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Wakanda

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by PROBLEMS, Feb 12, 2013.

  1. PROBLEMS

    PROBLEMS

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2012
    Messages:
    549
    Wakanda

    [youtube]d4VxFjHFcZ8[/youtube]​

    Hey guys, it's Problems bringing you my most recent SPL team. I used it in my Week 5 win vs. Hugendugen, and it's one of my strongest ladder teams. I'm not going to talk much about peaks on the PO Server as they aren't important; however, I easily got 1700 points and Rank 1 on the account called 'Sleaze' in under 100 games. Anyways, after Week 4 of SPL I was in need of a fresh, new team, so I was speaking to Princess Bri. We were listing ideas and came up with this beauty. I showed the structure to Bri and we made the sets and EV's. We were pretty pleased how this came out all together. The idea of the team is 'Balanced Offense'. By getting up hazards early in the game, you weaken everything. Then, by denting holes in the teams with Latias and Giratina-O coupled with my phazing core, you secure a win condition with an end game Terrakion or Arceus sweep.

    p.s. I may lie about some of the EV Spreads.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
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    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Deoxys-S @ Rocky Helmet***alien
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 36 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 216 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Psycho Boost
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    ---

    Deoxys-S. I’ve never been a fan of this Pokemon myself, but its job fits nicely here. I’ve personally always bitched about how I see it on 1/3 of Ubers teams on the PO ladder, but I digress. This man’s job is pretty obvious—set hazards from turn 1 to gain quick and easy hyper offensive momentum. However, not only does it have easy access to hazards, but also the ability to deal with common spinners like Tentacruel, Forretress, and Excadrill with only two coverage moves—Hidden Power [Fire] and Psycho Boost. The EVs are relatively random, but it has enough speed to outpace Scarf Genesect and Palkia. I maximized its damage output with the Special Attack investment. Lastly, the defense EVs make sure Genesect gets a special attack boost so it can’t kill with U-turn if such a problem arises. Rocky Helmet isn’t the most standard item (credit to Princess Bri), but it’s useful for spinning Forretresses. The Custap Berry set has been gaining popularity as of late, and Rocky Helmet in tandem with a timely Hidden Power Fire OHKO's the pest. Residual damage on various physical attackers also comes in handy.
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    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Giratina-O @ Griseous Orb***snake
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 88 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Tail
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Substitute
    - Will-O-Wisp
    ---

    Giratina-O is easily my favourite Ubers Pokemon and is on the majority of my teams because it’s just so viable. I’ve experimented with a ton of sets, but I finally came up with one that is best suited for my team. What you see is the standard 3 attacks set with Will-O-Wisp over Earthquake, which has several benefits to this team. Firstly, it handles Ferrothorn super easily (who would otherwise be a massive threat to this team). Next, it spreads status and helps set up Substitutes on physical attackers, which in turn allows me to spam Dragon Tails and abuse the hazards provided by Deoxys-S. This thing is pretty much guarenteed to cause massive damage for a few turns depending on what your opponent has to break your Substitute or has to outspeed with negative prioirty moves (e.g. Faster Lugia's Whirlwind). Substitute is mainly to prevent status, as many Pokemon try to kill it through Status, commonly Tentacruel and Forretress. It's really easy to get Subs up on things who can't hit it for supereffective. Shadow Sneak is pretty obvious to help me with Ghost-types, Lati@s, and Mewtwo. It's the only type of prioirty on this team. The EV's for this thing are so it can outspeed the common Tentacruel so that I can get a sub up to prevent the Toxic they sometimes carry
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    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Kyogre @ Leftovers***fish
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Roar
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    ---

    I obviously used Kyorge for the Rain, but primarily I chose this set as I liked the idea of it being able to switch into sun's standard Pokemon such as Groudon and Ho-Oh. It can also take random attacks just Rest off the damage. Plus, it shuffles the opponent's team around around when I've got hazards up. The rain also nullifies Fire-type moves to support my Arceus-Steel. On this set, Scald is rather clutch since it can often burn CM Arceus formes and then phaze them out. The EV's are pretty self-explanatory, giving it the most bulk in Defense and HP. It's always good having a Physically-bulky pokemon on your team and this Kyogre takes the role of a Physical glue really well. The only thing which can basically OHKO this set without boosts is a STAB'ed Bolt Strike from Zekrom. Having RestTalk on the set always helps with survivablity issues and often gives you the upper hand in weather wars. This Kyogre is nice to use as sleep bait for opposing Darkrai, so Terrakion can afford to run Toxic.
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    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Latias @ Soul Dew***cat
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 164 HP / 152 SAtk / 192 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Roost
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - Surf
    ---

