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We should probably make a barebones guide..

Discussion in 'Office of Strategic Influence' started by Outlaw, Nov 6, 2010.

  1. Outlaw

    Outlaw

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    of common roles and more importantly items, and their function. Just for an easy bank of reliable things that hosts can pluck from and mold how they see fit.
  2. Agape

    Agape

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    Mekkah's The Smog article has the basic roles summed up nicely. This article has nice guidelines for hosting a game. If info about items would be added to those it would make a nice guide.

    Having that guide stickied could improve game quality.
  3. polelover44

    polelover44

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    But that still gives us nothing about items. A good item guide would be really helpful for newer hosts (and for experienced hosts too).
  4. alkinesthetase

    alkinesthetase <@dtc> every day with alk is a bad day
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    I'm aware that i'm kinda new here and my actual play/host experience is rather lacking, but I have been lurking over mafia games for a while, and as a result I've compiled this list of roles that might come in handy for this topic. Since I couldn't figure out how to attach it, I'm just going to put it up on pastebin. I'm not sure if this is really the ideal means of presenting this document, since there are at least 40 or more roles in there, but I usually write things in plaintext anyway using headings to delineate sections, so it shouldn't be a hindrance to reading. I originally assembled the list to help myself in hosting mafia games on a private community; it's by no means authoritative but the sheer mass is probably useful to someone.
    http://pastebin.com/abSgWHag

    I don't really have much help for items though. I've been watching mafia on smogon for at least a year now, and I kinda get the feeling that users create items on a game by game basis. There aren't a lot of "common items", and as it stands a fair number of games choose to play without items in the first place. Some recurring concepts I've seen over the course of these games (I've aggregated 19 separate postgames for my personal interest and perused them) include priority-boosting items (unblockable kills for example), a y/n question asking item, bpv items, lpv items... etc, the list goes on.
  5. Staraptor Call

    Staraptor Call

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    List of Common Items

    Vote-influencing items
    +1 vote
    +2 votes
    0 vote
    negative vote
    holder can vote secretly
    holder cannot vote
    holder is silenced
    the holder's vote is changed to match the original holder's vote

    One-time use items
    single-use hook
    single-use redirect
    single-use martyr
    single-use kidnap
    single-use silence
    single-use persuade
    single-use steal
    single-use alliance/name/ability/full inspect

    Killing items
    gives power to kill on a set schedule, but can only be used by a certain role
    single-use kill
    single-use kill, but can only be used by a certain role
    single-use delayed kill
    single-use day kill
    single-use suicide kill
    kills the holder's killer

    Immunity items
    BPV
    single-use BPV
    LPV
    single-use LPV
    cannot be hooked
    cannot be redirected
    cannot be kidnapped
    cannot be silenced or persuaded
    cannot be stolen from
    cannot be inspected
    appears to have a different role when inspected
    immunity from a specific role's abilities

    Miscellaneous items
    does nothing but appears to do something
    has a function different from the one it appears to have
    lets the holder use a specific ability every night
    prevents the holder from using a specific ability
    changes the holder's alliance
    lets the holder know who targeted them
    provides an ability, but can only be used by a specific role

    I'll edit more items in if I or someone else thinks of them.
  6. jigglypuffers42

    jigglypuffers42

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    You'll notice that 90% of all items do one of thie things starptorcall said, but are user specific
  7. dak

    dak

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    nice compilation, im astonished someone that interested in the game would observe and never play for over a year

    it's got most things covered, only major role that i noticed missing was the thief. largely correct too, most "mistakes" are up to host preferences, like, for example, bodyguards not being blocked by safeguards et cetera. good work of reference

    you should, you know, play a game sometime...
  8. alkinesthetase

    alkinesthetase <@dtc> every day with alk is a bad day
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    Thanks, I'm glad that it comes in handy to someone. I find as much enjoyment in watching most games as I do in playing them, and in some games more so (for example, I'm terrible at all shooters, but it's great fun to watch my friends kill each other in a game). Mafia is a prime case of this for me. Compiling this list was mostly for fun (honestly), so it's good that someone has a use for it. (In fact, the main reason I made this account was to put this list up and contribute something. I've been leeching off the community for months, so it's good to give back =])
  9. jigglypuffers42

    jigglypuffers42

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    I'm a big fan of the more obscure even if not practical roles, and i can't recognize quite a bit of what's in that post you made. Maybe it's that we call the roles different things, but i would be interested to hear where you learn the roles from, and/or what a few of the ones i can't recognize are
  10. alkinesthetase

    alkinesthetase <@dtc> every day with alk is a bad day
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    Hm. Regarding sources then...

