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Weather Forecast: Clear Skies

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Sylivian, Sep 3, 2012.

  1. Sylivian


    Sep 3, 2012
    Hello Smogon!

    Sylivian here. I used to be pretty good at Pokémon, but then, I took an arrow in the knee...

    Just kidding.

    I found myself frequently on the Shoddybattle leaderboards all the way back in gen 4. UU was definitely my favourite tier back then, and I was able to keep a constant top 50 presence, albeit under a different name than I do now.
    I also happened to be a pretty good Ubers player, and decent enough at OU. I didn't play much OU after the HGSS release, though. The metagame just got centralized and boring. Some of my HGSS RMTs are still here on the forums tho, but they are, posted under my old name.

    So, with the new boring OU metagame HGSS left for me, I had quit Pokémon out of boredom. But with the release of BW2, I could no longer resist it. I had to play this fantastic game again. I worked myself through some warstories, read some articles, and I was good to go! I scrambled an anti-weather team together, hit the ladder and had pretty good succes.

    So, coming back to Pokémon wasn't such a bad idea after all! I prepared myself to make another anti-weather team, which I will now show to you all.


    Some statistics:
    0 Pokémon weak to Stealh Rock, 3 resists.
    5 Pokémon are affected by Spikes.
    2 Pokémon are affected by Toxic Spikes.
    I have a phazer.
    I do not have a Rapid Spinner.

    Changes are in red

    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Def
    Calm Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Lava Plume
    - Toxic
    - Roar

    Changed to specially defensive as many raters suggested.

    Walling pretty much any sun sweeper around.
    Lure out bulky waters.
    Dealing damage with his offensive moves / being annoying

    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 32 Def / 220 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Scald
    - Ice Beam
    - Toxic
    - Recover

    As suggested by Superpowerdude.

    Previously used Pokémon:
    Show Hide
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Scald
    - Roar
    - Wish
    - Protect

    Vaporeon is a really great Pokémon. He's bulky, has access to nice supporting moves in Scald, Roar and Wish and has a sexy butt. Just look at it. DO IT.

    Vaporeon is an excellent pivot. It walls most physical attackers well enough, and is able to phaze any set-uppers. Scald is a godsend to bulky waters, and is just mandatory on any bulky Water. Roar is used for phazing, and turns Vaporeon into a great Gyarados counter. Even if Vaporeon gets taunted, the Scald burn will eventually kick in.

    Wish and Protect are in for Vaporeon's sake as well as the teams sake. Pretty much any team would be happy with a nice 232 HP heal.

    I use a standard physically defensive EV spread.

    Phazing any set-uppers or annoying Pokémon whenever he wants
    Burning physical attackers
    Walling most rain sweepers

    Item: Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Surf
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Trick

    Hydreigon used to be in here, because he has interesting options in Fire Blast and Focus Blast. However, I found out that with Hydreigon, I am ridiculously weak to Breloom. I found out the hard way.
    I got 6-0'd by a SD Breloom
    So, some guy who happened to roflstomp me with Breloom suggested this change.
    "Just use Scarf Latios. He's really fast and hits like a truck!"
    "But what about my cool coverage with Fire Blast and Focus Blast!?"
    "Fuck coverage"

    He was right, somewhat. Latios spends most of his time revenge killing with Draco Meteor, or Tricking his Scarf on Blissey. Ever seen Blissey with a Scarf? It's stylish.

    Hidden Power and Surf are in for some coverage. Hidden Power is pretty weak compared to Hydreigon's Fire Blast, but it kills Steel types with a bit of residual damage.

    Revenge killing set-uppers Vaporeon cannot stop
    Spamming Draco Meteor whenever possible
    Crippling walls after the Scarf has lost its usefulness
    Walling Sun Sweepers alongside Heatran

    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 220 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Speed
    - Spikes
    - Thunder Wave
    - Power Whip
    - Gyro Ball

    I like this new guy. He is a lot like Forretress (save Forretress being better xD).

    Ferrothorn gives me resists Forretress can't, such as Electric. He sets up SR and paralyzes punks trying to set up on him. Power Whip is in to counter the ever-annoying Starmie, who can't do much to Specially Defensive Ferrothorn. I never missed the defense EVs, as Outrages are still comfortably blocked, and he isn't on the team to wall fighting attacks anyway. Its funny, switching in on a resisted outrage, paralyzing the dragon in question, and fantasizing about my opponent mourning about his now crippled Dragon.

    Power Whip and Gyro Ball are in for the damage, and enable me to counter all kinds of set-uppers and special sweepers, ranging from Starmie to Dragon Dance Tyranitar.