    Latias is my Kyogre switch-in the majority of the time and is the hard hitter of the team. This set is really underrated--Bri gave me this set a while back and I've used it on a couple of teams as it really puts in work. Latias hits things like a truck. The EV's look pretty random but the speed is there to outspeed non-scarfed Garchomp while the special attack EV's are enough to OHKO Specially Defensive Giratina-A's with Draco Meteor after Stealth Rock. This is important because Giratina can be an annoyance to the team with spreading burns. Nothing else OHKOs it on the team. The rest of the EV's are put in HP for additional bulk. The moveset is pretty standard for this type of set; you have recover and a hard-hitting STAB in Draco Meteor, while the last two moves I tend to change around a bit. Surf is for my Excadrill, Ho-oh, and Forretress problems. It is nice spamming off those rain boosted Surfs without worrying about getting -2 Special Attack. The filler move of choice is Psyshock which helps ensure that I don’t get swept by CM Arceus Fighting. It also catches the odd Tentacruel off guard which thinks it can Rapid Spin. Latias just fits the team so well. It's definitely worth trying this set in the rain.​


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    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Arceus-Steel @ Iron Plate***horse
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 HP / 80 SDef / 176 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Judgment
    - Recover
    - Roar
    ---

    This is the Pokemon I've wanted to sucesfully build a solid team around for a few weeks now, and I finally did it. The Pokemon itself is pretty situational. Against Sun it's really not doing much; however, on the flip-side it completly annhilates Rain teams the majority of the time. It's such a huge threat. Against the majority of rain stall, you can just leave this thing to be your last Pokemon as they can't kill it nor status it with a Toxic. Rain Stall tends to carry no huge hitters that can threaten Arceus-Steel. The speed EV's are so I outspeed stuff like Timid Latias and can move without being under pressure. When in a safe position, I can just simply surprise them by roaring them out while becoming a huge offensive threat. Arceus-Steel is a fantastic pivot. The set itself is pretty standard for a CM sweeper, but the filler being Roar. This is an interesting move that I've seen used a few times, and I've wanted to try it out for a while. It ensures I win the bog-standard CM-in-your-face wars against the people who are praying for crits. It also works with my team's other two phazing pokemon that help rack up entry hazard damage. I've always thought about the synergy this thing has with Gira-O as well and I thought it would work they both cover eachothers weaknesses. Latias works fantastically with Arceus-Steel as well.
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    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf***dog
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Toxic
    - X-Scissor
    ---

    Terrakion is my revenge killer of choice, and it fits this team very well. Terrakion clears the Steel-type Pokemon out of the way for Arceus-Steel and Latias to wreck havok on opposing teams. Terrakion, in my opinion, is one of the best late game cleaners in the current meta. I use Terrakion alot in my teams. I just like the fact it outspeeds the majority of the tier when Scarfed. It's also a great Arceus-Normal check. Terrakion's offensive synergy with Latias is pretty solid as they both counter things that threaten eachother. The EV's for this thing are pretty bog standard. You've got your max speed and attack. The EV's left are dumped into defense so that Genesect doesn't get the attack boost and kill from 100% with Iron Head in a worst case scenario. For moves, you've got your dual STAB's with the filler being X-Scissor to help me with those pesky Psychic-types like Mewtwo and Lati@s when they are weakened, so I don't have to risk missing Stone Edge. The other filler is toxic. I use toxic on the Scarf set as a last ditch attempt to cripple something if I can't hit it hard. If I'm in the position where I know Arceus Ghost is going to wreck me on the switch in since Gira-O and Arceus Ghost are common switches into this thing, it's always nice to land a potential Toxic on them both.
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    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
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    Thanks too:

    Princess Bri - First of all helping with my cancerous and terrible grammar. Most importantly helping me create this actual team and being a great friend etc.

    Gimmick - For helping Bri solve my grammar!

