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Weather is not the only way to win.

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Natsu Slayer, Jan 20, 2013.

  1. Natsu Slayer

    Natsu Slayer

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2012
    Messages:
    37
    The team:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Introduction:

    A lot of things changed in pokemon showdown, Garchomp to OU, Gensect banned, Tornadus-T banned... That's why I've decided to create a new team.
    I wanted to do a team without weather, so I started to prove some pokemons. After a month proving things that seems the best team for me but I need your suggestions to make it better. What do you think?


    A closer look:

    [​IMG]

    Breloom (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+ Atk,-SATK)
    - Spore
    - Low Sweep / Stone Edge
    - Bullet Seed
    - Mach Punch

    Breloom has always been good, but now even more so. With his dream world ability Expert and the sword dance movement can be a big problem for many teams.

    Because I have SD Sizor (and I didn't want two SD users) I tought that Breloom would be better with Choice Band.

    Also thanks to spore movement, that does not fail, I can put to sleep any opponent's pokemon (unless It has insomnia or a similar ability) and prevent the use of Stealth Rock.

    [​IMG]

    Scizor (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 HP / 40 Atk / 216 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Bullet Punch
    - Bug Bite
    - Roost

    Scizor has the same ability as Breloom. I could say that his role on the team is more or less the same. The difference is that scizor has less speed but more defense, special defense and life.

    Also with some prediction and the Superpower movement I can OHKO pokemons like Heatran or Magnezone.

    Because Scizor can't take a lot of damange from Stealth Rock / Spikes with a LO set I tought that a Bulky would be better.

    [​IMG]

    Heatran (M) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Lava Plume
    - Roar
    -
    Earth Power
    - Toxic


    Heatran, one of the best fire type pokemon so far with Volcarona.

    With its ability Flash Fire I can cover the weakness of my first two pokemons and easily defeat sun teams with Lava PLume / Earth Power.

    The problem I see is that Tornadus / Thundurs-T: 252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus-T Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 255-302 (66.23 - 78.44%) -- guaranteed 2HKO // 4 Atk Life Orb Tornadus Hammer Arm vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 203-239 (52.72 - 62.07%) -- 98.83% chance to 2HKO, but fot that I have Rotom-W and Latias.

    Then I have Roar which goes well against volcarona.

    [​IMG]

    Landorus-T (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - U-Turn


    With the arrival of BW2 Landorus has obtained a new form and a new skill, Intimidation. Many people said that landorus-T was not too useful because of its low speed, but over time people released that is a good and useful pokemon.

    Although it's main function is to work as a lead it must be said that this pokemon can work as revenge killer in some cases ( specially against sand teams ).

    Finally, and although some think it is not very important, I'll explain why these Ev's.

    The Ev's in defense and life are because of Terrakion and Dragonite, pokemons that can come to be a problem, that Landorus can defeat easily.

    It also has intimidate, which also helps.

    [​IMG]

    Latios (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Trick
    - Psychic


    Latias has 110 base speed, allowing to outspeed Dragonite and defeat him after rocks with draco meteor.

    Besides being a good sweeper, Latias has bulk, so can wall a few pokemons like Hippowdon (without toxic).

    But the reason because I took Psycshock inestead of Refresh or Substitute is because I had problems with some fighting types (and also some walls that I've mentioned).

    Latios has more special atack than Latias, so it works better as a Choice Scarf user. With the choice Scarf set It can outspeed most OU dragons (exept Latios scarf).

    [​IMG]

    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 28 SAtk / 232 SDef
    Calm Nature (+ sdef,-Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Thunder Wave
    - Pain Split / HIdden Power [Ice]

    Rotom-W is a good pokemon against rain teams. With that set I can take hits from politoed and starmie, wich are common pokemons in rain, and with Volt Switch I can beat them. It also helps the team with thunder wave (I can t-wave Latios scarf for example predicting the switch).

    Hp [Ice] works against Landorus and Gliscor, beacause hydropump can miss but Pain Split helps me beacause of SR / Spikes damange when my opponent uses a stall team.


