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Walrein [4N]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Roflmao23, Oct 31, 2009.

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  1. Roflmao23

    Roflmao23

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    I've been busy with school lately, I got 4 exams past week and more 2 this week. :|
    I'll update my post this weekend.

    ----

    This is an update of the Stallrein set, I've been using it for a long time and, here it is.

    Status: Done?


    [​IMG]
    http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/walrein



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    [SET]
    name: StallRein (OU)
    move 1: Protect
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Super Fang
    move 4: Brine / Roar / Encore
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Ice Body
    nature: Bold
    evs: 220 HP / 226 Def / 64 Spe
    ivs:

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Walrein was, for a long time, seen as a inferior staller because it only worked with a lot of support, but with the recent addition of Super Fang to its movepool Walrein has a new weapon to play with and this set takes advantage of that.</p>

    <p>This set uses the benefits of Walrein's ability in conjunction with Leftovers and its good defences. Switch to an opponent that won't break your sub, set up and use Protect and Substitute repeatedly to stall out your opponents, making sure not to use Protect twice. With Substitute and Protect, your opponents will have problems breaking your sub, and the indirect damage adds up very quickly. Super Fang is a potent weapon on Walrein, and it has great potential combined with Brine. Super Fang makes it easier for Walrein to beat some Pokémon more easily, an example of this is: a Metagross without a status condition with Leftovers would be very tough to take down without wasting many turns. With Super Fang however, Metagross switches in on Walrein while it sets up a Substitute, Walrein uses Super Fang followed by Brine and Metagross is defeated. Very appealing, isn't it? Roar, Encore, Toxic, Blizzard and Aqua Ring can all go in the place of Brine. Roar can be useful to make use of the residual damage. Encore may allow Walrein to get a free sub. Toxic is useful if you want to defeat Rotom-A and Latias, but with Toxic Spikes support it's pointless to use it. Blizzard can be used as your attack but Brine usually outclasses it. Aqua Ring can give Walrein a little more healing.</p>

    <p>This set uses 220 HP EVs because it puts Walrein's HP stat at 416, which is divisible by 16. This is of great importance as with its max HP of 424, Walrein's Substitutes would require 106 HP to make, but over the two turns it spends stalling with Substitute and Protect it would only recover back 104 HP. A HP stat that is divisible by 16 is necessary to allow Walrein to stall indefinitely (or at least until its PP runs out). The Def EVs allow Walrein to survive a Close Combat from 252 Att Infernape and KO back with Brine. The 64 Speed EVs puts Walrein at 182 Speed, letting Walrein outspeed neutral natured base 70s, most notably Skarmory and some variants of Metagross. An alternative spread of 224 HP/ 218 Def / 64 Speed allow Walrein to use one more Substitute and, allow it to switch into Stealth Rock four times.</p>

    <p>When using this set, Abomasnow's support is a must, since its Snow Warning ability summons permanent hail and activates Walrein's Ice Body ability. Blissey, Celebi, Tyranitar and, Vaporeon can give this set problems. Toxic Spikes support is incredibly useful to defeat this threats. The best Pokémon to set them up is Tentacruel, it has Rapid Spin and a Fire-type resistance which is extremely useful on a hail team; however, Roserade resists everything Walrein doesn't but, as previously mentioned, a hail team needs as much Fire-type resistances as it can get. Stealth Rock support is useful but is also a threat, since Walrein HP gets down to 75% once it switches in taking 25% damage, this hinders its stall capability. A Forretress can set up all kind of entry hazards and spin them away, but it offers a 4x Fire-type weakness to the team. Swampert has Stealth Rock, Roar, Blizzard, Surf, Earthquake,... and, a Fire-type resistance, it can easily set up Stealth rock at the beggining of the match, unless it runs agaisnt a Taunt user. Starmie also has Rapid Spin to get rid of the rocks, access to Blizzard and a Fire-type resistance. Frosslass can set up Spikes and make use of its Snow Cloak ability, it is an inferior option through.</p>

    <p>Walrein has trouble beating the Rotom forms with Leftovers, especially Rotom-C, since without Toxic they can't be stalled out. Gengar is also a problem if Walrein isn't behind a sub when it switches in. Weavile is the best answer to those, it can hit them with Pursuit or Night Slash, or set up a Swords Dance when they're switching out. Be careful and don't switch Weaville on Rotom's/Gengar's Overheat/Hidden Power Fire. Brellom (with Toxic Orb) is also a big problem if it has the opportunity to hit one of your teammates with a Spore. The best way to deal with it is to put a Pokémon you know that won't help much on that match to sleep (you'll need to know the opponent's team well). It's a hard, but necessary, choice. Celebi outspeeds, resists Brine and, 2HKOs Walrein with Grass Knot. Abomasnow resists Grass-type attacks and can it Celebi with a Blizzard, Weaville can Pursuit/Night Slash Celebi if it trys to switch out. Latias is hard to stop, it can set up Calm Mind, recover the damage did by Super Fang/Brine and, hit Walrein with a boosted Thunderbolt. Scizor, Bronzong and, Weaville (Weaville can't switch directly) are the best options to take care of it. Scizor can use Bullet Punch, U-turn or, Bug Bite to deal massive amounts of damage; Bronzong can do the same with Gyro Ball and, Weaville can Pursuit it to death. Empoleon, Suicune and, Vaporeon are also threats since they resist Brine and can roar Walrein out, Super Fang hurt them badly through. Gyarados isn't a Walrein counter. It can Taunt Walrein, but Walrein can beat it with Super Fang and two Brines (factoring Stealth Rock in). Gyarados can be revenge killed by Weaville when it's at low health. Magnezone can handle Gyarados without Earthquake and beat the Steel-types that are problematic for the team, like Scizor or Jirachi.</p>

