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Wall, Stall, and Attack - Arghonaut CAP RMT

Discussion in 'Create-A-Pokémon Project' started by Plus, Aug 24, 2009.

  1. Plus

    Plus walk into da club like whaddup i gotta big cock
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
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    Intro

    When I first made this team, it was heavy stall. However, being the primarily offensive player I am, I couldn't stand stalling out for so long without some presence. Even in stall, you want a little bit of oomph to force out the switches, and walling like a sitting duck and waiting for entry hazards to kill isn't exactly my style. I've managed to maintain a stall route while still having some power to keep some momentum. The reason why I'm running Stall when I usually prefer offense? Arghonaut. Keeping offensive threats such as Tyranitar and Scizor at bay with relative ease is reason enough to run stall for me.

    I remember when Arghonaut was first implemented, and I really wasn't impressed at how it performed offensively. So, with this team, I've gone the stall route, in a quite unorthodox yet effective fashion. In this team I have tried to combine certain elements of offensive play alongside some common stall tactics. The team's strategy basically revolves around entry hazards, killing stall's threats, and forcing switches, like a regular stall team. However, this team usually forces switches through pure force. Instead of completely walling as many stall teams do, I put some offensive edge into the team, making it more effective against opposing stall as well. While it might be called "semi-stall" for some, I believe that this team is more defensive than most other teams. As for achievements with this team, I can't say that I've been laddering a whole lot, but I sure have laddered 2 hours or so and got me in the 1500s reasonably fast, and it has won me most battles that have not been haxfests or predict wars after playing the same person 20 times. (cough macle) Anyways, onto the team. I'm open to suggestions and criticism, but I think this team has reached its peak and can't be changed without losing some valuable elements.

    Team at a Glance

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    An In Depth Look:

    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar (M) @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP/128 Atk/128 SDef
    Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Crunch
    - Stone Edge
    - Stealth Rock
    - Pursuit
    ---
    Tyranitar is probably my favorite stall lead, as it gets Sandstorm going and has rocks. Furthermore, it kills Azelf easy and laughs in the face of Heatran, with superb defense. The reason why I chose Tyranitar as my lead over something like, say, Hippowdon, is because Roserade and Smeargle are absolute asses to stall, hence the Lum Berry as you can see. At a glance, the EV spread doesn't exactly look well thought out, but let me assure you -- I've tried at least 5 spreads for this Tyranitar, and this is definitely the most effective. 128 Attack EVs puts Tyranitar at an Attack stat of 336, killing the standard lead Roserade and Smeargle 100% of the time, factoring in Sandstorm. So you could say it is an anti lead, but it also gets rocks up instead unlike many others.

    Tyranitar also has a knack of staying in the game pretty long, so it also serves to eat Rotom and Latias. With Lum Berry, Will-o-Wisp is nothing for Tyranitar, making it an easy kill with Crunch. Should Rotom be Scarved, Pursuit is there, as well as being a main weapon for killing Latias and Scarf Gengar. It's pretty damn powerful, as it IS Tyranitar. Not like some pussy Hippowdon.
    ---
    [​IMG]
    Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP/6 Atk/252 Def
    Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    ---
    Forretress leeches off of Tyranitar. Forretress just loves free turns to Rapid Spin and set up Entry Hazards. I noticed I had minor Metagross problems, as Rotom-h doesn't really live as long as I'd like it to, so I settled for a Defensive Forretress as opposed to the SpD Forretress, who is capable of taking a couple hits from opposing Rotom-a and Latias as opposed to this one. However, I ultimately decided that the minimal damage it takes from Meteor Mashes and Scizor U-turns were more important for this team. Of course, Forretress lures in the oh so common Rotom-h, which is perfect for Tyranitar to switch in and demolish. With Lum and Crunch/Pursuit, I doubt Rotom-h would be getting far. The two have great synergy, to say the least. If there's a Heatran, I have the option to go to Tyranitar. If something like a Hippowdon, Gliscor, or Metagross (all of which are pretty common leads anwyays) is in Tyranitar's way, I can just go to Forretress and set up Spikes, or Rapid Spin.

