Weavile (Ubers analysis)

Just a nitpick:

Mewtwo can be dealt with by a Scarfer with access to strong physical attacks or Punishment, such as Garchomp or Ho-Oh. Surprisingly enough, a Scarfed Ho-Oh deals with almost all the Pokemon that give Weavile trouble, but should you choose to use it, you will need to employ a Forretress (who can also help Weavile with its Rapid Spin).
Ho-Oh is the correct spelling and I ended up catching an error too. :P

EDIT: You also have to fix this with your Ubers Ninjask and Shiftry analyses.
 
All right, I've went through and looked over everything, changing it where necessary, and will submit the analysis to the mods this weekend after final reviews. It's been so long, that common metagame sets, such as those on Giratina-O, have changed, so I've edited that accordingly.
 

Theorymon

Have a wonderful day, wahoo!
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Moderator
Alright there is one huge change that needs to be made... the first set needs to have Life Orb and Expert Belt over Choice Band. me and reachzero discussed this a while ago, and well, Weavile prefers not being locked into a move in Ubers. I will include damage calcs later.

P.S.: Low Kick shouldn't be slashed in on the SDer, its too good for that! +2 Low Kick actually OHKOs Palkia, and has a 92.3% chance to OHKO max HP Kyogre after SR! If anything, it should be Night Slash / Ice Punch in the last slot.
 
First change is done.

Second change: The thing is, I'm reluctant to remove Night Slash, because it's needed to deal with dudes such as Lugia, Giratina, and Wobbuffet, not to mention surprising Mewtwo switch-ins. How about I do this: remove the slash from Low Kick, and mention in set comments that Ice Punch is an option to deal with Groudon?
 

Xia

On porpoise
is a Contributor Alumnus
Going to get a start on this tonight and finish it tomorrow.
<p>Weavile’s physical Ice- and Dark-type STAB moves, combined with its access to Ice Shard and Pursuit, make it an excellent revenge killer and trapper in the Ubers tier, which is filled with Dragon- and Psychic-types. Weavile is not only insurance against top threats such as Rayquaza, Garchomp, and Latios; it can also create sweeping opportunities by using Pursuit or Night Slash to clear out defensively-oriented Pokemon such as Latias and Blissey, opening the door for Pokemon like Kyogre.</p>

<p>Ice Shard and Night Slash are givens for the purpose of scoring OHKOs on threats such as Dragon Dance Rayquaza, Choice Scarf Garchomp, Latios, Latias, Shaymin-S, and Wobbuffet (with minor prior damage). The final moves are up to what Weavile needs to fulfill its role on individual teams. Low Kick gives you coverage against Dialga and Darkrai, while Pursuit can be useful against Latias, Latios, and Blissey, opening up a possible sweep if your prediction is correct. With Tickle and Encore support from Wobbuffet, you can even break through Lugia fairly easily. A lesser used but still viable option is Punishment, which can be handy against bulkier Calm Mind users such as Kyogre, Giratina, and Giratina-O. Ice Punch can surprise and 2HKO an incoming Groudon, which can allow a Dragon Dance Rayquaza to sweep with its counter removed.</p>

<p>The EVs on this set maximize Speed for the purpose of forcing a Speed tie with a positive-natured Darkrai, should the situation arise. The use of an Adamant nature does not guarantee any OHKOs that a Jolly nature doesn’t, so changing the nature is not recommended. Although Choice Band may seem like a good item at first, Weavile hates being locked into one attack [cleaned up sentence to avoid colon use and help flow].</p>

