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Water Monotype

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by Red~Rum, Apr 23, 2010.

  1. Red~Rum

    Red~Rum

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    Messages:
    53
    Ok so I have a monotype tournament coming up soon and my usual type, rock was taken. So, I decided water. After all it's a pretty easy type to use. Also I wanted to make a Leftovers abuse team.

    Swampert@Leftovers
    Relaxed Nature
    HP 252/Attack 4/Defense 252
    Stealth Rock
    Earthquake
    Ice Beam
    Roar

    This is probably the best water type lead for my team. His main job is to get the rocks down that will help damage the opposing team and null Focus Sash's the other team may have. Swampert will also act as a phaser for my team by roaring out potential threats or anything that started to set up. Earthquake is a powerful stab and Ice Beam is for grass pokemon. Swampert can come in on opposing walls as well and attack based on what type of wall they're using.

    Lanturn@Leftovers
    Calm Nature
    Volt Absorb
    HP 40/Defense 216/Special Defense 252
    Thunder Wave/Toxic
    Confuse Ray
    Thunderbolt
    Surf

    Parafusion <3. What else would you like me to say? This is probably the most annoying set I could run for any of the pokemon on my team. He can take both physical and special attack thanks to the high HP stat. Confusion and parahax definitely helps him get his job done. (Yes being a water monotype, I know I will be facing electric pokemon so Thunder Wave isn't always the best option.)

    Suicune@Leftovers
    Bold Nature
    HP 252/Defense 252/Speed 4
    Rest
    Sleep Talk
    Calm Mind
    Surf

    The standard set. I like to run bulky teams so this guy is perfect for me. Leftovers Rest and Sleep Talk all allows him to stall and get Calm Minds in until he's ready to just surf through a team. He's capable of taking both physical and special hits after he sets up. If I could add in a Celebi as my filler Suicune would become a lot more effective for my team.

    Gyarados@Leftovers
    Adamant Nature
    HP 156/Attack 72/Defense 96/Speed 184
    Dragon Dance
    Taunt
    Waterfall
    Stone Edge

    Gyarados' typing and Dragon Dance works wonders together. His ability gives him physical bulk and Dragon Dance gives him even more of a sweeping ability. Gyarados takes grass hits for neutral which might come in handy as well. He also provides ground immunity to my team. This is probably my favorite set Gyarados can run.

    Sharpedo@Choice Scarf
    Adamant Nature
    HP 4/Attack 252/Speed 252
    Waterfall
    Earthquake
    Crunch
    Ice Fang

    Ok time to stray from the apples. Sharpedo with the scarf is really nice. The biggest difficulty of using this guy is getting him in. But as soon as he's in the scarf allows him to take out some pokemon with a problem. Waterfall is for flinch and stab. Crunch is a nice stab to have as well. Earthquake and Ice Fang are for ice and electric pokemon. (questioning him)

    Infernape@Life Orb
    Naive Nature
    Attack 64/Special Attack 252/Speed 192
    Flamethrower
    Earthquake
    Close Combat
    Vacuum Wave

    He has the ability to take out many walls and he comes with some priority. He is specially made to help out against common grass and electrics I mighty come across. I will admit I'm a little weary as to this guy as a filler along with the EV spread please help. The priority move is another thing that he brings to my team that my team lacks.



    Thanks in an advance for all rates!
  2. Red~Rum

    Red~Rum

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    Reserve for threat list. Also descriptions are being edited to have more details. (just in a rush at the moment)
  3. Quaily

    Quaily

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2009
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    489
    First of all thunder wave works on electric types, unless they have volt absorb or motor drive.

    Secondly it sounds like you are trying to use sharpedo offensively, which sounds like a pretty bad idea. It's so frail that it would only work as a revenge killer, but chances are if you just lost a poke it was to something that can ko sharpedo. If you want a sweeper I recommend this:

    Kingdra @ life orb/lum berry
    adamant 252 attack 252 spe
    dragon dance
    dragon claw/outrage
    waterfall
    substitute

    This works much better as a sweeper, kingdra is neutral to grass and electric, and can absorb status with substitute since water/dragon gives almost perfect coverage.

