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Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by Jibaku, May 9, 2010.

  1. Jibaku

    Jibaku Who let marco in here????
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    Dec 13, 2005

    The release of HeartGold and SoulSilver has undoubtedly shifted the metagame a bit – the rise of Shadow Sneak Giratina-O and Brave Bird Ho-oh quite interestingly left the metagame focused on Dragon and Fire Attacks. Stall teams saw a rise as Ho-oh’s immense bulk and power filled in many gaps in them. This, in turn, caused the metagame to move its attention towards entry hazards and more on offense, which in turn caused stall to decline as people overprepare for them. This is evident in august’s henry, where he abused Spikes and Stealth Rock and popularized Hidden Power Fire/Shadow Sneak Giratina-O. However in this rabble a few Pokemon were forgotten…

    This team attempts to showcase the utility of a few undervalued Pokemon, specifically Heatran and Latias. These two Pokemon are currently “anti-metagame”, because they destroy a large part of it. The rare Trick Scarf Deoxys-S and Scarf Jirachi also make appearances that perform crucial roles for the team. The team also combines the common “semistall” and offensive playstyles, given the quick entry hazards, but also some good bulk provided by just about everything in the team! How exactly do you classify this team? Flashstorm1 called it “offensive balance”, and Ace Matador called it “Semistall”. You know what I think? Forget team classification! It’s a team of Pokemon, period. (Theorymon says "Right on Jibaku!)

    As proof of this team’s success I’ve gotten to #2 with it a few times (couldn’t be bothered to get to #1 because I already accomplished that twice before ANYWAYS…it peaked at 1829 so it's good enough). However, as with any RMT, I need help – this team suffers from a few problems in which I can’t seem to cover up.A main issue of this team is that it’s a bit unstable - it sort of falls to hax, and unlike my previous Stall teams it relies too much on haxing back to regain the advantage. Speaking of that, another problem with the team is that it requires thought and whenever I'm in a tilt, this team fails me =(

    This is probably the final 4th generation team I will make. With 5th gen stepping closer to our doorsteps, there isn’t a whole lot of time left. Of course, if ARCEUS (and I mean Arceus, not "Farceus" or "Farkeus" depending on how you want to pronounce it....) comes out before then, it may be a different story. To go out with a bang, I’ve put my utmost effort into creating this team, putting comprehensive information and organizing them so they would be easy to read.

    Like my previous teams, I will tell you right now I might lie on the EV spreads, but if you can suggest a better EV spread, please do so =). Without further ado…

    Team at a glance:

    Now for the actual team!


    The entry hazard Core

    Deoxys-e @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 244 HP / 40 Def / 52 Spd / 174 SDef
    Careful nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Spikes
    - Taunt
    - Superpower
    - Trick

    General Information
    Even with Deoxys-S leads being prepared for nowadays, it still remains as the most consistent lead in the metagame, setting up hazards with relative ease. This Deoxys-S lead differs from the general Spikes / Stealth Rock / Taunt / ExtremeSpeed lead, however, as it is a dedicated Spiker. Since this team is focused around entry hazards, I decided that splitting up Stealth Rock on another Pokemon would overall be beneficial to the team as putting both hazards on Deoxys-S places too much pressure on it and should situations come up where only one hazard can be put up (e.g. vs. Lead Tyranitar), it would throw over the focus of the team. Anyways, this is a TrickScarfer lead, which isn't seen at all nowadays. Its main advantage over the standard Deoxys-S is laying down Spikes before Scarf Shaymin-S/Scarfrai attack. This thing has a surprising amount of bulk which I will discuss later.

    Also I find it quite weird that some Deoxys-S runs only ExtremeSpeed as their sole attacking move. I mean come on, would you really give up your coverage against other Deoxys-S to defeat Deoxys-A?

    Show Hide

    Moveset Explanation
    Well Spikes is outright obvious, and Taunt is still useful in halting opposing set ups once I've tricked the Scarf onto something. Superpower is only for times I may actually need to attack - it helps greatly with Darkrai. I've considered Pursuit since most Deoxys-S leads Taunt me and it would be funny to chop them up a little bit as they switch with Pursuit, but I decided to scrap the idea because I don't want stuff like Scizor coming in and Pursuiting my hazardmon.

    EV explanation
    With Choice Scarf patching its Speed (which is already insane to begin with), moving the EVs into the defenses seem logical. With these EVs, Leadquaza will almost never KO it with LO Fire Blast + ExtremeSpeed, and most of the time they won't OHKO with Draco Meteor anyways. Shaymin-S will 3HKO at best with Air Slash so I get three layers of Spikes against it. If I Trick against Forretress, Payback will not 2HKO me if I snag Leftovers. Also, it survives Crunch from SpecialTar lead after sand. The Speed EVs are only there so that it can outrun a Rock Polish Jolly Groudon at +2 while having a Choice Scarf attached, so that I may cripple it.

    Lead Explanation

    Deoxys-S: Trick allows me to at least cripple opposing Deoxys-S. If they Taunt, we both switch. I usually switch to Groudon to hopefully catch their Pursuiter and set up rocks immediately. If they attack with Signal Beam or Shadow Ball, I get my one layer, then switch to Groudon and set up the Stealth Rock. If they use SR or Spikes I just go for my three layers. However, battling against three layers worth of Spikes is rather annoying, but I do have two Levitators so I might not be at a huge loss here.

    Deoxys-A: I usually go for the Spikes here, then switch out to Jirachi to attempt an Ironflinch. If it uses ExtremeSpeed on the first turn, I get two layers of Spikes down

    Groudon: Spikes twice, generally. If it uses Stealth Rock I get three Spikes. After Deoxys-S is dead Groudon is sent out and Stealth Rocks, then Roars.

    Kyogre: Spikes twice (Deoxys-S will survive a Surf barring a crit), then Latias is sent out to handle Kyogre. Although it’ll get paralyzed by Thunder Wave, it would weaken Kyogre to the point where it would be hard to use and making it easier to preserve my sunlight. Water Spout Kyogre can be annoying as it OHKOes Deoxys-S, however

    Dialga: There are a few ways I can do this. Deoxys-S will survive two Flamethrowers from lead Dialga so if it goes by that route I get three layers. To destroy Deoxys by the second turn, it must use Draco Meteor, which then allows Groudon to set up SR without too much of a threat. On certain occasions when I feel trollish I can Trick as it Thunder Waves. Lum Berry will cure me of paralysis and Dialga's left choiced, allowing for easy Spikes set up.

    Darkrai: I would just Spikes, and then take the Dark Void. I usually then go to Jirachi to scout for whatever they have. Deoxys-S will also survive a Dark Pulse so it can get two layers down. Signal Beam may come in handy once in a while

    Mew: Yeah it’ll probably use U-turn so I’ll use Spikes. Scizor will probably come in after (or Giratina-O), and I’ll try to handle them by double switching etc (read later)
    Scizor: Spikes, then try to predict between Bullet Punch and Pursuit in order to get that second Spikes. If it Pursuits Deoxys-S correctly Groudon comes in and sets up SR so I’m not at a huge loss.

    Giratina-O: See Scizor, except I can’t send in Groudon (Heatran is sent in instead). However, Giratina-O doesn’t have Pursuit, which makes it easier to preserve Deoxys-S. On some occasions I catch it on the double switch as it uses Earthquake, sacrificing Deoxys-S’ life to reveal their surprise. Shadow Sneak crits are extremely annoying, though.

    Rayquaza: Not too bad. I would just stay in against those who use Life orb leadrays, getting two layers of Spikes if they opt for Fire Blast + ES. If they Draco Meteor I'll probably survive and switch into Groudon while I set up Stealth Rock. Focus Sash LeadRay is handled in the same way, I guess

    Shaymin-S: One of the prime targets for Scarf Deoxys-S - it will most likely Air Slash and cause the team's demise as Deoxys-S effortlessly manages three layers of Spikes against it. It can 2HKO Deoxys-S with Seed Flare, though.

    Forretress: Trick severely cripples Forretress. They often Payback on the first turn which easily nets me two layers of Spikes. Then, Groudon can set up SR as it is forced to switch out. If they use Toxic Spikes I'll just spam Spikes while if they use Spikes I'll probably Taunt and set up Spikes of my own. If Forretress uses Rapid Spin it loses since Leftovers outheals the damage lol.

    Possible Replacements:

    I am considering Forretress over Deoxys-S, whose ability to stop most other Deoxys-S leads better and being able to lay down Toxic Spikes help this team quite a bit, slowing down sweepers and torturing Blissey. Oh and being a third Steel type helps. However, this means I have less control over the early game (which you can see in the Deoxys-S vs leads section - most notably against Rayquaza lead). Also, Forretress lead mirrormatches are stupid -_-, and I can't really lead with Groudon since I don't want to risk the possibility of them having Deoxys-S + Giratina-O. I would have to use Gyro Ball though, because the thought of Darkrai Nasty Plotting on Forry is scary considering my Scarfer can't even OHKO it. Since Forry often only carries Payback as an attacking move (Rapid Spin does NOT count!), Darkrai could easily set up without having to Dark Void which could put me in a horrid position. However, this would unfortunately force me to use Shed Shell to avoid Wobbuffet (this is significant as Deoxys-S can Taunt Forry and then Wobbuffet gets sent in, and if I happen to use Rapid Spin at that time Wobb could Encore and then proceed to Counter me to death!). Another option is to use Bug Bite which means I wouldn't have to lower Speed and therefore I can use Leftovers without fearing Wobb, but it does pathetic damage to Giratina-O (which then forces me to treat Forry as sacrifice against EQ variants, though I'd get a lot of hazards in the process). Bug Bite also has the added bonus of dealing tons of damage to lead Mew thanks to its Lum Berry. But unlike Gyro Ball, Rayquaza laughs at it. Using Gyro Ball with enough Speed to beat Wobb is a terrible idea X_X. The final option is to drop Toxic Spikes for Bug Bite...and I don't want to remove TS because that's the main reason Forretress is here, and I'm certainly not removing Spikes either!

    Okay I will admit that after testing Cloyster a bit with a set of Ice Beam / Rapid Spin / Toxic Spikes / Spikes @ Sash, it's not bad. Against slower leads and stall it gets Toxic Spikes + Spikes down easily, while Spinning away at Deoxys-S leads as well as threatening Giratina-O switch ins with Ice Beam. But I dunno - Cloyster is still fairly slow and isn't as versatile as Deoxys-S in terms of leading, and dislikes being put up against Forretress. What this thing can do that Forretress can't is set up both TS and Spikes against lead Kyogre and Dialga (barring fast ones, though). Obviously the main appeal here that it has over Deoxys-S is being able to lay down Toxic Spikes.

    This Deoxys-S used to be a lead with 144 Atk / 252 Speed / 112 SAtk, Naive, Fire Punch / Spikes / Taunt / Signal Beam. However, ScarfDeoxys-S' ability to outrun Scarfrai and Scarfmin-S eventually gave the Sashlead the bootout from the team. Still, it performed its job exceptionally well while it was on the team. If for any reason Scarf Deoxys-S fails me, I can return back to this lead.

    Groudon @ Leftovers
    Ability: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP/56 Def/40 Spd/162 SDef
    Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Stealth Rock
    - Roar
    General info
    For a team that focuses on Heatran, Groudon is pretty darn important. It sets up sunlight, and of course, Stealth Rock. After this Groudon’s only job left to complete is checking random physical attackers and absorbing Electric-type moves such as Thunder Wave and Thunder. Nothing else to describe in this short section eh?
    Show Hide

    EV explanation
    The EV spread is quite different from the standard – instead of focusing solely on physical defense, some special defense are thrown in. This spread, in particular, allows it to survive Life Orb +2 Darkrai’s Dark Pulse after Stealth Rock damage. Although it’s unreliable, it can help in pinch situations. Groudon can also beat Scarf Palkia one on one (if Palkia has taken entry hazard damage). The Speed EVs seem excessive, but they outrun most Ho-oh in the game, which is essential as the team does not enjoy facing Ho-oh. It will also help against the slow base 90s.

