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Weatherless Unoriginal

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Squizzy, Dec 21, 2012.

  1. Squizzy


    Jan 15, 2011
    Sup'. It's my 2nd time making a team-thread on RMT. While my first try was a failure, i'd like to succeed with this one.

    Let's begin.

    Building Process

    Show Hide
    Well, the whole idea was starting by stallers. Actually, i don't like to play mainstream pokemons much; they are too predictable and not even interesting to fight against. I just started with one my favorite : Umbreon
    Well, now I got my special wall, i just have to get a good physical wall, and i chose Weezing.
    I'm just getting more and more excited by the way the team is going, I'm looking for a good special sweeper, and I really love Empoleon, so why not ?
    A not too mainstream and awesome physical sweeper ? Ursaring, here we go !
    I need a lead that can counters Stealth Rocks and other spikes, Aerodactyl seems perfect.
    To end this team, i needed some revenge killer, mostly special, so i just took Thundurus Therian
    Then i did some matches, and i failed them all, just can't succeed with this team, the main problem was the too low coverage plus the unexpected low damages, and Ursaring was the most awfull of them all. Fortunetly, i wasn't mistaken about my stallers, they work perfectly together. I decided to add Heracross, Slaking and Weavile, cause I have already played a lot Weavile and Slaking together, and it have worked pretty well.
    It was much better than before, but i found that i was lacking of special firepower, so i just changed my beloved penguin. :(
    That's my final team, and it is doing pretty good atm.
    Well, I really had hard times with my Slaking, who was really good, but Truant was really a pain to deal with, so I decided to get a better and much adapted scarfer to the meta : Garchomp.

    A In-Depth Look !

    Special Wall
    Umbreon @ Leftovers, (Synchronize)
    252 HP/252 SpD/6 Def
    Calm (+SpD/-Atk)
    -Heal Bell
    -Foul Play
    Well i'll start with the key of my team : Umbreon. Firstly, I just love this pokemon, because he looks kinda awesome, have really good stats, and is usefull, no matter what team he is in. I know many people just talking trash about him 'cause much better exists, but I think that nonetheless he is perfectly good as a Special Wall, and just make my fight much easier, one of my team problems was that status were super threating. I chose this Skillset cause I really needed to get ride of status changes, and to add some sustain to my team, Wish was a must-have. Foul Play is kinda awesome, and is really surprising for the enemy; who doesn't think that Umbreon has some quite a damage output. To end, protect is just good in as many situations as it has PP. Finally, i haven't just chose this pokemon because of his awesomness alone, i found that he just perfectly matches the stalling combo with Weezing.

    Physical Wall
    Weezing @ Black Sludge, (Levitate)
    252 Def/252 HP/6 SpA
    Bold (+Def/-Atk)
    -Clear Smog
    -Pain Split
    This pokemon is pretty good too as physical wall. With my old team (1 year or so ago), i really hated to play against him, a real pain in the ass. Then I thought, why should I use him ? Of course, cause he will be very hard to kill, but mainly cause he makes a perfect shield to all types with Umbreon, indeed, each one fills up each other weakness. With a good use of both, it makes this combo near unkillable, and super dangerous for every pokemon. This is kinda a classic movepool, Clear Smog to haze, Will-o-wisp in order to end every physical sweepers dream, Pain Split to just be a real pain the ass for even enemy's wall, and Sludge Bomb to have a poison attack in the pain, plus be able to do some damage. I think this movepool suits my playstyle, and is just awfull to play against.

    Special Sweeper
    Alakazam @ Life Orb, (Magic Guard)
    252 SpA/252 Spe/6 HP
    Timid (+Spe/-Atk)
    -Shadow Ball
    -Calm Mind
    -Focus Blast
    Well, I just can't comment too much this pokemon. He is a very good special sweeper, but i add him to my team without my consent. I just needed i great special firepower, and Empoleon was not enough, mainly cause pokemons with priority attack killing him too fast in SubAgiPetaya moveset. I chose Psychok over Psychic, cause its more rare, and more surprising, special wall getting fucked aswell. :D If i find something as powerfull as he is, with a greater moveset (Grass, Water, Electric ?), i'll replace him instantly. Actually, I'm trying to find a way to use Empoleon sucessfully instead of Alakazam, but it isn't working good for the moment.

