Wartortle (QC 1/3)

[Gourghost]

this is my first analysis, im wondering how it will play out

Overview
########

Pro's:

• Is the only viable Pokemon that can use Rapid Spin + Foresight succesfully in the tier.
• Good bulk on both sides that can be boosted further by Eviolite and a decent defensive typing.
• Wartortle's niche over Avalugg lies in being able to guarantee a Rapid Spin against Ghost-types by hitting them on the switch-in with Foresight.

Cons:

• Faces heavy competition from Avalugg as a spinner due to its access to Roar and better offensive presence.
• Wartortle's niche lies in being able to guarantee a Rapid Spin against Ghost-types by hitting them on the switch-in with Foresight, as well as a better defensive typing.
• Wartortle's good bulk is somewhat let down by its mediocre HP, that means that Wartortle works best on stall and balanced teams due to their ability to make up for the momentum loss with their walls.
• Weak offensive stats and extreme set up bait that cause a huge momentum loss when Wartortle is sent in against offensive teams.
• No reliable recovery.
• Very item-reliant.

Rapid Spin
########
name: Rapid Spin
move 1: Rapid Spin
move 2: Scald
move 3: Foresight
move 4: Toxic
ability: Torrent
item: Eviolite
evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
nature: Bold

Moves
========

• Rapid Spin is the main use on this set, as it removes hazards without removing eventual own entry hazards, unlike Defog.
• Scald is useful as it has a good chance to burn and cripple physical attackers by preventing them from sweeping.
• Foresight ensures Wartortle to pull off a Rapid Spin against Ghost-types after use.
• Toxic limits the opponent's longevity by inflicting increasing damage every turn the opponent stays in.
  
• Seismic Toss provides the same amount of damage every time it attacks and benefits from Foresight and can break most Substitues, but Scald is better in most situations as it can burn Pokemon.

Set Details
========

• Torrent is the standard option, as Rain Dish provides even less usefulness.
• Eviolite directly boosts up Wartortle's defenses on both sides.
• The EVs and nature invested maximize Wartortle's physical bulk, and Water-types are better suit for taking on physical attackers.
• A specially defensive spread of 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD can also be used in order to tank special hits better.

Usage Tips
========

• First thing you should do when sending in Wartortle is basically using Rapid Spin if the opponent has set up hazards on your side.
• When predicting a Ghost-type Pokemon to come in, use Foresight in order to allow Wartortle to Rapid Spin the hazards away directly the turn after.
  
• Use Scald on a predicted switch-in to finish off an opponent quickly when it is at slightly low HP.
• Use Toxic against Pokemon without cleric support, walls, and Pokemon that are immune to Water.
  
• Only stay in with Wartortle whenever the opponent or Wartortle is at low HP, or when Wartortle is the best option against a particular threat.

Team Options
========

• Roselia deserves a special mention, as it has good synergy with Wartortle, resists both its weaknesses and is cleric as it has access to Aromatherapy.
• Wartortle is better placed on balance or stall teams as these can handle the loss of momentum.
• Pokemon such as Dodrio, Flareon, and Rotom-F which appreciate the clearance of hazards, make good partners.
• Allies that can beat up Electric-types that threaten Wartortle, such as Marowak, Piloswine, and Torterra, as these kind of Pokemon take out Wartortle with ease.
• Allies that can defeat Grass-types that threaten Wartortle, such as Ninetales and Rotom-Frost, as these kind of Pokemon easily deal with Wartortle.
  
• Cleric support is useful too from Pokemon such as Lickilicky and Altaria, and the latter one can also handle Electric- and Grass-type Pokemon well.
• Wish support from Pokemon such as Lickilicky, that can also provide cleric support, is particularly useful, as Wartortle cannot recover on its own.

Other Options
########

• Yawn grants (a) free turn(s) after inflicting sleep on the opponent, but as Scald and Toxic already inflict status and are much better, Yawn isn't good.
• Haze stops setup sweepers from doing work, but is much better done by Pokemon such as Garbodor.
• Rest provides the only recovery Wartortle has access to and can be used with cleric support.
  
