1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Water Arceus (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Furai, Dec 27, 2011.

  1. Furai

    Furai wellfare
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,844
    Taken over from Anachronism. || ***Theorymon's nitpicks

    Is it just me or Waterceus looks pretty awesome?


    Code:
    [B]QC Checks:[/B] Fireburn, shrang, barry4ever
    [B]GP Checks:[/B] New World Order, NatGeo
    [B]AF Checks:[/B] Fireburn, shrang, barry4ever
    
    [Overview]

    <p>The Creator emerges from the depths of the ocean, holding a Splash Plate, using the essential liquid of life to unleash a devastating wave of destruction and end the life that He created eons ago. While He created Kyogre to rule the seas, and Manaphy to strike fear into those who cross the ocean, both cannot function without rain support, unlike the oldest Pokemon. However, Water Arceus does have His downfalls. Water is a poor defensive typing in the Ubers metagame, being weak to common Electric- and Grass-type moves. Water Arceus also receives a lot of competition from Kyogre, Manaphy, and Palkia—but don't let these drawbacks fool you, as Water Arceus gets access to two forms of setup; Swords Dance and Calm Mind, making Him very difficult to counter. Water Arceus's wide coverage and godly stat distribution make Him a true monster. Let it be known that Water Arceus is ready to show the nonbelievers that He is the true ruler of the oceans and seas.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Swords Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Waterfall
    move 3: Dragon Claw / Brick Break
    move 4: Recover / ExtremeSpeed
    item: Splash Plate
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    nature: Jolly / Adamant

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Water Arceus has an excellent niche in Ubers as a physical attacker, where it only faces true competition from the uncommon Kabutops. The EV spread for this set simply maximizes Speed and Attacking power, eschewing bulk for raw muscle. Just set up a Swords Dance or two and attempt a quick sweep, preferably aided by rain support to further power up its STAB Waterfall. The combination of Waterfall and Dragon Claw hits the vast majority of pokemon for at least neutral damage, and even a resisted Waterfall in rain is monstrous. After a Swords Dance, rain-boosted Waterfall will even 2HKO minimum HP Giratina-O, OHKO max HP Normal Arceus, and OHKO Standard Lugia after Stealth Rock damage. Waterfall also deals 47% - 55.4% to max HP Dialga, and does 49.7% - 58.8% to specially defensive Ferrothorn. Dragon Claw gets the nod, however, as it is the only way that this Arceus can deal appreciable damage to Giratina, which is still never 2HKOed by the attack. It also has the added advantage of KOing Palkia after a Swords Dance. Brick Break will allow Water Arceus to eliminate Ferrothorn and Dialga even more easily if you don't want to risk such a narrow 2HKO. Recover provides Arceus greater survivability and therefore a longer lifespan on the battlefield, whereas ExtremeSpeed synergizes well with Dragon Claw, allowing Water Arceus to pick off Palkia and Rayquaza switch-ins.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Kyogre is a must for this set, as permanent rain ensures that Waterfall will deal as much damage as possible while also ensuring that sun is kept out of play. As evidenced above, rain is necessary for gaining quite a few relevant OHKOs and 2HKOs. Kyogre also makes a solid answer to Groudon, as do Gliscor, Skarmory, and Lugia. Spikes support is very useful for this set, as it wears down opposing grounded Pokemon, such as Giratina and Ferrothorn, and further weaken Groudon and opposing Choice Scarf users. Forretress and Skarmory are competent Spikers, and can use Giratina and Ferrothorn to lay down multiple layers of Spikes, especially if getting burned isn't too concerning. Skarmory can follow up with Whirlwind phazing, while Forretress can Rapid Spin away opposing Spikes and Toxic Spikes against Ferrothorn. A Ferrothorn of your own is a good teammate, as it can set up Spikes too. It might not be able to beat opposing Ferrothorn, but it is an excellent switch in to Electric- and Grass-type attacks, as well as Kyogre and Zekrom, two potentially serious threats to this set. Excadrill, Garchomp, Dialga, and Wobbuffet are good checks for Zekrom, who outspeeds Water Arceus when equipped with a Choice Scarf and OHKOes it with Bolt Strike. Wobbuffet also gives Water Arceus another chance to set up Swords Dance by using Encore.</p>

    <p>While Arceus can 2HKO any Kyogre with boosted Waterfall, Specs Kyogre can OHKO in return with Thunder, so having something such as Ferrothorn or Dialga to absorb Thunder and other Electric-type attacks would be very useful. Dialga sets up Stealth Rock and takes Grass-, Water-, and Electric-type moves with an ease, and as mentioned before, Dialga is capable of taking a Bolt Strike from Zekrom. Chansey is also a great partner for Water Arceus, as she is more than capable of taking Thunders and any other special attack aimed at Arceus, subduing everything threatening other than Ferrothorn, Zekrom, and some Shaymin-S variants. All of these Pokemon are capable of coming in on Giratina to absorb pesky Will-O-Wisps as well, although only Dialga is truly threatening it. Shaymin-S is especially threatening, as it is faster than Water Arceus and carries a super effective Seed Flare. Dialga is a good answer to Shaymin-S, being able to tank all of Shaymin-S's moves bar Earth Power, and strike back with a STAB-boosted Draco Meteor or phaze Shaymin-S with Roar or Dragon Tail. Ferrothorn is another good check to Shaymin-S, though it will lose to the SubSeed set. If taking an offensive route, your main goal is to lure in and take out Groudon. Mixed Bulk Up Dialga, Mixed Rayquaza, and Mixed Zekrom are all capable of doing in Groudon by pretending to be physical and then laying down the hurt with a Draco Meteor on Groudon's weak side if it unfortunate enough to be fooled by this ruse.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Calm Mind
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Judgment
    move 3: Spacial Rend / Ice Beam
    move 4: Fire Blast / Thunder
    item: Splash Plate
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Timid