    A defensive Forretress also deals with Arghonaut better and has more time to spin or get up other spikes. I decided it would be best to use Leftovers on this set, as I am not afraid of Magnezone. As long as I get up a few entry hazards, I am fine. Leftovers benefits Forretress greatly and I'd much rather have the ability to take hits better as opposed to a minority that I'm not particularly concerned about.
    ---
    [​IMG]
    Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP/200 Def/56 SDef
    Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Ice Beam
    - Psychic
    ---
    Cresselia is IMO the star of the team. You've heard before that Scizor and Tyranitar both are tiny little bugs in the face of Arghonaut. Since it IS Arghonaut Playtesting, you'd expect a decreased usage of both pokemon. This makes it a perfect oppurtunity to use Cresselia, who also makes a great switch in to Salamence and other Dragons. It effectively covers my ass against Mix Mence, and also serves to kill off Fighting types including Infernape and Arghonaut, the former who is known for breaking stall. Basically, the metagame's now increased dragons, less Scizor/Tyranitar. It's Cresselia's time to shine.

    I chose a Rest Talk set, as Cresselia really does have poor choices for recovery. In addition, I am running Tyranitar who hinders Cresselia's Moonlight. However, I do get a status absorber in this as well. These are standard Cresselia EVs, nothing particularly special. Originally I had a Celebi here for a Fighting resist, but I chose Cresselia instead as it handled Dragon types better, and keeps the Fighting and Ground resists from Celebi that contributed so much to the team. Usually team's don't have much apart from a Rotom-a to beat this pokemon. and as I said earlier, my Tyranitar lead eats those for breakfast. Looking back at this set, I do regret not running Reflect as it would be so much helpful, but I have no slots to waste here.
    ---
    [​IMG]
    Rotom-h @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 204 HP/168 Def/136 Spd
    Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Shadow Ball
    - Trick
    - Overheat
    ---
    Rotom-h was originally Tbolt/Shadow Ball/Will-o-Wisp/Rest, but I chose to run Choice Scarf instead, as I noticed a pretty bad Gengar weakness arising. Also, Stall teams are notorious for being pretty damn slow. This Rotom-h is part of my offensive force in the team. It stops Lucario from sweeping should Arghonaut be crippled, and makes a good overall revenge killer. Not to mention, Scarf Rotom-h does exceptionally well against other stall teams, as I can trick Scarf onto annoying opponents such as Toxic Flamethrower Blissey. Speed works in both defense and offense, so it's definitely a nice pokemon to use. Rotom-h also covers for Mix Mence to an extent, although I do have to lure a BB/EQ. If you're running stall in this metagame, you'd better have an answer to Mence, whether it be a double switch or check, or else you shouldn't run Stall at all.

    The EVs for this Rotom allow me to outspeed base 115 pokemon such as Starmie, who is probably the best Rapid Spinner currently. So, I get to switch Rotom in and outspeed, which is one of Scarf Rotom's fortes. The rest of the EVs were invested in bulk. Originally I had the standard spread, so I just took some off of HP when I chose to ran Scarf. Overall, Scarf Rotom has saved me from many sweeps. Not to mention, Rotom-h gives me another answer to Arghonaut, who is on almost every team.
    ---
    [​IMG]
    Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 Def/244 SDef/8 Spe
    Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Protect
    - Seismic Toss
    - Toxic
    - Wish
    ---
    Blissey is a staple on every stall team, and it isn't any different here. Blissey gets Wish Support and allows me to poison pokemon such as Zapdos, Rotom, and Latias who are immune to Toxic Spikes. Seismic Toss allows me to break subs from pokemon who like to set up on my face and overpower Tyranitar with a couple CMs, notably Latias and Raikou. It also does much better against Sub Roost Zapdos, who is a pain in the ass to take down. Although I dont deal with the ghosts as well, this is why I have Scarf Rotom to revenge kill them, as well as Tyranitar.