• A set of Counter + Mirror Coat is an option, but as Wartortle cannot use Taunt it doesn't provide much utility. Aside from that, you need to predict well whether a physical or special attack is used by the opponent.

Checks & Counters
########

**Grass-types**: Grass-types, such as Tangela, Roselia or Gourgeist, can either stall Wartortle out by putting it to sleep, as that prevents it from using Rapid Spin, inflict Leech Seed on it, or directly KO it with one of their supereffective STAB moves.

**Electric-types*: Electric-types, such as Raichu or Rotom-Frost, can beat Wartortle quite easily with one of their STAB moves.

**Set up Sweepers**: Pokemon that can set up, especially those behind a Substitute, such as Bouffalant and Calm Mind Serperior can easily defeat Wartortle as Wartortle is extreme setup bait.

**Knock Off**: As Wartortle is very item-reliant, Knock Off can remove it and allow other Pokemon to beat up Wartortle pretty quickly.

**Status**: As Wartortle lacks reliable recovery or cleric support, status, especially Poison, can bring it down to low health pretty quickly.

 

[Anty]

e:

I might as well use this post usefully. Forseight should be used over magic coat

 

[Darnell]

Wartortle already has an analysis in progress, sorry

Cranham dropped it

EDIT: Good luck on your first analysis Gourghost; I have some experience with Wartortle so if you need some help feel free to come to #pu

 

[Gourghost]

Wartortle already has an analysis in progress, sorry

The original writer unreserved the analysis

 

[Gourghost]

i think qc members can have a go at this ^^

 

[Anty]

Im not quality control but i have experience with wartortle. Firstly i have to say that this is well written, especcially for a first analysis. In the overview, mention its niche over avalugg (being not weak to rocks), also mention how it is offensively weak. The 8 in special defense isnt worth noting, however i assume you dont run 252 hp to live another stealth rock switch in. In team options, mention how lickilicky can also provide Heal Bell support. For checks and counters i would remove the bit about 'hyper offensive attackers', wartortle can take neutral attacks (can live 2 lo tauros rock climbs!), instead, add Knock Off, as wartortle heavily relies on its item (you might want to mention that in the overview), and Set Up Sweepers, it has no chance of breaking serperiors/bouffalants substitutes (for example). Good job though.

 

[Gourghost]

Im not quality control but i have experience with wartortle. Firstly i have to say that this is well written, especcially for a first analysis. In the overview, mention its niche over avalugg (being not weak to rocks), also mention how it is offensively weak. The 8 in special defense isnt worth noting, however i assume you dont run 252 hp to live another stealth rock switch in. In team options, mention how lickilicky can also provide Heal Bell support. For checks and counters i would remove the bit about 'hyper offensive attackers', wartortle can take neutral attacks (can live 2 lo tauros rock climbs!), instead, add Knock Off, as wartortle heavily relies on its item (you might want to mention that in the overview), and Set Up Sweepers, it has no chance of breaking serperiors/bouffalants substitutes (for example). Good job though.

Thank you! I have implemented your changes!

 

[WhiteDMist]

Overview
########
- You don't really need to separate pros and cons, since in the end its all going to be written up, but w.e.
- For point 1, add in the fact that it is the only viable Pokemon with Foresight and Rapid Spin
- Merge points 2 and 4, they go together
- Ditch the Scald mention
- It's abilities aren't that useful, but Torrent boosted Scalds are enough that you don't really need to make a special mention of it. Remove.
- It's not that limited, it actually has a bunch of moves that it would like to use, but lacks room for. Remove or reword this point.
- What distinguished Wartortle from Avalugg, what teams does it work best on? That's what we're looking for in the Overview.

Bulky Rapid Spin
########
- Rename this "Rapid Spin"

Moves
========
- IMO Seismic Toss needs a mention in Moves, not too big of a deal.