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Calm Mind is typically an excellent option for Arceus formes, and Water Arceus is no exception. It is important to recognize, however, that this set competes directly with Calm Mind Kyogre and Manaphy. Higher HP, Defense, and Speed are all important distinguishing factors here, and Water Arceus gets the bonus of having much wider coverage. Judgment serves as a dependable STAB attack, and in conjunction with Spacial Rend, Water Arceus can hit nearly the entire metagame for at least neutral damage, only missing out on Ferrothorn and the almost nonexistent Shedinja and Empoleon. A +1 Spacial Rend can 2HKO Giratina-O, OHKO Rayquaza after it has taken Stealth Rock damage, and can OHKO Palkia after 2 switch-ins into Stealth Rock. It should be noted that you should use Judgment on Pokemon that resist it, as in rain it will still do more than Spacial Rend. Ice Beam is a decent option for hitting opposing Dragon- and Grass-type Pokemon if you do not like Spacial Rend or are using Thunder. Fire Blast is an extremely solid option for denting the problematic Ferrothorn, 2HKOing it after a Calm Mind even in rain. It can also 2HKO Dialga, max HP Arceus, Mewtwo (even after a Calm Mind boost), and Wobbuffet. Thunder is also a good option to hit opposing Kyogre that may otherwise attempt to race you to 6 Calm Minds, although this is typically of secondary concern compared to KOing Ferrothorn dependably.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>If a healing move is more important than a coverage move, one move can be replaced with Recover. In case Water Arceus switched into a single layer of Toxic Spikes or got burned, it can beat Chansey or Blissey under rain by setting up Calm Minds and using Recover when needed. Once again, Kyogre support is very much appreciated, although this set can function perfectly fine without it; it is preferred that a team with Water Arceus has a way to remove the sun's harmful rays. A Choiced set is best, since you don't want your Kyogre to take Arceus's job on the team by using Calm Mind.</p>

    <p>Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Forretress are excellent partners with Water Arceus, as all of them can provide Spikes support. Skarmory and Forretress are excellent answers to opposing Ferrothorn, as the former can Whirlwind it out to rack up damage or simply nullify any attempts to Spike with Taunt, or in the case of Forretress, Rapid Spin. While Ferrothorn doesn't answer opposing Ferrothorn all that well, it is the premier Zekrom counter and it checks opposing Calm Mind Kyogre admirably. All three aforementioned teammates can also set up on the problematic Blissey and Chansey. Mixed Dialga and physically based Mixed Palkia can lure in both with ease and OHKO with their powerful STAB moves. However, the blobs are ironically good partners, as they can soak up status and powerful special attacks, such as Thunder or Grass Knot, that have the potential to break through your Water Arceus's boosts. Specially defensive Dialga is a great teammate as well, as it can come in on Electric- and Grass- attacks, Blissey, Chansey, Ferrothorn, or Grass Arceus and set up Stealth Rock or accumulate Bulk Up boosts. Heatran, while not synergistic with rain, can do essentially the same thing as Dialga bar stacking Bulk Up boosts, but can also switch into Giratina without getting burned and force out opposing Bulk Up Dialga.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Defensive Calm Mind
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Surf / Judgment
    move 4: Will-O-Wisp / Refresh
    item: Splash Plate
    evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Timid

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>At a first glance, this set may seem outclassed by Kyogre and Manaphy. However, neither Kyogre or Manaphy can function without the presence of rain, while Water Arceus can. This set differs from the Offensive Calm Mind set because in the Offensive set, in order to use Recover, you have to give up on a coverage move. Doing so will cause Water Arceus to fall against one of its counters, depending on which move was given up. In this set, Water Arceus can burn Pokemon that bother him, such as Zekrom, Groudon, Bulk Up Dialga, and Rayquaza, with Will-O-Wisp. Refresh, however, is a solid option over Will-O-Wisp if you wish Water Arceus to be a phenomenal stallbreaker. Calm Mind is this set's boosting move, and when used with Will-O-Wisp, Water Arceus becomes extremely bulky. The choice between Surf and Judgment as Water Arceus's only attacking move is up to the user; Judgment has an extra 5 Base Power over Surf, but Surf has 8 more PP.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread is straightforward; 252 HP EVs gives Water Arceus optimal bulk, while 252 Speed EVs with Timid Nature lets it speed tie with other Arceus forms. An alternate EV spread of 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe can be used if looking for a more defensive set.</p>

    <p>While this set may work outside of rain, it does not mean it will not enjoy it. Rain boosts up Water Arceus's sole STAB move and makes it much stronger, so Kyogre makes an ideal partner. Ferrothorn counters both Kyogre and Water Arceus; however, it will not enjoy the burn at all. Lustrous Orb Palkia is an amazing Ferrothorn lure, being able to bluff a Choice item, so Ferrothorn will stay in the so-called locked move, and then get struck by a super effective Fire Blast. This set really appreciates entry hazards, especially Toxic Spikes, as they weaken Water Arceus's counters and allow it to sweep much more easily. Ferrothorn is a good partner, as it resists Electric- and Grass-type attacks aimed at Water Arceus. Water Arceus does not appreciate opposing entry hazards though, so a spinner is recommended. Forretress and Excadrill are good partners; while the former deserves a special mention for setting up entry hazards as well, both spinners work well under rain, as it decreases their Fire-type weaknesses. If not running Refresh, Water Arceus will not enjoy being poisoned, so a Cleric is advised. Chansey or Blissey are the only true clerics in Ubers, being able to heal your team from status by using Heal Bell or Aromatherapy.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Water Arceus does not have many other options. Surf is a very viable option over Judgment, exchanging 5 Base Power for another 8 PP. Flamethrower can be used over Fire Blast on the Offensive Calm Mind set if you don't want to risk a miss, but the loss in power is very significant. Earth Power can be used on the same set as well, but that's very situational and only used for opposing Dialga. Focus Blast is another option, but Judgment in the rain or Fire Blast usually hits harder.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>The first step in countering Water Arceus is to bring out the sun. Not only does defensive Groudon make a decent check to physical Water Arceus variants with Dragon Tail, but the sun it summons is absolutely devastating to Arceus's STAB attack, removing the rain boost and replacing it with a global Water-type resistance. Be aware that this will empower sets with Fire Blast. Toxic Spikes can be useful for combating Water Arceus, but make sure that it is not a Calm Mind variant, as they can utilize coming in on a single layer of Toxic Spikes to ensure avoiding a badly poisoned status.</p>