    Blim - For supporting my idea to change Custap Forretress to Deoxy-S and being a chill guy.

    Donkey - For all the sets advice and helping me tests teams.

    #Classiest

    PO FAGS (CTC, Gr8astard, Sadf, Marth, Moet, Liked, Edgar., Cased, Pokeaim and the others!)


    P.S.

    If you're going to use this team on the ladder etc, be sure to leave a luvdisk! Here ya go~

    Importable (open)
    alien (Deoxys-S) @ Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 36 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 216 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Psycho Boost
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    snake (Giratina-O) @ Griseous Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 88 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Tail
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Substitute
    - Will-O-Wisp

    fish (Kyogre) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Roar
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    cat (Latias) (F) @ Soul Dew
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 164 HP / 152 SAtk / 192 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Roost
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - Surf

    horse (Arceus-Steel) @ Iron Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 HP / 80 SDef / 176 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Judgment
    - Recover
    - Roar

    dog (Terrakion) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Toxic
    - X-Scissor
  2. PROBLEMS

    PROBLEMS

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    Messages:
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    Reserved for threat list~
  3. Dice

    Dice what's a god to a nonbeliever
    is a Tutoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

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    As I've used this team several times, Zekrom is easily one of the biggest issues; however Band varients are slower than Latias Draco Meteor OHKO's. It can't spam Outrage since it allows Steeleus to set up on it. You could run Will-o on Steeleus, but then Ghosteus is more problematic. Overall it's a solid team and your grammar is fucking atrocious.
  4. Lord Moet II

    Lord Moet II formerly MOET
    is a Past WCoP Winner

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    I'm not a po fag asshole. Also you should probably use shadow ball > psycho boost so you can hit things like espeon gira and xatu on the switch instead of just tentacruel who gira beats p easily. Very decent team here. Gl with it.
  5. Liked

    Liked

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    In the current Ubers metagame, this team seems rather solid. However, The weather known as sand, together with sand abusers can really put holes in your team. Nice team though, but more importantly - your avatar is a solid 8/10.

    Kudos for the good synergy.

    Luvdisc'd
  6. Smart Kid

    Smart Kid

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    Messages:
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    Arceus Grass could be a bitch to the team if it had perish song or t-wave. other than that looks pretty solid. Also Liked this team demolishes Sand Abusers already, what I would change though it's Giratina's set.

    Giratina-O @ Griseous Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 212 Atk / 252 Def / 44 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Tail
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Earthquake
    - Will-O-Wisp

    Luvdisk'd

    With this set you can take 1 +2 Iron Head from Adamant Life Orb Excadrill after Stealth Rocks and then kill it with Earthquake.
  7. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    This is a sweet team and I really like it; however, there are some issues that stick out. For one, the Zekrom weakness is massive - it switches in easily on Kyogre and Arceus and then proceeds to deck something with Bolt Strike every time it comes in. Giratina-O tends to be slower than Zekrom and Latias is definitely a not a physical tank, so you will struggle to take its hits.

    I don't much see the point in Deoxys-S as your team really isn't super offensive - you seem to focus more on shufflers and slow boosters like Arceus. To that end, Deoxys-S just feels like a waste of a teamslot. I recommend changing Deoxys-S to Ferrothorn:

    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers or Rocky Helmet
    Sassy Nature, 0 IV Speed
    252 HP/48 Atk/208 SDef
    -Stealth Rock
    -Spikes
    -Leech Seed
    -Gyro Ball or Power Whip

    It keeps your reliable hazards while giving you a nice catch-all Zekrom check. Its also a good switch-in to Kyogre sets Latias may not want to take on, such as bulkier sets + those annoying Thunder Wave versions which have the potential to seriously screw with your game plan. Latias is a major part of your offense, and getting her paralyzed would put you into serious trouble. The last two moves are the ones I would use, but it can really be any combination you think is best for your team. Another interesting option is Toxic - it turns Ferrothorn into a Grass Arceus counter (who can be annoying to this team if it has Perish Song) and gives you a way to further upset Ho-Oh, weakening it for the eventual Steelceus sweep.

    I'd also run a few more Speed EVs on Arceus to outrun Tornadus-I. I know he's rare, but its a small change and his Hurricane spamming antics could otherwise give you much trouble.