    Paralyzing pretty much everything in sight
    Walling rain sweepers alongside Vaporeon

    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 108 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Psychic
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Recover
    - Perish Song

    As suggested by Jimbon.

    Previous used Pokémon:
    Show Hide
    Item: Toxic Orb
    Ability: Poison Heal
    EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Spore
    - Leech Seed
    - Drain Punch
    - Seed Bomb

    Breloom is a fun Pokémon to use. Spore cripples whatever may switch in on him (provided it's not already statused by another team member) and just functions as a tank. Leech Seed + Drain Punch + Poison Heal make for incredibly fast health recovery. Seed Bomb offers secondary STAB, and hits water types hard: Gastrodon, Rotom-W and most Politoed are OHKO'd.

    This combination of moves leaves me walled by dragons, but Breloom isn't in to wall them anyways. He might put a dragon to sleep, but usually Ferrothorn will just come in for the Paralyze.

    I use max Attack here to maintain good offensive presence, 236 HP to hit a Leech Seed/Poison Heal number, and the leftovers in speed.

    Checking most Tyranitar
    Being really annoying
    Hunting down whatever is weak to either Grass or Fight

    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
    Naive Nature
    - Hi Jump Kick
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Fake Out
    - U-turn

    Mienshao is the Pokémon I love to lead with: Fake Out and U-turn give some really good scouting information, while Hi Jump Kick hits really hard. Hidden Power is in for nailing Gliscor and slower Landorus. If leading with Mienshao doesn't look as appealing, I usually find myself using Heatran or Ferrothorn.

    I prefer Mienshao here over other fighting types, like Infernape, mainly because of Regenerator. Regenerator allows Mienshao to show his face every now and then, being a nuisance with Fake Out/U-Turn, and switch out again, healing back to full hp.

    Emergency revenge killing
    Hitting stuff with Hi Jump Kick
    Being full health all the time


    Alright, I used to add a weaknesses/resistances table, but as I told you already, I tend to be lazy at times.
    Still, I will cover some threats that always seem to annoy me.

    Tentacruel. It's not like I'm having major problems with Tentacruel, he's just plain annoying! Heatran can't poison him, Earth Power 3HKO's. Vaporeon can't harm him. Latios doesn't OHKO. Ferrothorn actually fares pretty well against him. Breloom doesn't OHKO. Mienshao can't harm him.
    Okay, he's not really a threat, but he makes me lose all momentum, which is kinda important in Pokémon battles.

    Fighting types. I'm lacking on the resistance part here. Latios isn't exactly a wall, so I usually throw Breloom or Vaporeon in against fighting attacks. It's not reliable, but I can play around it well enough.
    Special mentions go to Swords Dance Lucario and the rare Swords Dance Terrakion.

    Users of Hurricane. Heatran can only switch in so often, so I have to resort to revenge killing. Again, I have to play around this. It can be a real pain at times.
    Special mentions: Tornadus

    SubCM Jirachi. Vaporeon has to phaze him asap. Mienshao does a number with Hi Jump Kick. Heatran may kill it before it accumulates too many boosts. When things get out of hand, Latios can trick his scarf on Jirachi.

    Toxicroak. Annoying when he gets a sub up, as only Latios is capable of a clean OHKO. Heatran will just get outsped.

    Defensive Psychic types. I dont have a really reliable way of disposing them, and they often find themselves annoying me.
    Special mentions: the rare Cresselia


    Well, my RMT has come to and end. I think I have covered everything I wanted.. Please rate!

  2. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte Who says I can't get stoned?
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Jul 5, 2012

    Cool team! You've got a lot of synergy here- there is not a single type that can hit more than two pokemon super effectively. You're right though- with Hurricane and Superpower, Tornadus rips up your whole team. You have a good way to check it, through Latios, but you'll have to sack somebody. Just a warning, on teams with Tornadus, play Latios conservatively, because once he's gone you lose.

    Some of your sets look a bit ineffecient, however. To help Latios revenge kill some threats, I suggest you change Breloom's set into something more offensive.

    Breloom @ Life Orb
    Jolly nature, 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Spore / Bullet Seed / Mach Punch / Swords Dance

    This Breloom hits just as hard as Latios- and has priority to boot. Technician boosts Mach Punch up to 90 BP, giving you a powerful, right off the bat way to finish off weaker foes. You still have the ability to Spore, and with this set you become faster and get Swords Dance. Bullet Seed also hits like a truck- it usually hits a lot harder than Seed Bomb and breaks substitutes as well. An Adamant nature will work if you want a bit more power.

