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Walrein [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Metal Sonic, Nov 16, 2013.

  1. Metal Sonic

    Metal Sonic Turn it up!
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    [Overview]

    <p>Walrein can function as a decent tank thanks to its awesome bulk. While it is usually seen using its ability Ice Body alongside hail in the higher tiers, such a set unfortunately cannot be used in NU as hail is banned, limiting its viability in the tier. Even though Regice hits harder, which along with its better defenses makes it a better choice as an Ice-type tank most of the time, Walrein's niche over Regice is that it can handle Charizard better thanks to its Fire resistance granted by Thick Fat. Roar is another move Walrein has over its competitors, and its good Special Attack means it can still hit decently hard. A Water typing helps Walrein to take on Water- and Steel-types better than Regice, allowing Walrein to function as a decent tank that is difficult to OHKO. Walrein's lack of recovery, however, limits its effectiveness as a tank.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Toxic
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Roar / Encore
    move 4: Surf / Protect
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Calm
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Thick Fat gives Walrein helpful resistances to Fire- and Ice-type moves, which combined with its great bulk allows it to easily take Water-, Ice-, and Fire-type attacks from the likes of Samurott, Simipour, and Charizard, respectively. Toxic is an essential move for Walrein, as it wears down the opponent over the course of the match. Ice Beam is its STAB move of choice and lets it hit Flying-, Grass-, and Ground-type opponents for super effective damage. Surf is Walrein's method of disposing of Charizard immediately, and is its only way of doing any real damage to Steel-types that shrug off an Ice Beam with ease and are immune to Toxic. Surf also helps with other Fire-types, such as Torkoal and Camerupt, and does more damage to the likes of Armaldo. Roar and Encore are both options for disrupting setup sweepers; while Roar is the safer move, allowing Walrein to phaze and rack up hazard damage, Encore can lock the opponent into disadvantageous moves, such as a stat-boosting move or Substitute, and thus lets a teammate set up on said threat. Walrein is hampered by its lack of access to reliable recovery and the lack of permanent hail in Neverused, which is a letdown considering its great bulk. Protect somewhat mitigates this by letting Walrein get extra Leftovers recovery and rack up Toxic damage.</p>


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A specially defensive spread allows Walrein to take on Charizard and special Samurott. However, you can opt to use a physically defensive set, which boasts the ability to take on Swords Dance Samurott and most Ground-types with ease. Super Fang is a viable move which can halve the opponent's health and cripples the Pokemon that can normally handle this set, such as Regice and Metang. However, since Walrein can actually deal decent damage thanks to its base 95 Special Attack, it is usually not necessary. </p>

    <p>Entry hazard support is great to take advantage of Walrein's stalling ability and to use in conjunction with Roar. Great teammates for Walrein include those that can set up both Spikes and Toxic Spikes, such as Roselia and Garbodor. In addition, they resist the Grass- and Fighting-type attacks that Walrein dislikes and can set up entry hazards against them. Meanwhile, Walrein can deal with the Ground- and Rock-types that these entry hazard setters loathe by forcing them out due to the threat of Surf. Rapid Spin support is nice to have for Walrein, as Walrein's weakness to Stealth Rock hurts its ability to take on various Pokemon, such as Charizard. Pokemon such as Sawk, Torterra, and Serperior are great partners and can also easily prevent Stealth Rock. Torkoal is the best Rapid Spin user for Walrein's team to use, as not only can it set up Stealth Rock, but it also takes Grass-type attacks for Walrein. Additionally, Torkoal can act as a physically defensive tank while Walrein acts as a specially defensive tank, making the combination of these two Pokemon a solid core. Ground-types such as Golem pair well with Walrein, as they are immune to Electric and can take Rock-type attacks for Walrein, while Walrein can take Water- and Ice-type attacks for them. Exeggutor is also a great teammate for Walrein; it can take the Fighting- and Grass-type attacks aimed at Walrein, while Walrein can check pesky Fire- and Flying-types for Exeggutor.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>A Life Orb or Choice Specs set is possible, as Walrein's Special Attack and type coverage is pretty decent. A physical Curse set can be used to take advantage of Walrein's great bulk, but Walrein's weaknesses to common types such as Fighting and Grass make it unable to set up safely. Finally, manual hail can be used to utilize the unbreakable Stallrein strategy, but five turns isn't nearly enough to properly execute said strategy.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Walrein is worn down easily by entry hazards&mdash;Stealth Rock takes out a chunk of its health, and it gets worn down by Spikes very quickly as well. Due to its multiple common weaknesses, it is easy to force Walrein out, thus racking up the hazard damage that Walrein takes. Grass-types can only check Walrein because they don't want to switch directly into Ice Beam, but they can easily 2HKO Walrein, meaning that they almost always win against it one-on-one. Most Electric- and Fighting-types with decent offensive presence, such as Electabuzz, Ampharos, Sawk and Gurdurr, can easily force Walrein out as well. Ludicolo is especially threatening to Walrein, since it's only hit neutrally by Ice Beam, can heal itself back with Giga Drain, and only really fears Toxic. Clerics, including, but not limited to, Audino and Musharna, and RestTalk users, can easily cleanse themselves of Toxic poison and stall Walrein out. Steel-types are in a similar vein, with opponents such as Metang being immune to Toxic and resisting Ice Beam, while retaliating with a painful Meteor Mash. Finally, Taunt users, particularly Mandibuzz and Misdreavus, can temporarily halt Walrein's usage of support moves and can also cripple Walrein with Will-O-Wisp or Toxic, respectively.</p>
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 4, 2014
  2. Metal Sonic