    Moveset Explanation
    Earthquake is self explanatory, while Stone Edge smashes Ho-oh and Rayquaza. As for the last moveslot, I’ve had Rest before, because Blissey isn’t friendly to the team. However, I think Roar is better overall, despite having another phazer. This allows me to escape the wrath of Double Dance Groudon once, and allows Latias to use Thunder instead of Grass Knot.

    Giratina-O @ Griseous Orb
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 248 Atk/200 Spd/60 SAtk
    Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Hidden Power [Fire] / Earthquake
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Draco Meteor
    - Dragon Claw
    General info
    Well obviously I’m not going to go without a spinblocker, right? Despite having Fire Punch on Deoxys-S, I still would like to prevent Forretress from Spinning away all of the hard work I went to get them up (read: it’s not hard, but if Deoxys-S dies I’d rather not see its effort wasted). Giratina-O also provides the team with the ever so useful Fighting and Ground immunities (well, Latias already has Ground immunity, but this helps, no?) Also helps beat down Rock Polish Groudon. And Mewtwo. And Adamant Lucario. And helps tremendously against Stall. And even helps absorb Explosions/Selfdestructs, Etc. You get it, right? By these reasons you should understand why Giratina-O is picked over Giratina-A, or any other Spinblocker really (because they’re either pretty darn frail (Gengar, Rotom-A), silly (Dusknoir, Spiritomb), doesn’t have Levitate (a lot of them), and they don’t work as great vs Stall or Mewtwo).

    Show Hide

    Moveset Explanation
    Hidden Power Fire is for the obvious “getting rid of Forretress” theme which has been recurring in this team, but I am considering Earthquake because it allows me to outrun all other Giratina-O (due to having max Speed IV - and this would mean I need to move EVs into Speed, obviously) and of course, to get rid of Heatran, but I'm scared of enemy Skarmory and Bronzong who shrugs off everything. Shadow Sneak is pretty self explanatory as it helps clean up soo much stuff it’s not even funny. Draco Meteor crushes Rock Polish Groudon and deals massive damage in general. Lastly, Dragon Claw is reliable and can allow me to hit Blisseys who might switch into it (trust me they sometimes do, probably to lock you into Outrage or something…whatever). The reason Outrage isn’t needed here is because I have Latias, who can tear up Kyogre anyways. Ho-oh is a slight issue though, but I can switch to Groudon during the Roost and tear it apart with Stone Edge.

    EV Explanation
    The EVs are pretty much the same as in the analysis, with extra Speed to outrun most other Giratina-O. It’s focused on Attack because I want to hurt Blissey with Dragon Claw, and increase my chances of 2HKOing Mewtwo with Shadow Sneak. That doesn’t mean Draco Meteor won’t hurt, though – STABed 140 BP *1.2 move is still pretty devastating in its own right

    Final Words

    Giratina-O’s typing allows it to be a tremendous partner to Heatran and Jirachi. Jirachi + Giratina-O can smack down Psychic types effectively while Heatran + Giratina-O is plain annoying to face =). Just ask tito!

    <awesome sprite by klnothincomin>

    The Team Focus(es)
    Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP/152 Spd/106 SDef
    Calm nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Taunt
    - Roar
    - Dragon Pulse / Toxic
    - Flamethrower

    General Info
    Quite an underrated mon. It’s slowly rising in usage though. Heatran is an excellent Pokemon in the Uber metagame due to its resistance to Dragon and Fire and immunity to Toxic Spikes, and in this team it full well takes advantage of that trait. As I said before, with the metagame focusing on Fire + Dragon, this stuff is useful. And it can actually hurt stuff besides walling them too. Heatran sort of suffers from having no recovery, however.

    Show Hide

    Moveset Explanation
    In case you haven’t been paying attention to the Heatran thread in the Ubers subforum, Roar can give a lot of headaches as their Heatran counters are sent in, take loads of entry hazard damage, and are promptly forced back out. Since Heatran handles many Pokemon, it might just drag out a Pokemon it normally scares off. And it has the option to stay in and probably die, or switch out and risk Roar. As you see, Heatran is an excellent phazer, and I’m sure you’d probably agree. Taunt harasses Stall teams to the extreme – it means Blissey can’t recover, then I can roar it out and add more entry hazard damage. Furthermore, I can Taunt Blissey and switch into Giratina-O, which decimates Blissey. Taunt also messes up Lugia, Giratina-A, and Lugia =). So yeah, this is my second weapon against stall. By messing around with their head, Heatran and the rest of the team prey on the opponent’s deteriorating composure.

    Flamethrower is chosen for reliability, and the power is generally preferred over the burn from Lava Plume. I am no way using Fire Blast or Overheat, they suck -_-. Fire Blast has imperfect accuracy and terrible PP, and where Pressure is flying about AND the fact that it’s supposed to be a defensive Pokemon makes it a terrible choice. Overheat is worse due to the -2 Special Attack, which means Taunt / WoW Mewtwo outstalls me =(. Dragon Pulse is for immediate damage to Dragons (unless they’re Latias or Dialga). I am considering Toxic in this spot, though, because it helps a lot against Latias and Lugia, and does wonders if I didn't get enough entry hazards when this is sent out.

    EV Explanation
    The EVs give it enough speed to outrun most Ho-oh (see: Groudon). Rest are just dumped into HP and SDef for overall bulk. With no recovery in hand, Heatran must tread carefully against powerful NVE attacks such as Dialga’s Choice Specs Draco Meteor or Ho-oh’s Brave Bird. For this reason, I carry Jirachi as a secondary Steel to absorb hits when I feel that I must preserve Heatran.

    Final Words
    Heatran holds the team against Scarf Dialga / Scarf Palkia (in the sun), Earthquakeless Ho-oh, Taunt / WoW Mewtwo, Lugia, Earthquakeless Giratina-O, TormentTran, and much, much more….the list is quite endless.

    Latias (F) @ Soul Dew
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 160 HP/252 Spd/96 SAtk
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Calm Mind
    - Recover
    - Thunder

    General Info
    Yeah uhhm so apparently her usage declined. I mean, what IS this?
    | 20 | Latias | 2261 | 9.27 |
    (January stats)

    | 22 | Latias | 3394 | 10.45 |
    (April stats)

    Pathetic. Absolutely pathetic. This is unacceptable! :RAGE:

    Anyways, I consider Latias to be an anti metagame Pokemon at this point. It appeared that people forgot her existence and thus many teams are weak to her. Latias is probably the best partner to Heatran in the game because not only do they counter each other’s weaknesses, they are pretty destructive to sun (Heatran), and rain (Latias) teams. Furthermore, being one of the best counters to Kyogre in the game, Latias secures the team’s purpose of abusing Heatran.

    What makes Latias so dangerous? She has no Uber counters, and thus you’re left with Scizor/Jirachi/Tyranitar/Blissey/Registeel as your best bets to stop her. Scizor gets 2HKOed by Thunder and is mauled by the entry hazards in the team, Jirachi doesn’t like Thunder either, Tyranitar is sort of rare, and Registeel is even rarer. Which leaves Blissey, really. This means Latias will very, very often snag a kill in the game, and may even sweep.

    Show Hide

    Moveset Explanation
    I picked the Calm Mind set as it is the most effective way to decimate Kyogre. Ice Beams don’t hurt her a whole lot and is easily recoverable, unless they have Life Orb (where they just put themselves into Thunder kill range). Speaking of Thunder, I picked it to hit Steels and Lugia. Despite sunlight, Kyogre is common enough to make up for that.

    Choice Explanation
    Latias is chosen over Palkia here because of her ability to Calm Mind, Recover, and because she is faster. Palkia struggles to fight off Calm Mind Kyogre and the inability to Recover (and being hit by the grounded entry hazards…) make it quite unreliable. She holds the team against Mixed Palkia as well, which apparently is something the rest of the Kyogre checks struggle to do. Being faster than Garchomp is invaluable as well.

    Latias is picked over Latios for her better bulk. This is important because it allows her to hold against Kyogre easier as they may pack Ice Beam. I mean seriously, Latios gets 2HKOed by Specs Ogre’s Surf with SR, as well as 2HKOed by Scarfed Water Spout. Furthermore, her extra defense allows her to survive priority moves better – she can survive a +2 Life Orb ExtremeSpeed from Jolly Lucario after two Stealth Rock damages (unless it rolls max damage or something).

    The Revenger
    Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
    Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Iron Head
    - Ice Punch
    - U-turn
    - Trick

    General Info
    The glue…kind of I guess. I don’t really like to Scarf Jirachi, since it has a lot of potential on doing other things, but due to the presence of Darkrai, Mewtwo, Rayquaza, and Lati@s, I am obligated to Scarf this. Turns out, Jirachi is a pretty good Scarfer. Scarfrachi’s huge drawback is still the fact that it doesn’t do a lot of damage due to its average Attack stat and fairly weak attacks, and thus often relies on super effective hits or the extremely cheap Ironflinch to deal good damage. However, its Steel/Psychic typing, reasonable bulk, and somewhat precise moveset more than makes up for this setback. Following the theme of this team, Jirachi is somewhat rare as well.

    Show Hide

    Moveset Explanation
    Iron Head is for the extremely cheap Ironflinch “technique” thanks to Serene Grace. Although it is by no means reliable, it’s a decent weapon when I’m desperate, and Jirachi can often pull through (while probably aggravating the opponent >=)). Ice Punch nails Rayquaza and Garchomp – Jirachi is one of the best Rayquaza checks in the game by outrunning both DD and SDRay and resisting ExtremeSpeed and Dragon Claw. It can also 2HKO the Lati@s and has a 20% chance to freeze (which is unfortunately cancelled out by Groudon’s sunlight…). U-turn is interesting for mind games, dents stuff like Mewtwo and MOST IMPORTANTLY DARKRAI, and abuses the entry hazards if I predict that they will switch out. Trick is mostly a desperation or endgame situation sort of thing – it punishes BP Mew pretty badly if I can predict it. What sets Jirachi apart from other Scarfers is that unless Wobbuffet comes into Ice Punch, Jirachi can break free of its grasps.

    I will mention Darkrai once more because it’s an annoying Pokemon. It resists Shadow Sneak and has STAB Dark Pulse which limits my revenging capabilities. To defeat Darkrai, I usually have a Pokemon sent to sleep, switch in Jirachi, U-turn out to the Sleeping Pokemon and let it die to Darkrai, then send Jirachi back in to pick off the remaining HP (unless it’s so low that Shadow Sneak can pick it off, which happens if Darkrai has Life Orb). Entry hazards prevent Darkrai from coming back in the second time around to Sleep another mon. I will only attempt an Ironflinch in desperate situations or when I know it will put Darkrai’s HP into Shadow Sneak kill range.

    You know, ScarfKitsunoh would fit so well over Scarf Jirachi here……


    Team Building Process
    This is slightly different from the other Team Building processes as the team is built as a result of previous teams. As you see, I’m not a fan of making teams from scratch, especially at this point of the metagame where thousands of teams have been created, with many being successful.

    [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    [Groudon] [Kyogre] [Scarf Palkia] [Forretress] [Blissey] [Giratina-O]
    First, I take out my stall team. But then, HGSS came along, and added Brave bird onto Ho-oh. I wanted to try that out so….


    [Groudon] [Ho-oh] [Scarf Palkia] [Forretress] [Blissey] [Giratina-O]
    Excellent. This version of the team successfully snagged me a 1919 on the Uber Leaderboard, but then people began to prepare for Ho-oh a lot…when Mixed Giratina-O came out it sealed the deal for this team because it made it extremely difficult for the team to Spin. I gave up stalling because I thought it would be impossible, and this playstyle shift couldn’t have come at a worse time – it was during the BotW against mind!