    I use return on gyarados instead of stone edge but that's preference really.
  4. Banryu

    Banryu

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    Feb 26, 2009
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    1,742
    Uhh, first of all, Kingdra doesn't get Dragon Claw, Qualiy. :0 No claws, you see.

    I somewhat disagree; I think you want to keep Sharpedo, but just make sure you're just utilizing him as a revenge-killer, since that's what Scarfpedo does best, being fragile as it is. The Kingdra set might be good in place of Infernape, and I think it's kind of a cop-out that you're running Infernape over another Water-type. :\ If it's a mono-type team, then stick with that.

    Also, I'd recommend finding somewhere to fit Empoleon in there, since he brings a ton of useful resistances to the plate. Kingdra is also good, defensively-speaking, since he's not weak to anything that other Water-types are. Rain Dance in hte last slot of quaily's set over Substitute might also be good, since your team will benefit from Rain.
  5. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    Though rain dance is certainly a good idea, I will try to work with the team as it is. If you were to make it into a rain team, I would suggest a complete rebuild - with at least 3 swift swim sweepers and a rain dance lead.

    I can see some issues here with salamence and Gyarados. In the case of Salamence, Scarf Sharpedo is not fast enough to outrun a +1 max speed Salamence, meaning that you are relying entirely on Swampert, who will often be damaged in the lead position and is without recovery, to deal with him. Gyarados is less of a problem, since taunt + EQ is very rare, but an offensive variation could easily sweep your team bar Swampert, who can only phaze. A bulky version could be quite well dealt with by Lanturn, but will otherwise have little problem sweeping.

    I see two methods to deal with this. One is to change your Suicune to a calm mind + 3 attacks set, with Surf/Ice beam/HP Electric, but still with a largely physically defensive spread and leftovers, to help take a +1 Outrage from Salamence. The second way of dealing with this problem is to replace your Sharpedo with a faster scarfer that can deal with Salamence and Gyarados, such as a Scarf Starmie.

    If you opt for the suicune option, I would still advocate the removal of Sharpedo, as he is too defensively frail, nor that powerful. Kingdra or Empoleon as suggested above would do fine instead.

    Earthquake is an awful move on Infernape. It has totally redundant coverage with Close Combat. Infernape has a large and wide-ranging movepool to choose from, with options including Nasty plot, Grass Knot, Hidden power ice, Stone Edge and U-turn.

    I'm not really sure that the Lantrun parahax tactic is going to work without full entry hazard support, which would be hard to come by given the mono-type limitation(Cloyster, Qwilfish or Omastar would be needed.) Therefore I would suggested removing Confuse ray for either Ice Beam or heal bell.

    Good luck.

    Edit: sorry - I didn't think much about your opponents being monotype too. What is the format of the tournament - is every type represented, and is it each type only once etc.
  6. Plus

    Plus bus
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    Hello, got your message.

    Though Rain Dance is probably my favorite and probably the easiest way to go about mono water, it seems that you're trying a new approach so I guess I'll help with that.

    Against Dragon, Grass, and Normal mono, you'll have a really tough time without any resist whatsoever in your pokemon, especially dragons which can score hard hitting neutrals towards your team for little cost. Because it is a mono team, and you don't exactly have the most room you would naturally want in a team, you probably will want some sort of backbone to your team. Steels in general are pretty good in mono teams for their numerous resistances, it should be even better considering you have decent synergy with a steel type. Should a steel encounter a problem with a fire type move , you have a multitude of Fire resists to work off of. I'd suggest support Jirachi to help give the team a backbone.

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Impish 252 HP / 176 Spe / 80 Def
    Iron Head / Body Slam / U-Turn / Wish

    If you know before hand what type team your opponent is using, run Thunder Wave over Body Slam.