    Metal Sonic Turn it up!
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    ok so i copied some points from my Dewgong analysis because some stuff remain the same, and i don't think its plagiarism because MY OWN WORK LOL

    but at 2/3 i'm going to paraphrase those stuff because it looks really awkward if people notice the exact same sentence structure in both analyses lol
  3. Lolk

    Lolk you can't stop the beat
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    Mention Regice functions better as a special wall in the overview because of it's greater defenses and the ability to hit back. You can add this to the Charizard point, saying Walrein's niche is it can take Zard on better and it can use Roar.

    Put Roar > Encore, as it is far too slow to make it effective. It can go in AC if you want to cockblock Musharna, but that is all you will be able to do.

    Mention that this set fits best in the Stall and Balanced playstyles.

    I wouldn't say Rapid Spin support is vital for Walrein, as it only loses 25% by switching in, which is helped by Protect. Saying Walrein needs one of three not-so-good Pokemon on its team really hampers its teambuilding. Just say it is helpful if Walrein is being used in the Stall playstyle.

    I'd move Super Fang to AC since it works really well against the Pokemon that can handle this set, such as Regice and Metang.

    In other options, mention a Life Orb/Choice Specs set, as Walrein's Special Attack and coverage are pretty decent.

    For C&C mention Rapid Spin users stop Walrein's phazing, Clerics and RestTalk users hamper one of Walrein's damage sources, Toxic (Audino can use Heal Bell and wall Walrein until its death). Steel-types are immune to Toxic and resist Ice Beam, the popular Grass / Poison-types are immune to Toxic and resist Surf.

    I'm not QC, but that's just my two cents. :)
  4. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast formerly Brawlfest
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    Yeah I pretty much agree with the above post, I think the set should pretty much be identical to Dewgong but with Roar > Perish Song. I'll do a full check later I guess.

    Also
    wat?
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  5. FLCL

    FLCL
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    set name should be specially defensive or something
    ice beam should be slashed before surf although i think both should be on the set since you get coverage on steel, rock, ice, and fire types

    [SET]
    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Encore
    move 2: Toxic
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Surf / Protect / Roar
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Calm
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
  6. Metal Sonic

    Metal Sonic Turn it up!
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    Will work on this when I get home


    Can I get confirmation on the set?
    Dat blast and flcl give conflicting sets
  7. Lolk

    Lolk you can't stop the beat
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    So over discussion on irc, we decided that the set should be:

    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Toxic
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Roar / Encore
    move 4: Surf / Protect
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Calm
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD

    just mention that Roar and Encore are both options for disrupting setup sweepers. Roar is a safer option, and Encore has a greater risk greater reward. All of my other points are still pretty important, too, so I highly suggest you implement them as well.
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  8. Soulgazer

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    [SET COMMENTS]

    Move Thick Fat comment first.

    Surf isn't only used for that. It also hits neutrally Steel-types which are immune to Toxic and takes nothing from Ice Beam. Also help with other Fire-types such as Torkoal and Camerupt and do more damage do Armaldo & co.


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    I think I explained this on Dewgong too, and since they are so similar you could just go back and find my post about this, but TLDR Rapid Spin isn't 'vital', its just nice if you end up having it; Pokemon like Sawk, Torterra, and Serperior can be great partners and can also easily prevent Stealth Rock.

    You could also add some Ground-types like Golem which is immune to Electric-types and can take Rock-type attacks for Walrein, while Walrein can take any Water- and Ice-type attack for it.

    [Other Options]
    Hail is really bad, but since Stallrein might make some people try it, make sure you explain how bad it is in NU and how Walrein needs all its moves on the set.