<p>The first thing to note with this set is that it can be dead weight against Ubers stall teams. Forretress and Skarmory enjoy setting up entry hazards and using Rapid Spin (in the case of the former [you listed Forretress first]) against Weavile. Therefore, it is important to carry stall-breaking Pokemon on your team. Darkrai and Rayquaza have the potential to break through a stall team or at least cause serious damage, which the rest of your team can then exploit. Mewtwo, with its access to Taunt, Substitute, and Calm Mind, can do the same, while Dialga and Palkia can run mixed sets to great effect. You will also need a method to defeat Kyogre, Mewtwo, and to a lesser extent Manaphy, who can take a hit from Weavile and defeat it fairly easily. A Choice Specs Palkia can handle Kyogre (barring Calm Mind variants) and Manaphy. A Calm Mind Kyogre of your own can handle Mewtwo fairly easily, but watch out for Thunder. Choice Scarf users such as Palkia and Dialga are also useful against Mewtwo, as is the faster Deoxys-A. Blissey is not recommended as a Mewtwo counter because of her [always female] meager offensive presence.</p>

<p>Although it resides in OU, Scizor is easily the best counter to this set, because it can threaten Weavile with a Bullet Punch or U-turn, while taking little in return. Fortunately, Groudon and Dialga handily defeat it. Watch out for repeated U-turns, though, which can really put a damper on your efforts to maintain offensive momentum. Against a skilled [although I like adroit, few people reading this will know what it means] Scizor user, the Weavile player will need to employ aggressive prediction and use double switching to ensure that he comes out on top.</p>

I'll post again tomorrow with the rest.
 

Xia

On porpoise
is a Contributor Alumnus
And just so you know, eric the espeion is working on making sure all sets online do not allocate the extra two EVs into extra stats, meaning the spreads should never have a value of six (simply replace them with four).
<p>Swords Dance Weavile in Ubers is no joke, striking many of the Dragon- and Psychic-types with boosted Ice Shards or Night Slashes at their relatively weaker Defense stat. The problem here is that Weavile finds it difficult to set up a Swords Dance on many Pokemon in the Ubers metagame, as a smart player will attack you rather than switch, ending your sweeping aspirations. However, Encore support from Wobbuffet can make it easy to find an opportunity to boost your attack and proceed to sweep in ways that Lucario or Rayquaza can't manage.</p>

<p>The first three moves on this set are givens. Ice Shard is a necessity to avoid taking an Extremespeed from the likes of Rayquaza. Night Slash is your primary move, with the horrific attacking power OHKOing Lugia and even striking fear into Giratina, who is OHKOed over half the time with Stealth Rock, one layer of Spikes, and a Life Orb. The final slot is up for debate: Low Kick lets you OHKO Dialga, while Ice Punch lets you OHKO Groudon. The EVs are relatively intuitive for a sweeper, but it's worth noting that using an Adamant nature is inadvisable, as you will lose the Speed tie with Darkrai, who cannot be OHKOed by Ice Shard. Additionally, using an Adamant nature doesn't give you any OHKOes that a Jolly misses out on, except that it can give you a better chance of beating Giratina and Dialga. The choice of an item is up to your playstyle. A Life Orb gives you the raw power necessary to defeat walls such as Lugia, Giratina, and Dialga, while dealing more damage to threats such as Kyogre and Palkia, should you have to face them. An Expert Belt ensures that HP loss is minimized, and can also be used to bluff a Choice item, perhaps making it easier to set up on or defeat various threats.</p>

<p>When using this set, you should focus on its advantages over its rival Swords Dancers, Rayquaza and Lucario. The main gift that Weavile has is that it can outpace and OHKO Lugia without locking itself into Outrage (which Dragon Dance Rayquaza variants suffer with). Also, it can fairly easily deal with Latios and Latias, who often give Swords Dance Rayquaza variants some trouble. The main disadvantage Weavile has is that it is frail, and has very few resistances or immunities which it can exploit to find time to Swords Dance. Because of this, Wobbuffet support is a necessity, as is a Stealth Rock user, whose combined aid can ensure many OHKOs. Other than that, the partners of this set generally mirror the partners of Choice Band Weavile.</p>