    I derive mafia role ideas from a variety of sites, primarily among them Smogon. I've also used stuff from epicmafia and mafiascum. In terms of stuff from Smogon, I have 19 complete post games and role lists backed up to word documents on my computer, for new games and old ones alike, to aggregate experimental concepts and data. That's also why I spectate on smogon; I watch every active mafia game from start to end, every day, to see who dies and how. I have personally spectated every game since Nintendo Mafia, I believe. That was about when I started mafia in private communities, and I turned to Smogon for ideas. I picked up postgames from some old games too, with more experimental concepts (the original Viva, MGS, and Unicycle postgames, among others). (I have friends who actually do stuff on Smogon, like the Pokemon metagame, and they've told me that a lot of Smogon mafia plays out on IRC, which I totally realize. However, there's a lot to be found in just the forum threads even.)
    I've also hosted mafia games of my own; two to be exact, and my friends and I have come up with some weird roles for them. (In all honesty, the balance was missing from the games I hosted. The concepts were there though.) If you're wondering about any specific roles, chances are I can recall where i read them from memory, so feel free to ask.
    I tend to be a bit over-systematic when I write categorized documents like this though, so a lot of the names might be different. The descriptions (of which there are a lot, I'm afraid) are the reliable parts, I think. For example, I call hooker roleblocker, but the two roles are really the same.
    The priority order I list them in is what I find the most natural, but obviously priority is up to the host. Since I emphasized priority in the ordering, some actions get their own entries when they really are part of a prelisted role, and I only separate them because the priority is different. (I grouped all the kills priority-wise, for example, so the bomber kill is separate from the bomber's main role action.)
    For example, rolewarder came from DotA Mafia's goblin techies (blue_light). Nexus came from epicmafia, I'd bet. Same with some of the other ones like Party. I blended watcher and tracker into spy, although information is relevant to them both.... the list goes on. The bomber role was partially inspired by a game I hosted; I forget the other role that it came from. Probably also the goblin techies. Assassin came from roles such as Seviper in Raikage's pokemafia. Selfdestruct, from roles like Voltorb (I believe in the same game). Recruit partially comes from epicmafia (or was that mafiascum?)'s yakuza role, and partially from some stuff I came up with myself. Etc. All the above are from memory. I put a lot of time into this (considering its mass, that's probably self-evident), so I can remember writing most of it.
  11. Agape

    Agape

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    I nominate that guide to be smogged and stickied, it's great.

    Or perhaps just smog and create a sticky thread with links to stuff like this and other useful articles.

    All for quality increase and quality increase for all!
  12. Exarius

    Exarius

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    Small formatting and editing into it (remove a few names, etc), and +1 to Agape's suggestion from here.

    Also, out of pure curiosity, what roles/ideas did you grab from MGS? I haven't had time nor do have time to read it fully right now, so I'll just ask.
  13. shade

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    i think we can all agree pepperoni pizza shall never be included in mafia again
  14. alkinesthetase

    alkinesthetase <@dtc> every day with alk is a bad day
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    @ Exarius - I don't think it was so much the roles in MGS as it was the concept, which I think was revolutionary for its time. Most of the roles were (not as an insult, conventional roles help exhibit more advanced levels of gameplay) not too out of the ordinary. In addition, the CODEC system being a game-specific concept that many roles worked with, I didn't really want to bring it into what I intended to be a universal role list. However, the concept - more than three teams, whose win conditions were not all mutually exclusive with the others, in short the new "tactical game" - was definitely a change. (Games like We Don't Need No Mafia followed this as well; I can't think of any others off the top of my head.) I keep postgames that interest me, so the idea was worth remembering.
    In addition, a lot of the roles were stylized with the faction concepts for the game, especially neutrals. (At least, that's what I gathered from reading postgame files.) The individual parts of Solid or Liquid Snake's roles, for example, were probably not revolutionary in and of themselves. Kills, bodyguards, etc. But zooming out a bit and considering the big picture - of how one neutral was designed to manipulate the other, and so on - these normal powers, wrapped together, take on a more unique and significant appearance, because they are designed specifically to suit the game they are part of. So really, you could consider my text wall to be more of a "powers list" than an actual roles list.