    Some annoying things when using Blissey is the occasional Scizor that enjoys U-turning its ass left and right, so I choose to stay in and wish if I know that the opponent has nothing to deal with Blissey other than that. It takes about 60%, and Blissey's defensive prowess shouldn't be underestimated. Protect works nicely for scouting purposes and stalling out with Toxic, and Seismic Toss in combination with Spikes really do a number on the opposing team. Since important members of my team such as Forretress and Tyranitar lack recovery, Wish is very crucial here. It's not particularly hard to Wish pass, either.

    My recent edit to this team is 8 EVs in Speed to outspeed the standard Restalk machamp. With Spikes support and a Seismic Toss switch in, Machamp will most likely be in Stoss kill range for my Blissey.
    ---
    [​IMG]
    Arghonaut (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Unaware
    EVs: 200 HP/252 Def/56 SDef
    Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Waterfall
    - Brick Break
    - Recover
    - Ice Punch
    ---
    Arghonaut has a niche that no other pokemon in OU can do, which is stopping set up pokemon right in their tracks. Add that with some insane bulk, and you've got yourself one of the best bulky waters in OU. With its decent coverage, it manages to hit most of OU neutrally. Although it isn't as strong as Swampert with stab EQ and the ability to go mixed, Arghonaut still is pretty powerful, with 110 attack. Arghonaut can take most attacks and retaliate with enough force to get the opponent switching. The EVs are my own, and I put enough EVs for Arghonaut to hit 401 HP, and put the rest in Defense so I could take Outrages from Flygon and Salamence better. Also, this Arghonaut can actually take a Draco Meteor and recover it off better than most. I would have ran the standard Adamant set, but I needed to maximize the bulk of Arghonaut, so this is what I got.

    I considered three sets for Arghonaut, which were Bulk Up + Restalk, Yawn + Roar, or the Recover Tank. As you can see, I decided to choose the Recover Tank for maximum coverage, as I really don't like how I'm limited to one move with the Restalk set, and while the Yawn + Roar set is pretty nice, I decided that coverage and bulk were good enough. Sadly, I do not have a Phazer here, but that isn't always needed when you have something that completely ignores stat boosts.

    Building the Team

    [​IMG]

    When making the team, I began with Arghonaut. I knew I wanted a stall team, and special threats such as Rotom-a and Latias were going to be rampant. I wanted a Blissey on this team, as Blissey is a staple for stall, heals the team, and takes care of most Special Sweepers.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    With Arghonaut and Blissey, I needed a Fighting resist. I chose Celebi originally for this, as it gave me a ground resist as well, and it could get screens up and deal with Arghonaut. Arghonaut and Celebi work well together, and Blissey patched up holes in the combination by walling Rotom-a and Zapdos.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Next, I needed my entry hazards and a spin blocker. I chose Spiritomb originally for this team, as it was a ghost that could deal with Machamp easily unlike Rotom, who can't switch into Payback. Celebi also had slight troubles with Champ, as Dynamic Punch+Payback hurt quite a bit.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I chose Forretress and Tyranitar as my entry hazard combination. For laying out Spikes, Stealth Rock, and Toxic Spikes, I usually like to use two pokemon with good synergy that can switch back and forth from each other to score free turns, so I could lay out entry hazards easily. Specially defensive Tyranitar seemed like a great idea, as it had Sandstorm, access to SR, and could beat Rotom-a and Latias. I used to have Leftovers on Tyranitar, but ultimately decided it would be best to use Lum Berry in order to beat the sleeper leads who would wreck my plan otherwise. For Forretress, I ran a Defensive spread as opposed to a Specially Defensive spread, for reasons outlined in the RMT.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Putting the pieces together, I still wanted some improvements for the team. One thing that gave me trouble was Zen Headbutt Metagross, which could hurt Celebi and Spiritomb with Meteor Mash, while denting Arghonaut with Zen Headbutt. So, I went with Rotom-h over Spiritomb, and was not satisfied with Celebi at all. I was still pretty mence weak, Choice Band to be exact, and I was thinking of a better answer for a Fighting resist, and stumbled upon Cresselia. Not only did it give me a Fighting resist, it turned the Ground resist into an immunity as well as giving me a solid answer against Dragons.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    However, I still wasn't satisfied. Even with Arghonaut, I wasn't completely safe against Lucario, which actually 2HKOes me with Close Combat. Furthermore, I wasn't satisfied on how I competed with Gengar. I didn't want to change the team either, as each member was contributing a lot to the team. So, I decided to slap a Scarf on Rotom, in order to outspeed both of them, giving me an effective revenge killer as well as giving me an anti-stall weapon in the form of Trick.

