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Discussion in 'BW OU' started by StairFall, Nov 25, 2012.
Yep my mistake lol. And thanks by the way, it's a true story.
The ultimate stallbreaker:
@ Lum Berry
Trait: Mold Breaker
Evs: 66 Hp / 252 Atk / 192 Spe
Beats almost every stall team there is. At +2 in the rain, I don't think there's something that can take two hits. Aqua Tail 2HKO's physical Skarm, Superpower hits other Steels, and Outrage kills everything else. The Evs are simple: Max Attack for power, 192 to always creep Heatran, and the rest dumped in Hp.
Hail Breaker Kyurem
Black Kyurem @ Choice Band
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
- Fusion Bolt
- Freeze Shock
I feel like Freeze Shock defeats the whole purpose of what you're trying to do. Communicating what attack you're using lets them switch to a resist and take the hit comfortably. Perhaps a power herb could be used like Moltres Sky attack in RU but even then you lose out on a lot of power.
Blizzard with an Adamant nature? Wouldn't something like Brave/Naughty be better?
Freeze Shock is terrible on a CB Kyurem-B because of it's charge up turn. This leaves Kyurem-B wide open, and gives the opponent a chance to cripple or take out Kyurem-B before it can even attack. Worst of all is that Kyurem-B is locked into the move, making it almost certain that he'll switch out after the move is dealt, giving the opponent a free turn. I would use Earth Power over Blizzard to hit Fire types like Heatran who walls this set, and Dragon Claw over Freeze Shock for a better move to be locked into. Ice Beam can also be replaced over blizzard due to blizzard missing all the time, however again Heatran and most steel types will wall this set completely without it.
Taking advantage of Kyurem-B's bulk on a CB set is more crucial then on mixed or Scarf sets due to it's lack of any speed investment, so the SpA drop isn't that big of a deal. Besides, it's only effecting Earth Power or Ice Beam which will rarely be used in the first place.
Isn't that set the standard? Politoed is so strong with Specs that it can defeat things that resist its attacks, much like Keldeo, although Politoed doesn't have nearly as much power as Keldeo. I prefer the defensive sets, though, since they have much more survivability.
This set can also be used outside rain teams. I've used SubCM Jirachi a lot on a sandstorm team, and it's an incredibly effective wallbreaker/stallbreaker. If you aren't using Water Pulse, the only thing that you need to remove are Gliscor and Hippowdon, (and Quagsire of course) and on my opinion they are easy to remove or cripple pairing Jirachi with something like Celebi, Gothitelle or Keldeo. Once Ground-types are out of equation, there aren't much walls capable of stopping Jirachi. Jirachi can even use many common threats on stall teams, like Jellicent lacking Taunt, Tentacruel, Forretress, Ferrothorn, Chansey and Blissey, as setup fodder. Against offensive teams, Jirachi can sweep late game, or if you have paralyze support, mid-game at best.
The moves that I generally like to use the most are Thunderbolt and Psyshock. Psyshock because it gives a way to bypass the pink blobs without having to boost all way to +6. It also gives Jirachi a chance to win Calm Mind wars, as thanks to Jirachi's double resistance to Psychic, even a +6 Psyshock does little damage to Jirachi, even without any investiment on physical Defense, and against Keldeo, Jirachi generally wins because Keldeo is weak to Psyshock. Flash Cannon gives Jirachi a way to defeat Celebi, Tyranitar (without Water Pulse or a +6 Thunderbolt), and physically defensive Ground-types.
Yes, I know that Jirachi can only hax the opponent using Thunder and Water Pulse. However, these moves are only good on Rain, and if I want to use Jirachi on other weathers (or non-weather), Psyshock, Flash Cannon and Thunderbolt are solid alternatives that don't have the same hax level as Thunder and Water Pulse, but are generally stronger and don't detract Jirachi from its main job, that is wallbreaking/stallbreaking.