Usage Tips
========
- Switch points 2 and 3 around
- Last point can be repeated in Overview
- The Toxic point can be improved a bit. Add n that it works well against special attackers and Water immune Pokemon, notably Tangela and Poliwrath

Team Options
========
- I guess Dodrio and Rotom-F can be considered teammates on hazard stacking teams, but honestly Wartortle isn't a great choice on such offensive teams. More defensive teammates would work better.
- Cleric support might be worth a mention, and you can mention Lickilcky and Altaria, who deal with the Electric and Grass mons better than a generic state about Dragons (of which I'm not really sold on).
- Examples about hazard users plz

Other Options
########
- Remove Aqua Ring, mention Rest with cleric support instead if you want to mention recovery at all

Checks & Counters
########
- Grass-types are probably the top counters, most notably Tangela and Roselia. They not only hit it super effectively with their STAB, they can also stop it from spinning with Sleep Powder. Resistance to Scald (and immunity to Toxic in the latter's case) just makes them even better. Grass-types lacking Sleep Powder, notably Serperior and Gourgeist, still have type advantage and can pressure Wartortle to minimize the amount of chances it has to spin.
- Offensive Pokemon don't really stop it, as it can live most attacks and spin, Scald, or Toxic.
- Implement all of Anty's stuff

Not bad at all for your first analysis. Keep up the good work!

 

[Gourghost]

Overview
########
- You don't really need to separate pros and cons, since in the end its all going to be written up, but w.e.
- For point 1, add in the fact that it is the only viable Pokemon with Foresight and Rapid Spin
- Merge points 2 and 4, they go together
- Ditch the Scald mention
- It's abilities aren't that useful, but Torrent boosted Scalds are enough that you don't really need to make a special mention of it. Remove.
- It's not that limited, it actually has a bunch of moves that it would like to use, but lacks room for. Remove or reword this point.
- What distinguished Wartortle from Avalugg, what teams does it work best on? That's what we're looking for in the Overview.

Bulky Rapid Spin
########
- Rename this "Rapid Spin"

Moves
========
- IMO Seismic Toss needs a mention in Moves, not too big of a deal.

Usage Tips
========
- Switch points 2 and 3 around
- Last point can be repeated in Overview
- The Toxic point can be improved a bit. Add n that it works well against special attackers and Water immune Pokemon, notably Tangela and Poliwrath

Team Options
========
- I guess Dodrio and Rotom-F can be considered teammates on hazard stacking teams, but honestly Wartortle isn't a great choice on such offensive teams. More defensive teammates would work better.
- Cleric support might be worth a mention, and you can mention Lickilcky and Altaria, who deal with the Electric and Grass mons better than a generic state about Dragons (of which I'm not really sold on).
- Examples about hazard users plz

Other Options
########
- Remove Aqua Ring, mention Rest with cleric support instead if you want to mention recovery at all

Checks & Counters
########
- Grass-types are probably the top counters, most notably Tangela and Roselia. They not only hit it super effectively with their STAB, they can also stop it from spinning with Sleep Powder. Resistance to Scald (and immunity to Toxic in the latter's case) just makes them even better. Grass-types lacking Sleep Powder, notably Serperior and Gourgeist, still have type advantage and can pressure Wartortle to minimize the amount of chances it has to spin.
- Offensive Pokemon don't really stop it, as it can live most attacks and spin, Scald, or Toxic.
- Implement all of Anty's stuff

Not bad at all for your first analysis. Keep up the good work!

I think I implemented your changes in the analysis, thanks!

 

[Ares]

One thing that I think really needs to be stressed in the Overview is how much of a momentum sink Wartortle is. You touch on it with:

• Weak offensive stats.
• Set up bait.

These can be combined together ending with how much of a momentum loser Wartortle is. Also mention that Avalugg has access to Roar that prevents it from being set up bait (another reason not to use Wartortle :<)

In TO I think this also needs to be highlighted. You have mentionings of the types of teams that Wartortle likes to be placed on but specifically say that Wartortle is better placed on Balanace teams and possibly Stall (idk about Stall teams but balance definitely), and then say this is because balance teams and stall teams can better account for the loss of momentum that Wartortle causes.