    A final look:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    Importable version:

    Show Hide
    Breloom (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Spore
    - Mach Punch
    - Bullet Seed
    - Low Sweep

    Scizor (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 HP / 40 Atk / 216 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Bullet Punch
    - Bug Bite
    - Roost

    Heatran (M) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Lava Plume
    - Roar
    - Earth Power
    - Toxic

    Landorus (Landorus-T) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - U-turn

    Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Trick
    - Psychic

    Rotom (Rotom-W) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 28 SAtk / 232 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Thunder Wave
    - Pain Split
  2. Mr. Green

    Mr. Green

    Joined:
    May 14, 2011
    Messages:
    143
    Hi, there

    Very solid team, I have only a few changes to recommend in different moveset. The first thing I notice is that every Sweeper your team to do big damage needs Boost, Breloom is that Latias that Scizor.
    For this I would suggest Adamant Breloom with Choice Band, so you have a Pokemon that can do immediate damage without losing a turn to Swords Dance boost, also one of the Weather adversaries as Sandstorm, then Hazards (Stealth Rock and Spikes and Toxic Spikes times) Life Orb since most do not have a Rapid Spinner Breloom would have very little revenue, while Choice Band makes immediate damage, at least one Pokemon that makes them want it in my opinion, also in this way becomes a priority powerful Mach Punch and Bullet Seed would many damage.

    Same goes for between Life Orb Scizor + Entry Hazards especially Stealth Rock, would not have many entries as Scizor and above all do not know what might stick, so I would say to put Roost> Superpower, to recover HP precious, especially during Stat Up Swords Dance thanks to Roost have more ability to use Swords Dance and attack later.

    To Heatran instead as I read the descriptions say it is strong against Volcarona, but with this set, however, can not beat Volcarona in the absence of Toxic, while Landorus you still Rotom-W helps you to Gliscor Rotom-W and Scizor that with Roost find a space for Statup, so I see no need to use it with the Ballon for the Dragons as you Latias and Landorus Revenge-killer-T which is bulky, I would say that is enough to keep them, even Scizor with Bullet Punch.
    I would change therefore set to Heatran, even if it is SDef Tyranitar Earth Power, however, does not make him great damage.
    I suggest Specially Defensive Heatran, with Substitute + Roar, with Substitute can use Roar surely and Protect serves to recover 6% of HP each turn with Leftovers and for scouting sets opponents, Will-or -Wisp/Toxic not even need much with Lava Plume have good chance of burn out from behind the Substitute.
    Thanks to Protect you understand what move you block the opponents Scarfer for example Landorus and decide which move to make you accordingly, then of course you avoid Statup opponents.

    The last thing I propose to move in evs special attack Latias to HP to do more endurance, just to aumentarti special attack you have Calm Mind, then Dragon Press that move is? Does not exist. Put Dragon Pulse. That is all.
    Good luck, with your team!

    tl;dr
    Show Hide
    Breloom (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Spore
    - Mach Punch
    - Bullet Seed
    - Stone Edge

    Heatran (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Roar
    - Lava Plume
    - Protect

    Roost > Superpower (for Scizor)
    252 HP / 252 Spd / 4 Def with Dragon Pulse (for Latias)
  3. Natsu Slayer

    Natsu Slayer

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2012
    Messages:
    37

    I'll try CB breloom, but supepower is the thing I don't want to change, because of ferrothorn and jirachi, but I'll try it too.

    I'll try heatran too. I don't see any problem without ice moves in that team. I'll test all and I'll make the changes in a few days.

    Probably ( not sure ) scizor CB could be good too inestead of CB breloom because a locked scizor is better than a locked breloom in my opinion.

    Thanks =).

    Keep rating people!
  4. Dice

    Dice what's a god to a nonbeliever
    is a Tutoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis Smogon Frontier's Arcade Star