    <p>Ferrothorn, Dialga, and the Giratina formes are your best bet against the Swords Dance set, just watch out for Brick Break or Dragon Claw. Even with these two coverage moves, Ferrothorn and Giratina will be able to survive easily and fire back a Power Whip, Dragon Tail, or Will-O-Wisp respectively. Defensive Grass Arceus also counters this set soundly, as it resists Waterfall and is bulky enough to take anything else. In return, it can cripple Water Arceus with status moves, such as Will-O-Wisp and Thunder Wave, or just smack it with a Judgment or Grass Knot for almost an OHKO. Shaymin-S outspeeds Arceus and can demolish it with a brutal Seed Flare or Air Slash barrage. In the way of checks, Choice Scarf Zekrom, Dialga, Palkia, and Kyogre resist Waterfall and possess solid enough defensive stats to weather any unboosted attack, firing back with a powerful super effective Bolt Strike or Thunder. If you have already gotten sun up, then any opposing Arceus set with Will-O-Wisp can render this set useless as well. If Stealth Rock and Spikes can be managed, the rare Shedinja makes a fine check to any Arceus lacking a status move or Fire Blast.</p>

    <p>Calm Mind variants of Water Arceus are another animal, as the coverage and support moves available to them can make countering it tricky. Sets without Will-O-Wisp or Fire Blast are easy targets for Ferrothorn, as it resists anything else that can be thrown at it and 2HKOs with Power Whip after Leech Seed or a switch into Stealth Rock and a single layer of Spikes. Water Arceus lacking Refresh or Recover is easily picked off by the combination of Seismic Toss and Toxic from Blissey or Chansey. Giratina formes, Dialga, and Grass Arceus can keep this set from accumulating boosts by phazing it with Dragon Tail or Roar while shrugging off anything except for a boosted Ice Beam, which still doesn't hit all that hard. However, the Giratina formes and Dialga cannot win one-on-one.</p>
  2. Furai

    Furai wellfare
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,844
    Not ready for QC checks yet, any comment though would be great. Don't QC check until I implement Theorymon's nitpicks, thanks!

    EDIT: I am probably going for a full re-write based on Anachronism's analysis, it's too messy for me.
  3. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    4,297
    While you take a look at Theorymon's nitpicks, consider Refresh on the support set that he proposed as well. It's a great Fire-type switch-in (especially against Heatran) that can fit on non-Rain teams. Also, with two layers of Toxic Spikes, it is REALLY hard to stop. Even Grass Arceus will find it difficult to stop it if you get in a Calm Mind or two before it switches in.
  4. Furai

    Furai wellfare
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,844
    CTRL + F'd Support on Tmon's nitpicks "Support" and no resluts. To add one?
  5. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    4,297
    Oops I meant the mono attacker set
  6. Furai

    Furai wellfare
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,844
    Ah, alright. Like a Manaphy on steroids outside of rain!
  7. Furai

    Furai wellfare
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,844
    Implemented all of Theorymon's nitpicks, ready for QC checks.

    All I have to do is write the Overview, Defensive CM and OO.
  8. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    2,125
    Looks legit.

    QC APPROVED (1/3)
  9. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    4,297
    I'd give Surf a mention somewhere, especially on the defensive set. You get 8 extra PP at a very small cost in power (95 vs 100), which could potentially give you a bigger chance of scoring a crit in a Calm Mind war.

    Otherwise,

    QC APPROVED 2/3
  10. Furai

    Furai wellfare
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,844
    Alright, I'll mention Surf in OO and Defensive CM. Thanks guys!
  11. barry4ever

    barry4ever
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2009
    Messages:
    877
    QC APPROVED 3/3

    Awesome job.
  12. Furai

    Furai wellfare
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,844
    Thanks barry!


    I will wait for trickroom's saying about the Defensive Calm Mind, because he thinks that there should be only 1 CM set. I think ibo will approve this though. Until then I'll get the Overview and OO done.


    EDIT: All written, waiting for trickroom's saying.
  13. trickroom

    trickroom
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2009
    Messages:
    999
    You already mentioned a more defensive spread in the Offensive Calm Mind set. I think you should drop that if you are posting another Calm Mind set.
  14. Furai

    Furai wellfare
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,844
    Ah, I see what you meant trickroom. Changes have been made, ready for GP checks!
  15. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    2,157
    Add
    Remove
    Comment
    Show Hide

    [Overview]

    <p>The Creator emerges for the depths of the ocean, by holding a Splash Plate, utilizing it uses the essential liquid of life to unleash a devastating wave of destruction to and end the life that it created eons ago. While He created Kyogre to rule the seas, and Manaphy to keep fear on the oceans, and Manaphy to strike fear into those who cross the ocean(comma) I think this is what you meant to say, not sure neither of those cannot can function without rain support, unlike the oldest Pokemon. Although, However(comma) Water Arceus does have His downfalls. Water-type is a poor defensive type typing in the Ubers metagame, being weak to common Electric- and Grass-type moves. Water Arceus also receives a lot competition from Kyogre, Manaphy, and Palkia - em dash, not hyphen but don't let these drawbacks fool you(comma)(remove period) Water Arceus gets access to two forms of set-up; Swords Dance and Calm Mind, making Him very difficult to counter. Water Arceus's wide coverage and godly stat distribution make makes Him a true monster(period)(remove comma) and not to mention His godly stats distribution. Be sure Let it be known that Water Arceus is ready to show the nonbelievers that He is the true ruler of the oceans and seas.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Swords Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Waterfall
    move 3: Dragon Claw / Brick Break
    move 4: Recover / ExtremeSpeed
    item: Splash Plate
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    nature: Jolly / Adamant