    [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG]/[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [Deoxys-S] [Wobbuffet] [Palkia/Latios] [Mewtwo] [Giratina-O] [Lucario]
    Yeah, I used august’s team henry at this time period, and saw how devastating Latios is. I often swapped between Latios and Palkia here to test which one is better. I think Latios is better though because it is faster than Mixed Palkia. Regardless, this team is great, but is extremely unstable IMO. Darkrai and TauntCM Mewtwo weren’t friendly to this team, and lead Giratina-O messed up the team because I can’t play around it by double switching due to the immense ghost weakness in the team. Furthermore, Thunder began to hax me and Dragons weren’t friendly either. However, henry made we want to make and use a team with Latios/Latias. Anyways, I moved back to stall.

    I looked around and found only one alternative to Ho-oh – one that can stop both TauntWoW Mewtwo and Mixed Giratina-O at the same time, as well as being able to harass Stall….

    [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    [Groudon] [Heatran] [Scarf Palkia] [Forretress] [Blissey] [Giratina-O]
    Still to this very day, this is my stall team. A bit Darkrai weak though, because it is almost entirely reliant on Palkia to stop it, but it does well otherwise. However, during this time period I grew bored of stalling things. Luckily, Ace Matador and august were kind enough to give me a team which kept the focus on Heatran =).


    [Deoxys-S] [Groudon] [Scarf Palkia] [Giratina-O] [Heatran] [Scizor]
    This team is seriously excellent – I tore up through the leaderboard quite quickly. It had entry hazards, an anti metagame Pokemon, two priority users, and an all purpose checker to things. This team also helped me in tripe’s Smogon Superstars I: Quarterfinals/Semifinals/Finals. Overall, I was very pleased with the team. However, it is not without its flaws…

    The team lacked a reliable way to take down Lati@s, and Heatran doesn’t like taking too much abuse with no recovery. Furthermore, reachzero has demonstrated to me more than once that lead Rayquaza decimates the team. Grr….


    [Deoxys-S] [Groudon] [Scarf Palkia] [Giratina-O] [Heatran] [Jirachi]
    Yes, Jirachi. It covered up Lati@s more reliably and gave Heatran Wish support. However, the Ground weakness is a bit uncomfortable…Not to mention this was when Theorymon started to spam Wobbuffet + Dugtrio on ladder -_-, and even worse, this team is Flygon weak -______________________-.
    [Deoxys-S] [Kyogre] [Latios] [Jirachi] [Giratina-O] [Mewtwo]
    Yeah uhh….this team was Thunder weak. MOVING ALONG….


    [Deoxys-S] [Groudon] [Scarf Palkia] [Giratina-O] [TauntWoW Mewtwo] [Jirachi]
    Only used this for a very short amount of time, but without Heatran the team kept on falling apart to powerful attackers. Mewtwo didn’t quite destroy things quickly enough so…


    [Deoxys-S] [Groudon] [Scarf Palkia] [Giratina-O] [Darkrai] [Jirachi]
    Okay so Darkrai didn’t really cover up the Ground weakness, but it gave the team some Speed and helped against Kyogre to an extent….However I found the team a bit frail and relying on Jirachi to absorb all of your Dragon hits is asking for death….I went back to Heatran


    [Deoxys-S] [Groudon] [Scarf Palkia] [Giratina-O] [Heatran] [Jirachi]
    …and Kyogre is annoying. August’s Omastar + Forretress + Kyogre team was able to smash through this team because Palkia can not handle Kyogre due to poison damage. Furthermore, since the Kyogre had Ice Beam, Giratina-O struggled against it. Ace Matador also displayed this to me in a completely different match (and I used a different team too), reminding me how devastating toxic spikes + Rest Kyogre is. I decided that I must get a Latias because Palkia is being unreliable and kept getting its butt kicked by Wobbuffet -_-.

    So I tried stuffing Latias over Palkia, but then I realized I would need a certain something that could cover up Mewtwo, Rayquaza, opposing Lati@s, and Darkrai at the same time. Scizor can’t do this because it’s slow and relied on Bullet Punch a little too much…and is 4x weak to Fire….ugh. ScarfScizor doesn’t outrun Mewtwo and Darkrai either -_-.

    But wait, what if I Scarf Jirachi!??

    I immediately realized the Darkrai weakness, but hmm….Jirachi can cover that up with U-turn….

    I was pretty reluctant to Scarf Jirachi too, because I’d rather abuse paraflinch and Wish. But meh, this is the only choice I have…

    [Deoxys-S] [Heatran] [ Giratina-O] [Scarf Jirachi] [Latias] [Groudon]
    And there we go, the final team! It combined my desires of using Heatran and Latias ^_^.

    johnXkid: For team henry, and the Heatran team, and helping me discover how weak the team is to Kyogre
    Ace Matador: For pretty much the same reasons as august. And for supporting me during the tour :D
    People on the ladder: for being my test subjects
    Theorymon: For attempting to abuse my ground weakness -____-. Also, Theorymon helped me nitpick this RMT
    Reachzero: For discovering my leadRay weakness.
    Vashta: His “Welcome Home” RMT provided competition, and I ensured that this RMT would be longer than his!! Oh wait, why does that get him in here? GO HOME VASHTA!
    GEC: Such a sexy cute boy, putting him in the credits because his Lead Delibird owns my whole team :D
    (he put himself in the credits -_-)
    Pokesho and klnothincomin for the amazing sprites
    Fireburn: For the story ^_^.
    locopoke: For finding the Smeargle Studio pics (and in this, credits also go to whoever made then =)). Oh and for suggesting Forretress.
    - Nopie: For the Deoxys-S sprite
    - danilyu/Scepticallistic: For the Groudon sprite
    - thebattleax/Wizwum: For the Latias sprite
    Stellar - For inspiring Theorymon to use TrickScarf Deoxys-S, who then inspired me to use it
    ium likes this.
  2. Jibaku

    Jibaku Who let marco in here????
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    Dec 13, 2005
    Threat list:
    Taken from the Uber Threat list (which is incomplete), with a few of my own additions.
    Black indicates minor threat
    Blue indicates a somewhat mild threat
    Red indicates a high level threat

    Top Threats:
    Top threats are, as the name implies, a listing of the most threatening Pokemon in the Uber metagame.For those of you who might think differently, no I don’t mean it in a sense that they are top threats against my team

    [​IMG]Kyogre : Latias is one of the best counters to this thing in the game. Giratina-O + Groudon can help in certain situations as well

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    *Calm Mind versions: “Cro”Ogre (I don’t really like using Cro because Cromat didn’t make it -__-) is completely decimated by Latias. As backup, Giratina-O can hurt it while the sunlight is out, as Surf doesn’t do a whole lot and it only takes a single critical hit from Dragon Claw to incapacitate it. The offensive variants (SubCM/CM3Attack) are solely handled by Latias. Calm Mind/Roar is a bit of a pain but Giratina-O can force it to rest and then Heatran can Roar it away.

    *Scarfogre / SpecsOgre: Latias once more, with the Steel types swapping into Ice Beam if needed. ScarfOgre is significantly easier to handle because it’s quite weak. Specsogre on the other hand is a pain if I don’t get rid of it quickly, being able to 2HKO Latias with Ice Beam. Giratina-O can chop off Modest SpecsOgres at 50% with Dragon Claw. Finally, as this team lays entry hazards quickly, it won’t get a whole lot of opportunity to switch in. Even vs Heatran, who can Roar it away if I can predict Kyogre correctly.

    *Thunder Wave lead: Deoxys-S gets two Spikes against it, unless I am unlucky…Latias then comes in and hurts it badly, although getting paralyzed in the process. However, the dent left by Latias should leave Kyogre extremely weakened and thus giving Groudon control of the weather.

    [​IMG]Groudon: A little bit tricky. Click the [Show] button. I basically rely on Giratina-O and my own Groudon, but unfortunately that's not too entirely reliable but meh.

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    *Stealth Rock variants: These usually lead, and Deoxys-S can set up two layers worth of Spikes against it. Then Groudon can come in, set up SR, then Roar it away. Latias and Giratina-O are immune to Earthquake and can punish them with their special Dragon attacks.

    *Rock Polish: Giratina-O and my own Groudon, really. Giratina-O is an excellent check, surviving LO DClaw even at 75% and punishing it with Draco Meteor + Shadow Sneak (if it somehow survived the Draco Meteor, after entry hazard damage and life orb recoil and whatnot). My own Groudon can Roar it away, or destroy it with Earthquake if its health is low enough (recall that each Earthquake does ~35% to RPdon. Two EQs + two Life orb recoils does 90% so at worst both Groudons die in the process. Don’t worry – their Earthquake can’t 2HKO my Groudon).

    *Swords Dance / RPSD : This one’s a big issue. I usually have Groudon Roar it away but it nearly dies in the process =(. However, entry hazards puts a large toll on that Groudon which makes it easier to take down the next time it comes in. RPSD (Rock Polish Swords Dance, or “Double Dance”) is handled the same way I guessss…..oh if Deoxys-S still has his Scarf he can Trick it and lock the monster into an Earthquake where my two floating Dragons can take care of it, while the Steels can remove it if it uses Dragon Claw.

    *Paradancer: Groudon and Giratina-O. Thunder Wave is annoying for Giratina-O though, but then again we’re talking about a freaking Groudon. Of course it will be annoying in general!

    Choice Band: Hey this set still exists you know, and it hits like a truck…Anyways, Groudon, Giratina-O, Latias, and even the Steels on the predicted move. Nothing else to say.

    [​IMG]Rayquaza: Mostly Jirachi, due to its Speed and Ice Punch. Groudon smashes physical versions as well

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    *Swords Dance: Groudon can survive an Attack (as long as it is not Waterfall) and KO back with Stone Edge. Jirachi is faster and resists ExtremeSpeed, and puts it out of its misery with Ice Punch. If for some reason the Swords Dance Rayquaza is Adamant (which sort of sucks), Giratina-O outruns it and kills it...If it doesn’t have Earthquake, Heatran has a field day =)

    *Dragon Dance: See above, minus Giratina-O.

    *Mixed Attacker: Heatran walls them unless they have Brick Break. Latias and Jirachi can outrun and OHKO. Groudon easily survives Life Orb Draco Meteor and OHKOes back with Stone Edge, after SR and Life Orb damage, if needed.

    *Choice Band: Again, this set exists. Groudon, Steels, Latias and Giratina-O for Earthquake, etc.

    [​IMG]Dialga: Heatran is generally a good counter to Dialga. Groudon provides heatran with the needed sunlight to take it down and can also super effectively hit Dialga with Earthquake

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    *Choice Scarf: Heatran is resistant to the Dragon-type attacks, immune to Fire Blast, and only fears Thunder (which might get nerfed by sunlight), and easily 2HKOes with Flamethrower. Jirachi acts like some back up but it is to be noted that Dialga does more damage to Jirachi with its NVE Dragon Pulse than what Jirachi can do back to it. However, Jirachi can Ironflinch lol. Anyways, Giratina-O and Latias can comfortably take on the non Dragon moves, and Groudon defeats it one on one, generally.

    *Choice Specs: Okay this might be an issue because it hits really really hard. However, it can be taken in the same way, and Latias is faster which means she can pick off weakened ones as well.

    *Bulk Up: Groudon and Heatran both work together as a team to take this down. BU Dialga does not like eating Earthquakes and Heatran can Taunt/Roar it, and Flamethrower if needed.

    *Bulk Up Mixed: The moveset is Bulk Up/Dragon Claw/Fire Blast/Draco Meteor. Heatran absolutely eats it up, being resistant to all of the attacks and bypassing Bulk Up’s Defense boosts via Flamethrower

    *Choice Band:
    Okay I have a few options here. Groudon destroys it if it stays away from Outrage, and Heatran clears it while it's stuck on Outrage. Furthermore, it's slow, so Latias can pick off a weakened one. Jirachi may also be able to take a Dragon attack or two, but unfortunately fails to hurt it back barring Ironflinch

    *Mixed: Heatran is usually resistant to the entire moveset, and severely dents Dialga with Flamethrower. However, Brick Break may be a bit bothersome. Groudon can help in a pinch, surviving Life Orb Draco Meteor and denting it extremely hard with Earthquake. It will also outrun slower variants.