    [Checks and Counters]

    Bulletpoint please u_u

    Metal Sonic do this and I'll check later
  9. Metal Sonic

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    implemented all
  10. Soulgazer

    Soulgazer ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ
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    Not in the Overview -`/

    [Checks and Counters]

    Can you completly remove the text and put everything in bulletpoint

    Also, I wouldn't even mention 'rapid spinner' as a check or a counter, and would only mention it if there's an actual Rapid Spin user that threaten to KO Walrein.

    Metal Sonic
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2013
  11. Soulgazer

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    [Overview]

    Remove the 95 special attack part, we will be able to see its stats at the top and it doesn't add anything interesting.

    also remove hail mention.

    [SET COMMENTS]
    Put these all together (and correctly).

    [Checks and Counters]

    Add some Electric- and Fighting-types.

    Metal Sonic
  12. Metal Sonic

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  13. Soulgazer

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  14. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast formerly Brawlfest
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    [Overview]
    • Don't put so much emphasis on Roar since it's only a slash. It's fine to mention it has it over Regice, but don't act like it's the main selling point. You could also add how the Water typing lets Walrein take on Water-types and Steel-types better.
    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Rearrange the bullet points so it mentions (from first to last): Toxic, Ice Beam, Roar, Encore, Surf, Protect.
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Mention how max SpD allows Walrein to take on Charizard, Jynx, and special Samurott. Also mention that a physically defensive spread can be used to beat SD Samurott and Ground-types easier.
    [Other Options]
    • Stallrein can't actually use Ice Rock--since you need both Lefties AND Ice Body recovery to abuse it, I'd just say manual hail doesn't give you enough time to use Stallrein.
    [Checks and Counters]
    • Get rid of Grass / Poisons since Ice Beam hurts. Mention that Grass-types in general can only check Walrein because they don't want to switch directly into Ice Beam. If you're gonna give a specific shoutout to anything, it should be Ludicolo, since it's neutral to Ice Beam, can heal back with Giga Drain, and only fears Toxic.
    Implement this Metal Sonic , and I'll check back later.
  15. Metal Sonic

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  16. Dat Blast

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  17. FLCL

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    although you mentioned it in c&c, it would be better to also mention in ac (you say that it needs rapid spin support but didn't give any reasons) that walrein's weakness to stealth rocks hurts its ability to wall various pokemon such as charizard.
  18. Metal Sonic

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  19. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
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    I'm on my phone, so i can't properly check this. still, you should remove the mentions of it being a wall, which it really isn't. it is a decent tank whose main niche is dealing with common special attackers such as charizard and jynx. Just call it a decent tank basically
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  20. Metal Sonic

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  21. Kingler12345

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    Metal Sonic
    The grammar of the analysis, unfortunately, has quite a lot of errors.
    c/p this one into the OP:
    So, you can just c/p this(except for that last comment which you should put info in).
    This does not count towards your 2 checks, but just noticed quite a few errors. Please try to minimize these.
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  22. FLCL

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    the second sentence in the overview is misleading as nobody ever uses walrein in ou. maybe in uu though

    Meanwhile, Walrein can reliably take down the Rock- and Ground-types that force Torkoal out, as a Surf can easily end said Rock- and Ground-types.

    walrein probably takes a lot of damage from stone edge or earthquake from either type since it's not investing in defense so i would remove this point

    also your wording is weird but i guess gp will fix that
  23. Metal Sonic

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  24. FLCL

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    qc 3/3
  25. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    Metal Sonic
    Additions
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    [Overview]
    (line break)
    <p>Walrein can function as a decent tank thanks to its awesome bulk. While it is usually seen using its ability Ice Body alongside hail in the higher tiers, unfortunately, such a set unfortunately cannot be used in NU as hail is banned, meaning it has to use Thick Fat as its ability. Even though Regice hits harder, which along with its better defenses makes it a better choice as an Ice-type(add role) most of the time, Walrein's good Special Attack allows it to hit decently hard as well. The lack of reliable recovery is a burden, however. Walrein's niche over Regice is that it can handle Charizard better thanks to its Fire resistance granted by Thick Fat; Roar is another move Walrein has over its competitors. A Water typing helps Walrein to take on Water- and Steel-types better, allowing Walrein to function as a decent tank that the opponent might have trouble breaking. Walrein's lack of recovery, however, limits its effectiveness as a tank.(point was irrelevant there; reword this if you like)</p>