    The Threat List - Stolen from my other RMT
    [​IMG]
    Metagross: Lead metagross are usually good for setting up spikes with forretress. Later in the game, I can either EQ it or use Rotom to beat it. As for other metagross, I have to switch around a bit so Rotom doesn't get hit by Zen headbutt so it can hit. Mix metagross are pretty annoying and I have to play mind games with the opponent.

    [​IMG]
    Latias: Tyranitar and Blissey beat Latias. Tyranitar is great for killing this because it packs Pursuit.

    [​IMG]
    Scizor: Arghonaut and Forretress can beat out Scizor, and it will be worn down pretty fast if I can get spikes up.

    [​IMG]
    Salamence: Salamence is probably the biggest threat in the metagame, but I have Cresselia and Arghonaut which both beat out Salamence after a good switch.

    [​IMG]
    Jirachi: For CM Jirachi, I usually need to use Tyranitar to kill it's sub and do some damage, then I can go to Rotom to Trick or kill it off slowly with Stoss Blissey. For any other set, I usually have Forretress setting up Spikes and EQing it. Rotom works well with Overheat as well.

    [​IMG]
    Starmie: Blissey beats Starmie, and Tyranitar isn't ohko'd by any starmie so that is nice. I can pursuit it or crunch depending on what i think it will do. Rotom h can come in on a predicted Rapid Spin and kill it off as well.

    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar: Arghonaut is a great Tyranitar counter, and solves all problems regarding it with my team. Forretress likes to switch in on a Crunch and set up entry hazards.

    [​IMG]
    Heatran: Arghonaut, Blissey, and Tyranitar, do pretty well against Heatran. For lead tran, i get up Stealth Rock pretty easily, and can kill it off with stone edge. For Scarf, there's Bliss and Argho. Against Sub Toxic, Blissey still beats it.
    [​IMG]
    Infernape: Cresselia beats Infernape with Psychic, or I could switch into a fire attack with argho or a fighting type move with Rotom-h and kill it.

    [​IMG]
    Zapdos: Blissey and Tyranitar do well against Zapdos. Seismic Toss + Toxic in particular makes it tough for Zapdos to touch my team.

    [​IMG]
    Machamp: Annoying as well, but usually because of Dynamic Punch hax. I get Cresselia to outspeed and 2hko it with Psychic, or Rotom can come in and do some damage.

    [​IMG]
    Breloom: Cresselia is a Restalker so it's easy to beat Breloom, especially when my two other moves score SE hits on Breloom.

    [​IMG]
    Arghonaut: Cresselia and Rotom-h are both competent in beating Arghonauts of any variety. Arghonaut can't last against Psychics or Thunderbolts, and if it chooses to Stockpile stall cress, then there's always Trick with Rotom. Either way, I still win the stallout against Arghonaut.

    [​IMG]
    Skarmory: Rotom-h kills Skarmory. Otherwise, it's pretty annoying to face. If I'm down to my last pokemon, Cresselia also beats Skarmory 1 on 1. I really have to be careful with this one.

    [​IMG]
    Celebi: Rotom-h beats Celebi with two SE moves. Tyranitar can also come in and Crunch it to death or Pursuit. It takes shit from Twave thanks to Lum, and it is SpD Tar so it wont take too much from GK.

    [​IMG]
    Flygon: Arghonaut and Cresselia are my main Dragon killers, and this is no exception. Ice moves from both will kill it off easily.

    [​IMG]
    Snorlax: Arghonaut has Brick Break for Snorlax, and forretress can also set up entry hazards or spin against Snorlax. Even if it has Fire Punch, Forretress is strong enough to take the hit.

