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Wailord

Discussion in 'Dragonspiral Tower' started by TorchicBlaziken, Dec 18, 2010.

  1. TorchicBlaziken

    TorchicBlaziken

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    #321: Wailord
    The Float Whale Pokémon
    [​IMG]

    Water

    HP: 170
    Attack: 90
    Defense: 45
    Special Attack: 90
    Special Defense: 45
    Speed: 60
    Base Stat Total: 500

    Size Compared To You:

    [​IMG]
    Wailord is the biggest Pokémon of all.

    Abilities:

    Water Veil: Wailord can't be burned.
    Useless because no one will use a burning attack. The only possible use I could see for this is getting a free switch-in on Will-O-Wisp. But, still, it's better than Oblivious.
    Oblivious: Wailord is immune to attraction and Captivate.
    Useless, as Attract and Captivate are never used.

    Hidden Ability:
    Wailmer are available in the Dream World.
    Pressure: When Wailord is hit by an attack (even ally-hitting attacks) the attacker uses 2 PP instead of 1, even if the attack has no effect.
    Way better than the other two abilities. It doesn't lose anything from previous generations; it gets Sleep Talk as an egg move and the only tutor move that was ever viable for it, Selfdestruct, was nerfed. Plus it helps Wailord stall, if you're using it for that. Even if you aren't, it's really handy.

    Pre-evolution with Eviolite:

    #320: Wailmer, the Float Whale Pokémon
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    130/70/35/70/35/60
    Base Stat Total: 400
    Wailmer may seem worth a try due to its higher Def/Sp. Def with Eviolite and still-high HP stat, but you'll find that due to its max possible HP stat being lower than Wailord's minimum, its inability to learn any set-damage moves unlike Dusclops and Chansey, and the fact that it doesn't hit as hard, Wailord will always win in the end. Plus, after all these disadvantages, it can only hold Eviolite.

    Wailord's moves:

    Wailord's level-up moves (open)
    Splash, Growl, Water Gun, Rollout, Whirlpool, Astonish, Water Pulse, Mist, Rest, Brine, Water Spout, Amnesia, Dive, Bounce, Hydro Pump, Heavy Slam

    It doesn't matter when this Pokémon learns the moves because it can just inherit them from a Smeargle. Wailmer has every one of these moves as level-up moves, and does not have any level-up moves that Wailord can't learn by level-up.

    Wailord's Generation IV-exclusive TM/HM moves (open)
    Water Pulse, Secret Power, Brine, Endure, Avalanche, Captivate, Sleep Talk, Natural Gift, Substitute, Whirlpool, Rock Smash

    Wailord's Generation V TM/HM moves (open)
    Roar, Toxic, Hail, Hidden Power, Ice Beam, Blizzard, Hyper Beam, Protect, Rain Dance, Frustration, Earthquake, Return, Double Team, Rock Tomb, Facade, Rest, Attract, Round, Echoed Voice, Scald, Giga Impact, Bulldoze, Swagger, Substitute, Rock Smash, Surf, Strength, Waterfall, Dive

    Wailord's egg moves (open)
    Aqua Ring, Body Slam, Curse, Defense Curl, Double-Edge, Fissure, Sleep Talk, Snore, Swagger*, Thrash, Tickle, Soak, Zen Headbutt

    *In Generation V, the only Pokémon capable of passing down Swagger to a Wailmer is Smeargle.

    Wailord's Generation III tutor moves (open)
    Body Slam, Defense Curl, Double-Edge, Endure, Icy Wind, Mimic, Rollout, Selfdestruct, Sleep Talk, Snore, Substitute, Swagger

    Wailord's Generation IV tutor moves (open)
    Bounce, Dive, Headbutt, Icy Wind, Rollout, Snore


    Movesets:

    Sleep Talk

    Wailord@Leftovers
    Pressure, Calm
    4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
    ~ Rest
    ~ Sleep Talk
    ~ Water Spout / Surf / Scald
    ~ Ice Beam / Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Electric

    Just look at all the hints Game Freak is giving us. Letting it keep Sleep Talk, its enormous HP stat, giving it Water Spout, and Pressure for more efficient stalling... Obviously we should give it a Sleep Talk set! Who needs Water Veil when Wailord can just Rest the burn away, and be immune to burns in its sleep?

    Rest is Wailord's only recovery move, and since so many other Pokémon are stuck choosing between new egg moves/Hidden Abilities and Sleep Talk, Wailord should take advantage of what it's got. Every time Wailord Rests, its Water Spout gets back up to full power. Surf doesn't do as much damage as a full power Water Spout, but it does consistent damage considering that most Pokémon are faster than Wailord. Alternatively, it can use Scald, which does less damage than Surf, but it is still consistent, and also has a chance of burning, which Wailord will appreciate.

    Wailord is Calm so Download Pokémon will get an Attack boost instead of a Special Attack boost.

    This is a slightly modified version of a Sleep Talk set on the D/P analysis.

    [​IMG]

    This is why I can't call it a mini Kyogre.

    Pure Stall

    If you have any other sets to suggest, post them and I might edit them into the OP.

    EDIT: Awesome! This thread is the third thing that comes up if you Google search "Wailord Smogon"!
  2. Morm

    Morm

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    oblivious isn't terrible, it can help as a last ditch effort against a stat upper. That can help a lot because, and this is purely arm waving, wailords tier will have a butterfly dancer or two and he has the HP to be a real dickhole to pokemon trying to do damage. I like the idea of coming in, negating a stat uppers stat uppage and immediately having a massive HP right in their face with a special attack of 95 (again, armwaving, but the tier it lands in may well have that being pretty decent)
  3. TorchicBlaziken

    TorchicBlaziken

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    You are right. The ability you are thinking of isn't useless. But the ability you're thinking of is Unaware, which is different. Oblivious is immune to Attract and Captivate, which are used as much as Ditto in Generation IV.

