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VoltTurn - The best defense is a good offense

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Onray, Feb 20, 2013.

  1. Onray

    Onray

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    6
    The Best Defense is a Good Offense ​


    ---- The Inspiration ------
    My desire to play with a VoltTurn team came from my history with the game Yugioh. For those of you who know about yugioh would know about an archtype of cards known as the Gladiator Beasts (for those that don't Google is your best friend :D) Anyways I loved the idea that I could constantly switch cards in and out to take advantage of the field. As I rediscovered Pokemon, I fell in love with the concept of VoltTurning.

    ------ Team Building --------
    I had many iterations as I was building this team. It started with with the usual
    Scizor, (a personal fav since Gen 2) Rotom-W, and Landorus-T , Espeon, Salamence, Infernape (I was weird, I know)
    I realized that the strength of VoltTurn teams came not from their ability to deal with every possible situation but to apply offensive pressure. With that in mind I completely revamped the team so that it could apply the most amount of pressure and strike hard and fast.

    ------- The Team "Glory Under Heaven" -----------
    (This is my first time working with the forums so I don't really know how to add pictures and make it fancy so sorry for the bland presentation.)

    Occupy Scizor (Scizor) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 Atk / 8 Spd / 248 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - U-turn
    - Superpower
    - Bullet Punch
    - Pursuit

    The original Scizor was scarfed. But after a few play tests I realized that I missed the power. I like to think of this guy as the "hitman" he's brought in when damage is needed and needed ASAP. U-turn and Bullet Punch provide the STAB. Superpower hits the pink blobs and knocks their socks off, and pursuit deals with guys who try to flee. No matter the poke, with Band this guy is sure to take a chunk out of anyone. Deals with T-Tar and revenge kills Terrakion if necessary. I'm pretty sure this guy can live a DM from Spec Latios and KO with pursuit. (watch out for the HP fire).

    LaundroMate (Rotom-Wash) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 28SAtk / 248HP / 232 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Volt Switch
    - Pain Split
    - Thunder Wave
    *** Edited: I realized that Rotom had great diversity in his moves and I was limiting his options with a Choice item, so I decided to opt for a more specially defensive set will still letting him dish out damage. The Thunder wave lets me slow down the incoming Venasaur so that I could have a chance to fight back against something that could set up and sweep me. ***
    I had the most fun experimenting with this fella. At first I used the Bulky Attacker set. Then a Defensive set. I settled with the Specs because it allowed me to deal tons of DMG with Volt Switch and HP Fire catching steel types unaware. If I predict well a well timed trick cripples walls such as Chansey and Gastrodon (my most feared wall). Because I will mostly be using Volt Switch I wanted to make sure that I could deal the most damage with that move (similar idea to Banded U-Turn). I don't really miss the speed, I needed something that could take a neutral hit and KO or finish off with Volt Switch or Hydropump. OHKOs Hippos (99% of the times? xD)

    WuKong (Infernape) (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Stealth Rock
    - U-turn
    - Close Combat
    - Fire Blast

    *** Edited: Just trying out i Darky's suggestions, SR's are pretty good entry hazards especially taking into account that this team forces alot of switches. The sash lets him get a hit off even after setting SR and U-Turn lets him bail out and come back in if necessary. I may revert back to my scarf set, but I think playing with the Stealth Rocker will be quite fun as well ***
    A questionable member but still really good. At first I had this guy run Grass Knot rather than Mach, but couldn't deal the damage I wanted, and if it hits something I would rather not have it hit, switching this guy out becomes a liability. With a Scarf he makes sure Terrakion stays where he belongs, in the party roster cowering. I didn't want to use Stone edge because I hated the 20% chance of getting a stone broadside (I hope someone gets this joke). The CC and Flare Blitz STABS ensure something gets hit very hard if i'm in a pinch. So basically a physical attacker.