    [​IMG]Palkia: This one requires a bit of playing around. Heatran, Groudon, and Latias work together to stop it.

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    *Choice Scarf: See: Dialga, section Choice Scarf. It is the same thing except Jirachi speedties instead of winning so Ironflinch is almost impossible. Since Palkia does not resist Stealth Rock and Shadow Sneak, it is easier to take down. Although Heatran hates Surf, it can switch in quite well under sunlight. In return, Heatran does well over 40% with Dragon Pulse.

    *Mixed: This one is annoying because it can dent Heatran very much with Aqua Tail/Surf. Latias does a pretty good job of checking it, however, and Groudon defeats physically based mix variants one on one.

    [​IMG]Giratina-O: Heatran, mostly. Latias aids in knocking out some variants as well.

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    *Mixed: Heatran is generally a safe counter, unless it has Earthquake. However, Heatran can’t infinitely absorb its hits because Draco Meteor and Outrage can dent it hard. Also, Latias beats it one on one =). My own Giratina-O can help in emergencies, though I’m 1 point faster than not Giratina-O which means it’s not too reliable.

    *SubCM: Heatran once more. Aura Sphere sort of bites though, and someone might die. Groudon can Roar it away, Latias can beat it one on one or if it switches into Sub/Aura Sphere.

    *CMRestTalk: Heatran again, and Latias again. My own Giratina-O can also aid by 2HKOing with Dragon Claw, but it will lose one on one because Dragon Pulse will OHKO it back…but it still helps

    *Physical Attacker: Okay this can be annoying because it can Sub on a predicted switch out and Earthquake Heatran. Latias, Groudon and my own Giratina-O should keep it down, however.

    [​IMG]Darkrai: Ugh…click [SHOW]
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    *Nasty Plot: “I will mention Darkrai once more because it’s an annoying Pokemon. It resists Shadow Sneak and has STAB Dark Pulse which limits my revenging capabilities. To defeat Darkrai, I usually have a Pokemon sent to sleep, switch in Jirachi, U-turn out to the Sleeping Pokemon and let it die to Darkrai, then send Jirachi back in to pick off the remaining HP (unless it’s so low that Shadow Sneak can pick it off, which happens if Darkrai has Life Orb). Entry hazards prevent Darkrai from coming back in the second time around to Sleep another mon. I will only attempt an Ironflinch in desperate situations or when I know it will put Darkrai’s HP into Shadow Sneak kill range.” Aside from this, Heatran can handle mono-Dark Pulse ones effectively.

    *Swords Dance: Groudon doesn’t even mind a Swords Danced, Life orbed Sucker Punch and can decimate it back with Earthquake. Heatran survives a +2 Life Orb Brick Break, resists Sucker Punch (if they have Focus Punch), and blasts it with Flamethrower.

    [​IMG]Mewtwo: Freaking unpredictable, but Jirachi + Giratina-O handles most variants. Heatran handles Taunt/WoW too.

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    *4 Attack Life Orb: Giratina-O beats it one on one with Shadow Sneak, while Jirachi can help too by either Ironflinching or U-turning to Giratina-O (I hope they don’t catch me with Ice Beam though!).

    *Taunt Calm Mind: Jirachi, being resistant to Ice Beam and taking ~41% from Aura Sphere, can come in without too much of a hassle. It can then Ironflinch or U-turn, depending on Mewtwo’s health. Giratina-O can pick it off at 50% using Shadow Sneak afterwards.

    * Taunt / Will-o-Wisp: eheheheh….Heatran loves getting the Flash Fire boost from this. Jirachi can Trick it a Choice Scarf and Latias can attempt to paralyze it with Thunder, if needed lol.
    *Dual Screen Selfdestruct: See Mew

    *Lead: Okay lead Mewtwo has two variants – the first variant is Choice scarf Mewtwo. To defeat this, I can see that Mewtwo is faster than Deoxys-S. It will Shadow Ball, so after I lay down one layer of Spikes I switch to Groudon and set up Stealth Rock. For even safer measures I send in Heatran who takes absolutely laughable damage, and then Deoxys-S double switches back in, hoping that Mewtwo would flee at the sight of Heatran. If Mewtwo Tricks, I get my second layer of Spikes and now Jirachi is faster than it.

    *Lead #2: This is locopoke’s “all out attacker” lead which attempts to decimate foes from the beginning of the battle with strong coverage. I would get my two layers of Spikes with Deoxys-S, and then use Giratina-O to 2HKO it with Shadow Sneak. The reason I don’t want to send Jirachi out on this, is that in the battle against tyler in the tour I lost thanks to Flamethrower, which incapacitated my Darkrai check as well.

    I’m aware that Mewtwo probably has a lot of other sets, but these are all the relevant sets as of now.

    [​IMG]Ho-oh: Heatran and Groudon. Also takes 50% from SR
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    *Standard: With Stealth Rock up on the field it has trouble swapping in. Heatran can Taunt/Roar those without Earthquake – if I Taunt one at 50% and it has a Life Orb and no Earthquake, consider it dead. Groudon is generally faster and OHKOes with Stone Edge. The same thing with the other sets really, so to save time I am not mentioning them. VERY STRONG POKEMON INDEED THOUGH.

    [​IMG]Latias / Latios: Jirachi + Giratina-O. A little bit tricky, though, due to their insane power.
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    *Calm Mind: Jirachi resists Dragon Pulse and 2HKOes with Ice Punch, dents with U-turn (hope they don’t see this and use Recover/Dragon Pulse…), and can IRONFLINCH. Giratina-O can pick off at 50% with Shadow Sneak! Oh and for some reason they use HP Fire, my own Latias is faster and wins against them. Heatran also harasses them via Toxic if I go with that route, since they seem to enjoy swapping in on it.
    *All out Attacker: See above. Heatran helps take the hits too, and Dragon Pulse / Toxic hurts them a bit. Latias will probably shrug it off due to Recover, however, but Latios generally doesn’t have Recover on the all out attacker so it gets worn down.

    *Dual Screen Memento (Latios): Umm Heatran/Deoxys-S can Taunt it hahahahahaha. No, really.

    Theorymon wanted me to mention Scarf Latios -_-

    [​IMG]Garchomp: Latias, Jirachi, Groudon, Giratina-O, depending on sets. You know what’s odd? Garchomp is easier for the team to handle than Flygon, because it takes Spikes damage and Groudon can hurt it with Earthquake.
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    *Choice Scarf: Groudon is a “safe” switch in to whatever it does, while Latias/Giratina-O can switch into Earthquake and Jirachi/Heatran can switch into Dragon Claw/Outrage. In return, Groudon dents Garchomp with Earthquake, Latias and Giratina-O can OHKO with their respective Dragon moves, and Jirachi/Heatran both pack and will utilize their super effective moves against it. Also, Giratina-O can survive Outrage at full health, and it’s funny when that happens because your opponent will think you haxed them since tina-o might survive with like 1% HP, when in reality the chances of Outrage OHKOing is pretty small

    *Choice Band: Powerful, but handled in the same way. Latias is faster and OHKOes with Dragon Pulse =)

    *Swords Dance Haban Berry: Groudon for insurance on first sight, but Jirachi can nail it with Ice Punch. The former can survive a Swords Danced Attack and Roar it away, while the latter outright murders it. Jirachi must be wary of Earthquake, however, but it can comfortably switch in in anything else. Also, “who uses Yache Garchomp” lol.

    * SubSalac: Okay, Groudon can Roar it way as it subs, and Giratina-O can pick it off at low health. This probably won’t go anywhere.

    [​IMG]Shaymin-S: Heatran, Jirachi, Latias, Giratina-O
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    *SubSeeder: Heatran can Roar it away, unless it decides to be cheap and flinches it to death with Air Slash =(. Anyways, if it Subs it basically loses 50% of its HP (25% from Sub, phazed, and then another 25% from SR as it comes back in). Jirachi outruns it and smites it with Ice Punch, or Ironflinch it if I must troll it to satisfy me.

    *Choice Scarf/Specs: Prediction prediction blah blah. See my description for Deoxys-S in the team for leads. 4/6 of the team resist Grass, and two resist Flying, and the other two are immune to Ground.

    *Life Orb: Not too hard, mainly because it can’t abuse flinching with Life Orb damage tolling it. Giratina-O can swat it with repeated Shadow Sneaks (3HKOes thanks to Life Orb damage). Jirachi is faster and kills it with Ice Punch.

    [​IMG]Mew: Uhm…………..[SHOW]
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    *Lead: See: Deoxys-S in the team

    *Baton Pass: I must predict carefully here. Jirachi can end it before it starts via Tricking Mew. Furthermore, entry hazards make it tougher for the recipient to survive. Groudon can Roar a +2Atk/+2Speed Groudon away and survives an assault from a +2 Dialga as well. If Mew becomes a large issue I can speed up Heatran to outrun it to the Taunt…

    *Getting past the Dual Screeners (Mewtwo, Bronzong, Cresselia, Uxie, Latios, Deoxys-S): – This is a bit tricky – I can predict the Selfdestruct/Explosion from the former two, and either sacrifice Latias or send Jirachi right in. If I do speed up Heatran to deal with Mew, I can switch back and forth between Jirachi and Heatran so they can’t really try and outpredict me. Cresselia and Uxie are Taunted by Heatran. Latias can set up on Cresselia as well. Deoxys-S however, is by far the most annoying Dual Screener due to the fact that it gets Spikes, which makes predicting the Mew switch in a lot harder =(.

    [​IMG]Kingdra: I have the sun….
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    *Standard Uber Dragon Dancer: GROUDON shuts off sunlight and takes lol from Waterfall and breaks it apart with Earthquake. It can take a Draco Meteor if it needs to. Once in sunlight, Kingdra loses to every member of the team one on one. In the case where I can’t get sunlight up though, Latias can hopefully lock Kingdra into Outrage so Heatran can pick it off. Not being immune to entry hazards, having no resistance to Shadow Sneak and holding Life Orb which saps away at its health, Kingdra doesn’t get far.

    Draco Meteors HURT! luckily, entry hazards + Life Orb break it down quickly, and it doesn't have a spectacular defense either so if it does manage to kill Groudon the first time it swaps in it's probably not going to sweep on the second time it comes in, even in rain (Shadow Sneak). Of course, under sunlight, Jirachi is semi comfortable at taking it down...

    [​IMG]Wobbuffet: WOOOOBAAAA

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    *Oh no it’s Wobbuffet!: Well, Giratina-O’s physical attacks can not be Countered, and Heatran can easily abuse it with Taunt/Roar. It also has troubles trapping Jirachi due to its many methods of escaping. Anyways, as a trapper you can’t really counter this thing…but for the length of the rmt....Wynaut?

    [​IMG]Deoxys-S: As a lead, they are crippled by my own Deoxys-S' Choice Scarf to an extent. See the Lead Explanation section on Deoxys-S for more info.


    Medium Threats: These threats are generally not as common as the ones in the top tier list, and/or are generally not as threatening. There are a few exceptions to this, namely Scizor and Deoxys-A, who are used more than some of the stuff in the top threat list.

    [​IMG]Scizor: Groudon, Giratina-O, and Heatran handle all sets
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    *Choice Bander: Hmm, Scizor will fail to significantly hurt Heatran with U-turn or Bullet Punch, and often backfires the whole “wear counters down with combination of SR + U-turn” thing because entry hazards will also take a toll of it. Furthermore, since this team focuses on stacking these up a bit, Scizor will be very hard pressed to perform this maneuver and will end up dying first. Groudon too can absorb Scizor’s attacks with relative ease, and not being weak to Superpower arguably makes it a safer switch in. Giratina-O doesn’t mind taking a U-turn (and is also immune to Spikes/Toxic Spikes, and Superpower) as well. All three can annihilate Scizor with their attacks: Flamethrower in Heatran’s case, Hidden Power Fire for Giratina-O, and Earthquake in Groudon’s case.