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Water Arceus has an excellent niche in Ubers as a physical attacker, where it only faces true competition from the uncommon Kabutops. The EV spread for this set simply maximizes Speed and Attacking power, eschewing bulk for raw muscle. Just set up a Swords Dance or two and attempt a quick sweep, preferrably aided by rain support to further power up its STAB Waterfalls. Although this Arceus set does not fall directly under the shadow of directly outclassed by the other powerful Water-types in the tier, the abundance and diversity of Water- resistances in Ubers caused by these special-attacking powerhouses does pose some problems for Splash Plate Arceus. However, the combination of Waterfall and Dragon Claw hits the vast majority of pokemon for at least neutral damage(comma) at least neutrally, and even a resisted Waterfall in rain is monstrous. After a Swords Dance, rain-boosted Waterfall will even 2HKO minimum HP Giratina-O, OHKO max HP Arceus, and OHKO Standard Lugia after Stealth Rock. Waterfall also deals 47% - 55.4% to max HP Dialga, and does 49.7% - 58.8% to specially defensive Ferrothorn. Brick Break will allow Water Arceus to eliminate Ferrothorn and Dialga even more easily if you don't want to risk such a narrow 2HKO. Dragon Claw gets the nod(comma) as it is the only way that this Arceus can deal appreciable damage to Giratina, which is still never 2HKOed by the attack. It also has the added advantage of killing KOing Palkia after a Swords Dance. Recover provides Arceus greater surviveability and therefore a longer lifespan on the battlefield, while whereas ExtremeSpeed synergizes well with Dragon Claw, allowing Water Arceus to pick off Palkia and Rayquaza switch-ins.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Kyogre is a must for this set, as permanent rain ensures that Waterfall will deal as much damage as possible while also ensuring that sun is kept out of play. As evidenced above, rain is necessary for gaining quite a few relevant OHKOs and 2HKOs. Kyogre also makes a solid answer to Groudon, Skarmory(comma) and Lugia(comma) all whom pose tremendous threats to this set(period) who is a tremendous threat to this set, and so are Gliscor, Skarmory, and Lugia. Spikes support is very useful for this set, wearing as it wears down opposing grounded counters Pokemon(comma) such as Giratina and Ferrothorn(comma) and further weaken Groudon and opposing Scarfers(period) and keeping Scarfers and Groudon further in check. Forretress and Skarmory are competent Spikers, and can use Giratina and Ferrothorn as an opportunity to lay down multiple layers of Spikes, especially if getting burned isn't too concerning. Skarmory can follow up with Whirlwind phazing, while Forretress can Rapid Spin away opposing Spikes and Toxic Spikes against Ferrothorn. A Ferrothorn of your own is a good teammate, as it can set up Spikes too. It might not be able to beat opposing Ferrothorn, but it is an excellent answer switch-in to Electric- and Grass- attacks, as well as Kyogre and Zekrom, two potentially serious threats to this set. Excadrill, Garchomp, Dialga, and Wobbuffet are good checks for Zekrom, who outspeeds Water Arceus with an when equipped with a Choice Scarf and OHKOs it with Bolt Strike. Wobbuffet also gives Water Arceus another chance to set up Swords Dance by using Encore.</p>

    <p>While Arceus can 2HKO any Kyogre with boosted Waterfall, but Specs Kyogre can OHKO back in return with Thunder, so having something such as Ferrothorn or Dialga that can to absorb Thunders would be very useful. Dialga sets up Stealth Rock and takes Grass-, Water-, and Electric- moves with an ease, and as mentioned before, Dialga is capable of taking a Bolt Strike from Zekrom. Chansey is also a great partner for Water Arceus, as she is more than capable of taking Thunders and any other special attack aimed at Arceus, subduing everything threatening other than Ferrothorn, Zekrom, and some Shaymin-S variants. All of these Pokemon are capable of coming in on Giratina to absorb pesky Will-O-Wisps as well, although only Dialga is truly threatening it. Shaymin-S is especially threatening, as it is faster than Water Arceus and carries a super effective Seed Flare(period) that also hits Kyogre. Dialga is a good answer to Shaymin-S, being able to tank all of Shaymin-S's moves bar Earth Power, and strike back with a STAB-boosted Draco Meteor or phaze Shaymin-S with Roar or Dragon Tail. Ferrothorn is another good check to Shaymin-S, however it will lose to the SubSeed set. If taking an offensive route, your main goal is to lure in and kill take out Groudon. Mixed Bulk Up Dialga, Mixed Rayquaza, and Mixed Zekrom are all capable of doing in Groudon by pretending to be physical and then laying down the hurt with a Draco Meteor on Groudon's weak side if it unfortunate enough to be fooled by this ruse.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Calm Mind
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Judgment
    move 3: Spacial Rend / Ice Beam
    move 4: Fire Blast / Thunder
    item: Splash Plate
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Timid

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Calm Mind is typically an excellent option for Arceus formes, and Water Arceus is no exception(period)(remove exclamation mark) It is important to recognize, however(comma) that this set competes directly with Calm Mind Kyogre and Manaphy. Higher HP, Defense, and Speed are all important distinguishing factors here, but Water Arceus gets the bonus of a having much wider coverage. Judgment serves as a dependable STAB attack(comma) and in conjuction with Spacial Rend(comma) Water Arceus can hit nearly the entire metagame for at least neutral damage, only missing out on Ferrothorn and the unpopular Shedinja and Empoleon. A +1 Spacial Rend can 2HKO Giratina-O, OHKO Rayquaza after it has taken Stealth Rock damage, and can OHKO Palkia after 2 switch-ins into Stealth Rock. It should be noted that you should use Judgment on Pokemon that x2 resist it, as in rain it will still do more than Spacial Rend. Fire Blast is an extremely solid option for denting the problematic Ferrothorn, 2HKOing it after a Calm Mind even in rain. It can also 2HKO Dialga, max HP Arceus, Mewtwo - even after a Calm Mind boost, and Wobbuffet. Thunder is also a good option to hit opposing Kyogre that may otherwise attempt to race you to 6 Calm Minds, although this is typically of secondary concern when compaired compared to killing KOing Ferrothorn dependably. Ice Beam is a decent option for hitting opposing Dragon- and Grass-type Pokemon if you do not like Spacial Rend or are using Thunder.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>If a healing move is more important than a coverage move, one can be replaced with Recover. In case Water Arceus switched into a single layer of Toxic Spikes or got burned, it can beat Chansey or Blissey under rain by setting up Calm Minds and using Recover when needed. Once again, Kyogre support is very much appreciated, although this set can function perfectly fine without it; it is preferred that a team with Water Arceus has a way to remove the sun's harmful rays. A choiced set is best(comma) since you don't want your Kyogre to take Arceus' job on the team by using Calm Mind.</p>