    That's really the only thing I see, great team!
  8. PROBLEMS

    PROBLEMS

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    @Bri - Zekroms pretty much a prediction which I have to bait certain moves its never much of a problem.. Just needs some thought

    @Moet - That was on my first deox-s version of the team but I just prefers having the was hitting stab just for Tent as I changed Earthquake off Gira-O pretty much a long story but yeh, thanks for the suggestion buddy.

    @Smart Kid - My boy Edgar I've always prefered the sub veritably whilst switching with wilo/eq.. But I've simply got enough stuff to check threats like; Hearran, Tentas anyway. The Arceus Grass is never really a problem, Latias pretty much beats it one on one but Steel doesn't really mind being fully parad by a t-wave.. So it's heh. Thanks though

    @Fireburn - Thanks for the suggestions! It was a solid idea, but the way this team worked and the way I wanted it to I explained in the Intro; 'By first settling down hazards early game quick' with the offensive pressure the team offers and the right switching I normally won't have troubles with Zekrom I just need to figure out what type of veriant/set its running as soon as possible. I've also stated at the beginning these night not be my real Eva/creeps for competitive reasoning.
  9. BKC

    BKC
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis the Smogon Tour Season 16 Championis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion
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    sup probs,

    good team. aside from the zekrom weak, sub exca in rain seems like an issue, since neither deo-s nor gira-o can touch it, and going to any of your other team members will result in it spinning away your hazards. i'd try earthquake over either will-o-wisp or sub on gira-o, as this'll let you actually do something back to exca. it also destroys tentacruel.

    i'd also try custap forretress over deo-s, moving sr over to steelceus. the fast toxic spikes are really good for this team, as you abuse them very well, and they help against zekrom as well as nearly any pain-in-the-ass sweeper. forre's ability to spin is a nice bonus. if you really want to keep cm on steelceus i suppose you could forgo spikes for sr on forre although i don't like that idea as much.

    just some ideas, gl with the team. luvdisc
  10. PROBLEMS

    PROBLEMS

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2012
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    @bkc - I've pretty much explained my process for wilo but I didn't consider the sub excra as its not really thy common and if I put EQ back on Gira I'm also not as sand weak, ill most probs change wilo back to EQ again.

    It's funny because my original version of this team was based around Custap forry but my thought process behind that was using it twice in a row in spl would probably a silly idea and when speaking with my friend Blim we decided deox-s was the better idea, I just isn't want both spikes and rocks on the forry, so deox-s just seemed to fit a lot better.

    Thanks for your suggestions buddy.
  11. Donkey

    Donkey

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    529
    Hello Problems,

    This is probably the best team I have seen you produce. However, I still believe I may have some Solutions for you.

    One Problems is that you lack Taunt or Magic Coat on Deoxys-S. This means that bulky Deoxys-S with Magic Coat can set up on your team very easily. Your only option is to either risk it having superpower and lead with Terrakion to force it to only get 1 layer up, or to lead with Giratina-O and Dragon Tail (since Shadow sneak will not 2hko) to once again force 1 layer. This is not a reliable way to deal with Deoxys-S. A Solution to this would be replacing Psycho Boost with Magic Coat. This way, you will at least have a chance vs opposing Deoxys-S.

    Another Problems, as mentioned by other esteemed team raters, is Scarf Adamant Zekrom. Scarf Adamant Zekrom can 2hko your entire team AND take a Close Combat comfortably. While Roar on Steelceus is nice, I do not think it complements your team or adds enough offensive pressure. This being said, a Solution to your Zekrom weakness would be to replace Roar with Will-O-Wisp on Arceus-Steel. That way, you can threaten Zekrom much more easily.