    *Swords Dance: Heatran’s quad resistance to Bullet Punch helps tremendously as it can virtually stop even a +6 Life Orb Scizor. Groudon too, with its immense Defense, can stop SD Scizor by 2HKOing it with Earthquake. Finally, Giratina-O will be able to survive a +2 Life orb Bullet Punch after taking two rounds of Stealth Rock damage, and deliver a KO with Hidden Power Fire.

    *Ubers Trapper: Heatran is literally the best counter for it in the game, and does not fear a Superpower from this. Furthermore, Uber Trapper Scizor has issues switching into Thunder from Latias, so its utility is cut a little bit short over there.

    [​IMG]Lucario: Tricky…Groudon and Giratina-O are my two main checks. Latias in pinch situations.

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    *Swords Dance: Groudon survives +2 Close Combat with ease and OHKOes with Earthquake. Giratina-O defeats Adamant Lucario via HP Fire and Latias can survive a Jolly +2 Life Orb ExtremeSpeed and retaliate with Thunder / Dragon Pulse. Lucario’s Inner Focus means Jirachi can’t Ironflinch it though =(. Anyways, Lucario is a bit annoying

    *Lead: Spikes with Deoxys-S, switch out to Groudon, SR, Roar to hopefully bypass Counter. Hoping it doesn’t have Copycat…

    Since it's not getting any attack boosts it's much less of an issue. Groudon and Giratina-O both comfortably take him on, barring crits...

    [​IMG]Tyranitar: Groudon and Jirachi, mainly. Tyranitar is mostly notorious for being able to get rid of Latias via Pursuit though. When paired with Kyogre, this becomes extremely annoying. So I might actually reconsider Grass Knot on Latias.
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    *Lead: I will have Deoxys-S use Spikes and die to Crunch. Then, Groudon is sent in and sets up SR. If it has Ice Beam I switch to Jirachi and Ironflinch/U-turn.

    *Dragon Dance/Choice Band: Grouped together because Jirachi and Groudon both handle them. Groudon shrugs off pretty much anything DDTar throws at it can OHKOes with Earthquake, whereas Jirachi outruns even +2 Tyranitar and significantly dents it with Iron Head, causing the possible flinch or even a KO.

    *MixTar?: Thankfully doesn't live very long because it has less bulk than the other sets (unless it's, you know, Mixed bulky Tar, but then it's slower than Groudon), but it can actually dent stuff with correct prediction. Nevertheless, Groudon and Jirachi still smashes it, but boosted Fire Blasts may be an issue. tbh Mixtar is pretty vague because you could just slap on Fire Blast on its moveset and call it Mixtar, but whatever I guess, lol.

    Atticus go home

    [​IMG]Metagross: Groudon, Heatran, Giratina-O
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    *Choice Band/Scarf: Prediction. Earthquakes can be avoided via the Levitators, while Heatran can switch into CBed Meteor Mash. Giratina-O and Groudon both beat Metagross one on one, though the former requires sunlight to do such. Trick might be a bit bothersome, though

    *Life Orb: Same as above, really, except it can switch moves around for less power and 10% damage per attack.

    *Mixed: Okay unless your name is Theorymon I wouldn’t be seeing this…anyways, Heatran and Giratina-O do a fantastic job in stopping it, the former if it doesn’t have Earthquake. Groudon can survive a Life Orb Grass Knot and retaliate with Earthquake

    *Agility: Hmm? Groudon and Giratina-O absolutely massacres it and if for some reason it is Adamant and not Jolly Jirachi can Trick a Scarf onto it and let Heatran/Latias rip it apart, should a situation come where both Groudon and Giratina-O are dead.

    *Dual Screen:
    It can sort of mess up Groudon if it's Jolly, which is annoying. Heatran can at least destroy it though (unless it has Earthquake)

    [​IMG]Deoxys-A: For leads, see the Deoxys-S section.
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    *Life Orbed Attacker: This is actually not that hard to switch into despite its absurd power. Jirachi is more than capable of surviving anything thrown at it, is faster, and OHKOes the humanoid wet paper bag with U-turn or Iron Head (I prefer the latter as it punishes their switch ins). Giratina-O too can survive its attacks and OHKO back with Shadow Sneak. Without Ice Punch, Latias survives whatever is thrown at her, barring a crit -_-, and OHKOes with Dragon Pulse, and same goes for Groudon if it doesn’t have Grass Knot, though it needs to be at full health to survive Life Orb Ice Beam iirc.

    [​IMG]Salamence: This is actually trickier than Rayquaza. Why, 100 base Speed :(. Anyways, [SHOW], or look at Rayquaza.
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    *Dragon Dancer: Okay so apparently having base 100 Speed makes a lot of difference here =(. Groudon tears it apart, Jirachi can speedtie -_-, and that’s really it I guess. Other option I can do is sacrifice something to lock it into Outrage, and then send in my Steels to destroy it.

    *Mixed Dragon Dancer: Finally some breathing room! Heatran walls it due to resistance to Draco meteor, Outrage and immunity to Fire Blast. If it has Earthquake over Dragon Dance, Latias and Jirachi can revenge kill it.

    [​IMG]Heatran: Hey I made my team around this you didn’t think I didn’t prepare for it did you? Strangely, Heatran is a good Heatran counter…
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    *Taunt/Roar: This is generally handled by my own Heatran, who outruns most of them and can mess them up with it. Groudon defeats it one on one and Latias can probably scare it away with Thunder…lol. It’s a bit tricky though.

    *TormentTran: My Heatran says hi! I get Flash Fire boost and it can do absolutely nothing against me eheheheheheh. Groudon wins one on one too

    *Rest/Talk: My own Heatran, and maybe Latias depending on the situation. Groudon too can help, but must be careful of Lava Plume to due burn

    *SpecsTran: This thing hits like a nuke, literally. Luckily…my own Heatran can absorb the absurdly powerful Fire attacks (lol), and Dragon Pulse, and Latias/Giratina-O can take on Earth Power (Giratina-O managed to catch Atticus’ Specstran on the EXPLOSION as well ahahahahaha). Scarftran is handled the same way.

    *Life orb Heatran: You don’t see this at all but I’m mentioning it anyways due to the fact that Theorymon might be testing this. Anyways, Latias handles this, and possibly forces it to explode, which Giratina-O might catch on. Kind of tricky though.

    [​IMG]Manaphy: Latias says hi
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    *Tail Glow/Everything else:….Latias beats all variants, unless it’s some weird Knock Off/U-turn/Toxic variant or whatever, lol. For cavemens, Latias is faster than Manaphy, easily takes on Ice Beams with her wonderful Special Defense, and can nearly OHKO it with Thunder. It can Calm Mind too to ensure that random stuff like Calm Mind/Rest Manaphy won’t win. Groudon can deprive it of rain too, and Jirachi can either attempt an Ironflinch (unfortunately, it is resisted) or Trick it. The former can eventually force Manaphy to Rest, and there Giratina-O will pick it off.

    [​IMG]Jirachi: BAN JIRACHI BAN JIRACHI BAN JIRACHI!!! Luckily, this team has prepared for this insane cheater. Come in, Heatran!
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    *U-turn / Toxic / Protect / Wish: Heatran is immune to Toxic, quad resistant to U-turn, can Taunt and is probably faster. Groudon wins one on one with Earthquake.

    *“Iborachi”: Okay these names have got to stop -_-. For the reference, the set is Iron Head / Fire Punch / Body Slam / Wish. Heatran eats this too and might snag a Flash Fire boost. Aside from that Groudon can probably beat it unless it is unlucky, and Giratina-O is immune to Body Slam and can HP Fire it repeatedly while it has no Protect to help it Wish. The only problem I see here is if Jirachi is faster…

    *Mix Jirachi??: Yeah it got Draco Meteor. Expect something along the lines of Draco Meteor/Fire Punch/Grass Knot/Iron Head. Okay, in that case Latias and Heatran both eat it up. Latias gives no flying pancakes about getting hit by SE, Expert Belt Draco Meteor because her Special defense is high enough to comfortably take it and Recover it off, and nothing else in the set poses a threat to her really. Heatran resists everything and does not care at all. It can probably beat Jirachi by spamming Dragon Pulse too. If Jirachi has Thunder it might annoy Latias with paralysis though (and of course....Ironflinchh). Oh and finally Groudon can take a Grass Knot and KO with Earthquake if it has to

    *Scarfrachi: Yeah, Heatran. With leftovers Iron Head does lol damage and Heatran will probably survive all of Jirachi’s Iron Heads if it gets flinched 24 times in a row or something. Oh and Giratina-O is immune to Trick =).

    Defensive: This section will list the defensive threats in the metagame, and I’m sure you all with some form of intelligence will know what I mean. Keep in mind that some of the stuff I mentioned here are offensive stuff (e.g. CM Offensive Lugia), but these Pokemon are placed here because they are generally portrayed as walls.

    [​IMG]Blissey:This one is actually a bit tricky.[SHOW]
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    Wish / Protect / Toxic / Seismic Toss a.k.a Standard: Okay I need entry hazards. Deoxys-S provides entry hazards quite effectively. Since Blissey is commonly seen on Stall teams, Forretress is a common partner for Blissey, and thus, it can spin away my hazards, but lead Forretresses get crippled by Trick and Giratina-O can handle those that aren't leads. Further along, I generally force Blissey out by Roaring it with Groudon, threatening to Trick/Iron Head with Jirachi (which I usually swap to Heatran afterwards to catch whatever they’re sending in. Speaking of Heatran, Roar/Taunt can annoy Blissey greatly. Heatran can Taunt then move to Giratina-O to dispatch of Blissey with Dragon Claw. In the end games, this is my method of getting rid of Blissey, as well as Tricking it Choice Scarf via Jirachi. If for some reason Blissey doesn’t have an Attack (probably Stealth Rock > SToss), or Flamethrower (Gen. Empoleon), Heatran completely defeats her. Cutting things short, I try to prevent Bliss from coming in as much as possible

    *Calm Mind Blissey: I usually send in Groudon and spam Earthquake on it or something and drain its Softboiled PP that way, or Roar it away. Since it has no Protect, Jirachi can threaten it easier, and Heatran + Giratina-O combo still works as a last resort, but Tina-O does take a bit from Ice Beam. Even more last resort, Latias 50/50es with CMBliss. Blissey probably has <50% chance to smash through Latias because a CH +6 Thunder from it won’t kill Latias while a CH +6 Thunder from Latias probably destroys it…

    *Seismic Toss/Softboiled/Toxic/Whatever: See: the previous two =).

    [​IMG]Forretress: I’ve mentioned Forretress a lot in here. Yes, it must die. Recall that 4/6 of the team can hurt it badly or knock it out, and 4/6 of the team are immune to Toxic Spikes.

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    *Standard: Lead Forretress, as mentioned before, will be crippled badly by Trick. If it's not leading, Giratina-O can spinblock and destroy. Not to mention, it can only safely switch into Jirachi (though it can gamble vs Latias in sunlight). Heatran will absolutely fry Forretress with Flamethrower. Did I mention that 4/6 of the team are immune to Toxic Spikes (with one being a suicide lead)?

    [​IMG]Lugia: Once again, a little bit tricky. Heatran is the main Pokemon to deal with this

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    *“The Great Wall”: Okay it’s not going to get past Heatran. Ice Beam what? Taunt, Flamethrower, kill, or Roar. In fact, Lugia’s Ice Beam is pretty weak that I often send in Groudon because it can easily get SR while taking ~30% from Ice Beam…Aside from Heatran, Latias can Thunder it, and Jirachi can Trick it. Since this team is pretty anti entry hazard on its own it might also have troubles racking up entry hazard damage. That said it handles Giratina-O pretty well so it can cause some headaches. Oh and Heatran can Toxic it too.