    <p>Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Forretress are excellent partners with Water Arceus, as all of them can provide Spikes support. Skarmory and Forretress are excellent answers to opposing Ferrothorn, Whirlwinding the former can Whirlwind it out to rack up damage or simply nullifying any attempts to Spike with Taunt or in the case of Forretress(comma) Rapid Spin, respectively. While Ferrothorn doesn't answer opposing Ferrothorn all that well, it is the premier Zekrom counter and it checks opposing Calm Mind Kyogre admirably. All three aforementioned teammates can also set up on the problematic Blissey and Chansey. Mixed Dialga and physically based Mixed Palkia can lure in both with an ease and OHKO with their powerful STAB moves. However, the blobs are ironically good partners, as they can soak up status and powerful special attacks(comma) such as like Thunder or Grass Knot(comma) that have the potential to break through your Water Arceus's boosts. Specially defensive Dialga is a great teammate as well, as it can come in on Electric- and Grass- attacks, Blissey, Chansey, Ferrothorn, or Grass Arceus and set up Stealth Rock or accumulate Bulk Up boosts. Heatran, while not synergistic with rain, can do essentially the same thing as Dialga bar stacking Bulk Up boosts, but can also switch into Giratina without getting burned and force out opposing Bulk Up Dialga.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Defensive Calm Mind
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Surf / Judgment
    move 4: Will-O-Wisp / Refresh
    item: Splash Plate
    evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Timid

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>At a first glance, this set may seem outclassed by Kyogre and Manaphy. However, neither Kyogre or Manaphy can function without rain support, while Water Arceus can. This set differs from the Offensive Calm Mind set because in the Offensive set, in order to use Recover, you have to give up on a coverage move. Doing so will cause Water Arceus to fall against one of its counters, depending on which move was given up. In this set, Water Arceus can burn the things Pokemon that bother him(comma) such as Zekrom(comma) Groudon(comma) Bulk Up Dialga(comma) and Rayquaza(comma) with Will-O-Wisp(period)(remove comma) such as Zekrom, Groudon, Bulk Up Dialga, and Rayquaza. Refresh, however, is a solid option over Will-O-Wisp if you wish Water Arceus to be a phenomenal stallbreaker. Calm Mind is this set's boosting move, and when used with Will-O-Wisp, Water Arceus becomes extremely bulky. The choice between Surf and Judgment as Water Arceus's only attacking move is up to the user; Judgment has an extra 5 Base Power over Surf, but Surf has 8 more PP.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread is straightforward; 252 HP gives Water Arceus optimal bulk, while 252 Speed with Timid Nature lets it speed(space)tie with other Calm Mind Arceus forms. An alternate EV spread of 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe can be used if looking for a more defensive set.</p>

    <p>While this set may work outside of rain, it does not mean it will not enjoy it. Rain boosts up Water Arceus's sole STAB move and makes it by far much stronger, so Kyogre makes an ideal partner. Ferrothorn counters both Kyogre and Water Arceus(semicolon)(remove comma) however(comma) it will not enjoy the burn at all. Lustrous Orb Palkia is an amazing Ferrothorn lure, being able to bluff a Choice item, so Ferrothorn will stay in the so-called locked move, and then get striked struck down by a super effective Fire Blast. Something to note, does Fire Blast still OHKO in the Rain? I'm too lazy to do the calcs, so I shall leave this up to you. This set really appreciates entry hazards, especially Toxic Spikes, as they weaken Water Arceus's counters and allow it to sweep much more easily. Ferrothorn is a good Spikes user as a partner, as it resists Electric- and Grass-type attacks aimed at Water Arceus. Water Arceus does not appreciate opposing entry hazards though, so a spinner is recommended. Forretress and Excadrill are good partners, while the former deserves a special mention for setting up entry hazards as well. If not running Refresh, Water Arceus will not enjoy being poisoned, so a Cleric is adviced. Chansey or Blissey are the only true Clerics in Ubers, being able to heal your team from status by using Heal Bell or Aromatherapy.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Water Arceus does not have many other options. Surf is a very viable option over Judgment, exchanging 5 Base Power for another 8 PP. Flamethrower can be used over Fire Blast on the Offensive Calm Mind set if you don't want to risk a miss, but the loss in power is very significant. Earth Power can be used on the same set as well, but that's very situational and only used for opposing Dialga. Focus Blast is another option, but Judgment in the rain or Fire Blast probably hits harder.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>The first step in countering Water Arceus is to bring out the sun. Not only does defensive Groudon make a decent check to physical Water Arceus variants with Dragon Tail, but the sun it summons is absolutely devastating to Arceus's STAB attack, removing the rain boost and replacing it with a global Water- resistance. Recognize, however, Be aware that this will empower Fire Blast sets. Toxic Spikes can be useful for combating Water Arceus, but make sure that it is not a Calm Mind variant, as they can utilize your layer of Toxic Spikes to ensure avoiding from a badly poisoned status.</p>

