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OU Weavile

Discussion in 'Preliminary Pokedex' started by TRC, Dec 16, 2013.

  1. TRC

    TRC EVERYONE PLAY PU
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    Overview
    ########
    Weavile is, for the most part, a forgotten offensive threat. However, it actually functions very well in the Overused metagame due to its high Attack stat and immense base 125 Speed, the latter of which allows it to outspeed the majority of the unboosted metagame. In addition, its typing gives it great dual STAB coverage. Weavile also has great utility, as it can revenge kill a multitude of threats with its high Speed and Ice Shard as well as cripple defensive Pokemon with Knock Off. While Weavile has great offensive potential, it also has virtually nonexistent bulk, taking even neutral hits badly. Its typing gives it an unfortunate weakness to Stealth Rock, a 4x weakness to the common Fighting-type moves, and weaknesses to two common priority moves: Bullet Punch and Mach Punch. Nevertheless, Weavile can provide great support as a revenge killer and a Knock Off user, so it is definitely a threat to look out for in Overused.

    Life Orb
    ########
    name: Life Orb
    move 1: Knock Off
    move 2: Ice Shard
    move 3: Ice Punch
    move 4: Low Kick
    ability: Pressure
    item: Life Orb
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    nature: Jolly

    Moves
    ========
    Weavile has everything it needs to perform its role effectively. Knock Off is a powerful STAB move that Weavile utilizes to great success; it can do hefty damage to most threats while also removing their items. Ice Shard allows Weavile to revenge kill many threats, such as Garchomp, Landorus-T, and Noivern, as well as faster threats such as Choice Scarf Salamence and Venusaur in sun. As a secondary STAB move, Ice Punch is used to take out Gliscor, Hippowdon, Togekiss, and Mandibuzz. Low Kick rounds off Weavile's coverage as its best option against Heatran, Ferrothorn, Tyranitar, and Terrakion; it also deals reasonably well with other Steel-types. Pursuit is an excellent alternative option as it allows Weavile to weaken or eliminate many Psychic- and Ghost-type Pokemon, such as Gengar, Latios, Celebi, and Starmie.

    Set Details
    ========
    Life Orb is the standard item for a frail sweeper, combining power with the ability to switch moves. The EVs give Weavile the most power and Speed it can have, and the Jolly nature allows Weavile to outspeed Timid Starmie, Timid Latios, and Timid Gengar.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    Weavile primarily plays as a hit-and-run attacker, as it has high offensive stats but often can't stay in for long because of its frailty. In general, Weavile's main role is revenge kill threats to the whole team, which it does effectively. Switch it in on a Pokemon that bothers your team but is weak to one of Weavile's moves, such as Latios, and simply use the appropriate move, which is Knock Off in this case. There is no need to worry about mispredicting with Knock Off because any Pokemon that the opponent switches in will have its item removed. Between its high Speed and access to Ice Shard, Weavile is excellent at checking threats holdingh a Choice Scarf as well; it is especially good at checking Pokemon 4x weak to Ice, such as Salamence, Garchomp, and Landorus-T. Weavile's main STAB move is often powerful enough to revenge weakened neutral threats, but you can also try and predict the switch-in by using a move more suited to taking down that Pokemon instead.. When a Pokemon that threatens Weavile comes in, simply switch out and come in again later when needed.

    Team Options
    ========
    Because of Weavile's ability to easily eliminate Psychic- and Ghost-type Pokemon, good teammates are Pokemon that can benefit from having Psychic- and Ghost-type Pokemon gone. Terrakion, Thundurus-T, and Starmie all appreciate these Pokemon removed. It is almost mandatory to have Rapid Spin support to manage Weavile's Stealth Rock weakness, so Tentacruel and Starmie are good partners. Tentacruel in particular has great defensive synergy with Weavile, as Tentacruel can take the Fighting- and Fire-type attacks aimed at Weavile and Weavile can eliminate the Ground- and Grass-type Pokemon that give Tentacruel trouble. Anything that appreciates Knock Off and Ice Shard support makes a good partner; Keldeo appreciates Weavile's ability to remove Celebi, Jellicent, and Latios, and Keldeo can also eliminate some of Weavile's counters, such as Skarmory and Forretress. A lot of the aforementioned Pokemon also really love Pursuit support, if Weavile happens to be using the move.

    Other Options
    ########
    Weavile can run a Swords Dance set to boost its Attack to great levels, setting up when it forces something out, but this strategy is very risky due to Weavile's frailty and it relies heavily on prediction. Choice Band can enable Weavile to hit with more power, especially with Pursuit if the opponent tries to stay in, but it makes Weavile very easy to play around. Weavile can learn Icicle Crash, which is more powerful than Ice Punch, but it is illegal with Low Kick, which is an essential move. Finally, Weavile can run a gimmicky Focus Sash + Fake Out + Counter set, but dedicated leads are uncommon and this set doesn't really take advantage of Weavile's defining qualities, so it is generally inferior.

    Checks & Counters
    ########
    **Mach Punch**: Mach Punch users that don't take much from Ice Shard can easily KO Weavile due to its 4x weakness to Fighting. This includes Conkeldurr and Infernape; Infernape in particular resists Ice Shard. A healthy Breloom can check Weavile with Mach Punch, but as it takes around 80% damage from Ice Shard, it is a shaky check at best.