 

[Gourghost]

One thing that I think really needs to be stressed in the Overview is how much of a momentum sink Wartortle is. You touch on it with:

• Weak offensive stats.
• Set up bait.

These can be combined together ending with how much of a momentum loser Wartortle is. Also mention that Avalugg has access to Roar that prevents it from being set up bait (another reason not to use Wartortle :<)

In TO I think this also needs to be highlighted. You have mentionings of the types of teams that Wartortle likes to be placed on but specifically say that Wartortle is better placed on Balanace teams and possibly Stall (idk about Stall teams but balance definitely), and then say this is because balance teams and stall teams can better account for the loss of momentum that Wartortle causes.

I have edited your suggestions! Thanks for the input ^^

 

[Ares]

I have edited your suggestions! Thanks for the input ^^

You sort of did, you combined the points I suggested but then didnt stress that these things cause a huge momentum loss. And then in TO you mentioned that it fits better on balance and stall but not why those teams dont mind the momentum loss. (they dont mind it because they have different walls to switch into and whatnot).

 

[WhiteDMist]

Honestly, for the Overview, it's not true that Wartotle works better than Avalugg on stall and balanced teams (hell most of the time I would use Avalugg for all types of teams). I believe that was not what you meant, but you should separate these points because it will give people the wrong idea. Wartortle is only used if you absolutely need to spin against Ghost-types. Make the points look like:

• Faces heavy competition from Avalugg as a spinner due to its access to Roar and better offensive presence.
• Wartortle's niche lies in being able to guarantee a Rapid Spin against Ghost-types by hitting them on the switch-in with Foresight.
• Wartortle works best on stall and balanced teams due to their ability to make up for the momentum loss with their walls.

Btw, for the cons, points 1 and 4 should be merged.

In Moves, Seismic Toss provides consistent damage as it benefits from Foresight and can break most Substitutes. Scald is less consistent but it can burn stuff.

In Set Details, explain why physically defensive spread is better.

In Usage Tips, I don't like your points stating that Wartortle should stay in and spam Scald. That is the definition of being set up bait/momentum drain. You want Wartortle in as little as possible to avoid your opponent taking advantage of its poor offensive presence, especially on balanced teams that have a limited amount of defensive answers to threats. Unless Wartortle is at low HP, Scald can finish something off, or you actually need Wartortle to handle the particular threat (good luck with that), you should not keep it in. I also don't like your point about Toxic on non clerics, just say that you should use Toxic on walls, special attackers, or Water-immune mons.

In Team Options, good luck beating opposing Grass-types with Torterra or Tangela. Why not just separate the points about Electric-types and Grass-types so that you can find teammates that deal with these types separately? You also need a more convincing argument for entry hazard teammates, as every Pokemon appreciates hazard support. What in particular makes them worthy of mentioning on Wartortle's analysis specifically?

I'm alright with short points for most of the analysis, but Checks and Counters remain the same during the write-up. That means that you need to b more detailed about them. You haven't explained why each of them counters Wartortle, which I had already explained to you in my previous post.

A lot of what you are missing centers around the WHY, HOW and WHEN questions. Remember, we don't really need you to explain what something does if we can see it in the stats and movepool already. Fix what I and Montsegur wrote about and I'll check again.

 

[Gourghost]

Honestly, for the Overview, it's not true that Wartotle works better than Avalugg on stall and balanced teams (hell most of the time I would use Avalugg for all types of teams). I believe that was not what you meant, but you should separate these points because it will give people the wrong idea. Wartortle is only used if you absolutely need to spin against Ghost-types. Make the points look like:

• Faces heavy competition from Avalugg as a spinner due to its access to Roar and better offensive presence.
• Wartortle's niche lies in being able to guarantee a Rapid Spin against Ghost-types by hitting them on the switch-in with Foresight.
• Wartortle works best on stall and balanced teams due to their ability to make up for the momentum loss with their walls.

