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Weather, uh?

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by ArabianPhoenix, Apr 13, 2012.

  1. ArabianPhoenix

    ArabianPhoenix

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2011
    Messages:
    6
    Weather, uh?


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Hi smogon!
    This is my first post, and my first RMT here.
    (Before starting, I want to specify that English is not my first language, so don' t be suprised of any blunder, and please feel free to correct my grammar ^^)

    That said, I' ll talk about how this team was born.

    Team Building

    Looking at the current metagame, the most obvious characterization that you can think of is the absolute weather tyranny.
    Then, i thought:
    1) Once won a weather war, you have the victory in hand.
    2) The easiest way to counteract a weather is with another weather.
    3) However, the mere presence of Politoed, Tyranitar, Ninetales, among others, in the opposing team, will be an alarm bell for the opponent, and all this will emerge in a exhausting weather war, which will debilitate the defensive department of both teams and will inhibit the offensive (for example, in the case of a toxicroak who finds itself facing a sun team).
    Even assuming the presence of a Dugtrio in a team, the opponent will be very cautious in deploying its weather inducer, and in most cases he will switchback.
    In short, the weather inducer is the backbone of a team in a weather war, and only a careless battler will leave his hope to win to take hits to right and left: quite often, on the contrary, the last pokemon that will be defeated as a result of a weather war will be the opponent' s weather inducer.
    Or your own.
    The chances to win a weather war, although may seeming high in a situation, for example, of a rain vs. a sun team, are, in fact, anything but obvious: the weather war (assuming them conducted by experienced players) have equal possibility of being won and lost. Therefore, opportunities of defeat are worryingly high.
    4) But what happens if a weather team finds itself facing a Weatherless?
    5) Simple: the weather inducer, being in most cases a pokemon in itself not very useful (it is roughly the case for all the weather inducers, except offensive variants, or ttar) will be managed with less caution, and the poor Politoed / Ninetales will be often foddered in situations that require it, and in the case in which a check has to switch in a team weatherless threat, the weather inducer will be left to die, for fear of bringing the check to the wrong move.
    Ultimately, you will often encounter in a weather-weatherless, the situation in which the wi will be removed without too much trouble.
    6) Ultimately, there will often be the situation in which the weather inducer will be removed without too much trouble.

    I wondered how to take advantage of this fact.

    The answer was:

    [​IMG]

    Heatran, with the Sunny Day moveset, succeeds magnificently, after the elimination of the weather inducer (and not before, unless you want to expire on a very frustrating war weather), to reverse the trend of the match.

    Well, the final part of the work has been done; now I needed to go back into the antiweather process and eliminate the opponent' s weather inducer: As with Ninetales is useless, I had in mind Toed and Ttar, and they shared a couter in

    [​IMG]

    Breloom, who finds no difficulty in eliminating the two mon. Also noticeable is the typing synergy between the two.

    The next member has been inserted for reasons of synergy, excellent with Heatran and pleasant even with Breloom, and in general with the two, completing the WGF core, for reasons of Countering, especially Landorus, and to further weaken potential Toed/TTars.Furthermore, with Rain Dance, this Pokemon stands itself, with Heatran,at the head of the crusade against the Weather:

    [​IMG]

    Rotom-w is the pokemon we're talking about.

    This core is very efficient in the removal of bulky waters and steels, lured or countered by all three members. It is also rather slow, and susceptible to revenging. In addition, it finds difficult to deal with strong special sweepers. For these reasons, in addition to simple synergy reasons, (ex. checking ttar, wishing, spamming paralysis)

    [​IMG]

    Jirachi joins the club.

    Continuing to follow the reasoning of take advantage of the removal of bulky water, and having the necessity to absorb terrakion attacks, another check of ttar, another status absorber, another Pokemon with excellent synergy with the rest of the team (just look at famous defensive core, of which are part Jirachi and Rotom-w, that completes,

    [​IMG]

    Gliscor, with a particular moveset, which aims to bring out the best from his teammates, joins the band.