OBS: I prefer to use a bulky speedy EV spread of 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe instead of a physically defensive, on more offensive teams, as the speed is very good to outpace unboosted things like non-Scarf Genesect, non-Scarf Haxorus, Dragonite and to speed tie with non-Scarf Salamence, Celebi, Victini and some other things. While Jirachi's speed is definitively average compared to the speed demons that we have on the metagame, more speed allows Jirachi to sweep late-game once you remove anything faster that can trouble Jirachi. Not to mention how good is to outpace Tentacruel and Jellicent on stall teams.
Final Gambit Victini is a great wall breaker. It can throw off the opponents synergy, and if there is a Jellicent, just U-turn.
Wow, this was an expertly written article. I do see some flaws though-they're only minor critiques.
1. The Kyurem forms are hard to keep around, especially if they're slowed down. Kyruem-B (wow he is an offensive force) is quite slow in the Ubers tier. A Hi-Jump Kick, Superpower, Close Combat, or mach/bullet punches can really wear him down, and this completely ignores the dragon weakness.
2. Despite being niche moves, consider the roles of counter and mirror coat/magic bounce. I find the above moves to be excellent in both bringing down wall breakers and/or causing trouble for walls. A countered ferrothorn (assuming gyro ball or power whip) or a coated gensect will go down quickly or at least switch out.
3. Genesect is being subject tested. There's a good chance he'll head up to Ubers. Please consider the impact this will have on OU.
Again, nice job on a very thorough article!
SpecsToed is not a wallbreaker by any means. Any competent stall or semi-stall team will easily wall it, and most special walls in general wall it with ease. Blissey, SpD Jellicent, SpD Celebi, Chansey, and Amoonguss all wall it with ease, not to mention that it gets outsped by some common defensive Pokemon such as Celebi and Gliscor, which makes it an even worse wallbreaker. Btw Blissey is not 2HKOed with a little piroir damage, it is 3HKOed after SR 50% of the time with a 80% accurate move, which means that it is 3HKOed ~25% of the time after SR.
Also StairFall if you want to include the best wallbreakers you should definitely mention Mixed Salamence and Mixed Kyurem-B, and remove Band Kyurem-B. Band is ok in DragMag teams, but its not a real wallbreaker, or at least not one of the best, as many Steel types check him or even wall him easily. Physically defensive Jirachi, physically defensive Ferrothorn and physically defensive Forretress with Pain Split all are solid counters, and they are very common in stall teams. Mixed Kyu-B in the other hand (max SpA and Speed, 4 attacking moves with Expert Belt or LO) is almost impossible to wall and can change moves while also being able to use Roost, making it a nightmare for stall teams to deal with.
Thanks, I'll definitely add mixmence and mixkyube, the reason I showcased Kyurem-B with a band in the OP was that is was one of the best examples of sheer power in the metagame. I will make sure to include mixkyube in the mixed attacking gallery and possibly the sub/roost/claw/tail set somewhere else as well.
Also this thread is about wall breaking in general, you're free to discuss counters and strategies as well as simply posting wallbreaker sets, talk about the metagame and the importance of this type of offence etc. Personally the reason I think stall has been having so much trouble lately is because of the fact that a lot of offensive pokemon are pulling double duty. A lot of pokemon who are strong and fast can break walls and sweep offensive teams because many more pokemon are going mixed in this metagame.
This set could also be added, even though its not the most viable poke in this meta, because it is undeniably one of the best wallbreakers, if not the best. I present to you:
@ Toxic Orb / Flame Orb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
At +2 and with the orb activated i believe that Heracross OHKOes the whole meta after SR. Stall teams without multiple Protect users will lose 2-3 pokes before Heracross goes down and the only thing that they can do to defent theirselves is to pack a Scarfer so that they can revenge kill it. Of 'course this set dies very fast and is slow for an offensive mon, but when it comes to destroying stall teams, this is your guy!