    <p>Electric-types like Zapdos and Jolteon can give Walrein problems, but they are 2HKOed by Super Fang and Brine since Walrein usually survives one Thunderbolt. Abomasnow can take the Electric-type attacks and hit back with Blizzard or Earthquake. Grass-type attacks can also be taken by Abomasnow. Fighting-type attacks can be taked by Tentacruel or Starmie and Magnezone can take the Rock-type attacks aimed at Walrein.</p>

    <p>When using Walrein it can be useful to know what threatening Pokémon it outspeeds. Walrein outspeeds all the common walls except Celebi, Rotom-A, Suicune and, Vaporeon. Walrein outspeeds Choice Band Scizor, Machamp, some Metagross, Choice Band Tyranitar and, ties with SubSeed Brellom.</p>


    -------------------

    Thanks to:

    unqulateman, for grammar check;
    imperfectluck, for proofread;
    kinglerdude, for proofread;
    Phantom IV, for proofread and the alternative EV spread idea;
    mtr, for grammar check / proofread.
  2. ungulateman

    ungulateman

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    Awkward sentence in the middle there - making it more sensible seemed to be the best.
  3. Roflmao23

    Roflmao23

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    Thanks Unqulateman, edited those changes in.
  4. imperfectluck

    imperfectluck
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    Run this through a spellchecker like Microsoft Word, there are several basic spelling errors.

    Walrein usually resists one Thunderbolt...
  5. kd24

    kd24 yo daddy musta been a drug dealer? why, cuz you're dope
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    if you plan on making this the official set, i don't see why attacks such as encore or roar should not be included. personally, i would slash roar with brine, as you can really create entry hazard havoc. in fact, you could also try and make 2 dif walrein sets, this one that focuses on super fang + brine combo and the other stay the same, the entry hazard combo (blizzard/encore/roar/yawn).

    this also needs to be more formal, id love to help with that tommorow.
  6. Roflmao23

    Roflmao23

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    @imperfectluck: Did it.
    @emblem: Id love to receive your help. ;) PM me.
  7. Phantom_IV

    Phantom_IV

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    Some of your sentences are a bit more... creative.... than usual for these analyses.
    "Switch to an opponent that won't break your sub, set up and start stalling!"
    "Super Fang is Walrein's new hero and with Brine it just adds to the madness."

    This whole section is kinda awkward. Additionally, the language is too loose and informal for an analysis.
    "It also lets it beat some Pokémon more easily, an example of this is: a Machamp without a status condition with Leftovers would be very tough to take down without wasting many turns. With Super Fang however, Machamp switches in on Walrein while it sets up a Substitute, Walrein uses Super Fang followed by Brine and bye bye Machamp. In the meantime Walrein didn't take any damage in return (Walrein outspeeds Machamp). Very appealing, isn't it? You can use Toxic in the place of Brine, but it is not reccomended."

    Already mentioned, but numerous spelling errors are present, such as "reccomended" in the sentence above.

    Hmm, perhaps Walrein should have 417 hp instead? It could allow for an extra sub, or allow switching into SR 4 times. These are unlikely circumstances, but easily worth the extra 4 EVs.

    Please spend some more time editing this yourself, roflmao23.
  8. mtr

    mtr

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    I see that you updated this after the most recent posts, so I'll edit this.

    EDIT: not bad overall, but some things could be added IMO.

  9. Roflmao23

    Roflmao23

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    I expanded the team options and counters section. (Grammar checks and proofread are needed). Also, should I change the EV spread to 220 HP / 226 Def / 64 Speed? It allows Walrein to outspeed Choice Band Tyranitar. I think it's worth it.
    ----
    @Phantom IV: I mentioned your alternative EV spread comment.
    @mtr: Edited that in. I think Blizzard shouldn't be an option, it could beat Latias, Celebi and, Salamence, but then Metagross, Scizor, etc., would give problems. I mentioned it through.
    ----
    I don't know if I'll be back here today, if I don't come back I'll edit this tomorrow.
  10. mtr

    mtr

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    Well that's all right. Actually, one of Blizzard's draws was being able to 2HKO Gyarados switch-ins after Stealth Rock damage, but that might be useless now with Super Fang and Brine. I used Hail teams quite a bit in DPPt, but I haven't tested Super Fang in HGSS. However, my other point still stands. Roar and Encore are very useful on stall teams like the ones Walrein will inhabit, and should at least be mentioned.
  11. Roflmao23

    Roflmao23

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    @mtr: I mentioned Roar and Encore and slashed them. Did you see it?
  12. Phantom_IV

    Phantom_IV

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    Just a quick thing: Remove subseed Breloom from things that Walrein outspeeds.
  13. Roflmao23

    Roflmao23

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    @Phantom IV: You're right, it outspeeds Walrein by 1 point. Should I add more 4 EVs to Speed? It would outspeed Choice Band Tyranitar and tie with Brellom.
  14. mtr

    mtr

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    Well, I noticed it now. Breloom and Tyranitar are such potent threats to hail teams that you should do anything to outspeed them, so yes, you should switch in 4 Def EVs.
  15. Roflmao23

    Roflmao23

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    @mtr: Thanks. ;)

    EDIT: I think this is done now...A last grammar check should be made through. :|
  16. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    I'm afraid I'm going to have to lock this. I'm too skeptical with Brine + Super Fang and the writing is, to say the least, iffy. Closing this.
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