    [​IMG]
    Magnezone: Blissey will beat Magnezone. If it's Life Orb, I'm usually on the lookout for explosion, and switch in Rotom-h regularly, which also beats it with overheat.

    [​IMG]
    Vaporeon: Blissey handles vaporeon easily with Toxic. Rotom is also there for killing right off the bat, although it's harder to switch in.

    [​IMG]
    Blissey: Arghonaut can 2hko Blissey, While Tyranitar can Stone Edge/Crunch. Rotom has Trick if it's needed. With TS support, both Blissey and Cresselia beat it one on one as well.

    [​IMG]
    Gyarados: Arghonaut works wonders for beating Gyarados. There's also Scarf Rotom although it can't outspeed most Gyara after a Dragon Dance, and Cresselia who can Psychic it. However, Arghonaut is definitely the best option.

    [​IMG]
    Azelf: For leads, Tyranitar can Crunch right off the bat or set up rocks, and I usually do the latter since most opponent's already know they are going to lose their Azelf. After I SR, I pursuit, knowing that they know they can't do much and would switch out otherwise. If they run Grass Knot, then I can still kill them. It's a 3HKO on my Tar.
    [​IMG]
    Lucario: Rotom-h can beat Lucario while it is scarfed. Otherwise, I need to be careful switching Arghonaut in, in order to beat it with Break Break.
    [​IMG]
    Gengar: I will usually let gengar sleep something, usually Cress, and then I go to Rotom-h or Tyranitar and kill it off. Tyranitar can take a Focus Blast so I'm all set here.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Rotom-a: Tyranitar beats all sorts of Rotom-a, although it still has minor difficulty with the Sub beam set. Lum Berry for status, Pursuit for switches, and crunch for an easy kill.

    [​IMG]
    Mamoswine: Forretress sets up on Mamo, while Argho and Rotom have SE moves on Mamo to kill it. If it is a lead, it is especially helpful since it can't touch my Forry.

    [​IMG]
    Swampert: As a lead, Tyranitar sets up rocks, and I go to either Cresselia or Arghonaut, which beat Swampert. If it switches, i'm able to set up Toxic Spikes which will make my life much easier against Pert.

    [​IMG]
    Bronzong: Tyranitar and Forretress use Bronzong for entry hazard bait. Rotom-h kills it, i guess, but it ends up exploding in my face anyways.

    [​IMG]
    Jolteon: Tyranitar and Blissey beat Jolteon, as it is a special sweeper. It's not much of a problem.

    [​IMG]
    Empoleon: Blissey beats Empoleon, and is a reason why I run Seismic Toss on it. Arghonaut is there as well, ignoring stat boosts. If empoleon is a lead, I stealth rock instantly and switch out to Blissey.

    [​IMG]
    Dugtrio: Since Duggy's a trapper, it depends on what Duggy traps as to what I have an answer to. Although, Arghonaut and Cresselia beat it 100% of the time, even if it Sucker Punches Cress.

    [​IMG]
    Togekiss: Blissey walls Togekiss, and Rotom can fight it off with Thunderbolt. Tyranitar also beats it with Stone Edge, and it can even take an Aura Sphere from this thing. Talk about bulky!

    [​IMG]
    Kingdra: I usually have to switch around on this thing when it is under the rain. Usually I would go to Blissey to take the Draco Meteor, then I'd go back to Tyranitar to start the Sandstorm again. At that point, most of my team members can beat it, notably Cresselia and Arghonaut. For DD Kingdra, Arghonaut walls Kingdra, as it can take multiple outrages and shrug them off, then retaliate with a Brick Break.

    [​IMG]
    Hippowdon: Forretress loves to set up on this thing, and there's also Cresselia, Rotom-h, and Arghonaut to beat it.

    [​IMG]
    Forretress: Rotom-h can block spin and Overheat. I also have my own forretress, which can beat other specially defensive forretress one on one with Earthquake.