    Nice team, hope I helped!
  3. Jirachee

    Jirachee scootin
    is a Tournament Directoris an official Team Rateris a Super Moderatoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Leader

    Sep 24, 2010

    Your team looks pretty weak to strong fighting types, especially the most dangerous of them all, Choice band Terrakion. Your only Fighting resist is Latios which is pretty frail when it comes to tanking its powerful hits. It takes a ton of damage from Close Combat, and since it's your only Fighting resist, it's pretty easy to predict it switching in and then destroy it with Stone Edge, then switching out and coming back later to finish the job by spamming Close Combat. In sand it can switch into Heatran fairly easily, and since you don't have your own weather, this is more than likely to happen. Honestly I think that you could use Slowbro over Vaporeon. Both are extremely bulky Water types but they have a few key differences that gives them different niches. While Vaporeon can Roar and Wish, Slowbro has Regenerator which means it can switch out fairly easily, and an amazing Fighting resist letting it take multiple Close Combats from Terrakion and the likes. It will still be able to burn stuff with Scald. That should greatly help your team against opposing Fighting types.

    I think that you should use a different Heatran set then, as while your current set is pretty cool, you could use one that is more useful. The Specially Defensive version would be, in my opinion, much more valuable to your team. First of all, it can tank much more Hurricanes than your current set with its fantastic bulk which is awesome. This set also gives you a phazer, which is something you'll have to drop if you accept my suggestion of using Slowbro, and since it looks to be very important for you you can get it back there. The last thing is that Heatrab will be able to set up Stealth Rock. You might be wondering why is that important since you already have an amazing Stealth Rocker in Ferrothorn. The reason is that you will then be able to put Spikes on Ferrothorn, which gives you more hazards to abuse with most of your Pokemon being very good at forcing switches. In my opinion this will abuse your team's main strengths a lot more and will make it much more effective, as well as giving you an opportunity to set up at least one hazard against most teams, as Ferrothorn is usually a very bad SRer against Sun teams.

    Anyway cool team, here are the sets you should use:
    Slowbro and Heatran (open)

    Slowbro @ Leftovers
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    ~Ice Beam
    ~Slack Off

    Heatran @ Leftovers
    Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    ~Lava Plume
    ~Stealth Rock

    Good luck!
  4. Shining_Latios


    May 5, 2010
    Hey, cool team. You stated Tentacruel as a threat. He does look fairly annoying to your team especially since Ferrothorn risks getting burned by Scald. Your other Pokemon aren't able to dent it, either. If it is used under rain, it will be getting 12.5% recovery each turn from Rain Dish + Leftovers which proves to be a nuisance. I would suggest running Psyshock over Hidden Power Fire. Psyshock allows you to hit Tentacruel effectively without the Special Attack drop from Draco Meteor. It's also nice for hitting special walls harder.

    One pretty big threat I see to your team is also Volcarona. You can possibly try using an Air Balloon on the Heatran set that Jirachi provided so Hidden Power Ground is rendered useless and you can proceed to Roar Volcarona out.

    The only other problems I see are Reuniclus and Gengar, who can be quite annoying for this team to face. If Reuniclus is able to setup Trick Room, it can really do some damage to your team. Gengar is equally as annoying with Substitute since it hits your team pretty hard. I suggest trying out a Choice Band Scizor over Mienshao. You are able to dispose the likes of Reuniclus and Gengar pretty easily with its two STAB move and is also a good way of hitting Cresselia hard. Scizor can as well take care of the Swords Dance Terrakion problem you stated. With access to U-turn, Scizor can effectively take on the role of scouting opponent's and bringing momentum to your side, which is very useful. Scizor's other STAB, Bullet Punch, brings reliable priority to your team, which is always helpful and very good at revenging foes with it's immediate power. Additionally, Scizor learns Pursuit, which is very nice for trapping opponents, most notably Latios and Latias.

    Hope I helped and here is the set.
    Set (open)

    Scizor @ Choice Band | Technician
    Adamant | 248 HP / 252 Attack / 8 Speed
    U-turn | Bullet Punch | Pursuit | Superpower
  5. Sylivian


    Sep 3, 2012
    @Electrolyte @Jirachi

    Thanks for the comments! I will try out all the sets you two posted. Shifting the defensive role from Breloom to Heatran seems like a good thing, since Heatran has superior bulk. Adding Slowbro does help with my fighting weakness, but I will miss the Wishes =/
    I will keep you updated on the changes.