    <p>Ferrothorn, Dialga, and the Giratina formes are your best bet against the Swords Dance set, just watch out for Brick Break or Dragon Claw. Even with these two coverage moves, Ferrothorn and Giratina will be able to survive easily and fire back a Power Whip, Dragon Tail, or Will-O-Wisp respectively. Defensive Grass Arceus also counters this set soundly, as it resists Waterfall and is bulky enough to take anything else. In return, it can cripple Water Arceus with status moves, such as Will-O-Wisp and Thudner Thunder Wave, or just smack it with a Judgment or Grass Knot for a near-OHKO. Shaymin-S outspeeds Arceus and can demolish/ whatever word you want to use it it with a brutal Seed Flare or Air Slash barrage. In the way of checks, Choice Scarf Zekrom, Dialga, Palkia, or Kyogre resist Waterfall and possess solid enough defensive stats to weather any unboosted attack, firing back with a powerful super-effective Bolt Strike or Thunder. If you have already gotten sun up, then any opposing Arceus set with Will-O-Wisp can render this set useless as well. If Stealth Rock and Spikes can be managed, the rare Shedinja makes a fine check to any Arceus lacking a status move or Fire Blast.</p>

    <p>Calm Mind variants of Arceus are another animal, as the coverage and support moves available to it can make countering it tricky. Sets without Will-O-Wisp or Fire Blast are easy targets for Ferrothorn, as it resists anything else that can be thrown at it and 2HKOs with Power Whip after Leech Seed. I think Stealth Rock+1 layer of Spikes would be a better example than Leech Seed, but your choice. Water Arceus lacking Refresh or Recover is easily picked off by the combination of Seismic Toss and Toxic from Blissey or Chansey. Giratina formes, Dialga, and Grass Arceus can keep this set from accumulating boosts by phazing it with Dragon Tail and or Roar respectively while shrugging off anything except for a boosted Ice Beam, which still doesn't hit all that hard. However, the Giratina formes and Dialga cannot win one-on-one.</p>

    GP Approved (1/2)
    [​IMG]
  16. Furai

    Furai wellfare
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,844
    Implemented NWO's check, good for check #2.
  17. NatGeo

    NatGeo sun's coming up
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,428
    remove
    add

    spelling changes / (comments)


    not done
    Show Hide

    [Overview]

    <p>The Creator emerges from the depths of the ocean, by holding a Splash Plate, He uses using the essential liquid of life to unleash a devastating wave of destruction and end the life that it He created eons ago. While He created Kyogre to rule the seas, and Manaphy to strike fear into those who cross the ocean, both cannot function without rain support, unlike the oldest Pokemon. However, Water Arceus does have His downfalls. Water is a poor defensive typing in the Ubers metagame, being weak to common Electric- and Grass-type moves. Water Arceus also receives a lot competition from Kyogre, Manaphy, and Palkia—but don't let these drawbacks fool you, as Water Arceus gets access to two forms of set-(delete)up: Swords Dance and Calm Mind, making Him very difficult to counter. Water Arceus's wide coverage and godly stat distribution make Him a true monster. Let it be known that Water Arceus is ready to show the nonbelievers that He is the true ruler of the oceans and seas.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Swords Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Waterfall
    move 3: Dragon Claw / Brick Break
    move 4: Recover / ExtremeSpeed
    item: Splash Plate
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    nature: Jolly / Adamant

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Water Arceus has an excellent niche in Ubers as a physical attacker, where it only faces true competition from the uncommon Kabutops. The EV spread for this set simply maximizes Speed and Attacking power, eschewing bulk for raw muscle. Just set up a Swords Dance or two and attempt a quick sweep, preferably aided by rain support to further power up its STAB Waterfalls. Although this Arceus set is directly outclassed by the other powerful Water-types in the tier, the abundance of Water-type resistances in Ubers caused by these special-attacking powerhouses does pose some problems for Splash Plate Arceus.(Probably one of the most awkward sentences I've had the courtesy of reading -.- Please majorly reword this or take it out!) However, The (those changes only if the that weird sentence is taken out n_n) combination of Waterfall and Dragon Claw hits the vast majority of Pokemon for at least neutral damage, and even a resisted Waterfall in rain is monstrous. After a Swords Dance, rain-boosted Waterfall will even 2HKO minimum HP Giratina-O, OHKO max HP Arceus (which variant? j/w), and OHKO Standard Lugia after Stealth Rock damage. Waterfall also deals 47% - 55.4% to max HP Dialga, and does 49.7% - 58.8% to specially defensive Ferrothorn. Brick Break will allow Water Arceus to eliminate Ferrothorn and Dialga even more easily if you don't want to risk such a narrow 2HKO. Dragon Claw gets the nod, however, as it is the only way that this Arceus can deal appreciable damage to Giratina, which is still never 2HKOed by the attack. (maybe switch these last sentences? Makes more sense to write the primary option first) It also has the added advantage of KOing Palkia after a Swords Dance. Recover provides Arceus greater survivability and therefore a longer lifespan on the battlefield, whereas ExtremeSpeed synergizes well with Dragon Claw, allowing Water Arceus to pick off Palkia and Rayquaza switch-ins.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Kyogre is a must for this set, as permanent rain ensures that Waterfall will deal as much damage as possible while also ensuring that sun is kept out of play. As evidenced above, rain is necessary for gaining quite a few relevant OHKOs and 2HKOs. Kyogre also makes a solid answer to Groudon, as do Gliscor, Skarmory, and Lugia. Spikes support is very useful for this set, as it wears down opposing grounded Pokemon, such as Giratina and Ferrothorn, and further weaken Groudon and opposing Choice Scarf users. Forretress and Skarmory are competent Spikers, and can use Giratina and Ferrothorn to lay down multiple layers of Spikes, especially if getting burned isn't too concerning. Skarmory can follow up with Whirlwind phazing, while Forretress can Rapid Spin away opposing Spikes and Toxic Spikes against Ferrothorn. A Ferrothorn of your own is a good teammate, as it can set up Spikes too. It might not be able to beat opposing Ferrothorn, but it is an excellent switch-(remove)in to Electric- and Grass-type attacks, as well as Kyogre and Zekrom, two potentially serious threats to this set. Excadrill, Garchomp, Dialga, and Wobbuffet are good checks for Zekrom, who outspeeds Water Arceus when equipped with a Choice Scarf and OHKOes it with Bolt Strike. Wobbuffet also gives Water Arceus another chance to set up Swords Dance by using Encore.</p>