Btw, for the cons, points 1 and 4 should be merged.

In Moves, Seismic Toss provides consistent damage as it benefits from Foresight and can break most Substitutes. Scald is less consistent but it can burn stuff.

In Set Details, explain why physically defensive spread is better.

In Usage Tips, I don't like your points stating that Wartortle should stay in and spam Scald. That is the definition of being set up bait/momentum drain. You want Wartortle in as little as possible to avoid your opponent taking advantage of its poor offensive presence, especially on balanced teams that have a limited amount of defensive answers to threats. Unless Wartortle is at low HP, Scald can finish something off, or you actually need Wartortle to handle the particular threat (good luck with that), you should not keep it in. I also don't like your point about Toxic on non clerics, just say that you should use Toxic on walls, special attackers, or Water-immune mons.

In Team Options, good luck beating opposing Grass-types with Torterra or Tangela. Why not just separate the points about Electric-types and Grass-types so that you can find teammates that deal with these types separately? You also need a more convincing argument for entry hazard teammates, as every Pokemon appreciates hazard support. What in particular makes them worthy of mentioning on Wartortle's analysis specifically?

I'm alright with short points for most of the analysis, but Checks and Counters remain the same during the write-up. That means that you need to b more detailed about them. You haven't explained why each of them counters Wartortle, which I had already explained to you in my previous post.

A lot of what you are missing centers around the WHY, HOW and WHEN questions. Remember, we don't really need you to explain what something does if we can see it in the stats and movepool already. Fix what I and Montsegur wrote about and I'll check again.

I think I've edited this in the analysis ^^ Please tell me if I missed out something :)

 

[g]

I would also mention that one niche over avalugg is its way better typing

Mention that Water is better suit at taking physical attackers and mention that a sdef spread can be used in set details

Mention Piloswine to beat electric types
with torterra

Mention Roselia as a partner for the nice synergy they have and it also beats grass-types and is a cleric

Remove raichu in setup pokemon and mention subcm serperior

 

[Gourghost]

I would also mention that one niche over avalugg is its way better typing

Mention that Water is better suit at taking physical attackers and mention that a sdef spread can be used in set details

Mention Piloswine to beat electric types
with torterra

Mention Roselia as a partner for the nice synergy they have and it also beats grass-types and is a cleric

Remove raichu in setup pokemon and mention subcm serperior

I think I've completed this, thanks for the check! ^^

 

[WhiteDMist]

Iffy on Dodrio in Team Options (I would say Flareon since it can work in both balanced and stall) but I'll leave that choice to you.

Checks and Counters needs a bit more substance, but especially on the Grass-types. Grass-types beat Wartortle because many of them can put it to Sleep and stop it from spinning, in addition to their STABs. The Gougeist formes may not reliably stop it from spinning due to Foresight, but they can Burn and Leech Seed stall it, and use Protect or even Phantom Force to evade Rapid Spin every other turn.

Finally, reorder Other Options so that it goes in this order: Yawn, Haze, Rest, Counter + Mirror Coat.

Do this and

qc 1/3

 

[Gourghost]

Iffy on Dodrio in Team Options (I would say Flareon since it can work in both balanced and stall) but I'll leave that choice to you.

Checks and Counters needs a bit more substance, but especially on the Grass-types. Grass-types beat Wartortle because many of them can put it to Sleep and stop it from spinning, in addition to their STABs. The Gougeist formes may not reliably stop it from spinning due to Foresight, but they can Burn and Leech Seed stall it, and use Protect or even Phantom Force to evade Rapid Spin every other turn.

Finally, reorder Other Options so that it goes in this order: Yawn, Haze, Rest, Counter + Mirror Coat.

Do this and

qc 1/3

I think I've done this all, thanks ^^

I also decided to mention Flareon alongside Dodrio.