    Weavile @ Focus Sash, (Pressure)
    252 Spe/252 Atk/6 Def
    Jolly (+Spe/-SpA)
    -Ice Shards
    -Night Slash
    -Fake Out
    It is really a lead that i have played a lot. He is just kinda unexpectable, and really usefull they way I use him. He sucessfully block every spikers, passer, whatever annoying. He makes quite good damages with Night Slash, and can be used as a little RK with Ice Shards. Fake Out is just here, cause it's nice to break people's focus sash or something other annoying. I think he suits perteculary well my team, indeed, he offers some damages and a priority attack, and he adds an ice attack that my team was missing. Actually, the main problem with him is the use I making of him; I always forgot that he isn't made to make sustained damages, and I often end up killing him when I could have already retreated, 'cause he has already done his job.

    Physical Choice Scarfer/RK
    Garchomp @ Choice Scarf (Rough Skin)
    252 Spe/252 Atk/6 HP
    Jolly (+Atk/-SpA)
    -Fire Fangs
    -Stealth Rock
    Slaking was really a pain to deal with, but when the enemy knows his moves, he is pretty easy to counter, plus Truant is really painful when I'm not OHKO when revenge killing. I know that switching on Weezing after Revenge kill was pretty nice 'cause of Combat Resistance, but I don't feel like keeping with it. I needed a great Scarfer, so I chose Garchomp, a pretty awesome pokemon that outspeed nearly the whole meta, plus with this moveset can hit it whole, with at least neutral damages. I took Fire Fangs over Dragon Claw, because I haven't any fire attacks in my team. The other moves are quite classic. I haven't tried him much yet, but it seems to doing well for the moment. I'll keep it like this.

    Physical Sweeper /Sword Dancer
    Heracross @ Leftovers (Guts)
    252 Spe/252 Atk/6 HP
    Jolly (+Spe/-SpA)
    -Close Combat
    -Stone Edge
    -Swords Dance
    Once again, i wanted an unusual pokemon, that can become fearful if well played. If they let me use just once Swords Dance, it means that i'll able to sweep at least half of theirs team. He just hits the whole meta with this moveset, and he actually hurts really bad ! He has a good type that makes my team even more hard to hit and predict switches. I rely on him very much, cause he makes a really good physical sweeper, and i'm able to win easily if enemy's team is weak. Also, he makes a good combination with my other pokemons.

    General opinion on my team

    I found it utterly awesome, and a bit original, unlike the name of this topic. I just don't like to play weather team, because being dependant of the weather is such a pain to play, plus there is like 1/3 of weather team in the whole bunch, so no thanks, no need to be more mainstream. It's my second team that I have really thought a lot about it in order to make it the best possible, but yet, i haven't the experience nor the knowledge that would allow me to make a perfect team using my favorite pokemon. I'm really enjoying it, and I think that i'm far from being able to use his whole potential, and that makes me wondering how can I improve it.

    Problems encountred

    Actually, the main problems were the mistakes I made like sacrificing uselessy some stallers or Weaver.
    The main threat for me is Flying Pokemon, I just can't find a way to beat them without losing too much in the trade, and the more I think, the more my headache hurts.
    I would like also to change my Alakazam for something more versatile but as powerfull as is Alakazam.
    Tornadus Spec Choices is really fucking annoying with Hurricane spam. :{
    I really love my stalling combo, but I find them too much defensive, when I see offensive Staller, it seems to be much more powerful. I also miss Stealth Rock or Rapid Spin, but I hope it'll do without them.