    For Sharpedo, you should probably consider ditching it if it's hard to get in, especially since your team is going in a direction where you want it to be bulky, unlike something like Rain Dance where you can simply sacrifice a pokemon and bring in another one willy nilly. Additionally, it won't be hitting as hard as you wanted for something that really requires a sacrifice to get in 100% safely. 70/40/40 defenses are horrible, and is simply not worth it for an unboosted 120 base attack. For a replacement, consider running Kingdra, who nets you none of the weaknesses your current team has, is bulky, and gives you double dancers for extra power. You can try Quaily's set (without hacking and running Dragon Claw :D) with Leftovers over the two items which will give you a hard to break sweeper, especially with the restricting conditions of a mono team.

    Good luck in the tournament.
  7. Megan_Fox

    Megan_Fox

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    hey got your pm,

    as others have said, i would replace sharpedo for a dd kingdra.

    also in lanturns spot, you can try a sub agility petaya empoleon. it will make you more electric weak, but i feel empoleons ability to sweep it too good to pass
  8. Red~Rum

    Red~Rum

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    Thank you everyone I am testing these suggestions now!
  9. Aircraft Cemetery

    Aircraft Cemetery

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    Hi,

    Got your PM, so I'll try to help.
    First of all I think choosing Water for a monotype team is a good idea ;)
    However some things should definitely be improved. In a mono type team you will have to carefully choose the secondary types your pokemon should have in order to be able to switch into most attack types, especially those water is usually weak to. Also your wildcard (I guess that's what Infernape is) should definitely be able to take Grass and/or electric attacks for the rest of your team and I think infernape won't be the best option to do this due to it's frailness. Something you should also reconsider is Sharpedo as it is so incredibly frail. In the following I will try to find good solutions for those problems.

    Swampert: Perfect. You definitely need Stealth Rocks and a Water type immune to Electric attacks is highly appreciated.

    Gyarados: Also fine. For your defensively oriented team the Bulky spread is better than the offensive one. Also a very good secondary type, taking away the grass weakness and providing invaluable things like Ground immunity and Fighting resist. Intimidate also helps a lot. Nothing to change here.

    Lanturn: I agree with the posts above that Empoleon would fit that slot much better. Its steel typing provides your team with a Dragon, a Normal, a Dark, a Ghost, a Poison, a Bug resist. All those types would absolutely ruin you without Empoleon. The set I would suggest is Sub Agility Peteya with Ice Beam. The reason? Well, think about that Empoleon's counters. Blissey, Vaporeon, Suicune, Empoleon, Snorlax are the best ones. Some Latias and Celebi also give it trouble. If you now look at the former best counters you will notice that they are all Water or Normal types. This means that in a monotype tournament it will be nearly impossible to stop SubAgility Petaya Empoleon with a team other than Water or Normal. This should net you some fast and easy wins I think.
    Empoleon@Petaya Berry
    Modest-252Spe, 232spAtk, 24Def
    -Surf
    -Ice Beam
    -Agility
    -Substitute

    Suicune: I absolutely think that this Cune is a good choice for your team. Nevertheless I would replace it with Vaporeon for one single reason: Wish. Your team is perfectly bulky but each single member lacks a recovery move of its own. Also it will check Gyarados quite nicely.
    Vaporeon@Leftovers
    Bold-252Def, 188HP, 68SpDef
    -Surf
    -Toxic
    -Protect
    -Wish
    Toxic over HP and Roar as Swampert already has Roar and Gyarados should be handled by your team quite well.
    If you think Wish support is not that necessary, feel free to keep Suicune.

    Sharpedo seems a bit too frail to really revenge kill things efficiently. So as suggested above I would use Kingdra in that slot.

    Now to your wildcart. I would suggest something which is able to take Grass, Electric and opposing water attacks with ease. What comes to my mind is Celebi. Its weaknesses to Ice and Fire will only help your water types switch in safely and its Dark, Ghost weakness will give Empoleon a free set up. This set should work:
    Celebi@Leftovers
    Bold-252HP, 216Def, 40Spe
    -Grass Knot
    -HP Fire
    -Thunder Wave
    -Recover

    In fact these are a lot of changes but I think they should greatly help your team be successful at the mono type tournament.

    So hope this helped. Good Luck !

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