    Last but not least, if you still decide not to change Roar, you will have Problems with Calm Mind Arceus forms. To completely assure you will not have Problems with these forms you would also need to give your Arceus-Steel max speed. I disagree with Bri's opinion that changing to Will-O-Wisp makes you more Ghost Arceus weak. In fact, Will-O-Wisp will allow chip damage whenever Arceus-Ghost is switched in. If an Arceus-Ghost is brought against Giratina-O, Latias, or Terrakion, it gets 1 free Calm Mind. If it is offensive, your Arceus-Steel will be outsped and 2HKOd by Focus Blast. Physical Defense Kyogre can not hope to Roar out Arceus-Ghost unless it is at max health. Therefore, your only method of beating +1 CM Arceus Ghost is Toxic from Terrakion --- which means you lose your scarfer, and likely 2-3 other pokes while Toxic works. This is not a reliable way to deal with Arceus-Ghost. Will-O-Wisp max speed Arceus-Steel is also not incredibly reliable, but you will at least be able to have a shot at winning the CM war. Arceus-Electric is a similarly large threat, it tears through Arceus-Steel easily with Thunder and your only method of killing it is Toxic from Terrakion.

    That is all.

    Good luck with the team, and I hope have provided Solutions to Problems you were having Problems with, Problems!

    XD


    edit:

    life orb ho-oh rapes
  12. PROBLEMS

    PROBLEMS

    Joined:
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    Donkey - If i saw an opposing Deox-S in the team preview I won't be leading with my own one, I'll simply lead with Gira-O and limit the amount of hazards set to 1 layer.

    The Zekrom problem is heh, its just the one thing that sticks out which I can't help due to the structure of the team. I originally had wilo over roar on steel but I just preferred to use the roar set in practice games etc.

    My ev spreads may differ from this RMT as I've previously said I'm personally comortable enough with how the team is to deal with Ghost/Electric but I'm aware of how threatening they are to this team.

    Thanks man.

    P.S. You're a funny guy!~!
    Donkey likes this.
  13. polop

    polop
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    Tailwind Zekrom using Dragon Claw > Draco Meteor is actually far more dangerous then Choice Scarf Zekrom, but there really isn't a true way to walk around Zekrom without adding WoW to Arceus-Steel. If it gets Tailwind up it outspeeds and OHKOes everything on the team (barring Arceus Steel but Bolt Strike 2HKOes and Judgment does nothing...), but if you can predict correctly for 4 turns its probably not an issue... While this is an issue I am actually against changing Roar to WoW, it opens up a weakness to stall teams, as all those that can bypass Arceus Steel are actually threatening.

    The true issue with this team is the reliance on phazing in lieu of actually using a hard hitting attacker to weaken enemy teams. This makes stuff like Stall Two and Utility Wall Deoxys-D actually dangerous, seeing as they avoid getting OHKOed by all moves you possess and outspeed all mons barring Terrakion (and Arceus Steel for Deo-D but +1 Judgment doesn't exactly do a "lot" either, failing to 2HKO, the pp will eventually be completely stalled out). Terrakion is neutered by Will-O-Wisp from stall two, and X-Scizzors aren't doing over 50% to Deoxys-D, it barely 3HKOes factoring leftovers. Yes you can Toxic but I don't want to go into the cons of being locked into Choiced Toxic. Not to mention this problem is completely bypassed if these mons are paired with Heal Bell support, which they frequent are or if they predict the switch and Taunt OR if they switch out predicting the Toxic. Granted, Deoxys-D will do nothing but set up 3 layers of Spikes and spam Toxic on the team, Stall two on the other hand... I'm not really sure as to how to bypass this issue though. Generally using an offensive Kyogre would fix this but its so crucial to the defensive backbone of the team...

    Regardless, this is a unique team, and I commend you on your performance with it.
    Donkey likes this.
  14. PROBLEMS

    PROBLEMS

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    @Mr.lol - I've changed wilo on Giratina-O to EQ now anyway, I'm still debating the Wilo>Roar on Steelceus like I had before but I just like the advantages i get from roar, seems to work the majority of the time better then Wilo would, its just personal preference.

    I've personally never had a problem with Stall-Two with this team, like it burns and annoys but its never really a huge problem as Kyorge/Latias don't really come off bad against it.