    *Offensive Calm Mind: Theorymon’s newest set: Calm Mind / Aeroblast / Earth Power / Roost @ Life Orb, which strays from Lugia’s general focus in walling things, and instead it uses the lack of Flying resistance in the Uber metagame and surprise to pummel its common enemies. Anyways, Latias has chortles upon seeing this, walling Aeroblast like it is just your everyday wind and proceeds to disintegrate Lugia through the combination of Calm Mind and Thunder. If Latias dies, my back up plan is to Trick Lugia with Jirachi and pretty much call it a day lol. Giratina-O in general can give Offensive Lugia problems due to Shadow Sneak, which results in a weird stall war between a Recovery move and a 48 PP priority move. Dragon Claw is sometimes thrown in there to mess things up further. It’s pretty hard to describe though, but offensive Lugia absolutely hates facing this. Also, if it crits….

    *Defensive Calm Mind: For those of you who live in caves, it is Calm Mind/Thunder Wave/Ice Beam/Roost. I can usually bypass this by sending in Heatran to phaze it away in the early game. Of course, there will come a point where I can’t phaze anymore, so instead Heatran can Taunt it so it is forced to waste its precious Ice Beam PP on something bulky and sporting a quad resistance to it. Taunt also helps against the CM/Ice Beam/Whirlwind variant. Jirachi can make everyone’s lives a lot easier by Tricking Lugia, and Latias can CMwar in emergencies, and Thunder 2HKOes Lugia. Sunlight messes this up a bit though. Of course, if Tran has Trick this is much easier.

    *Choice Specs: Specs Aeroblast can hurt, but since I have two flying resists I don’t care. I can even let Heatran take the Specs too should I not want to send Giratina-O in on the Trick.

    [​IMG]Giratina: The inferior Giratina forme…Heatran and Latias handles pretty much all variants.

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    *“The Great Wall… again”: Wow / Rest / Sleep Talk / Attack. Utterly stomped on by Heatran and its immunity to Fire and resistance to Dragon and even Ghost. Taunt will in so many ways wreck this beast it’s not even funny. Hurt? Can’t Rest! Try to phaze me? DENIED! Also, Giratina-A takes damage from Spikes, which makes it significantly easier to beat than Giratina-O. Jirachi can Trick it if it must, Latias defeats it one on one etc.

    *Calm Mind: Again, Heatran. This time, Giratina is slower so I can Taunt it, Roar it, or Dragon Pulse it into oblivion. (I hope it doesn’t have Earth Power...). Latias can set up alongside it, and murder it. Jirachi can Trick… too bad it’s not immune to Trick. Pre- Calm Mind, my own Giratina-O can hurt it with Draco Meteor.

    The choice sets see little use, but they aren’t hard to handle. Except that it might catch Heatran with Earthquake -_-

    [​IMG]Skarmory: See: Forretress… kind of
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    *Standard: Okay, so Skarmory has two places it can switch in: Groudon, and Jirachi. The rest can hurt it badly. Deoxys-S won’t mind Taunting it and then Spiking heh, Heatran murders it with Flamethrower. I can even Taunt Skarmory too without fear of anything except some random Mud Slap or whatever -_-. Latias murders it with Thunder, and Giratina-O can 2HKO with HP Fire.

    [​IMG]Cresselia: Uhh okay…[SHOW]
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    *“The Great Wall… Edition 3”: Repeating HEATRAN. This time around, it has no Pressure or Whirlwind, so it gets abused a tad easier. Groudon can set up Stealth Rock on her with ease too, and Jirachi can Trick if it must be done

    *Lunar Dancer: Heatran can Taunt this so it won’t get either he second Screen down or Lunar Dance. Latias can set up comfortably on this too, bypassing the Light Screen with boosted attacks.

    [​IMG]BROnzong: I capitalized the BRO because it’s a good, yet underrated Pokemon. Locopoke, Theorymon, Fabbles and Ace Matador (the self proclaimed #1 Bronzong fan) can attest to its effectiveness =). Anyways, Heatran and Giratina-O, with sunlight from Groudon.

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    *Standard…set???: What is Bronzong’s standard set anyways? Okay so I basically send out Heatran and murder it with Flamethrower. Please don’t have Earthquake. Giratina-O can defeat it one on one if Heatran falls, Jirachi checks it by Tricking it….Yeah okay Bronzong is actually a bit of a nuisance here. Also, it’s immune to Spikes and resists Stealth Rock =(.

    [​IMG]Deoxys-D: Underrated Uber IMO. But this one is actually legitimately annoying so [SHOW]

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    *Standard Spiker: Unlike the two previous Spikes, Deoxys-D can switch into Latias (kind of, it needs Blissey as a partner), and Giratina-O, and set up Spikes. It does not get decimated as easily as Skarm and Forretress so it might cause some pain. Heatran can go for the usual Taunt/Roar routine but Knock off hurts it. Jirachi can Trick in extreme emergency situations, but otherwise Deoxys-D doesn’t mind too much absorbing the Trick as it gets more Spikes this way. However, Jirachi is usually faster after the Trick so Ironflinch time!

    *Agility / Toxic: Defeated too easily by my two Steel types. They can’t really hurt Deoxys-D though, but they can switch around, attack a little, and then it will be the one stalled out.

    [​IMG]Registeel: Sturdy underrated piece of metal. Torn apart by Groudon though, as well as Heatran.

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    *Standard: Groudon is the best counter in the game, being immune to Thunder Wave and having STAB EQ to easily dispatch of it. Ice Punch does like nothing to its magnificent base 140 Defense and 100 HP, and Explosion doesn’t hurt a lot as well. Further along that, Heatran can Taunt to prevent Thunder Wave, and vaporize the walking tin can robot thingy with Flamethrower. That’s pretty much it though because everything else risks a Thunder Wave.


    Obscure: The final part of the threat list contains a long list of Pokemon that are viable in the Uber metagame, but are rarely seen, hence “obscure”. By no means should you underestimate these Pokemon, though. In the right hands they can prove to be devastating. And truth to be told, my team can’t handle all of the Pokemon listed here.

    [​IMG]Ludicolo: twash’s favorite Pokemon…right? Anyways, Heatran and Jirachi can smash this, with the help of Groudon of course. Latias also beats them one on one unless for some reason they have Toxic...
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    *Leech Seed: A little bit annoying since it can replenish its health at a surprising rate. If it doesn’t have Surf, Heatran can Taunt it and watch it do pitiful damage with Grass Knot. With Groudon’s sunlight support, it can also take on Surfs with relative ease (they do ~25%), while Flamethrower can injure Ludicolo severely. Latias defeats Ludicolo one on one, while Jirachi can put a bit of dent with U-turn but once again it can heal pretty quickly

    *Rain Attacker: Mentioning this because twash has used this before (Grass Knot / Hydro Pump / Ice Beam / Synthesis, with the final move giving Ludicolo some function in sunlight). Since it has STAB Grass Knot Groudon has a lot of trouble coming in, but under sunlight Jirachi can easily nail it. Heatran can hurt it too with Flamethrower, and Giratina-O defeats it one on one. Most importantly, Latias can switch in to virtually anything and stat up and kill.

    Ninjask: Eh? Lol. If you seriously don't know how the team handles Jask, click [SHOW]

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    *Baton Pass: This team’s coverage against Ninjask is pretty overkill IMO. Groudon can lay down Stealth Rock and ROAR it away. Should Wobbuffet + Ninjask come in to snatch some free boosts, it is torn apart by the mighty Heatran. Furthermore, Giratina-O can significantly hurt Ninjask with Shadow Sneak. Deoxys-S can Taunt Ninjask if it has to. Oh and Ninjask’s pathetic X-Scissor can’t even hurt the former three, so it would almost certainly not sweep the team lol. If you pass to something stupid like Cradily or Octillery -_-, Jirachi will eat up the former and Latias destroys the latter. So, unlike Mew, this isn’t going –anywhere-.

    [​IMG]Infernape: An interesting Pokemon, to say the least. Latias and Giratina-O use their resistances, bulk, and high powered moves to take advantage of Infernape's frail defenses and destroy it.

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    *Lead: Hmm… okay. I’ll probably stay in and take the Fake Out, then Spikes as it kills me. If it kills Deoxys-S with Overheat, Groudon can freely go in and set up Stealth Rock. Furthermore, Latias and Giratina-O both completely wipe out Infernape, with their resistances (immunity to Close Combat in Giratina-O’s case) to its STAB attacks, and Latias is faster than Infernape so….it’s dead. If said lead Infernape does not have Fake Out, it will probably U-turn to something than can smack Deoxys-S to prevent it from putting up a second layer. However, double switching usually solves this.

    *Swords Dancer: This is easily handled by Latias and Giratina-O, and the former is faster and can probably OHKO Infernape after SR + Spikes or something…Giratina-O can take on a Swords Danced Flare Blitz as well, as long as it is not Blazed or something (by that time Giratina-O would pick it off with Shadow Sneak anyways…)

    *Choice Band: Predictions, predictions. Latias + Giratina-O are once again the main ones here, but U-turn is a bit annoying for the former. Giratina-O resists U-turn anyways so like it cares lol. Heatran can come into CBed Flare Blitz/U-turn, and Groudon can come into the rest.

    *Mixed: I’m not sure if people use Mix Infernape in the Uber metagame, but once again, Latias and Giratina-O.

    [​IMG]Deoxys: The normal forme Deoxys, who surprisingly has uses in the Uber metagame with its decent power and its higher defense than Deoxys-A, allowing it to survive two ExtremeSpeeds from Deoxys-S.
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    *Lead: Shadow Ball, switch to Jirachi on the ExtremeSpeed, then U-turn away its last HP or catch something else on the switch in that allows Deoxys-S to set up Spikes or Groudon to set up Stealth Rock.

    [​IMG]Weavile: This thing can actually put a dent on teams, but is haunted by its weaknesses to entry hazards and weak BP moves…Jirachi pretty much knocks this thing down, along with entry hazards.

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    *Swords Dancer / Life Orb 4 Attacks: Jirachi is the best counter this team can offer, flinching it to death or dealing massive damage with U-turn. Other than that, I generally never try to let it set up. Giratina-O, Groudon, and Heatran are all capable of beating it one on one.

    *Lead: Sacrifice Deoxys-S, basically, but I get one layer down. Then Groudon can come in, get the second layer, then Jirachi can scare Weavile away. If it doesn’t have Low Kick/Brick Break, Heatran is pleased to snack on it.

    *Choice Bander: Preeedictions. Groudon and Heatran comfortably take Night Slashes, while Jirachi takes everything else and beats it. It’s actually kind of annoying though because Latias could end up getting Pursuited.

    [​IMG]Celebi: Umm so what DOES this thing use in Ubers anyways? Theorymon told me “support based set” but that’s freaking unclear >=(. [SHOW]

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    “Support Based Set”: Okay so Thunder Wave is a bit annoying, since Groudon is obviously not going to absorb it. Heatran tears it up unless it has Earth Power, and not even the most specially defensive Celebi can eat Flamethrower in the sun and survive with a good margin of health. Jirachi can damage it greatly with U-turn, or Trick if I must. Latias generally beats Celebi one on one, but it really hates paralysis =(. If it leads, Deoxys-S can get a good amount of Spikes against it unless it U-turns to something like Scizor, where the whole “Deoxys-S vs Scizor” thing happens again.

    “Baton Passer”: Again, I don’t know if anyone uses the Baton Passer, but Heatran runs over this with Roar, obviously. Unless it has Earth Power. Latias can probably CM alongside CMPass celebi and attempt to decimate whatever swaps in.....

    [​IMG]Heracross: It all seemed like it was yesterday…in memory of kd24 who hasn’t been here for a while now =(. Giratina-O can abuse its resistance/immunity and high physical bulk to effectively counter it.

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    *Choice Scarf: Giratina-O is immune to Close Combat and resists Megahorn, and is capable of taking (two) Night Slashes. In return, Heracross scurries in fear of Dragon Claw or Hidden Power Fire. Jirachi outruns Heracross and 2HKOes with Iron Head, while Groudon can comfortably soak its attacks and hurt it with Stone Edge. Heatran’s quad resistance to Megahorn helps tremendously as well.