    EarthSprite (Landorus) (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sand Force
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
    Naive Nature
    - U-turn
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    *** Edited: The only change here was due to my own silly mistake, Switched Sheer force for Sand Force. ***
    Revenge Kill, Sweep, Lead, this guy does it all. The scarf really catches people by surprise and the sheer force makes certain that I always get a power boost. HP Ice on this guy makes him a tag team duo with Celebi to ensure dragons are put in their place. Other than that everything else should be pretty self-explanatory.

    Fluffy (Hydreigon) @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Modest Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Focus Blast
    - Fire Blast
    - U-turn
    *** Edited: With expert belt I can bluff a choice if needed, I can also have the diversity of moves that Hydregion provides so that I won't be locked into DM that would just constantly cut my attack. ***
    So I needed offense, well I didn't need to look further, with Specs this dragon rips through pokes with Draco Meteor. Combined with my Infernape (physical attacker) Something is going to be going home crippled. This set is simply meant to deal damage and gain a lead, otherwise he becomes pretty useless considering his speed vs. other dragons. But still, his strength and ability to take 1-2 hits becomes really handy sometimes.

    Lady of the Forest (Celebi) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 56 HP / 252 SAtk / 200 Spd
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
    - Giga Drain
    - Earth Power
    - Thunder Wave
    - Psychic

    *** Edited: Taking into account that even with the edits, half my team is choiced. I wanted a few pokes that could hit alot of "stuff" and hit it hard. This offensive set does just that. With Giga Drain I can pass on the Recover (but i give up on the damage). Thunder Wave cripples anything that could potentially become dangerous and the Psychic just gives me an opportunity to use my STAB. With Natural Cure I can also switch in and absorb statuses for the rest of my team. (Landorous will be my one and only dragon revenge killer) ***
    Nothing here should be too surprising, Leaf Storm is one of the only moves that I have to ensure Gastrodon's death, other than that i'm pretty much dead in the water. HP Ice is for Outraging dragons that need to take a chill pill, or annoying ground types *cough*Landorus*cough* I mostly use this guy to take the physical hits and to absorb the grass attacks that plague my Rotom. Celebi also checks rain teams pretty well, combined with natural cure he can switch into Politoeds toxic's and scalds. Earth power is to hurt Jirachi.


    ------- Recap ------
    So my team uses diverse move pools and types to try to stay alive defensively, but it's strengths comes from each individual. Their presence forces the opponent to make the correct decision while I can VoltTurn around until something favorable lands in my bucket. Since this team is all about speed and bringing the best match ups it sometimes requires that 2- pokes to die in order for me to get the revenge kills that I look for.

    This team is all about that "element of surprise" and the ability to just constantly switch so that my opponents needs to be on their toes constantly. If they ever get complacent and think that they can get a first strike in, my scarfers usually tell them otherwise.

    I'm quite proud of this team, I wanted something that felt easy and at home to use, while at the same time staying away from the "hipster" weather teams and the standard " 3 core " teams.

    ------- Threats -------
    So there is the obvious entry hazards. Although the only one that affects me is stealth rock, Spikes can be avoided by Hydra, Land, and Rotom. Toxic spikes is avoided by all of the above and Scizor. And my team is pretty fragile so that they are all pretty much OHKO'd by anything they don't resisit so Stealth Rocks are NBD in my oponion, I haven't lost too many games to SR and yes I have tried playing with Foretress, but it became set up bait way to easily even with volt switching.

    Chlorophyll Venasaur with Timid will set up and sweep unless I get a lucky with predictions and land a HP Fire or EQ

    Gastrodon and Skarmory will wall this team to kingdom come and back. Sometimes I feel like the problem is me, and that i'm just not using my team well enough.