    [​IMG]
    Gliscor: Cresselia and Arghonaut enjoy switching into Gliscor, and scaring it off with Ice Beam. There's also Forretress who I usually switch in to Gliscor in order to lay out some spikes.

    [​IMG]
    Dragonite: Arghonaut walls Dragonite and can kill with Ice Punch. Cresselia is also there with Ice Beam if Arghonaut isn't ready to take a hit.

    [​IMG]
    Roserade: Lead Roserade will die to Tyranitar, thanks to the Lum Berry which nullifies Sleep and the OHKO on Stone Edge.

    [​IMG]
    Suicune: Suicune does look pretty annoying, although offensive sets are beaten by Toxic Blissey, while the usual Crocune can't do jackshit to Arghonaut. Brick Break hurts Suicune more than a Surf from it too, iirc. Rotom is also there to Thunderbolt, which does a number on Suicune. Trick is a great option for crocune as well, rendering it useless against the face of Blissey.

    [​IMG]
    Cresselia: Rotom and Tyranitar both beat Cresselia. If it is not a Charge Beam variant, it lets Forretress set up numerous entry hazards or allows for a Rapid Spin. Furthermore, there is Blissey who can toxistall Cresselia as well as Seismic Toss.

    [​IMG]
    Heracross: Rotom-h can outspeed Heracross and Overheat. Usually I would have to predict either a Megahorn or Close Combat in order to kill Heracross off.

    [​IMG]
    Aerodactyl: The Lead Aerodactyl set usually doesn't let me set up rocks, which is okay since Tyranitar comes back late game. I start off with a Stone edge and switch to Forretress to Rapid Spin the remaining 1 HP, as they will usually taunt in my face. Should a ghost switch in afterwards, Tyranitar is raring to go.

    [​IMG]
    Porygonz: Blissey and Tyranitar are both specially defensive so they pretty much take down PZ relatively easy.

    [​IMG]
    Tentacruel: Cresselia, Tyranitar, Rotom-h, and Blissey can all beat Tentacruel, although Tentacruel getting Toxic Spikes could be annoying. However, I do have a Rapid Spinner.
    [​IMG]
    Ninjask: Against lead ninjask, I really dont have much of an answer, but that's okay. Arghonaut ignores all stat boosts so it usually does not matter.

    [​IMG]
    Electivire: I have Cresselia to wall this thing and beat it with Psychic, or I could lure an EQ or Cross Chop from Tyranitar and go to Rotom-h to kill it off instead.
    [​IMG]
    Weavile: Forretress sets shit up on this thing. Arghonaut is there for killing Weavile easily and walls all of its sets should it Swords Dance.

    Conclusion

    Well, that's about it. Hope you enjoyed. Not really looking for improvements on the team although they are indeed welcome, but I just wanted to show a couple of twists on standard stall that work especially well in the Arghonaut metagame.
  2. HD

    HD

    Joined:
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    1,406
    Great team Plus. Pretty hard to find big weaks. Let's see. Possibly a combination of MixApe with Tar support to [help] kill Cresselia and Rotom. That's not something to be extremeley worried about, since Tyranitar would have a hard time facing your RestTalkCresselia. And Trick would be a liability to Tyranitar. You don't have to worry about this a lot, but it's something to watch out for. CBSalamence will do a number to the your team (probably not). CBOutrage does a rather nice number to most pokemon on your team, though smart switching will help taking it on.
  3. Plus

    Plus walk into da club like whaddup i gotta big cock
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
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    Hey, thanks for the rate. Mixape+tar could be pretty annoying for Cresselia, luring me into ape then switching into tar I guess, although I do have arghonaut who handles both to an extent. CB Salamence I will take as a threat, though. I fear FB/Fang if I switch Forry in, and everything else is 2hkoed. Sadly I'd have to predict here, but hey -- not all teams are perfect. ^_^
  4. Umbreon Dan

    Umbreon Dan 〉λ=
    is a CAP Contributor Alumnus

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    I've battled this team enough times to know that it's pretty awesome.