    [SET]
    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Toxic
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Roar / Encore
    move 4: Surf / Protect
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Calm
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Thick Fat gives Walrein helpful resistances to Fire- and Ice-type moves, which lets Walrein stand up to powerful Fire-type attacks, notably a Charizard's Choice Specs Fire Blast. Walrein's great bulk along with Thick Fat means that it has no trouble taking Water-, Ice-, and Fire-type attacks from the likes of Samurott, Jynx, and Charizard, respectively. Toxic is an essential move for Walrein, as it wears down the opponent over the course of the match. Ice Beam is its choice of STAB move and lets it hit Flying-, Grass-, and Ground-type opponents(this seems like filler so imo mention specific targets; you can keep it if you like, however). Surf is Walrein's method of disposing of Charizard immediately, and is its only mode of doing any real damage to Steel-types that shrug off an Ice Beam with ease and are immune to Toxic. Surf also helps with other Fire-types, such as Torkoal and Camerupt, and does more damage to the likes of Armaldo as well. Roar and Encore are both options for disrupting setup sweepers; while Roar is the safer move, allowing Walrein to phaze and rack up hazard damage, Encore can lock the opponent into disadvantageous moves, such as a stat-boosting move or Substitute, and thus lets Walrein's teammate set up on said threat. Walrein is hampered by its lack of access to reliable recovery and the banning of hail in Neverused, which is a letdown considering its great bulk. Protect somewhat mitigates this by letting Walrein get extra Leftovers recovery and rack up Toxic damage.</p>


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A specially defensive spread allows Walrein to take on Charizard, Jynx, and special Samurott. However, you can opt to use a physically defensive set, which boasts the ability to take on Swords Dance Samurott and most Ground-types with ease. Super Fang is a viable move which can halve the opponent's health which and works really well against the Pokemon that can handle this set, such as Regice and Metang. However, since Walrein can actually deal decent damage thanks to its base 95 Special Attack, it is usually not necessary. </p>

    <p>Hazard support is great to take advantage of Walrein's stalling ability and to use in conjunction with Roar. Great teammates for Walrein include those that can set up both Spikes and Toxic Spikes, such as Scolipede, Roselia,(AC) and Garbodor,(RC) .(AP) In addition, they resist the Grass- and Fighting-type attacks that Walrein dislikes and can also force the Grass-types that use said Grass-type moves out. Meanwhile, Walrein can deal with the Ground- and Rock-types that these hazard setters loathe by forcing them out due to the threat of Surf. Rapid Spin support is nice to have for Walrein, as Walrein's weakness to Stealth Rock hurts its ability to take on various Pokemon, such as Charizard. Pokemon such as Sawk, Torterra, and Serperior are great partners and can also easily prevent Stealth Rock. Torkoal is the best spinner for Walrein's team to use, as not only can it set up Stealth Rock and set it up itself, but it also takes Grass-type attacks for Walrein. Additionally, Torkoal can act as a physically defensive tank and Walrein act acts as a specially defensive tank, making the combination of these two Pokemon a solid core. Some Ground-types like such as Golem pair well with Walrein, as they are immune to Electric and can take Rock-type attacks for Walrein, while Walrein can take any Water- and Ice-type attack attacks for them. Exeggutor is also a great teammate for Walrein; it can take the Fighting- and Grass-type attacks aimed at Walrein, while Walrein can remove pesky Fire- and Flying-types for Exeggutor.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>A Life Orb or Choice Specs set is viable, as Walrein's Special Attack and type coverage is pretty decent. A physical Curse set can be used to take advantage of Walrein's great bulk, but Walrein's multitude of weaknesses to common types such as Fighting and Grass makes make it unable to set up safely. Finally, manual hail can be used to utilize the unbreakable stallrein strategy, but 5 turns isn't nearly enough to properly execute said strategy.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Walrein is worn down easily by entry hazards&mdash;Stealth Rock takes out a chunk of its health, and it gets worn down by Spikes very quickly as well. Due to its multiple common weaknesses, it is easy to threaten and force Walrein out, thus racking up the hazards hazard damage that Walrein takes. Grass-types can only check Walrein because they don't want to switch directly into Ice Beam, but they can easily 2HKO Walrein, meaning that they almost always win against it one-on-one. Most Electric- and Fighting-types with decent offensive presence, such as Electabuzz, Ampharos, Sawk and Gurdurr, can easily force Walrein out as well. Ludicolo is exceptionally especially threatening to Walrein, since it's only hit neutrally by Ice Beam, can heal itself back with Giga Drain, and only really fears Toxic. Clerics, including but not limited to Audino and Musharna, and RestTalk users, can easily cleanse themselves of Toxic poison and stall Walrein out. Steel-types are in a similar vein, with opponents such as Metang being immune to Toxic and resisting Ice Beam, while retaliating with a painful Meteor Mash. Finally, Taunt users, particularly Mandibuzz and Misdreavus, can temporarily halt Walrein's usage of support moves and can also cripple Walrein with Will-O-Wisp or Toxic, respectively.</p>

    GP 1/2
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2013
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