    The sixth mon gives the fundamental Stealth Rock support, and helps to cover a lot of weaknesses. Plus, if I manage to pass it a +2, it' s deadly.

    [​IMG]

    Mamoswine
    completes the team!

    The Team
    Now, the movesets:

    [​IMG]

    Barbeque °° [​IMG]

    Trait: Flash Fire

    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

    - Sunny Day
    - Fire Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - SolarBeam



    In case of already explained movesets, or whose meaning has been understood from the description above, I won' t dwell much. Hidden Power Ice, along with the generous amount of EVs in speed, gives Heatran the ability to lure Gliscor,the removal of wich makes Jirachi and Breloom happy and free of spamming status. Thanks to Gliscor' s help Heatran also becomes an excellent sweeper, able to clean up entire teams by himself.

    [​IMG]


    BrainWashing °° [​IMG]

    Trait: Levitate

    EVs: 140 HP / 76 Def / 136 SAtk / 156 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)

    - Thunderbolt
    - Hydro Pump
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Rain Dance



    In this set Thunderbolt is preferred to Volt Switch because i don' t complete any turnfest and i sometimes just need to stay in tbolting. Rain Dance makes it, with Heatran, a true weather changer, able to surprise Sun team, my biggest gripe.

    The EVs in HP and Def give it the highest physical bulk possible, bulk needed for the massive amount of hits that this mon must absorb; the speed EVs ensure that Rotom-w will (in the majority of cases) outspeed the large portion of mons that run 244-245 Spd, and the Spatk is sufficient to 2HKO Tentacruel with Rain Dish even after a Protect.

    [​IMG]


    Murshroomer °°[​IMG]

    Trait: Poison Heal

    EVs: 236 HP / 36 Atk / 76 Def / 128 SDef / 32 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

    - Substitute
    - Leech Seed
    - Focus Punch
    - Spore



    The chosen moveset is the subseeder one, because it enables me to produce frequent subs, and, switching, helping the switchin containing the attack targeted at the mushroom.
    The Def investment ensures that Breloom won' t be 2HKOed by CBtar Stone Edge. The EVs in SDef provide Loom the special bulk needed to contain Rotom-w offensive. The Speed is a formal standard that I have chosen to ouspeed Ttar variants that add some EV speed for ouspeed Scizor who in turn invested some EV in speed because he has heard that goes out of style.

    [​IMG]


    SadClown °° [​IMG]

    Trait: Serene Grace

    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)

    - Fire Punch - Ice Punch
    - Iron Head
    - Trick


    When Novaray had proposed this set, I really wanted to try it out, and I could only with mamo (for Stealth Rock support), and Scarfrachi turns out to be a very unexpected and powerful pokèmon. First, Trick is a phenomenal move on Jirachi, because it cripples many mons that can be easly choice locked by Gliscor, and can be used for setup. An example is Rotom-w: in most teams Rotom-w is the only safe check to Gliscor, but with protect, I can either stall out Hydro Pumps PPs and, If i tries to predict and Volt Switch, I can setup on it. Then, in general, This thing can be called a bait for Gengar, that tries to disable Iron Head, but finds itself wrecked before it can sub, and for Dragons, that expect to outspeed rachi and Eq it, and get killed by Ice Punch.
    Seen that I never used Fire Punch, I was thinking if there was an alternative option, Ill test Thunder Punch and U-Turn.
    The previous set was:
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    CottonCandy °° [​IMG]

    Trait: Snow Cloak


    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)


    - Ice Shard
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Stealth Rock

    This thing is such a beast, thank you spuds4ever for the advice!
    Well, Life Orb is chosen because I often cannot send it in earlgame, and, when it comes, in midgame, EH broke its sash, making it useless. Life Orb, on the other hand, is very useful, because it grants mamo some important OHKOs.
    Furthermore, with a life orb equipped, mamoswine is an excellent choice for a recipient: during a test, I was losing 6-2 due to a nasty freeze when I bpassed a rock polish to this powerhouse, and won 0-2.
    This beast replaces:
    [​IMG]