    Thanks for the rate!
  15. gookie

    gookie Adominnustrata
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    agreeing with donkey on the changes for max speed steel arc with WoW, this is also good for extremekiller. LO ho-oh is also a threat (xd donkey) but there's nothing you can do about that, kyogre is your best bet, but it's still 2hko'd by leftovers brave bird after stealth rock so yea. consider calm kyogre + 16 sdef EVs to better handle calm mind arceus after the loss of roar of steelceus as the difference in physical bulk is minimal but the boost in sdef is great.

    i know substitute gira-o is great but outrage w/ 4 attacks + defense, something like 176 atk / 252 def / 84 spe is a good ho-oh lure as outrage kos after SR.

    good luck and pity about the deo-s and ho-oh weaks XD (also zekrom duh)
    Donkey likes this.
  16. PROBLEMS

    PROBLEMS

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    @poppy - you can't really rate a team and be like 'oh that's got a life orb ho-oh weakness' that's nit picking like saying every team without a gastro or Latias is specs Kyorge weak.. Because about 3 things 'wall' life orb ho-oh.

    Also by saying my teams weak to deox-s teams it's pretty much not they will only get up rocks as ill lead with Giratina-O

    Zekroms been explained, Arceus set is pretty much 50/50 depending on how I feel wilo/roar

    My evs for sets I've explained (me wanting to keep real ounces secret, so I have standard evs)

    Thanks for the constructive rate.
  17. gookie

    gookie Adominnustrata
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    i'm pointing out a weakness, not suggesting something unreasonable to fix it. the LO ho-oh weak in particular is pointed out because i was actually thinking about flame charge LO which i forgot to mention xd, as it can lead vs deo-s and use flame charge twice and do Brave Bird: 94.13 - 111.11% to terrak with BB etc etc, kyogre will take upwards of 60% from a BB too.

    gira-o can't deal with deo-s reliably because if you dtail it can come back in later so you're up against sr + spikes most of the time anyway.

    don't be a sarcastic ass lol
    Donkey likes this.
  18. PROBLEMS

    PROBLEMS

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    @poppy - I appreciate your time in the comments but making drastic changes to the team to account for the suggestions you've made would make the team completely different to how I personally want it, not to mention the play style wouldn't be the same.

    Gira shadow sneaks..preventing spikes if they wana preserve to set up later..

    Uhmm.. Thanks.
  19. Donkey

    Donkey

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    Messages:
    529
    Shadow Sneak does not 2hko defensive Deoxys-S. You are forced to Dragon Tail, and hope that the next time Deoxys-S switches in, you have Scarf Terrakion in to finish off Deoxys-S, or Giratina-O in with hazards bringing Deoxys-S into KO range so that Shadow Sneak will KO. Otherwise, defensive Deoxys-S will always get up two hazards while forcing your Deoxys-S to try and set up hazards late game when it may not matter.

    Regarding your Life Orb Ho-oh weakness, yes, LO Ho-Oh and Specs Kyogre are massive threats to most teams, but your only way of dealing with Ho-oh at the moment is sacrificing a pokemon. Poppy is making the point that your team is too weak to life orb ho-oh. It breaks your defensive core since you do not have enough offensive checks to it, and can switch in on 3/6 of your pokemon, 4/6 if you count half health Kyogre, and 5/6 if you count Close Combat locked Terrakion. In sun without Stealth Rocks up, it can even switch in on Latias. You do not need to wall Ho-oh to beat it, which is one of the main reasons why I believe you have phys def Kyogre, you just need to pressure it. One way of doing this is Outrage or Stone Edge on Giratina-O which Poppy suggested - this is not ideal, but if you want to make your team deal with every threat in the metagame well it is necessary. Running will-o-wisp on Arceus-Steel minimizes the need for phys def Kyogre, so you could replace it with sp def Kyogre to have a better chance vs cm Arceus forms.

    If a team doesn't have dedicated check to Specs Kyogre this team is probably not as weak to Specs Kyogre as you are to life orb Ho-Oh, since Kyogre is choiced - it is easier to handle and revenge kill. It also does not have Regenerator to regain health. You cannot make a comparison to Specs Kyogre.
  20. PROBLEMS

    PROBLEMS

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2012
    Messages:
    549
    Donkey - Ty, a more detailed and explained process from someone (finally) in improving my team. My thoughts behind the defensive Deox-s I've personally never seen one or thought of the idea so I've had noway to prepair for that

    I was comparing them both together due to the fact they both pretty much fuck up 95% of teams that don't have a select few pokes. The outrage Giratina-O set I'd consider through the process you just put me through. I run roar over wilo and the specD evs to ensure I beat the majoirty of cm Arceus anyway.

    Good suggestions.
    Donkey likes this.

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