<p>Stealth Rock and Spikes give Weavile quite a bit of aid, granting it crucial OHKOs on threats such as Lugia and Giratina when employing the Swords Dancer set, along with helping wear down the foe into the KO range of attacks from your other Pokemon. Since Weavile is a very offensive Pokemon, Spikers such as Skarmory and Forretress may not work alongside it (although Forretress's Rapid Spin can be useful), so you are almost obligated to employ Deoxys-S for such a role. Whether you choose to employ a Giratina-O to protect your entry hazards is your prerogative, but it may help, as Giratina-O can be useful as a stallbreaker as long as you have tools to get past Forretress. Weather is often a big deal in Ubers, but Weavile really doesn't mind it, as it is neither helped nor hindered by the sun and the rain. If you choose to use the Swords Dancer set, Wobbuffet is almost a necessity, as without it you may never actually use Swords Dance unless a switch is predicted.</p>

<p>Weavile tends to suffer against Pokemon such as Skarmory, Forretress, Scizor, and Mewtwo (who OHKOes with Aura Sphere if it avoids the Night Slash). Mewtwo can be dealt with by a Scarfer with access to strong physical attacks or Punishment, such as Garchomp or Ho-oh. Surprisingly enough, a Scarfed Ho-Oh deals with almost all the Pokemon that give Weavile trouble, but should you choose to use it, you will need to employ a Forretress (who can also help Weavile with its Rapid Spin). Otherwise, you can simply use a Kyogre to deal with the Steel-types and a Scarfer of your choice to defeat Mewtwo.</p>

<p>Since Skarmory is rarely seen, the Pokemon of most concern to Weavile are Scizor, Forretress, and Mewtwo. Both Scizor and Mewtwo are often partnered with Kyogre, Palkia, and Darkrai, so you should consider using a Choice Scarf Palkia of your own to deal with these threats, knowing that an opposing Palkia may force you to engage in extensive, often risky, prediction. Forretress, on the other hand, is often seen alongside Groudon and Giratina-O, so you should consider using a Kyogre (of whatever set you choose) to deal with these threats. Giratina-O is often defeated by Weavile anyways, provided you can enter the field unharmed and the lizard does not have a Substitute up.</p>

<p>Weavile is rarely seen on defensive teams, for good reason, as another Choice Scarf user (Dialga is a popular choice) often fulfills the necessary roles instead. Instead, Weavile fulfills a niche role on offensive teams, checking threats such as Rayquaza, Latios, Latias, and Shaymin-S, and luring in other threats such as Groudon. The sweeper, if set up properly, has frightening potential, but if your setup is interrupted (by, for example, Wobbuffet being killed before it can Encore), then you may be in trouble. For whatever Weavile set you use, you will need to possess good prediction skills to ensure that you come out on top against users such as Scizor and Mewtwo. You may find yourself having to make risky double switches as a result of this, so be prepared.</p>


<p>Very little that has not already been listed is viable on Weavile. It has some interesting options such as Fake Out, Counter, and Taunt, but its true role is either insurance against various threats in the metagame (the Choice Bander) or as a potential sweeper (the Swords Dancer), and the moves should be chosen to reflect these roles.</p>


Remove the apostrophe from the title; having that in will make it display wierd on-site
<p>The only viable spread for Weavile is 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe and Jolly, to ensure the speed tie with Darkrai, should the situation arise. Weavile isn't bulky enough to take even neutral hits, and so EVing the defenses would be wasteful, as would spending points in Weavile's pathetic Special Attack. Also, since Adamant guarantees no crucial KOs over Jolly, using the Attack-boosting nature is inadvisable.</p>


<p>Faster Scarfers, such as Kyogre and Palkia, are excellent ways of dealing with Weavile, easily taking its attacks and OHKOing in return. Dialga works well here too, but must avoid the Low Kick from the Choice Bander.</p>


EDIT: Sorr about the double post, but it was much easier than editing and quoting the entire OP again. Feel free to merge the two posts if it's a big deal.
 
Xia, you're a god.

All right, I've edited the first set with your edits and made some changes of my own to reflect that we're no longer using a Choice Band.