    *Choice Band: Pretty much the same as the previous ones, except Giratina-O must tread carefully because CB Night Slash hurts. Latias outruns this now so expect it to be picked off at ~69% or so. Heatran doesn't really care about Megahorn being boosted, either

    *Swords Dancer: Can actually be annoying since it outruns Giratina-O and SDed LO Night Slash probably OHKOes it after SR or something. Jirachi can obviously attempt an Ironflinch to stop it. Latias is faster and kills it, Groudon can phaze it away if needed, but it will hurt like a freak X_X.

    EDIT: he's BAAAACK!
    [​IMG]Mamoswine: You usually don’t see this outside of a lead. Groudon, and Giratina-O, with Jirachi as aid
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    *Lead: Well, I can either sacrifice Deoxys-S or attempt a double switch here. Now the question is, would it be worth it for Groudon to switch into an Ice Shard to preserve the possibility of getting Spikes later in the game? Or keeping Deoxys-S alive so it can be a sacrifice when needed? Anyways, Giratina-O is immune to Endeavor and Earthquake, and can dispatch of it with Draco Meteor (Hidden Power Fire in the sun) + Shadow Sneak . Jirachi can attempt an Ironflinch once more.

    [​IMG]Jumpluff: A sweet user I would think. She’s nice to me in IRC and helps me out with some problems =). Oh wait, whoops…anyways Jumpluff is a pretty underrated mon and can cause some headaches due to its insane speed (how does it move that fast anyways…), and Subseeding prowess. However, its insane Speed is its downfall against this team, to an extent. Jirachi, go!

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    *Subseeder Supreme: (PS Shaymin-S IMO Subseeds more annoyingly due to being able to hurt stuff!). Jirachi, being slower than Jumpluff in the sun (which will be up 99% of the time unless for some reason they have a Kyogre…), can switch in on the Substitute. Jumpluff will Leech Seed Jirachi, only to be U-turned out and wrecking its Substitute, allowing Heatran to come in and devastate. Or pretty much anything else, really. Sorry it’s not your day today.

    [​IMG]Shiftry: This can actually be problematic. Thankfully, it’s rare [SHOW]

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    *Nasty Plotter:Okay this is why I actually attack Wobbuffets instead of trying to do something else to them. Shiftry won’t set up that way, and thus it will pose no threat pretty much. Heatran can easily rip it apart if it doesn’t have Focus Blast (or you know, I can hope for a miss). Jirachi can survive +2 life orb Dark Pulse if it didn’t take SR damage (and it also has a decent chance of surviving after), and OHKOes with U-turn. I don’t have anything else really, and it resists Shadow Sneak which is annoying =(

    *Swords Dancer: -Possibly- even more dangerous than the Plotter, due to increased chance of OHKOing Jirachi with Sucker Punch and having a 100% accurate 120 BP move to combat Heatran with . Actually, I can beat it by using Trick lol. If it doesn’t have Sucker Punch then Jirachi can win easily. Being a Grass type means Groudon can’t help me here….

    [​IMG]Exeggutor: Nowhere as threatening as Shiftry, thankfully. Jirachi, Heatran (barring Low Kick), Giratina-O, and Latias should eliminate it
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    *Sun Abuse: Sleep Powder is annoying so I'll probably just let Heatran or Groudon take it. From there, Jirachi, Latias, and Giratina-O all defeat it one on one - Jirachi is actually faster than Chlorophylled Exeggutor and can really hurt it with U-turn, if not KOing it. Giratina-O's bulk allows it to absorb attacks with ease (barring HP ice, which means it gets walled by Jirachi), and spell death to it with HP Fire, or pick off a weakened one with Shadow Sneak. Latias has no fear of HP Ice and outright wipes it, but Explosion is annoying. However, with two Steels and a Ghost, the move itself hopefully won't be a problem.

    [​IMG] Tangrowth: This isn't as annoying as Shiftry either, but it is more annoying than Exeggutor. [SHOW]
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    Swords Dance: This can be sort of annoying if it comes in on Groudon. It can put one of my Pokémon to Sleep and set up a Swords Dance. unfortunately, Heatran can't stop it because of Earthquake. Thankfully, Giratina-O can survive anything it has, and maul it with Draco Meteor or Hidden Power Fire. In emergencies, Jirachi can Trick it to stop a sweep. Latias can survive a +2 Power Whip, but it does a massive 76.8% - 90.4%. If for any reason it has Payback, it will often OHKO Latias after Stealth Rock damage after a Swords Dance.

    [​IMG]Gengar: Eheheheh. Cool mon. Best check to Rayquaza pretty much, barring actually switching on an attack. Giratina-O and Jirachi both crush it without large troubles I suppose. Problem is I dunno what sets it really uses so…[SHOW]
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    *Choice Scarf: Heatran resists Shadow Ball and HP Fire, Groudon takes on Thunder, Latias and Giratina-O resist Focus Blast, Thunder, and HP Fire. Jirachi defeats it one on one because Shadow Ball won’t 2HKO it while Iron Head kills it back. Finally, Giratina-O OHKOes Gengar with Shadow Sneak after SR

    *Life Orb: Jirachi is faster now! And it won’t hesitate to incapacitate it with Iron Head, while Shadow ball won’t come close to OHKOing. If it has Hidden Power Fire, Latias will outrun it and defeat it with Calm Mind and Dragon Pulse. Shadow Ball will fail to 2HKO Groudon, barring an SDef drop, while Stone Edge 2HKOes back. Giratina-O can also survive one attack, and OHKO with Shadow Sneak. Heatran too can survive an attack, and OHKO with Flamethrower. Overall, I am pretty content with my coverage against the phantom.

    [​IMG]Kabutops: A rain dance sweeper who actually doesn’t get stopped by Dialga! Fortunately for me that means nothing to this team. Anyways. Groudon all the way!

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    *Swords Dancer: Groudon all day, surviving SD Waterfall without much of a hassle barring a stupid flinch, and OHKOing with Earthquake. In sunlight, it is outsped by Latias and Giratina-O, who are more than happy to eat it. If Groudon dies though I might have problems (unless it remains Sunny). In the sun, Jirachi resists both Waterfall and Stone Edge, takes rofl damage from Low Kick, and can proceed to tear apart with Iron Heads.

    [​IMG]Abomasnow: So apparently Gen said this Pokemon sucks =(. Yet, tito has successfully hailstalled in Ubers, and Theorymon is doing an Ubers analysis on it. Oh well. Abomasnow is a weird Pokemon in general, so click [SHOW]

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    *SubSeeder: it will usually lead, so I will lay down Spikes with Deoxys-S, then attempt to Fire Punch it so I can have control over the weather later on in the game better. Or I can go for two Spikes. Depends on my mood. Hail stall usually carries a Forretress or something so I might actually catch that on the switch too lol. Later on in the game, Heatran and its quad resist to Blizzard helps tremendously, though Protect is annoying. Taunt will shut it down and Flamethrower will overkill it. Jirachi can disrupt it with U-turn or murder it with Iron Head. Groudon can change the weather in my favor, but must tread carefully. Finally, Giratina-O has Hidden Power Fire to deal some good damage to it.

    *“Anti lead”: I dunno what the set is, but I think it’s along the lines of Blizzard / Ice Shard / Wood Hammer / something here. Gonna just sack Deoxys-S before bad things happen (though I will get one layer in), or I could try double switching to Heatran I guess. The rest is handled by Giratina-O, Jirachi, and Heatran.

    [​IMG]Uxie: Dual Screen Memento. That’s the only reason to use Uxie in Ubers. And it’s used sometimes over Latios because it’s not weak to Dragon and Ice and has overall more bulk. Anyways, Heatran says hi

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    *Dual Screen Memento: Haven’t we gone over this already? Heatran can Taunt it to prevent it from pulling off the Memento (or a second Screen).

    [​IMG]Magnezone: Okay so my team has two Steels. Magnezone can be a bit annoying -_-. Luckily, the only Pokemon in great danger here is Jirachi, and the rest of the team can semi-comfortably handle Zone. Well okay maybe Heatran might experience issues if it's at low health, but only vs Scarf Magnezone...in rain.

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    *Choice Scarf (this includes Magneton, btw): traps and kills Jirachi, which is my team’s revenger =(. Thankfully, Jirachi loves to abuse U-turn so I can often escape out of this. Heatran can take a Thunder(bolt) and incinerate the magnet with Flamethrower, while Groudon takes an HP Ice, and smashes with Earthquake. Latias can basically set up on this so Magnezone will have to resort to Explosion, which Giratina-O easily absorbs. Oh, and Giratina-O can defeat Magnezone with Hidden Power Fire in the sun as well, while absorbing its attacks without a whole lot of issues.

    *Sub/Magnet Rise: I can Roar it away with Groudon lol, or destroy it completely with Heatran, Latias, and Giratina-O.

    *Sub/Charge Beam: It won’t get a lot of boosts in because Jirachi does not have Leftovers for Mangezone to stall out so it can get more Charge Beams in. Groudon and Heatran can Roar away a +2 Magnezone, and Latias just laughs and sets up Calm Mind.

    [​IMG]Dugtrio: Apparently Wobbtrio is annoying stuff. Thanks a lot for trying to popularize what was supposed to be a joke test recommendation, Theorymon T_T. As it is a trapper though, you can't really counter this
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    *“Standard”: Standard Dugtrio in the Uber metagame is not Choice Band or 4 Attack Life Orb. Instead, it is a Toxic staller (wth?) lol. Anyways, it’s Toxic / Sub / EQ / Sucker Punch with either Life Orb or Soft Sand. The biggest annoyance here is that Dugtrio can kill Heatran and possibly Groudon (through Wobba’s Encore). Of course, being a trapper means you can’t counter it -_-. Anyways, Jirachi outruns it and can really hurt it with Iron Head or Ice Punch (reason I'm mentioning Iron Head is because Wobbuffet, a common Dugtrio partner, kills you if you use Ice Punch), while Latias and Giratina-O flat out defeat it (Latias takes a bit from Sucker Punch though…).

    [​IMG]Cloyster: I can’t 2HKO it with Shadow Ball T;_;[SHOW]
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    *Mixed Lead: Tricked by Deoxys-S, and I can set up Spikes as long as it isn't Spinning (and if it is Spinning I get free switches to everything). Ice Beam is like a 4HKO lol, so getting the layers down should be easy enough.
    *Physical Lead: Trick, Spikes, die. Payback is annoying but at least Groudon can swap in afterwards and get his Stealth Rock down.

    [​IMG]Froslass: See: Deoxys-S. No, I didn’t mean go there to look for a section where I mentioned it, because I didn’t. I literally meant, see: Deoxys-S. Or Deoxys-A. It’s handled in like the same way.

    [​IMG]Qwilfish: Cool spiky fish. Insane movepool, surprisingly has some use the Uber metagame. [SHOW]

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    *Lead: Toxic Spikes won’t faze me. I can Spikes, switch to Groudon on the Aqua Jet, SR, attack, then switch back to Deoxys-S (or maybe Giratina-O), to take the possible Explosion. If it has Destiny Bond it’s annoying, though, as will it if it has Spikes instead of Toxic Spikes =(.
    *Rain Dance Attacker: Is walled by Groudon easily, who causes it to dehydrate in burning sunlight and can only pitifully attempt to destroy the land behemoth with Waterfall (which, as I stated on Kabutops’ section, won’t come close to OHKOing Groudon). Oh and Giratina-O resists Waterfall + Poison Jab, and is immune to the mighty Explosion. On a more comedic side I can send in Groudon and swap to tina-o to take the boosted Waterfall or LOL EXPLOSION. Payback can hurt Giratina-o though.

