a guranteed way to recover damage from both your residual and your new Life Orb's damage. Also use a Jolly nature > Adamant on terrakion, as you really need to outspeed those key +1 base 100 threats, most notably Volcarona for you.

    GL with the team
    Choice Specs Gastrodon (open)
    Gastrodon @ Choice Specs
    Nature: Modest (+SpA -Atk)
    Trait: Storm Drain
    EV's: 248HP/ 252SpA/ 8Spe
    Scald/ Earth Power/ Ice Beam/ HP [GRASS]
  3. Me So Shiny

    Me So Shiny

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2012
    Messages:
    30
    Hey man voltTurn is a great offensive strategy and many people don't know how to handle it. But this team is destroyed by a sun team with Venusaur, it can OHKO your entire team after rocks except for landorus who it can use sleep powder on. It does 90-105% to Jirachi with hidden power fire, scizor is handled with HP fire, and then you have three grass weak pokemon who get a STAB solarbeam. All of these calcs are at +2 after one growth in the sun. The best thing I could say is to replace Jirachi with heatran but then you lose out on wish support which you say you want. If you go against a good sun team you are going to have to predict a venusaur switch in and play accordingly.
  4. NMx13

    NMx13

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2011
    Messages:
    179
    Thanks, Asek and Me So Shiny :)

    I changed Terrakions nature to Jolly and I did give X-Scissor to destroy Psychics. I will try out Gastrodon.
    Heatran doesn't sound bad either but then my team would be trouble with Keldeo, Virizion, Conkeldurr...
    I will try Psychic/Psyshock on Starmie in order to beat all common fighting types. At moment Rain teams cause more troubles than Sun team.
  5. Trinitrotoluene

    Trinitrotoluene ◠‿◠
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnus
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    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2010
    Messages:
    1,188
    Hey. One of the authors of the VoltTurn Guide on-site here. I really like your team due to its use of VoltTurn with Landorus-T and without Genesect. However, your team has a few weaknesses that I think I can help with. Right now, your team has a gaping weakness to sun teams, as Asek and Me So Shiny stated. Since your Starmie does not have Rapid Spin, I think its slot could be better served with Choice Scarf Latios. The standard Growth Venusaur typically runs a Modest nature and Hidden Power Fire, which means that Scarf Latios can beat it. Latios also gets most of the moves your Starmie is running (sans Hydro Pump, but that's beside the point). As Arcticblast mentioned below, if you do try out this recommendation, it would be beneficial to maintain a Choice Scarf on Terrakion, so Volcarona and other powerful Pokemon can be contained more easily.

    Now, for some smaller reommendations. I'd recommend the use of Stealth Rock over Protect on Jirachi. Its typing is much more suitable for laying Stealth Rock, due to the higher number of resistances it possesses. Doing this will free up a slot for Landorus-T to abuse. Provided you follow on through with the Jirachi suggestion, I'd recommend trying out Gravity over Stealth Rock on Landorus-T. This helps against stall teams by forcing their levitating Steels (e.g. Skarmory, Bronzong) to the ground, where they lie vulnerable to Landorus-T's Earthquake.

    Set:
    [​IMG]
    Latios @ Choice Scarf | Levitate
    Timid | 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Draco Meteor | Surf | Psyshock | Trick


    Nitpicks:
    [​IMG] ----> [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Stealth Rock ----> Gravity

    [​IMG]
    Protect ----> Stealth Rock

    For Latios, Draco Meteor and Surf provide great neutral coverage. Psyshock helps against Keldeo, Breloom, Terrakion, and Virizion. You could opt to use Hidden Power Fire over Trick, but you lose an answer to Cloyster and stall in the process. I didn't list this idea out since it would change too much for your team, but you could opt to try out an Incarnate Landorus over Therian Landorus, due to the higher Special Attack and Speed it possesses. If you do want to use this, I'd recommend an EV spread of 224 Atk / 32 Def / 252 Spe with a Naive nature, an IV spread of 30 HP / 30 Def, and a moveset of Gravity | Earthquake | Hidden Power Ice | U-turn. Of course, feel free to mess with this spread until you find one that satisfies your needs. All in all, good team. Luvdisc'd.
  6. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast LOL STAFF FAG
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a SPL Winner
    Mentor

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    I know Trinitrotoluene still wants to rate your team more, but for now if you decide to take his Latios suggestion: Do NOT remove Terrakion's Choice Scarf. If you do, Volcarona - a popular Sun Pokemon - will run right through your team, as Latios's Psyshock does around 65% maximum while Volcarona just OHKOs with Bug Buzz.

    Also, have you considered U-Turn over Protect on Jirachi? It has the bulk to easily keep Wish going without resorting to Protect. While Protect might allow you to stall against Guts Pokemon and targets of Will-O-Wisp, U-Turn keeps the VoltTurn strategy alive and makes Jirachi a decent catch-all Pokemon to lead with. It's also incredibly satisfying to U-Turn against Dugtrio and Magnezone switchins ;)
  7. MysticNova

    MysticNova

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    87
    112 or 144 EVs in Speed should do fine for Landorus-T as it doesn't really need the speed. Investing in HP (or SAtk to guarantee the KO) will help in using its ability and resistances. 112 outspeeds the Jolly Tyranitar speed tier mess, while 144 outspeeds Modest Heatran. You can invest more in Speed if you want, I just feel it won't help you very much.