    <p>While Arceus can 2HKO any Kyogre with boosted Waterfall, but Specs Kyogre can OHKO in return with Thunder, so having something such as Ferrothorn or Dialga to absorb Thunder and other Electric-type attacks would be very useful. Dialga sets up Stealth Rock and takes Grass-, Water-, and Electric-type moves with an ease, and as mentioned before, Dialga is capable of taking a Bolt Strike from Zekrom. Chansey is also a great partner for Water Arceus, as she is more than capable of taking Thunders and any other special attack aimed at Arceus, subduing everything threatening other than Ferrothorn, Zekrom, and some Shaymin-S variants. All of these Pokemon are capable of coming in on Giratina to absorb pesky Will-O-Wisps as well, although only Dialga is truly threatening it. Shaymin-S is especially threatening, as it is faster than Water Arceus and carries a super effective Seed Flare. Dialga is a good answer to Shaymin-S, being able to tank all of Shaymin-S's moves bar Earth Power, and strike back with a STAB-boosted Draco Meteor or phaze Shaymin-S with Roar or Dragon Tail. Ferrothorn is another good check to Shaymin-S, however though it will lose to the SubSeed set. If taking an offensive route, your main goal is to lure in and take out Groudon. Mixed Bulk Up Dialga, Mixed Rayquaza, and Mixed Zekrom are all capable of doing in Groudon by pretending to be physical and then laying down the hurt with a Draco Meteor on Groudon's weak side if it unfortunate enough to be fooled by this ruse.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Calm Mind
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Judgment
    move 3: Spacial Rend / Ice Beam
    move 4: Fire Blast / Thunder
    item: Splash Plate
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Timid

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Calm Mind is typically an excellent option for Arceus formes, and Water Arceus is no exception. It is important to recognize, however, that this set competes directly with Calm Mind Kyogre and Manaphy. Higher HP, Defense, and Speed are all important distinguishing factors here, and but Water Arceus gets the bonus of having much wider coverage. Judgment serves as a dependable STAB attack, and in conjunction with Spacial Rend, Water Arceus can hit nearly the entire metagame for at least neutral damage, only missing out on Ferrothorn and the unpopular almost nonexistent Shedinja and Empoleon. A +1 Spacial Rend can 2HKO Giratina-O, OHKO Rayquaza after it has taken Stealth Rock damage, and can OHKO Palkia after 2 switch-ins into Stealth Rock. It should be noted that you should use Judgment on Pokemon that x2 (x2 resist is inherently a regular resist, and if by x2 resist you mean both of a mon's types resist it then its a quadruple resist)resist it, as in rain it will still do more than Spacial Rend. Fire Blast is an extremely solid option for denting the problematic Ferrothorn, 2HKOing it after a Calm Mind even in rain. It can also 2HKO Dialga, max HP Arceus, Mewtwo -(remove) (even after a Calm Mind boost), and Wobbuffet. Thunder is also a good option to hit opposing Kyogre that may otherwise attempt to race you to 6 Calm Minds, although this is typically of secondary concern compared to KOing Ferrothorn dependably. Ice Beam is a decent option for hitting opposing Dragon- and Grass-type Pokemon if you do not like Spacial Rend or are using Thunder.(This sentence should be moved to after the sentence regarding Spacial Rend)</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>If a healing move is more important than a coverage move, one move can be replaced with Recover. In case Water Arceus switched into a single layer of Toxic Spikes or got burned, it can beat Chansey or Blissey under rain by setting up Calm Minds and using Recover when needed. Once again, Kyogre support is very much appreciated, although this set can function perfectly fine without it; it is preferred that a team with Water Arceus has a way to remove the sun's harmful rays. A Choiced set is best, since you don't want your Kyogre to take Arceus's job on the team by using Calm Mind.</p>

    <p>Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Forretress are excellent partners with Water Arceus, as all of them can provide Spikes support. Skarmory and Forretress are excellent answers to opposing Ferrothorn, as the former can Whirlwind it out to rack up damage or simply nullifying any attempts to Spike with Taunt, (add) or in the case of Forretress, Rapid Spin, respectively. While Ferrothorn doesn't answer opposing Ferrothorn all that well, it is the premier Zekrom counter and it checks opposing Calm Mind Kyogre admirably. All three aforementioned teammates can also set up on the problematic Blissey and Chansey. Mixed Dialga and physically based Mixed Palkia can lure in both with ease and OHKO with their powerful STAB moves. However, the blobs are ironically good partners, as they can soak up status and powerful special attacks, such as Thunder or Grass Knot, that have the potential to break through your Water Arceus's boosts. Specially defensive Dialga is a great teammate as well, as it can come in on Electric- and Grass- attacks, Blissey, Chansey, Ferrothorn, or Grass Arceus and set up Stealth Rock or accumulate Bulk Up boosts. Heatran, while not synergistic with rain, can do essentially the same thing as Dialga bar stacking Bulk Up boosts, but can also switch into Giratina without getting burned and force out opposing Bulk Up Dialga.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Defensive Calm Mind
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Surf / Judgment
    move 4: Will-O-Wisp / Refresh
    item: Splash Plate
    evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Timid

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>At a first glance, this set may seem outclassed by Kyogre and Manaphy. However, neither Kyogre or Manaphy can function without the presence of rain support(Kyogre brings rain with it, so it can't support itself), while Water Arceus can. This set differs from the Offensive Calm Mind set because in the Offensive set, in order to use Recover, you have to give up on a coverage move. Doing so will cause Water Arceus to fall against one of its counters, depending on which move was given up. In this set, Water Arceus can burn Pokemon that bother him, such as Zekrom, Groudon, Bulk Up Dialga, and Rayquaza, with Will-O-Wisp. Refresh, however, is a solid option over Will-O-Wisp if you wish Water Arceus to be a phenomenal stallbreaker. Calm Mind is this set's boosting move, and when used with Will-O-Wisp, Water Arceus becomes extremely bulky. The choice between Surf and Judgment as Water Arceus's only attacking move is up to the user; Judgment has an extra 5 Base Power over Surf, but Surf has 8 more PP.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread is straightforward; 252 HP EVs gives Water Arceus optimal bulk, while 252 Speed EVs with Timid Nature lets it speed tie with other Calm Mind Arceus forms. An alternate EV spread of 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe can be used if looking for a more defensive set.</p>