    Happy unbanning! :toast:
  4. boyofrito

    boyofrito

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    Wailord + Scarf + Water Spout = Mini-Kyogre

    Wailord @Choice Scarf
    Pressure/Water Veil
    28 Atk / 252 SpA / 228 Spe Whatever nature
    -Water Spout
    -Hydro Pump/Surf
    -Ice Beam
    -HP Electric/Grass
  5. breh

    breh ● ︿ ●
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributor

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    @above: but why would you want to use that over burungeru, which is far better?

    Otherwise has anybody considered mono-attacking wailmer with curse? max out SpD and HP; run Waterfall/Roar (or sleep talk) /Rest/Curse I guess. Sort of like a retarded suicune really.

    Maybe a more gimmicky set in Waterlog/Rest/Curse/Body Slam (or similar) I guess?
  6. Morm

    Morm

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    Swing and miss I guess
  7. Azul

    Azul

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    28 Atk EVs for...? Even with Self Destruct, this set doesn't need 28 Atk EVs.
  8. boyofrito

    boyofrito

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    Oops right I just copied Smogon EVs since I suck at them... And self-destruct got nerfed... Whatever
  9. leingodf8

    leingodf8

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    The mini kyogre set is generally done better by blastoise... He gets 18 more base speed, which means he can outspeed a heck of a lot more, and doesn't necessarily NEED to run a speed boosting nature (though its still a good Idea). All wailord has over blastoise... is 5 SpA, a rather paltry amount.

    The rest talk set seems pretty decent, especially with pressure now, boil over should get a mention though. A curse set could be decent, either a mono attacker in the lower tiers (where burungeru and vaporeon won't be) with rest/sleep talk, or an all out curser with waterfall, earthquake, and return or avalanche.
  10. Server_Crash

    Server_Crash

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    I think that either whale's only viable set is the curse rest set listed above. Submersion + Body Slam seems better as the whale can't be walled (at least type-wise). It has the HP and now defense to enjoy wasting their PP while asleep, so it doesn't really need sleep talk.

    Woot, 300 posts!
  11. boyofrito

    boyofrito

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    Actually mini-Kyogre is done best by Octillery.

    Octillery
    + Shell Break Pass
    + Choice Specs
    + Rain
    + STAB
    + 150 Base Power Water Spout
    = 112.2% - 132.1% on Standard WishBliss
  12. Don Honchkrorleone

    Don Honchkrorleone

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    This thing is funny to use:

    Annoyer @Lefttovers
    Impish or Careful
    Pressure
    Evs: Wathever

    - Curse
    - Dive
    - Protect
    - Amnesia / Rest

    Works better with T-Spikes in the field. Pressure in this thing is quite scary. If only it had Recover...
  13. Banryu

    Banryu

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    Sleep Talk is no longer a TM in Gen 5, and thus illegal with Pressure.
  14. breh

    breh ● ︿ ●
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    Read. It's an egg move.

    And no, it's fully compatible with all egg moves (literally every single poke pretty much learned sleep talk in gen 4; thus it's compatible with curse)
  15. Don Honchkrorleone

    Don Honchkrorleone

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    Wailmer can learn Sleep Talk as an egg move in Gen V from Whishmur family (that learns by level), thus being legal.
  16. rxhar

    rxhar

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    On the sleep talk set, I'd suggest 60HP/232Def/216SDef instead. You get a leftovers number in HP (496), an extra point from nature (because 216/4 + 60 * 2 + 36 = 210 ends in 0) in exchange for a negligible bit of bulk.
  17. The Scarecrow

    The Scarecrow

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    I personally love Wailord! With that Obscene HP stat and good offensive stats, giving it max Defenses seems to help it out quite a lot. I will definitely try the RestTalk set.

    Also, I've considered using Wailmer with Evo-Stone and a defensive spread, as his amazing HP and higher Defenses than Wailord (after factoring in Evo-Stone's boost) will allow him to take several strong hits, but of course the lack of offensive power led me to end up mapping out a mere Protect/Sub/Toxic stall set. -___-
    Not the best idea...
  18. Acritter

    Acritter

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    Maybe that Subcursion set would work well on Wailmer. After all, you don't need the greatest stats on earth if you're +6... after taking out the enemy team's serious SpAers, that set could be pretty tough to break. Maybe it would work best with a screener to support.

    I'm seeing this as a potential UU (or NU, depending on where the UU power level ends up being) set. Could actually work.
  19. TorchicBlaziken

    TorchicBlaziken

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    I updated with English names.
  20. LukeHM

    LukeHM

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    CURSELORD
    Ability:Water Veil
    Nature:impish
    EVs:200HP,200 ATK,104 SP.D
    Moveset
    Curse
    Earthquake
    Selfdestruct
    Heavy slam

    Its different and not expected but i'd only use in nu play
  21. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

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    Thats absurd.
  22. JohnWesleyX

    JohnWesleyX

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    StallLord@Leftovers
    252 Hp/ 144 Def/ 112 SpD
    Pressure: Impish
    ~Dive
    ~Aqua Ring
    ~Substitute
    ~Protect/ Toxic/ Bounce

    I tried this set out with Hail and Toxic Spikes up. worked nicely
  23. Phoenix_baby

    Phoenix_baby

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    Ive never seen a good one of these, ive battled a few and they never do anything worth while
    x

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