    Importable Version

    Show Hide
    Alakazam @ Life Orb
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Psyshock
    - Shadow Ball
    - Calm Mind
    - Focus Blast

    Heracross @ Leftovers
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Swords Dance
    - Megahorn
    - Stone Edge

    Weezing @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Levitate
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
    Bold Nature
    - Clear Smog
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Pain Split
    - Sludge Bomb

    Umbreon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Synchronize
    EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Def
    Calm Nature
    - Heal Bell
    - Wish
    - Foul Play
    - Protect

    Weavile @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 Spd / 6 SDef / 252 Atk
    Jolly Nature
    - Ice Shard
    - Night Slash
    - Taunt
    - Fake Out

    Garchomp (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Rough Skin
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Outrage
    - Stone Edge
    - Fire Fang


    Updates will be made in Red. Plus I'll add a list of updates here !
    -12/23/2012 : Change my Scarf Slaking for Scarf Garchomp, felt like I needed some dragon stab and Truant was kinda painful at the end of the game. Also add an Importatble version.

    Well, I thinks that's all for the moment, actually I can't make a serious Threat list because i haven't enough game experience, so i'll end it here.

    Thanks a lot for future advices or rating.

    See ya.

  2. clail


    Dec 19, 2012
    Interesting team!
    I like the def core of umbreon and weezing as they cover each others weaknesses very well.

    As I'm sure you know, your team currently has no stealth rocks.
    while not necessary, they greatly benefit your team by stripping many key pokemon of a decent chunk of health. Id suggest dropping slaking for a stealth rock setter and move the scarf to heracross. you could add empoleon back to your team, but as a support pokemon!
    he could have a specially defensive set composed of roar stealth rock ice beam and scald.
    you could even run rest since umbreon has heal bell

    Also your team is currently one pokemon away from uu. So you may want to drop alakazam for azelf and just play uu where the pokemon aren't quite as tough and there is no weather!
  3. Squizzy


    Jan 15, 2011
    Sup'. Thanks for the rate.
    I wish to stay in OU, as it's the most common meta, plus it's more interesting and trilling. Yeah, I'd like to get Stealth Rock, but I don't know what I should change. I'm really thinking a lot, however, I don't seem to find a decent solution between awesomness and efficiency.
    See ya.
  4. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Jun 11, 2011
    I hate to burst your bubble, but this team has fundamental flaws that prevent it from shining in OU. Most evident ones are complete inability to deal with Rain teams (you have no Water resistance, no Flying resistance, and while Umbreon has awesome special bulk, it's 2HKO'd by Specs / LO Hydro Pump from both Keldeo and Politoed (everything else is OHKO'd I guess, didn't run the calcs but should be pretty straightforward). Furthermore, you only have one Fire resistance, which is scarfed and doesn't have any recovery except Wish: this makes even Sun teams very problematic, and that's only emphasized when you realize that LO Venusaur 6-0 you easily (set up on Umbreon, 2HKO while regaining all of your health (roughly), then OHKO everything else with Giga Drain, or HP Fire in Weezing's case (Weavile can't do anything since Ice Shard barely 2HKOs and Venusaur wll be regaining health in the meantime; Fake Out deals a pittance anyway). Stealth Rocks are also mandatory, since they deal with a huge amount of problems by just being present (for example, you could mitigate your Volcarona weakness with those, since if Garchomp is gone, you're actually helpless against it after a Quiver Dance). I'd suggest either a more extensive period of playtesting onto Pokemon Showdown, to better realize what things are common threats in the current OU metagame, or you could sign up for the Battling 101 program, which will surely give you a better understanding about how to build a successful team in BW2 metagame.

    Sorry again if I sound too harsh. Good luck!
  5. Squizzy


    Jan 15, 2011

    I like your answer, but frankly speaking, I think I'll stick up with this team, and i'll try to improve it. You are right for quite everything, i have 99 problems including Rain Teams, but Sun teams ain't one; and Venusaur is like OHKO by my Alakazam, 2HKO by Weaver, 2HKO by Garchomp, it's more than enough I think.). Politoed is indeed a problem each time I face him, somehow I'm killing him with not too much losses, but it must be 'cause of he didn't play well. I'm actually thinking that the best way countering Kaldeo and Politoed must be Jellicent.