To the mods: if you want, you can set a 24 hour deadline for additional edits to this. I'm pretty much done here. Thanks to everyone for their help.
 

macle

sup geodudes
is a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Status: Ready to Upload


DPP Weavile (Ubers)
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/weavile

[SET]
name: Ubers Revenge Killer
move 1: Ice Shard
move 2: Night Slash
move 3: Low Kick
move 4: Pursuit / Ice Punch
item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Weavile’s physical Ice- and Dark-type STAB moves, combined with its access to Ice Shard and Pursuit, make it an excellent revenge killer and trapper in the Ubers tier, which is filled with Dragon- and Psychic-types. Weavile is not only insurance against top threats such as Rayquaza, Garchomp, and Latios; it can also create sweeping opportunities by using Pursuit or Night Slash to clear out defensively-oriented Pokemon such as Latias and Blissey, opening the door for Pokemon like Kyogre.</p>

<p>Ice Shard and Night Slash are givens for the purpose of scoring OHKOs on threats such as Dragon Dance Rayquaza, Choice Scarf Garchomp, Latios, Latias, Shaymin-S, and Wobbuffet (with minor prior damage). Low Kick is an excellent move to deal with Kyogre, Darkrai, and Dialga. The final move depends on the needs of the team that Weavile is operating on. Pursuit can be useful against Latias, Latios, and Blissey, opening up a possible sweep if your prediction is correct. With Tickle and Encore support from Wobbuffet, you can even break through Lugia fairly easily. A lesser used but still viable option is Punishment, which can be handy against bulkier Calm Mind users such as Kyogre, Giratina, and Giratina-O. Ice Punch can surprise and 2HKO an incoming Groudon, which can allow a Pokemon such as Dragon Dance Rayquaza to sweep with its counter removed.</p>

<p>The EVs on this set maximize Speed for the purpose of forcing a Speed tie with a positive-natured Darkrai, should the situation arise. The use of an Adamant nature does not guarantee any OHKOs that a Jolly nature doesn’t, so it is inadvisable. The reason is that this set doesn't use a Choice Band is that Weavile despises being locked into one attack, because it may be frequently switching. The Life Orb is the recommended item on this set, because Weavile isn't bulky enough to be taking hits anyways. However, an Expert Belt is viable for the purpose of bluffing a Choice Band and avoiding HP loss.</p>

<p>The first thing to note with this set is that it can be dead weight against Ubers stall teams. Forretress and Skarmory enjoy setting up entry hazards and using Rapid Spin (in the case of the former) against Weavile. Therefore, it is important to carry stall-breaking Pokemon on your team. Darkrai and Rayquaza have the potential to break through a stall team or at least cause serious damage, which the rest of your team can then exploit. Mewtwo, with its access to Taunt, Substitute, and Calm Mind, can do the same, while Dialga and Palkia can run mixed sets to great effect. You will also need a method to defeat Kyogre, Mewtwo, and to a lesser extent Manaphy, who can take a hit from Weavile and defeat it fairly easily. A Choice Specs Palkia can handle Kyogre (barring a Calm Mind variant) and Manaphy. A Calm Mind Kyogre can handle Mewtwo fairly easily, but watch out for sets with Thunder (usually Life Orb users). Choice Scarf users such as Palkia and Dialga are also useful against Mewtwo, as is the faster Deoxys-A. Blissey is not recommended as a Mewtwo counter because of her meager offensive presence.</p>

<p>And although it resides in OU, Scizor is easily the best counter to this set, because it can threaten Weavile with a Bullet Punch or U-turn, while Weavile does little to it in return. Fortunately, Groudon and Dialga handily defeat it. Watch out for repeated U-turns, though, which can really put a damper on your efforts to maintain offensive momentum. Against a skilled Scizor user, the Weavile player will need to employ aggressive prediction and use double switching to ensure that he comes out on top.</p>