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,040
    This team is surprisingly very solid, and there are not many threats that can simply break through it. The biggest threats of the team seem to be Volcarona, Hidden Power Fire Lati@s, Breloom, Conkeldurr, Lucario, and Toxicroak. The first can beat Heatran with Quiver Dance + Roost or with Hidden Power Ground after it pops your Balloon. Hidden Power Fire Lati@s gives you hell since you have to rely on Heatran who isn't that great of a check in general. Breloom is troublesome since you rely on Latias to check it, but you lack another Pokémon to outspeed it and hit it to do damage. Toxicroak can set up on several of your Pokémon, outspeed and nail Landorus-T with Ice Punch, and Sucker Punch Latias before you can Psyshock it. Conkeldurr can survive basically anything you throw at it and OHKO most of your team. Lucario with Ice Punch can be a major problem as well. My suggestions will be minimal due to this team already having a solid core. First of all, I recommend Thunder Wave on Rotom-W instead of Will-o-Wisp. Scizor, Ferrothorn, and the other usual targets of Will-o-Wisp are covered will by your team and Thunder Wave effectively neuters Lati@s and Volcarona, both of whom are major threats to this team. Secondly, I recommend a faster spread on Landorus-T to cause /some/ damage to Breloom with U-Turn and it can outspeed Toxicroak and Earthquake it before it can Ice Punch you. Although you have to be weary of switching into Toxicroak, this is the easiest way to help beat it. 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 Spe with a Jolly Nature insures you outspeed all Toxicroaks, Brelooms, and Dragonites and you can hit them before they hit you. As previously mentioned, Lucario and Conkeldurr are the only two threats that haven't been discussed yet. To fix these problems, try a Life Orb Latias instead of Calm Mind. Life Orb may seem weird, but it still gives you the necessary bulk you want while being able to OHKO each of these Pokémon with Hidden Power Fire and Psychic. Psyshock isn't needed on this set since CM Keldeo is rare, and Psychic is more powerful and can hit Conkeldurr. Although you lose more badly to the pink blobs, Life Orb Latias cannot bypass them anyways. Here's the set. Good luck.

    Latias (open)

    Latias (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psychic
    - Roost
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
  5. zak keeble

    zak keeble

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    4
    setup sweepers such as thunderus and volcarona seem a big threat u could fix this by using a sdef heatran over ur current set

    (Heatran) (M) @ leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Lava Plume
    - Roar
    - Protect
    - toxic
  6. Natsu Slayer

    Natsu Slayer

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2012
    Messages:
    37
    Thanks to all, I'll use the max esp def ser on hetran because of volcarona and I'll try life orb latias. Toxicroak isn't a big problem in my opnion because I have rotom-w with will - o wishp and drain punch can't ohko me. And thundurus has focus blast:

    252 SpA Expert Belt Thundurus-T Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 235-278 (61.03 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus-T Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 255-302 (66.23 - 78.44%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Thundurus-T Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 196-232 (50.9 - 60.25%) -- 86.72% chance to 2HKO ( scarf ).

    But as Princes Bri mentioned latias LO solves my problems =D.

    Well now I'll test some chages. The only ting I'm not sure about is t-wave but can be good. WIthout t-wave I'll have to sacrifise scizor against latios: 252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 195-229 (64.56 - 75.82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.


    PS: Toxikroak can go jolly =(.

    Edit: All fixed =D. I'll keep Psyshock because of special walls. It's just me xD.
  7. Dice

    Dice what's a god to a nonbeliever
    is a Tutoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis Smogon Frontier's Arcade Star

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,040
    Jolly Toxicroak is very rare and unused! You can try out a speedy Landorus-T, but it is not worth it.
  8. Natsu Slayer

    Natsu Slayer

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2012
    Messages:
    37

    Ok, thanks. I'm going to copy your set to ouspeed toxicroak and special defense heatran and jirachi =D.
  9. Basileus

    Basileus

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    279
    I suggest toxic orb Breloom as oppose to your current build. The reason being that with scizor you aren't going to want two EXTREMELY SLOW technicians.

    Without proper set up, breloom is rather dull and I suggest this:

    Breloom (M) @ Toxic orb
    Trait: Poison heal
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+ Atk,-SATK)
    - Spore
    - Focus punch
    - Substitute
    - seed bomb

    Now for heatran, you will definitely not want to be caught by a ground or rock type with nothing but lava plume so I suggest Earth power over protect and Air Balloon instead of leftovers so you aren't hurt by any spikes (but that isn't so bad to begin with) and that you have a moment of immunity to ground attacks. Naturally you may need more Spa, so add that too. I also recommend toxic if you want to stall better. so here is a great set that fears nothing:

    Heatran (M) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 SpA
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Lava Plume
    - Roar
    - Earth power
    - Substitute/toxic

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