    Thanks for the Battling 101 program, but I think as I live in Europe, it will be problematic to get a good schedule, plus I won't have much time, so I think it's not a good idea.

    I will improve this team to the best, and that doesn't exclude fundamental changes, it's not like i'm not on poke showdown :D.

    Thanks for the rate :).

    See ya.
  6. alamaster

    alamaster hello
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    Dec 22, 2004
    Hey there, cool team, always nice to see originality! If you're looking to improve this team without making any pokemon changes, here are some things I would suggest:

    • On Weezing, change Sludge Bomb to either Fire Blast or Thunderbolt. This will let you hit Skarmory and other Steel types if you use Fire Blast, or Water/Flying types if you use Thunderbolt.
    • I know Garchomp has a Choice Scarf, but you can still give it Stealth Rock over Stone Edge. Edge doesn't really offer you much coverage since Outrage/Earthquake/Fire Fang hits everything for at least neutral damage. Garchomp forces a lot of switches so I don't think you'll have a problem setting it up.
    • If you add Focus Sash onto Alakazam over Life Orb, you can survive anything thanks to Magic Guard, giving you a great last resort for many threats, including stuff like Tornadus-T (Psyshock won't KO though, so watch out for that). It also helps you against Scarf Keldeo, who eats this team alive.

    That's all the changes I'd make to your team without changing pokemon. If you want to make a more competitive team, take ganj4lF's advice, there's tutors with all sorts of timezones and schedules so I'm sure there's one that could work for you. Anyway, best of luck with the team, happy battling!
  7. Squizzy


    Jan 15, 2011
    Hey !

    Thanks for your rating. I approve your suggestions except for the Focus Sash and Alakazam, I really prefer him as a Life Orber, cause i'll like i'll lose a lot of firepower, and Magic Guard won't be used to its full potential :(

    See ya ยง
  8. TooMuchSugar


    Oct 19, 2012
    Well, if you want a special attacker to replace Alakazam, RP Landorus might be a good idea. He definitely has better coverage, and can take a hit better (not that he's particularly bulky, just not as frail as Alakazam). However, this would give you two 4x weaknesses to ice on your team and no resists. You could think about it anyway.
    Also, you have nothing that can switch in on boosted dragons. You might want to find room for a steel type in here somewhere to help with that (I like SpDef Jirachi, but that would probably replace Umbreon, who is the reason you made the team in the first place).
  9. Sunleth


    Sep 10, 2010
    The threat from Venusaur lies with Chlorophyll under Sun, which means Venusaur's speed will double. This makes your 1-2HKOs not very helpful as Venusaur will just outspeed and KO your possible "solutions" to it. Furthermore, a boosted Giga Drain, which allows it to recover HP with every hit, will make it impossible to whittle Venusaur's HP down using multiple "revenge killers".

    I'd agree with the other suggestions about fitting a Steel-type in here somewhere, as it'd help you with your problem with Venusaur and Sun teams in general, as well as give your team a much-needed Dragon resist.

    Specially Defensive Heatran instead of Umbreon would give you an almost sure-fire Venusaur counter as it takes negligible damage from Giga Drain and is immune to Hidden Power Fire and Sludge Bomb, the two other standard attacks. This Heatran would also give you a nice switch-in on the odd Draco Meteor from specially-based Dragons like Lati@s and Kyurem.

    Here's a link to the aforementioned Heatran set.

    Edit: I realised that replacing Umbreon replaces your original defensive core, but then again this fundamental change helps you with many problems such as the lack of a Stealth Rock user (or a phazer) and also gives you a Flying resist, which you mentioned is one of your major problems. Lastly, it definitely provides more firepower (no pun intended) compared to Umbreon, as it acts as a defensive Pokemon which also has offensive presence, which you mentioned that you need.

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