    One thing I'd like to ask about is Blissey's uber EV spread. 252+ Special Defense really hasn't been useful in my experience, so why not more HP to survive random (weak) explosions from dipshits like Magnezone and Heatran? They're normally EVed to barely KO 252/0 Blissey.

    If I had to suggest a possible weakness, I would say watch for subCM Mismagius. I know it isn't seen much in OU, but with Blissey unable to touch it, HP Fighting for Tyranitar, and Substitute to protect it from Rotom, it could be surprisingly dangerous to your team.

    Nice team as usual, plus.
  5. Plus

    Plus walk into da club like whaddup i gotta big cock
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
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    Haven't used Blissey that much, but I agree that my spread isn't too great lol. If anybody has a better spread, I'm all ears. However, I'm really not sure I'd want to go 252 hp/252 def here. Although Blissey's SpD is pretty high, investing in SpD really makes those hits much easier to take in combination with some spikes+sr, which has been quite common against me. I might fiddle around with my spread a bit and see where that goes.

    Haven't really seen much Mismagius in OU for, well, a year? If I see Mismagius I'd probably go to Tyranitar. If Tyranitar can take a +1 HP Fighting from Sub Beam Rotom, then it can take one from mismagius as well. If it's running Shadow Ball+HP Fighting, then Arghonaut can come in easy and take it on. In any other occasion where it does not run HP Fighting and Tbolt instead, Tyranitar eats it for breakfast with Pursuit.
  6. Umbreon Dan

    Umbreon Dan 〉λ=
    is a CAP Contributor Alumnus

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    Nah, I wouldn't suggest 252 hp / 252 defense. It's probably best to stick with the standard 176 calm for your special defense needs, but the remaining 80 EVs (normally invested in SAtk, but obviously that's useless here) can be moved to HP. With extra HP, you could actually drop your SDef even lower, though I wouldn't go below 136. You'd be surprised at how much better Blissey becomes at taking physical attacks. I think you've exploded stuff on my blissey before, only to have it survive B)
  7. Plus

    Plus walk into da club like whaddup i gotta big cock
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    Uhh

    238 Atk vs 119 Def & 670 HP (500 Base Power): 715 - 842 (106.72% - 125.67%)


    Standard Scarftran against your spread (4 evs invested in speed to outspeed some machamp) is still an OHKO. You completely sure about this? =/

    176 Atk vs 119 Def & 670 HP (500 Base Power): 529 - 623 (78.96% - 92.99%)


    Standard CS Magnezone against the Blissey set you suggested.

    176 Atk vs 119 Def & 651 HP (500 Base Power): 529 - 623 (81.26% - 95.70%)


    Standard CS Magnezone against the current set I have.

    198 Atk vs 119 Def & 670 HP (500 Base Power): 773 - 910 (115.37% - 135.82%)


    Standard "All-Out Attacker" Magnezone from the Analysis against the spread you suggested.

    Honestly, a 3% difference isn't that big for me. =/ I wouldn't be *surprised* at any of these things I would be taking. Also, even with your suggestions I wouldn't be taking much Explosions better than I already am. Same goes for stuff like U-turn, etc. Not exactly sure where you are getting this from but if you have a *specific* reason why I should run your spread (such as 2hko->3hko on a common pokemon) then I'd be more than happy to run it.

    Not to mention, I dont think I've battled you too much, and the only scenario that I can think of where that I'd explode and Blissey would survive is Gengar Boom, which I really haven't used in a year or so, or Scarftran against a bold defensive Bliss. :|

    EDIT: For now I'm going to run 252 Def/244SpD/8 Spe. 80 HP/252 Def/176 Sdef could work although that I honestly do prefer to take the least amount of damage from Special attacks. I'm not going to be an idiot and keep Blissey in on a powerful Physical attack without any benefits. I honestly do think these calcs and reasons as to why I'd run the HP are a bit theorymonish as well. 8 Speed should do the trick against the standard Restalk Machamp, and everything else should be set. Not seeing much of a use from running the HP so I'll just keep my spread except with the 8 EVs in Speed for maximum bulk in SpD.

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