    @Agape - thanks! I do agree that a general purpose host guide would really be great (that being the purpose of this topic, so it's self-evident =]). I think, though, that the really important factors of being a good host, such as balancing games and making decisions about rules, can only come from experience. Anybody can spend an hour whipping up roles and throwing them into a list - I have chatlogs with friends doing exactly that. But for all my ingenuity, the balance in the games I hosted was... poor. There really is no substitute for experience, I'd bet.

    As for formatting, it was better formatted in its original form as a word document; however I try to choose formatting styles that translate well into a plaintext file - jump tags, headings separated by hyphen or tilde characters. Since there was no attachment on the posts (as far as I'm aware), and it seemed rather unnecessary to impede access with a service like Megaupload (considering it's all just text at the end of the day), pastebin was my first idea. If you want the original word document, I can put that up somewhere, it's about 136kb so nothing serious.
  15. Mekkah

    Mekkah
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    You could publicize a Google Doc instead, but I know where you're coming from with the plain text thing. Everything in my Mafia folder is .txt.
  16. alkinesthetase

    alkinesthetase <@dtc> every day with alk is a bad day
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    That's probably an option I should have remembered.

    https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AT6xJKAHEQh9ZHh2YmtjNV81ZjVkd21iZDk&hl=en&authkey=CPfWqNIK
    It's really not that different from the plaintext version already up there (I stick to one font in most documents I create, the only difference is bolding and font size), but if this is your preferred medium there you have it.
    The original had its index in two columns; that formatting feature was lost. The rest should be fine.
  17. Engineer Pikachu

    Engineer Pikachu Good morning, you bastards!
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    That's a long list. I'm temporarily rendered speechless by this.
  18. Thorns

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    heaps of these terms for roles aren't ones we use here but as you said before it's your personal mafia vocabulary (like hooker being roleblocker etc)

    i could probably work on a translation for these roles and short descriptions if you could explain some of the ones i don't get. we'd collate it with the item list (with short descriptions added) and smog it, sticky it, whatever. quite a useful resource i'd imagine
  19. Raikage

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    That's a very good guide, alkines, some might even say unbelievable for someone who hasn't even played a game. Like dak said, you ought to play a game soon. Illuminator is Ampharos from my game, right?
  20. alkinesthetase

    alkinesthetase <@dtc> every day with alk is a bad day
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  21. Unbreakable

    Unbreakable

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    These compliations of information about roles, powers and items are all well and good, but in all my time observing these games never once have I seen a primer on mafia strategy, outside of the one Smog article about the "fuck tiger" maneuver.
  22. Walrein

    Walrein

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    Hey look a massive necro post.

    The reason no one has made a guide on mafia strategy is that strategy differs for every game. What works one time might not work the next. The closest thing we have to a standard strategy is the village leader system, and there are a few Smog articles on that.
  23. Outlaw

    Outlaw

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    And the reason only one person has made a guide on roles is cause everyone is really lazy.
  24. auramaster

    auramaster

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    Perhaps a Smog article on playing as a Mafia or playing in a Multifaction game would be helpful? I know False Claiming has already gotten its own article, but there is nothing about negotiating with neutrals/the other Mafia, what to do when you are being lynched, how and when to best mole the village, etc. while absolutely nothing has been written about Multifaction. Although Walrein is right to an extent, I think there are certain strategies common to all Mafia games of a certain type, such as the Mafia trying to work together in a 1v2 game, that could be discussed.
  25. Ditto

    Ditto /me huggles
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    Me and a couple of others have started a Mafia Role Spreadsheet, but we've been kinda busy lately and haven't kept up on it.

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