    ------ In Conclusion -----
    Thank you for sticking through with this bland post till the end, Much appreciated. This is my first RMT and the 3rd actual team I've made and play tested like crazy. I've tried playing with Mienshao and Jirachi but they lacked the damage and the offensive pressure that I wanted this team to have. I am currently 1402 on the OU ladder. Any comments will be appreciated, I'm relatively new to competitive pokemon and i'm sure any comments and improvements can help me improve. Thanks again everyone :D

    Edited *** I will be play testing most of the suggestions so the set could change again. Thanks again to everyone who rated this team :D ***
  2. Bluebanana

    Bluebanana

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2012
    Messages:
    15
    After looking at your team I might suggest that you have a trapper such as Gothitelle or Dugtrio. This will allow you pressure the opponent further as they will be under a constant amount of pressure from the threat of having their pokemon trapped and KO'd when you volt turn on them.
  3. Onray

    Onray

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    6
    Hey blue, I've never seriously considered to include a trapper. Do you think I should swap my hydregion for gothitelle? That way I can secure a definite KO like I would with my Hydregion? What about its move set? Choice specs or the calm mind variant?
  4. Basileus

    Basileus

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    279
    Trappers don't secure a KO, in fact there is a lot of counters nowadays that aruntee the exact opposite. I do not advise Gothitelle or Dugtrio
  5. RoyalBlue

    RoyalBlue

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2013
    Messages:
    100
    I love VoltTurn soooo much. Very good concepts you have going on here. But at the same time, you have way too many choice pokes. The most I'd suggest is 2. So definitely change some items around so your opponent can't predict around your team easily.

    So...
    Rotom-W:Choice Specs>Chesto Berry
    Very good if you need to keep the VoltTurn momentum up. It can bluff the choice item after they don't see lefties and switch in a ground type to force you to switch. Then all you have to do is KO them with hydro pump. I also would advise you to change HP fire to ice so you can hit grass types on the switch as well as dragon and ground types (aka gliscor and lando).

    Rotom-W@Chesto Berry
    Levitate
    252 SpA/252 HP/4 SpD
    -Hydro Pump
    -Volt Switch
    -Rest
    -Hidden Power (ice)

    You might want to change scizor to a life orb swords dance one for late game sweeping but if no, that's fine. Just might be very threatening for opposing teams since after +2, your opponent is going to wet their pants. And you might want to replace super power with quick attack to nail resists and dual priority can help out a lot

    Scizor@Life Orb
    Technician
    252 Atk/8 SpD/248 HP
    -Bullet Punch
    -Quick Attack
    -Roost
    -Swords Dance

    And lastly, you might want to add lefties onto celebi. Choice scarf doesn't benefit it against Gastro since its already really slow and being able to switch from a special attack to u-turn can be very helpful. It also makes a Great Wall against breloom so extra recovery and if you are using it as status fodder can be very handy. You might also ant to replace HP ice with for instead so you can kill any scizors that want to pursuit trap you or uturn. This strategy can also help against ferrothorn and forretress that think its safe to set up hazards. And back to the scarf thing, 2 good scarfers in lando and Infernape handles most other scatters (except keldeo) with another one might be overkill sometimes.

    Gl, RoyalBlue
  6. Onray

    Onray

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    6
    Those are some interesting compositions royal! I will definitely try those out. I've never tried restochesto on my rotom, and although I have tried a SD scissor, having it run 2 priorities seem quite interesting! Thanks for the advice !
  7. Cinco Diablo

    Cinco Diablo formerly Dr Ciel

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,222
    Hey man, nice team.

    Volt-Turn is a very interesting concept, utilizing the moves Volt Switch and U-Turn in an effort to wear down the opponents team and sweep late game with your Scarfer of choice, in this case, Landorus. However, I see some flaws that this team has and hopefully my rate will help iron out those flaws. With that said, let's get to the rate. Alright, first up, I would like to suggest changing your Infernapes EV spread to one of 108 Atk / 148 SpA / 252 Spe and a Hasty Nature over your current EV spread and Nature. The aftermentioned EV spread allows Infernape to be an excellent mixed attacker, while a Hasty Nature prevents the invested Special Attack from being lowered. Staying on Infernape, I would like to suggest running Hidden Power Ice over your current choice of Mach Punch. I don't believe that Mach Punch is good on a Choiced mon and Hidden Power Ice helps you hit the likes of Landorus and Gliscor for the OHKOs. Moving on to Rotom-W, I suggest running a Timid Nature over your current Modest Nature. A Timid Nature allows Rotom-W to outspeed +1 Dragonite, Gyarados, and neutral natured Haxorus. Finally, on Hydreigon, I recommend using Fire Blast over your current choice of Dark Pulse. Fire Blast hits Ferrothorn and especially Jirachi extremely hard. Well, that's all I have to say for now. I hope my advice helped. Have fun and good luck in your future endeavours!