[SET]
name: Ubers Swords Dancer
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Ice Shard
move 3: Low Kick
move 4: Night Slash
item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Swords Dance Weavile in Ubers is no joke, striking many of the Dragon- and Psychic-types with boosted Ice Shards or Night Slashes at their weaker Defense stats. The problem here is that Weavile finds it difficult to set up a Swords Dance on many Pokemon in the Ubers metagame, as a smart player will attack you rather than switch, ending your sweeping aspirations. However, Encore support from Wobbuffet can make it easy to find an opportunity to boost your attack and proceed to sweep in ways that Lucario or Rayquaza can't manage.</p>

<p>The listed moves are the set's best choices. Night Slash is your primary move, with the horrific attacking power OHKOing Lugia and even striking fear into Giratina, who is OHKOed over half the time with Stealth Rock, one layer of Spikes, and a Life Orb. Ice Shard is a necessity to hit Shaymin-S and Rayquaza (who often carries ExtremeSpeed). Low Kick strikes many Ubers with base 120 power, landing OHKOs on Dialga, Palkia, Darkrai, and Kyogre. It should be noted that Ice Punch is an option over any of the moves if you need to OHKO Groudon. The EVs are relatively intuitive for a sweeper, but it's worth noting that using an Adamant nature is inadvisable, as you will lose the Speed tie with Darkrai, who cannot be OHKOed by Ice Shard. Additionally, using an Adamant nature doesn't give you any OHKOes that a Jolly misses out on, except that it can give you a better chance of beating Giratina and Dialga. The choice of an item is up to your playstyle. A Life Orb gives you the raw power necessary to OHKO walls such as Lugia, Giratina, and Dialga, while dealing more damage to threats such as Kyogre and Palkia, should you have to face them. An Expert Belt ensures that HP loss is minimized, and can also be used to bluff a Choice Band, perhaps making it easier to set up on or defeat various threats.</p>

<p>When using this set, you should focus on its advantages over its rival Swords Dancers, Rayquaza and Lucario. The main gift that Weavile has is that it can outpace and OHKO Lugia without locking itself into Outrage (which Dragon Dance Rayquaza variants suffer with). Also, it can fairly easily deal with Latios and Latias, who often give Swords Dance Rayquaza variants some trouble. The main disadvantage Weavile has is that it is frail, and has very few resistances or immunities which it can exploit to find time to Swords Dance. Because of this, Wobbuffet support is a necessity, as is a Stealth Rock user, whose combined aid can ensure many OHKOes. Other than that, the partners of this set generally mirror the partners of the first set.</p>


[Team Options]
<p>Stealth Rock and Spikes give Weavile quite a bit of aid, granting it crucial OHKOs on threats such as Lugia and Giratina when employing the Swords Dancer set, along with helping wear down the foe into the KO range of attacks from your other Pokemon. Since Weavile is a very offensive Pokemon, Spikers such as Skarmory and Forretress may not work alongside it (although Forretress's Rapid Spin can be useful), so you are almost obligated to employ Deoxys-S for such a role. Whether you choose to employ a Giratina-O to protect your entry hazards is your prerogative, but it may help, as Giratina-O can be useful as a stall breaker as long as you have tools to get past Forretress. Weather is often a big deal in Ubers, but Weavile really doesn't mind it, as it is neither helped nor hindered by the sun and the rain. If you choose to use the Swords Dancer, Wobbuffet is almost a necessity, as without it you may never actually use Swords Dance unless a switch is predicted.</p>

<p>Weavile tends to suffer against Pokemon such as Skarmory, Forretress, Scizor, and Mewtwo (who OHKOes with Aura Sphere if it avoids the Night Slash). Mewtwo can be dealt with by a Scarfer with access to strong physical attacks or Punishment, such as Garchomp or Ho-oh. Surprisingly enough, a Scarfed Ho-Oh deals with almost all the Pokemon that give Weavile trouble, but should you choose to use it, you will need to employ a Forretress (who can also help Weavile with its Rapid Spin). Otherwise, you can simply use a Kyogre to deal with the Steel-types and a Choice Scarf user of your choice to defeat Mewtwo.</p>