    @Shining Latios Sorry, I cannot see this change working out. Mienshao is in for cleaning, and Scizor just doesn't cut that role, because of the restrictions given by its Choice item.
    Still, thanks a lot for the comment, I appreciate it.
  6. Jimbon

    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Jan 24, 2012
    Hi there,

    Nice team, I remember playing you with my Cresselia and it looked pretty problematic for you to face. Many other common threats such as Fighting types in general look annoying to face, as you really lack a reliable switch in. You also identified Tentacruel as a problem, and it has no problem spinning away your hazards and setting them up against you and potentially burning your switch-ins to Tentacruel such as Ferrothorn and Breloom with Scald. To help with these problems, I'd recommend you try out a Celebi over your current Breloom. Celebi patches up many of the problems your team has, most importantly giving you an additional check alongside Vaporeon to the common Fighting types that cause havoc for your team. Celebi also acts as a great check to Tentacruel, not really caring about Toxic Spikes / Scald burns due to Natural Cure while also being able to Recover off the damage it takes. This particular Celebi set (listed below) helps also gives you a good answer to Sub Calm Mind Jirachi and even things such as Cresselia. With Perish Song, you are severely limiting the turns either of these are allowed to stay in. In Jirachi's case, it deters it from setting up multiple Calm Minds and being able to hit everything on your team hard. Losing Breloom is really not that much of a drawback. Breloom's Spore status can often overlap with Heatran's Toxic and Ferrothorn's Thunder Wave, often granting your opponents free switches into certain 'mons. With Mienshao being able to hit much harder offensively with Breloom while also share similar typing, there is not a whole lot of need for Breloom on your team, as it really just compounds your fighting weakness more.

    Also looking over your movesets, there were a few things I picked up which you could change to help out in terms of efficiency. If you do choose to go with Celebi > Breloom, then you may find that stat boosters such as Reuniclus and Jirachi are a lot less threatening to play against. This lessens the need for Roar on Vaporeon, which then allows you to use Toxic > Roar on Vaporeon. The status Vaporeon provides is nice for being able to hit boosting physical attackers which Vaporeon can take on very well. Between Wish / Toxic / Protect, you should have no trouble against said physical attackers if you play Vaporeon well. With Toxic on Vaporeon, this also opens up a new moveslot for Heatran. If you choose to stick with your offensive Substitute set, I'd suggest you try out Hidden Power [Ice] over Toxic. Toxic on Heatran does not seem logical to me, especially when you're running an offensive Heatran and do not have the bulk to stay around for a few turns to rack up Toxic damage. This is why Vaporeon makes much better use of it, because Vaporeon can actually outstall certain Pokemon thanks to it's recovery in Wish, which is something Heatran lacks. Hidden Power [Ice] completes Heatran's coverage, allowing you to hit Dragons who often switch into Heatran thinking you are defensive. It hits Dragonite and Salamence it particular, both of which fall to Heatran if you have a Substitute intact. It also allows you to hit things such as weakened Tornadus-T in Rain, who you identified as a threat thanks to how easily it can spam Hurricanes.

    Alternatively, if this suggestion is not right for you, then I second Jirachi's suggestion of a Specially Defensive Heatran over your current set. It gives you a much better check to the Hurricane spammers you mentioned, while also allowing Ferrothorn to run Spikes over Stealth Rock, as Heatran has Stealth Rock.

    Celebi (open)
    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 108 Spe
    - Psychic
    - Hidden Power [Fire] / Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Recover
    - Perish Song
  7. Joeyboy

    Joeyboy Has got the gift of gab
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Nov 30, 2010
    Cool team dude!

    Anyway it seems your team is kinda weak to Sand Offense, specifically Stoutland who can make its way through your team if Vaporeon is damaged. Latios doens't serve as too good of a revenge killer here due to Tyranitars presence. Anyway an idea I had was to switch Breloom's set up. I recommend trying a Technician Breloom over your current set. The set would be:

    Show Hide

    Breloom (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 232 HP / 252 Atk / 24 Spe
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    - Swords Dance
    - Bullet Seed
    - Mach Punch
    - Spore

    The EVs allow to maintain some of the bulk that allows you to play with it mid-game while the Atk EVs and Swords Dance allow to do some end-game sweeping. This lil guy is a HUGE pain for Sand teams, in particular Sand Offense. It makes another handy Stoutland check, while keeping a lot of the positives your current Breloom set has.

    I also second Jimbon's recommendation of Slowbro over Vaporeon.