    Vladimir °° [​IMG]

    Trait: Poison Heal

    EVs: 148 HP / 148 Def / 212 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)

    - Protect
    - Rock Polish
    - Earthquake
    - Baton Pass


    I thought that Gliscor could fit into the mechanism of mutual team support. Indeed, Every Pokè on this team is trying to offer something to his teammates, this thing being a Sunny Day, a Rain Dance, a Leech Seed, a Wish. And since everything Gliscor has to do is absorb physical attacks, meaning that its role in the team is not tied to a moveset, I have 4 moveslots to vacate the imagination: Polish passing, given the team' s slowness and bulkyness, led by STAB EQ and Protect, to heal the HP (which are a Poison Heal number) that Baton Pass doesn' t allow to recover, with a spread that allows him to outspeed max speed Heatran, and to take physical hits as well as possible, this set, i was saying, was my ride of fantasy. Not so illogical, because a +2 Heatran sweeping or a Loom quickstalling are really annoying.

    ETT:

    Barbeque (Heatran) (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Sunny Day
    - Fire Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - SolarBeam
    BrainWashing (Rotom-W) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 140 HP / 76 Def / 136 SAtk / 156 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hydro Pump
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Rain Dance
    Murshroomer (Breloom) (F) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 236 HP / 36 Atk / 76 Def / 128 SDef / 32 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - Leech Seed
    - Focus Punch
    - Spore
    SadClown (Jirachi) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Fire Punch
    - Ice Punch
    - Iron Head
    - Trick
    CottonCandy (Mamoswine) (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Snow Cloak
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Ice Shard
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Stealth Rock
    Vladimir (Gliscor) (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 148 HP / 148 Def / 212 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Protect
    - Rock Polish
    - Earthquake
    - Baton Pass


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I would like to thank you for reading (or trying to read I should say), and sorry for the ungrammatical English.
    Mamo>Haxo and Scarfrachi>Spdefensive one helped me with Dugtrio, and i can Ice Shard/Punch the other threats; I noticed that powerful water attacks (I am talking about Specstoed, for example) can be problematic, but I usually find a way to deal with them. Of course, if there is a way to mitigate that weakness, Ill be happy to listen suggestions and eventually edit the team.

  2. Smilodon

    Smilodon

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2012
    Messages:
    75
    I really like this team, and the analysis to explain the team building is interesting.
    I have tried it, it's fun to use, and quite efficient.
    The F/W/G core works really well. Being able to control weather is really good, as you say opponents often let Ninetails or Politoed dying as they don't see any weather inducer in this team. Tyranitar is often harder to kill, and can be a problem if he stays alive.

    I've often tried to use a baton pass gliscor outside of a baton pass team, and it works well here too. Havin two status absorber is really cool. You might try a little more offensive set : with about 80 EV attack, and ice fang instead of protect, he is able to 2KO offensive Dragonite (with multiscale), and is not a set-up fodder any more for many threats.

    Jirachi and Haxorus are usefull, but not as convincing as the others. You miss a powerfull set-upper to deal with hard stall teams. Maybe scarfmence with moxie, or DD dragonite instead of Haxorus ?
    I don't know if Jirachi has to be replaced. Maybe you could consider Foretress. You have no real weakness to SR, but spikes are really annoying.

    Anyway, original team, using it was a pleasure.
  3. Nova

    Nova Palisades
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    1,519
    Hi ArabianPhoenix

    Nice team you have here with plenty of creative sets! Now looking at your team closely, I can see Nasty Plot Celebi being a potential threat. Usually this type of Celebi runs Giga Drain, Earth Power, and then either HP Fire or HP Ice as the final coverage move. I think the HP Ice variants will be especially troubling as it will be able to hit every member of your team hard for Super Effective damage. If your opponent is running a more offensive build, they will be able to outspeed and OHKO Heatran with Earth Power and still be able to live Scarfed Haxorus’ Outrage. In order to remedy this weakness, I would suggest replacing Specially Defensive Jirachi with a Choice Scarfed version. This set would allow you to revenge kill a number of threats with Jirachi’s great coverage and also allows you to cripple set-up sweepers by tricking them your Choice Scarf. Also, Jirachi can abuse flinch hax with Iron Head+Serene Grace to take out Pokemon that it would normally be unable to. If you do decide to make this change, it could allow you to replace the Choice Scarf on Haxorus with a Choice Band to allow you to hit much harder.