    [​IMG]Hariyama: A weird lead, but it works sort of. [SHOW]

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    *Lead (Fake Out / Close Combat / Payback / Bullet Punch @ Toxic Orb): I will sacrifice Deoxys-S for this – I get one layer down, then send in Groudon, SR as it CCs. If it’s brave enough to stay in it will probably die to Earthquake. Or I can switch to Jirachi on the predicted switch, and hopefully get the upper hand through a fast U-turn. Giratina-O can also decimate this thing with Draco Meteor, but Payback really hurts lol.

    [​IMG]Shedinja: Well, it used to be decent. Now it sucks, but I’m mentioning this anyways because no Uber teams should be left weak to Sheddy. Like with Ninjask, this should be obvious.

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    *Err…Standard?: Okay so if entry hazards + spinblocker isn’t enough to stop it, Heatran is immune to Will-o-Wisp, quad resistant to X-Scissor, takes lol damage from Shadow Sneak, and beats it up with Flamethrower. Groudon sets up SR and Roars it away, Giratina-O wins through Shadow Sneak, lol.

    [​IMG]Parasect: Don’t let anyone fool you, this Pokemon sucks -_-. Sorry Gen, tough love. I’m mentioning this here simply to bash it, not because it’s actually, you know, a threat.
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    *Standard: Okay so Heatran walls it, completely, and I probably don’t mind it taking the Spore anyways. Groudon crushes it with Drought, as well as SE Stone Edge, while Giratina-O has Hidden Power Fire to roast it to a very delicious crisp. Barbecued Parasect is considered a delicacy in some parts of the world, didn’t you know that? Heatran probably won’t even have to switch out against Parasect so it can easily absorb Stun Spore too! Not to mention, Stealth Rock + Spikes puts a toll on its HP as well.

    [​IMG]Quagsire: Somewhat decent, much better than the lame Parasect. Strangely, this team may have troubles against it. Stupid Recover -_- [SHOW].

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    *“Standard”: Okay so if it doesn’t have Earthquake, Heatran smites it, which I think is somewhat ironic. Aside from that though, Groudon can 2HKO with Earthquake (I think). The moveset you’ll see most often is Yawn/Encore/Toxic/Recover or so, and thus Heatran has no problems beating it. Giratina-O too can defeat Quagsire through Draco Meteor and Dragon Claw, but it better do it quickly or else it might succumb to Toxic damage.

    [​IMG]Roserade: Roserade is somewhat a decent Pokemon to use in the Uber metagame. With access to Toxic Spikes and other disruptive moves, as well as the ability to absorb Toxic spikes, and actually dent stuff with STAB Leaf Storm, it gets a mention here. However, I dunno what sets Roserade uses in Ubers soo…[SHOW]
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    *Lead: I can let Deoxys-S take the Sleep while I get my one layer. On another hand I can also Taunt it and then have Heatran absorb the Leaf Storm, then attempt to double switch back to Deoxys-S hoping they'd switch out or something.

    *Leech Seed Toxic Spiker: This was something I used myself at one point – Toxic Spikes / Leech Seed / Grass Knot / either Weather Ball or Protect. Heatran disposes of this easily and my team doesn’t really mind Toxic Spikes.

    [​IMG]Ariados: Mentioning this “just because” [SHOW]

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    *Toxic Spikes lead: Yeah I don’t care about Toxic Spikes due to 4/6 immunity while Deoxys-S and Groudon can set up SR. Deoxys-S survives Bug Bite + SS and can usually lay down two layers of Spikes. Then Groudon comes in and sets up Stealth Rock. Then I attack it and phaze away. Heheheheh.

    [​IMG]Delibird: Yeah uhhh
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    *Lead: So it's supposed to be anti Deoxys-S, right? WRONG! I Trick it with Scarf and set up Spikes all over it. If it uses Rapid Spin I go to Groudon and attempt to lay down SR as it will probably switch out or something out of fear, lol.


    Conclusion: I hope you enjoy this presentation! (lame ending yadah yadah). There is honestly nothing else to say at this point, lol.

    Thanks Fireburn (open)


    Jibaku finishes typing up the last words of his beloved RMT. As he wipes the drool off of his face, he hears a sinister knock on the door. Who would come visit him at 2:34 A.M.? Jibaku tries to remember what time is pizza deliveryman was supposed to be there, but alas, he could not. Jibaku remembered something about his mother telling him not to answer the door this early in the morning, but did he ever follow his mother's advice? I didn't think so either. With absolutely no heed to his or his family's personal safety, he casually sprinted over to the front door and ripped it off of its hinges.

    It was Vashta.

    And he had a gun.

    AND a knife.


    "Vashta???!?!?!" Jibaku stammers. "W-W-What do you...What are you...How did you..."

    "Fool." Vashta says in the most monotone, boring voice you could imagine. "To think you could actually beat me at RMT length...so pitiful."

    Jibaku said nothing, concentrating instead on the gun in Vashta's hand.

    "Jibaku...you weakling..." Vashta continued. "You really are a foolish little imp of a man. Everyone knows that when it comes to RMT length, I am unmatched. I have no equal. And I certainly won't have a little upstart like you..."

    Vashta was then carried away on one of his usual rants, lecturing Jibaku on his foolishness. Although he really wasn't listening, Jibaku had to try his hardest not to fall asleep. He knew that it would mean death if he did so. Thinking fast, he gradually slipped the gun out of Vashta's fingers.

    "And so...heeey." Vashta said. "Give me my gun back." He raised his knife to Jibaku's throat...and then emitted a low cry of discomfort as Jibaku kicked him in the groin.

    "DIE VASHTA!" screamed Jibaku. "You will nev..."

    But before Jibaku could finish, Vashta raised his knife. The tip promptly fell off, and a bullet whizzed out of the hole created and inserted itself into Jibaku's head. He died instantly...but at least he didn't suffer.

    Vashta thought he had won. As he turned to leave, he suddenly shuddered and collasped on the spot. Turns out Jibaku had used Destiny Bond (Courtesy of HGSS) the moment before he died, and it took its toll on Vashta.

    Suddeny, a small green car pulled up into Jibaku's driveway. It was the pizza man. He walked into Jibaku's house...only to notice the dead bodies of Jibaku and Vashta lying in bloody pools on the floor. Screaming like a little girl (Ex. locopoke), he ran into the house for some reason until he tripped over a particularly long carpet fiber in front of Jibaku's computer. As he fell down, his groping fingers hit the Left clicker of the mouse while the pointer happened to be on the "Post" button of the Smogon forums. The RMT popped up...and it was one of the most glorious and beautiful teams the world had ever seen. It was immediately thrown into the archive, and all of Smogon's best Artists drew up a golden statue of Jibaku to post on Smogon's home page, so that anyone would look upon it and see the legacy that good Jibaku had left.

    Vashta, however, was forgotten by the Smogon community. No one spoke his name ever again.

    THE END.
    ium likes this.
  3. 6A9 Ace Matador

    6A9 Ace Matador veni, vidi, vici, VERSACE, VERSACE VERSACE

    Oct 10, 2008
    Probably the most detailed RMT ever. It's an excellent and very successful team which really allows Heatran to shine. I love your Deoxys idea and all the spreads are well thought out. Only thing i'd say is consider using Toxic > something on Groudon since Sub Ho Oh could give you some problems if it's last Pkmn :( Or you could use Rest or stick to Toxic Heatran.

    Thanks for the mention and your help with Ubers too!

  4. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 6, 2009
    this team is just awesome. As ace said, really detailed and stuff. Only thing i'd really consider would be fire punch over trick on jirachi, since it helps deal with random stuff like forry, scizor, luke, sheddy and other thingies. I don't think it's wise to make jirachi lose it's revenge killing ability, cause it then loses a lot of it's usefulness
  5. M Dragon

    M Dragon The north wind
    is a Tournament Directoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Championis the Smogon Tour Season 17 Champion

    Jun 12, 2008
    You could try Superpower > Signal Beam Deoxys, it might help beating Bliss and Darkrai, which give this team trouble.
    I would probably choose Toxic > DP Heatran, and EQ > HP fire Giratina. Toxic helps a lot against things like Lugia, which can annoy your team a lot paralyzing your sweepers and walling Groudon. EQ Giratina will help u beating a heatran like yours, which ironically seems very annoying, specially if it is faster than your own Heatran

    Amazing team and even more amazing RMT. Congrats
  6. Hugendugen

    Hugendugen Noam Chompsky.
    is a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Apr 20, 2009
    Despite the scarf, you could also have Wish on Jirachi, just in case you made a poor prediction (this is Jibaku, what am I talking about?!?!?!?) and Heatran or another member of the team is low on health. Otherwise, I see very little that can make this team any better.

    Straight to the archive!!!
  7. capefeather

    capefeather toot
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Apr 26, 2009
    Epic win. If anyone knows how to play Ubers, it's you. Also the RMT is so detailed I don't think I could come up with a good enough criticism. I've learned quite a bit about Ubers just from reading this RMT. I should really try to find out where/when people talk about this stuff more :P
  8. Chomper The Sharptooth

    Chomper The Sharptooth

    Dec 20, 2009
    I've wanted a reliable Spiking lead to beat regular Deoxys-S for a gravity team, and that lead is perfect. The whole team really is, this has to be the single most beautiful RMT I've ever seen.
  9. Jibaku

    Jibaku Who let marco in here????
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    Dec 13, 2005
    Thanks for the comments guys:

    I've decided to stick onto Toxic for Heatran. The main reason is really, Latias/Latios. They are immune to Spikes and can cause a lot of damage if I let it float around a bit. However, Toxic allows Heatran to check Latias (and since they love to switch in this just gets better), so it has less room to cause havoc. Also, Toxic helps with Lugia and to an extent, Ho-oh.

    As for Fire Punch Jirachi, I have considered it in the past but I really can't put it over Trick. Trick helps me a lot in pinch situations, most notably if Latias gets critted or frozen by Kyogre (which happens a lot...) and messes up BP Mew if I catch it. Fire Punch Jirachi does make it easier for Giratina-O to use Earthquake instead of HP Fire, but the ability to lock things in a pinch is far too useful to give up. The same issue goes with Wish unfortunately (being locked onto a Wish when Wobb switches in makes Jirachi very miserable).

    I am considering Superpower on Deoxys-S atm. The original intent of Signal Beam was to hit Darkrai and Deoxys-S for super effective damage. However, out of the hundreds of battles I've only hit opposing Deoxys-S once, and iirc that was only because the person used some strange Trick SASH Deoxys-S X_X. I am obviously not going to Signal Beam a Deoxys-S lead who just Taunted me after being Tricked a Scarf because Deoxys-S is extremely weak and vulnerable to set ups and Pursuit. I still need to hit Darkrai SE though, so I'll probably move to Superpower.
  10. symphonyx64

    symphonyx64 Private messages are the best way to reach me
    is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion

    Sep 20, 2008
    Very solid team and congratulations on your leaderboard accomplishments! Last night, I actually faced about 3 people using your team haha.

    Anyways, I just have a concern using Heatran as a check to Latias/Latios:

    On my current Uber team, I run Surf on my Latios just for Heatran and it works beautifully.

    Also, its more powerful than Thunder in the rain. However, your Heatran takes a minimum of 98% from Surf in the rain. Thankfully, Surf is a rarity on Latias/Latios in Ubers, but I just want to make you aware that you always run that risk when using Heatran as your check to Latias/Latios.

    Dragon Pulse may be a better option. You can hurt choiced Palkia locked into Special Rend and Garchomp and Latios/Latias switch ins among other things.

    The RMT was a great read as well.
  11. Jibaku

    Jibaku Who let marco in here????
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    Dec 13, 2005
    symphonyx64: I don't intend to switch Heatran directly into Lati@s, Surf or not (unless I know for a fact they can't hurt me). However, I found out they switch into me a lot, and thus Toxic Heatran is a decent bait. Latios and Latias both easily shrug off Dragon Pulse with Recover (which can be taunted, but they can grab a CM before that and hurt heatran badly then Recover when the Taunt is over).

    However I do sometimes miss the ability to take out Rayquaza and Palkia quickly...hmm

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