    Good luck!
  8. Sylivian


    Sep 3, 2012

    The Celebi fits very well into the idea of this team, and I will definitely give it a try. Thanks for the rate :)


    Since the Celebi set provided by Jimbon looks very promising, I probably won't be checking out your set. Still, the Breloom set is indeed very effective at checking Stoutland, so I might give it a try when the Celebi set doesn't turn out to be much good. Thanks for the rate!

    EDIT: The Celebi set is very effective. I'm not sure about which Hidden Power to use, though :) I'll change it in the OP.
  9. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude !
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Mar 15, 2012
    Hey man interasting team here!

    Ok First of i agree with Jirachi's suggestion of a Bulkier Heatran Set>Current Set This is because Heatran help's your team take powerful Hurricane's and gives you an abuser of Roar so you can phaze out some of the set up sweepers your team doesn't like such as SubCM Jirachi, although Celebi can deal with him using Perish Song Roar is also a good way to rack up entry hazards and since Jirachi's Heatran has Stealth Rocks Ferrothorn can use Spikes>Stealth Rock to help build up the pressure of entry hazards. Ferrothorn is a great candidate for the move Spikes because of it's great bulk allowing him to set up multiple layers quite easily.

    Another thing regarding your Ferrothorn is the fact that you are running Thunderwave alongside Gyro Ball. This is not exactly ideal because the way Gyro Ball works is the slower you are to your opponent the more damage it does. Thunderwave destroys the purpose of Gyro Ball because it qaurters your opponents speed. That is why a good replacement for that would be Leech Seed>Gyro Ball or Thunderwave Leech Seed gives Ferrothorn a relaible way of recovery so it can continue to wall pokemon and also make pokemon switch out more racking up the damage from your entry hazards. Leech Seed>Thunderwave can be used to if you find with just Power Whip as your only attacking move your Ferrothorn isn't to threatening to your opponent however you lose the threatening ability to cripple opponents with Thunderwave.

    Looking at the rest of the team you said you have had a problem with Hurricanes and powerful Fighting-Type attacks. Additionally if you decide to go with these changes you gain Spikes and Stealth Rocks support so you might want a spinblocker to keep these hazards on the field. For these reasons Jellicent>Vaporeon is a great change. With acces to Water Absorb reliable recovery in Recover acces to Toxic and being a bulky Water-Type Jellicent can fufill Vaporeons niche on this team perfectly. In fact he can preform it better. with a spiecally defensive ev spread and an awesome ghost typing Jellicent can also tank Hurricanes from Tornadus-T as well as being able to spin-block and take an immunity to Fighting-Type attacks three things that Vaporeon could only dream of doing. The only thing that Vaporeon can do that Jellicent can't is phaze with Roar, but if you decide to go with the more defensive Heatran set then Heatran acts as your phazer anyway. While using Jellicent your team also gets the infamous defensive core of Ferrothorn and Jellicent known has "Ferrocent" This core goes harmoniously together because of there good synergy typing wise and functional wise as Ferrothorn sets up Spikes that Jellicent can protect. If you are implementing these changes a Standad Ferrothorn Spread >Current Sets Spread will be more beneficial. An ev spread of 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD and a Relaxed nature is the spread that i am talking about and is great to let you take a little more phsyical punishment. With Jellicent and Heatran being able to take on special onslaughts you can afford to use this slight tweak in the ev spread.

    good luck with the team i hope i helped!

    Show Hide
    Show Hide

    Jellicent @ Leftovers| Water Absorb
    Calm | 252 Hp / 36 Def / 220 Sp Def
    Scald| Toxic| Recover| Ice Beam/Shadow Ball

    Show Hide

    Specially Defensive Heatran--->Current Heatran


    .Leech Seed--->Thunderwave/Gyro Ball (Impish if using Thunderwave)
    .Spikes--->Stealth Rock
    .252 Hp / 88 Def / 168 Sp Def Relaxed Nature---> 252 Hp / 4 Def / 252 Sp Def Sassy Nature

  10. Sylivian


    Sep 3, 2012
    Thanks for the rate. The changes you suggested work out really well! I'm not sure about Specially Defensive Heatran though. I've started using Stealth Rock on him now, for I run Spikes on Ferrothorn. I might tweak Heatran a bit, but I think a more offensive style suits Heatran better.

    I've started using Jellicient over Vaporeon, as a spinblocker. The lack of Wish support hurts at times, but with the team becoming tankier, it's less of an issue.

    Fun fact: this team is starting to look like my RU team. Stacking up hazards, and have someone (Mienshao) clean up. I like it!

    EDIT: The OP has been updated. I´m figuring out what Heatran set I should use. It will be changed when I am done experimenting.

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