    Jirachi isn't doing too much for the team except for Wish, since Scizor and Specially Defensive Rotom-W check Tornadus-T pretty well already (I know it checks Latios, but between U-turns, Ice Beams, and status, they shouldn't be able to do too much). You also say that you need Jirachi to check Keldeo, Virizion, and Conkeldurr. However, Jirachi isn't a very good check to these Pokemon at all thanks to her neutrality to Fighting and Specially Defensive nature. As such, I would like to recommend a Tinkerbell Celebi and Heatran over Starmie and Jirachi. Celebi eases the burden of taking powerful Water moves off of Rotom-W while taking on the above mentioned Fighting-types very well. The Paralysis will also help Scizor, Landorus-T, and Rotom-W avoid getting outsped. Leaf Storm is extremely powerful and will put a huge dent in almost anything. Celebi will really help against Gastrodon, who troubles Rotom-W and Starmie greatly and will procede to launch Scalds that the rest of your team hates. Celebi can take any Scald, even one that burns, and KO with ease, with Recover to heal off any damage. Heatran will help against your Sun weakness and more or less counters Genesect, who would otherwise give a lot of trouble to your team. Heatran will also provide the Steel-typing that Jirachi had. If Heatran does not suit your tastes, a more offensive route of Latias or Latios would also be great choices against sun, while providing valuable resistances. Unfortunately, this will only aggravate your Genesect weakness. SubDD Gyarados is also a great idea thanks to its ability to check sun while doing well against Fighting-types. It's a great sweeper overall and also forms a great double Intimidate core with Landorus-T.

    I just read the teambuilding part, but I will stand by my original Pokemon selections. Heatran is one of the most-used mon's even in this Rain infested meta (which has died down a little from what I have seen) for a reason. It does its job well the other 80% of the time rain isn't there. Even when it is, it still has great value defensively against Tornadus-T as well as offensively against Ferrothorn, Scizor, and Genesect. Celebi simply seems to fit this team like a glove thanks to the Pokemon that it checks, resistances, Grass-type STAB, and Paralysis. Heatran isn't too major, but I think Celebi really belongs on this team.


    Great team! Hope I helped.
  8. Harsha

    Harsha
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    I'm not sure why you say your team isn't weak to entry hazards, as by definition, VoltTurn teams are wrecked by hazards, and yours is no exception. On Starmie, the easiest change to make would be running Rapid Spin over Hidden Power Fire, or whatever move you have in the last slot. If you're not using Starmie for Rapid Spin, you're pretty much doing it wrong, because many Pokemon outclass it for a special attacking role. Run a spread of 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe with a Timid nature to complement this. I would also recommend Leftovers because you're probably going to need to use Rapid Spin multiple times throughout battles. Right now, every time Terrakion or Scizor come out, they're taking damage that is pretty hard to regain, even with Wish support.

    Your description says you use Adamant, while your set says Jolly, so I'll comment on this because I'm not sure what nature you run. You pretty much have to use a Jolly nature on Choice Scarf Terrakion, otherwise you're really not using it correctly. Choice Scarf Terrakion is, first and foremost, a revenge killer. Only once you've removed all the impediments to its sweep can it effectively clean up late game. By forgoing a Jolly nature, you're losing to Volcarona in the sun, most variants of Choice Scarf Salamence, Choice Scarf Landorus, opposing Choice Scarf Terrakion, and numerous other threats that you should be beating. For this reason, I would stick to a Jolly nature.

    Finally, I think there are more effective Landorus-T sets out there. 164 HP / 252 Atk / 92 Spe with an Adamant nature does much better in terms of efficiency; similarly, I'm not sure what you're using Hidden Power Ice for. Pumping all those EVs into Special Attack is really a waste, as you're really going for a 4x effective move when 2x would be enough. Stone Edge hits all the targets you're hitting with Hidden Power Ice hard enough, and while you don't get 4x coverage on as many opponents as you used to, you do get more consistent damage. Good luck, I hope I helped.
  9. NMx13

    NMx13

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2011
    Messages:
    179
    Thanks guys! I tried out Celebi once again, but I didn't like it much. Jirachi is much superior, it can paralyze Ground/VoltAbsorb. I did give it Physhock to hit Fighting types. I tried also Gastrodon, it has indeed awesome typing, but base stats (kinda) suck ;( If I decide use Latios (Prob Spec), then I will/might give U-turn to Jirachi. C-Band Bullet Punch Scizor vs Venusaur - 70.09 - 83.05% also I have Jirachi and Terrakion. Venusaur isn't too big problem, which is my reason to try Spec Latios instead of Scarf. Landorus-T EVs 108 HP / 144 Atk / 112 SAtk / 144 Spd Yeah 144 speed EVs is just enough, thanks. I will try Heatran and Landorus-I as well when I have time.

    EDIT: Harsha, First off.. I forgot change description, Yes I'm using Jolly Terrakion. Okay almost every team is weak to entry hazards, that is why we all are using Stealth Rock. Anyway my team doesn't mind too much about entry hazards. Sorry If I did cause some misunderstandings. I'm using Spec Latios over Starmie now. I will try that Landorus-T EV spread. Thanks.
  10. MilkNuggetsPie

    MilkNuggetsPie

    Joined:
    May 7, 2012
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    8
    ok team,
    by the way niko, hows finland?

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