    Now looking at the movesets on your current Pokemon, there are a few changes I would suggest. First I recommend Thunder over Thunderbolt on Rotom-W as you are using Rain Dance on him so you can afford to try to hit for even more power. Secondly, I would replace Substitute over Protect on Gliscor. Protect is useful in getting back more Poison Heal recovery and scouting Choiced moves but I think that is more effective on a Toxic Stall Gliscor. As your current Gliscor set is designed to pass on a Rock Polish to either Heatran or Breloom, passing along a Substitute is much more useful, protecting your Baton Pass switch-in from status and also basically guaranteeing a free switch. Finally, I would change Heatran’s item from Leftovers to a Life Orb. Life Orb provides a much needed damage boost and allows for a much higher chance of sweeping late game with Heatran after receiving a +2 speed boost.

    Hope I helped and good luck with your team!


    Set:

    Show Hide
    Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Iron Head
    - Fire Punch
    - Ice Punch
    - Trick



    tl;dr

    Show Hide
    Specially Defensive Jirachi ----> Choice Scarf Jirachi
    Thunderbolt on Rotom-W ----> Thunder
    Leftovers on Heatran ----> Life Orb
    Protect on Gliscor ----> Substitute
  4. ArabianPhoenix

    ArabianPhoenix

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2011
    Messages:
    6
    @Smilodon
    Thanks man ^^

    An offensive gliscor variant is an interesting option, but protect is too important for this set, because without it scor wuold not have the possibility to either baton pass and wall things. When gliscor risks to be set up fodder, I just baton pass out.

    @Novaray, scarfrachi could be very useful, but I don' t know who could place stealth rocks instead of rachi. Seen that haxorus has no longer utility, I' m trying to think of a good filler with stealth rock, but the only guy that comes to my mind is ttar, and adding a weather inducer in this team would be like drink soy milk and eat cheese :S
    For the others changes, Rotom-w often has to tbolt in the sun/sstorm/hail with weather inducer still alive, thunder would be much less versatile;
    I am gonna test sub>protect; Lefties on tran are more important than one could expect: I use them for simulate a sp.defensive set, baitkilling gliscors, as well as for add valuable recovery.

    Btw thank you guys for the rate :D
  5. ArabianPhoenix

    ArabianPhoenix

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2011
    Messages:
    6
    Well, I' ve tested sub on Gliscor, and sometimes it works wonderfully, but I often need protect, for scouting, choicelocking and hp recovery. While sub is a great move that allows the recipient to come in safely, it doesn' t allow to recover hp, an essential thing.
    And, i really want to test scarfarchi, but first i need a replacement for haxorus with access to stealth rock, and except for ttar, (and I cannot add it because it would ruin all the strategy) I have no idea. I was thinking to give the stealth to scarfrachi, in the place of fire punch (I don' t really need a fire move), could that work?
  6. ArabianPhoenix

    ArabianPhoenix

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2011
    Messages:
    6
  7. spuds4ever

    spuds4ever

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Messages:
    705
    I really like this team. Unorthodox and well thought-through fits my bill :3. Seeing as you're giving haxy the boot, why not replace him with mamoswine who is great at smashing a lot defensive cores and gets stealth rock too.
  8. ArabianPhoenix

    ArabianPhoenix

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2011
    Messages:
    6
    Yeah, Mamoswine is perfect :D thanks man! I' ll formally test it and edit the team, later.

    Edit: first post edited!

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