    <p>While this set may work outside of rain, it does not mean it will not enjoy it. Rain boosts up Water Arceus's sole STAB move and makes it much stronger, so Kyogre makes an ideal partner. Ferrothorn counters both Kyogre and Water Arceus; however, it will not enjoy the burn at all. Lustrous Orb Palkia is an amazing Ferrothorn lure, being able to bluff a Choice item, so Ferrothorn will stay in the so-called locked move, and then get struck by a super effective Fire Blast. This set really appreciates entry hazards, especially Toxic Spikes, as they weaken Water Arceus's counters and allow it to sweep much more easily. Ferrothorn is a good partner, as it resists Electric- and Grass-type attacks aimed at Water Arceus. Water Arceus does not appreciate opposing entry hazards though, so a spinner is recommended. Forretress and Excadrill are good partners, while the former deserves a special mention for setting up entry hazards as well (mention something here about how exca works best with sand). If not running Refresh, Water Arceus will not enjoy being poisoned, so a Cleric is advised. Chansey or Blissey are the only true clerics in Ubers, being able to heal your team from status by using Heal Bell or Aromatherapy.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Water Arceus does not have many other options. Surf is a very viable option over Judgment, exchanging 5 Base Power for another 8 PP. Flamethrower can be used over Fire Blast on the Offensive Calm Mind set if you don't want to risk a miss, but the loss in power is very significant. Earth Power can be used on the same set as well, but that's very situational and only used for opposing Dialga. Focus Blast is another option, but Judgment in the rain or Fire Blast probably usually hits harder.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>The first step in countering Water Arceus is to bring out the sun. Not only does defensive Groudon make a decent check to physical Water Arceus variants with Dragon Tail, but the sun it summons is absolutely devastating to Arceus's STAB attack, removing the rain boost and replacing it with a global Water-type resistance. Be aware that this will empower Fire Blast sets with Fire Blast. Toxic Spikes can be useful for combating Water Arceus, but make sure that it is not a Calm Mind variant, as they can utilize your coming in on a single layer of Toxic Spikes to ensure avoiding from a badly poisoned status.</p>

    <p>Ferrothorn, Dialga, and the Giratina formes are your best bet against the Swords Dance set, just watch out for Brick Break or Dragon Claw. Even with these two coverage moves, Ferrothorn and Giratina will be able to survive easily and fire back a Power Whip, Dragon Tail, or Will-O-Wisp respectively. Defensive Grass Arceus also counters this set soundly, as it resists Waterfall and is bulky enough to take anything else. In return, it can cripple Water Arceus with status moves, such as Will-O-Wisp and Thunder Wave, or just smack it with a Judgment or Grass Knot for almost an near-OHKO. Shaymin-S outspeeds Arceus and can demolish/ whatever word you want to use it with a brutal Seed Flare or Air Slash barrage. In the way of checks, Choice Scarf Zekrom, Dialga, Palkia, or and Kyogre resist Waterfall and possess solid enough defensive stats to weather any unboosted attack, firing back with a powerful super-(remove)effective Bolt Strike or Thunder. If you have already gotten sun up, then any opposing Arceus set with Will-O-Wisp can render this set useless as well. If Stealth Rock and Spikes can be managed, the rare Shedinja makes a fine check to any Arceus lacking a status move or Fire Blast.</p>

    <p>Calm Mind variants of Water Arceus are another animal, as the coverage and support moves available to it them can make countering it tricky. Sets without Will-O-Wisp or Fire Blast are easy targets for Ferrothorn, as it resists anything else that can be thrown at it and 2HKOs with Power Whip after Leech Seed or a switch into Stealth Rock and a single layer of Spikes. I think Stealth Rock+1 layer of Spikes would be a better example than Leech Seed, but your choice. Water Arceus lacking Refresh or Recover is easily picked off by the combination of Seismic Toss and Toxic from Blissey or Chansey. Giratina formes, Dialga, and Grass Arceus can keep this set from accumulating boosts by phazing it with Dragon Tail or Roar while shrugging off anything except for a boosted Ice Beam, which still doesn't hit all that hard. However, the Giratina formes and Dialga cannot win one-on-one.</p>


    Take a crack at the grammar standards page for some tips that could prove really helpful in the future!

    GP 2/2
  18. Furai

    Furai wellfare
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,844
    Implemented, this is done.
  19. Bossness

    Bossness

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2011
    Messages:
    440
    In the overview it says:"Water Arceus also receives a lot competition from Kyogre, Manaphy,".I think it should read"Water Arceus also receives a lot of competition from Kyogre, Manaphy"
  20. Furai

    Furai wellfare
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,844
    Oh wow, I can't believe I forgot that. Thanks Anikrahman!
  21. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    2,125
    AF APPROVED (1/3)
  22. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    4,297
    You need AF approving for this? I thought they were only for earlier analyses. Whatever.

    AF 2/3
  23. barry4ever

    barry4ever
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2009
    Messages:
    877
    AF 3/3

    (really this is dumb)
  24. Furai

    Furai wellfare
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,844
    Well I assumed AFs were for all Arceus Forms so I just put it there.


    Thanks guys, officially done!
  25. trickroom

    trickroom
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2009
    Messages:
    999
    Uploaded. Changed a little stuff.

    Lugia now uses Impish as the main spread, not Jolly so the OHKO isn't guaranteed even with SR.

    +2 Waterfall can fail to 2HKO Bold Kyogre.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)