<p>Weavile's defensive presence is nonexistent, since it possesses abysmal defenses and a weakness to Stealth Rock, and Ubers Pokemon usually choose not to employ Psychic-type attacks. Therefore, it would be useless to discuss Weavile's defensive synergy with the its potential teammates.</p>

<p>Since Skarmory is rarely seen, the Pokemon of most concern to Weavile are Scizor, Forretress, and Mewtwo. Both Scizor and Mewtwo are often partnered with Kyogre, Palkia, and Darkrai, so you should consider using a Choice Scarf Palkia of your own to deal with these threats, knowing that an opposing Palkia may force you to engage in extensive, often risky, prediction. Forretress, on the other hand, is often seen alongside Groudon and Giratina-O, so you should consider using a Kyogre (of whatever set you choose) to deal with these threats. Giratina-O is often defeated by Weavile anyways, provided you can enter the field unharmed and the lizard does not have a Substitute up.</p>

<p>Weavile is rarely seen on defensive teams, for good reason, as another Choice Scarf user, (Dialga is a popular choice) often fulfills the necessary roles instead. Instead, Weavile fulfills a niche role on offensive teams, checking threats such as Rayquaza, Latios, Latias, and Shaymin-S, and luring in other threats such as Groudon. The sweeper, if set up properly, has frightening potential, but if your setup is interrupted (by, for example, Wobbuffet being killed before it can Encore), then you may be in trouble. For whatever Weavile set you use, you will need to possess good prediction skills to ensure that you come out on top against users such as Scizor and Mewtwo. You may find yourself having to make risky double switches as a result of this, so be prepared.</p>

[Other Options]
<p>Very little that has not already been listed is viable on Weavile. It has some interesting options such as Fake Out, Counter, and Taunt, but its true role is either insurance against various threats in the metagame (the Revenge Killer) or as a potential sweeper (the Swords Dancer), and the moves should be chosen to reflect these roles. A Choice Band is viable, but not recommended, as it forces Weavile to switch more frequently, and Weavile suffers from residual damage.</p>

[EVs]
<p>The only viable spread for Weavile is 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe and Jolly, to ensure the speed tie with Darkrai should the situation arise. Weavile isn't bulky enough to take even neutral hits, and so EVing the defenses would be wasteful, as would spending points in Weavile's pathetic Special Attack. Also, since Adamant guarantees no crucial KOs over Jolly, using the Attack-boosting nature is inadvisable.</p>

[Opinion]
<p>Weavile is probably not as good a sweeper as the standards Rayquaza and Lucario, but it is definitely a solid choice for offensive teams. It's ability to OHKO Lugia in one turn of setup without being killed (Rayquaza cannot do this without Outrage, opening it up for revenge killing), and the fact that it is unfazed by Latios and Latias, make it an excellent Pokemon in its own right. The insurance that Weavile provides against the metagame's top threats, combined with the interesting possibilities of luring in Groudon with Ice Punch and pseudo-trapping Blissey and Lugia with Pursuit, give Weavile a lot of options with which to wreak havoc in Ubers. Just don't overestimate Weavile's power, give it the support it needs, and it will serve you well.</p>

[Counters]
<p>Scizor is a perfect counter to Weavile, and can easily take its attacks and OHKO with Bullet Punch or U-turn, the latter of which can return control of the battle to the Scizor user.</p>

<p>As long as Mewtwo avoids entering on a Night Slash, it can easily outspeed and OHKO Weavile with Aura Sphere. A Swords Danced Life Orb-boosted Ice Shard doesn't even approach a OHKO.</p>

<p>Faster Choice Scarf users, such as Kyogre and Palkia, are excellent ways of dealing with Weavile, easily taking its attacks and OHKOing in return. Dialga works well here too, but must avoid the Low Kick from the Choice Band user.</p>

<p>Finally, Skarmory and Forretress easily set up entry hazards on Weavile, but Forretress has to watch out for the Swords Dancer unless the bug is using Gyro Ball as an attack.</p>
still needs to the new updates
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top