    Show Hide
    Show Hide

    • Infernape [​IMG]: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 Atk -> 108 Atk / 148 SpA / 252 Spe
    • Jolly -> Hasty​
    • Mach Punch -> Hidden Power Ice​
    • Rotom-W [​IMG]: Modest -> Timid​
    • Hydreigon [​IMG]: Dark Pulse -> Fire Blast​


    ~Dr Ciel~ (The doctor is OUT)
  8. Onray

    Onray

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    6
    Hey thanks for the rate dr. Ciel! I've always been hesitant about running fire blast because of the chance of miss :P. I run a jolly ape in case of scarf terrain, but I'll try out the hasty set! I feel that rotom is the hardest poke to nail down with a specific build because it can fill so many different roles. I will need to do a lot of play testing this weekend! Thanks again !
  9. dcae

    dcae naughty list

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,173
    Sorry about the short rate, not much time, but I would replace Sheer Force with Sand Force on Landorus, because Sheer Force isn't actually boosting any of the moves. Correct me if I'm wrong, but with Sand Force at least you'll have a boost against Sand teams.
  10. i Darky

    i Darky

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    21
    I couldn't happen to notice that your using Sheer Force on a physically based Landorus. Sheer Force does NOT boost Earhquake, Stone Edge, U-turn, nor Stone Edge. Therefore I would recommend Sand Force over your current ability and it will help you against sand teams.

    Also, I believe you have wayy to many choiced mons. Even in a Volt-Turn team, they will lose you precious momentum. I suggest to try Expert Belt on Hydreigon because he can bluff a choiced set and still have extra power on super effective hits and given Hydreigon's movepool, isn't too difficult. The freedom to switch moves also helps. You also have no entry hazards, and virtually any team will benefit from Stealth Rocks to help weaken threats like Dragonite, Salamence, & Volcorona. I recommend Focus Sash over Choice Scarf on your Infernape set and you could replace Mach Punch with Stealth Rocks.

    TL;DR:

    Sand Force > Sheer Force on Landorus because Sheer Force doesn't help your moveset
    Expert Belt > Choice Specs on Hydriegon
    Focus Sash + Stealth Rocks + Fire Blast/Flamethrower > Choice Scarf + Mach Punch + Flare Blitz (to avoid recoil breaking your sash) on Infernape

    Sets:

    Landorus (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sand Force
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - U-turn
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Hydreigon (M) @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Focus Blast
    - Dark Pulse
    - U-turn

    Infernape (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Stealth Rock
    - U-turn
    - Close Combat
    - Fire Blast
  11. Onray

    Onray

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    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    6
    I can't believe I never caught my mistake.i completely misunderstood the affect of sheer force, thank you! I will be changing that ASAP :)
  12. RoyalBlue

    RoyalBlue

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2013
    Messages:
    100
    And about that trapper thing, it's very circumstantial but works well during some cases. Most of the time though, it isn't worth it to waste a spot on your team. Most games, dug and Gothitelle only manages to take out 1 poke. Afterwards, it's just death fodder or or some other form of fodder
  13. Onray

    Onray

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
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    I was also thinking about changing my hydregion into expert belt, so it's nice to know that my thoughts are heading in the right place. I'm not sure how much I'll miss my speedy ape, but I think SR are also pretty important, ill give that a go as well. thanks for the rate! :)


    Would you recommend any changes in EV's since flare blitz is a physical while fire blast and flame thrower is special... Say 108 Atk and 148 SpA?
  14. i Darky

    i Darky

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
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    Yes, you should give Infernape EVs in both Attack & Sp. Attack but I would focus on Attack because Fire Blast is pretty useless against common rain teams.

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