    **Choice Scarf Users**: Choice Scarf users that can outspeed and KO Weavile while also taking little damage from Ice Shard, such as Terrakion, Keldeo, and Magneton are very effective checks.

    **Offensive Threats**: Pokemon that can take all of Weavile's moves and KO back or use it as setup bait are good counters. This includes Infernape and Conkeldurr due to Mach Punch and Fighting STAB, Azumarill due to Play Rough, and Gyarados, which can set up Substitute and Dragon Dances against Weavile.

    **Defensive Threats**: Many bulky Steel-types, such as Skarmory and Forretress, can wall Weavile. In addition to that, many Pokemon with reasonable bulk can capitalize on Weavile's relatively low-powered moves. Examples include Chansey, Keldeo, Vaporeon, and Rotom-W. Tangrowth and Hippowdon can check variants without the very uncommon Icicle Crash. Politoed, Tentacruel, and Avalugg also shrug off Weavile's moves; the first two can KO Weavile with rain-boosted attacks, while the third can retaliate with Gyro Ball or simply Recover off the damage. There are many defensive threats that Weavile just cannot break through.

    **Stealth Rock**: As Weavile is weak to Stealth Rock and also takes Life Orb damage, it can be worn down very quickly. Anything that can set up Stealth Rock can seriously damage Weavile's ability to do its job effectively. This includes Forretress, Excadrill, and Terrakion.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 25, 2014
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  2. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Replace Night Slash with Knock Off and Brick Break with Low Kick.
  3. TRC

    TRC EVERYONE PLAY PU
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    Done. What significant threats can Weavile OHKO / 2HKO with Low Kick that it can't with Brick Break?
  4. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Tyranitar, Ferrothorn, Terrakion, and Heatran, to name a few.
  5. TRC

    TRC EVERYONE PLAY PU
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    Thank you. I couldn't choose between them originally.
  6. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    Knock Off and Icicle Crash are illegal. So you will have to slash in Night Slash if the player opts to using Icicle Crash. Or just use Ice Punch.
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  7. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    You didn't get me, Ice Shard is a must. Knock Off and Icicle Crash should be slashed together on the second slot, while the other three moves should be alone in each slot.
  8. TRC

    TRC EVERYONE PLAY PU
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    Sorry, fixed.
  9. SOMALIA

    SOMALIA Lonely Wanderer
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    Magnezone doesn't outpace weavile with a choice scarf and scizor doesnt use scarf set in gen 6. Remove this line.

    QC APPROVED 1/3
  10. TRC

    TRC EVERYONE PLAY PU
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    Done. I think that was meant to be Magneton, do you think that needs putting in or is largely irrelevant?
  11. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    Though Magneton is rare for Scarf, I would think it is relevant enough. Scarf Magnezone is kind of crap in comparison to Magneton.
  12. TRC

    TRC EVERYONE PLAY PU
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    Ok, done. I put it at the end seeing as the other checks + counters are more relevant and more common.
  13. G-Beast

    G-Beast

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    Scarf Magneton is far from irrelevant :) trust me I know this from extensive use of it.
  14. Namso

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    Move the 4 HP into Def; if I'm not mistaken, Weavile takes less damage from Stealth Rock that way. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.

    Mention that Low Kick maims Tyranitar, Heatran, and Ferrothorn in particular.

    I would not substitute Low Kick for Poison Jab. Low Kick is crucial. I'd replace Pursuit or Knock Off / Icicle Crash with Poison Jab if I had to.

    In the usage tips, you should mention that Weavile is more or less used as a hit-and-run attacker. Bring it in against something it threatens a KO against, and then switch it out if the opponent brings in something that lives one of Weavile's attacks or threatens it with priority or something.

    Remove Agility from OO, that's terrible.

    Any Scarfer that can tank an Ice Shard beats Weavile, not just Magneton. These include Keldeo, Terrakion, and Genesect.
  15. TRC

    TRC EVERYONE PLAY PU
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    Thank you for the input. All suggestions have been implemented.
  16. Namso

    Namso
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  17. TRC

    TRC EVERYONE PLAY PU
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    Thank you. I'll write this up when I can.
  18. TRC

    TRC EVERYONE PLAY PU
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    Alright, this is written up and ready for the 3rd QC check.
  19. Plus

    Plus young money militia
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  20. TRC

    TRC EVERYONE PLAY PU
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    Thank you very much! This is ready for GP checking now.
  21. sirndpt

    sirndpt
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    only one convention-related thing i'd like to point out: smogon uses the serial comma: i.e. Ice Shard allows Weavile to revenge kill many threats, such as Garchomp, Landorus-T,(comma) and Noivern.

    other than that, my comments are in the post itself, so yeah, have a look through and please message (or tag) me if you'd like to clarify or discuss anything :)

    oops forgot: gp 1/2
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2013
  22. TRC

    TRC EVERYONE PLAY PU
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    sirndpt Implemented, thanks! Sorry for all of the errors, I'm relatively new at this.
  23. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego Damn son, where'd ya find this?
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    TRCarnivine

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    Overview
    ########
    Weavile is, for the most part, a forgotten offensive threat. However, it actually functions very well in the Overused metagame, (RC) due to its high Attack stat and immense base 125 Speed, the latter of which allows it to outspeed the majority of the unboosted metagame. In addition, its typing gives it great dual STAB coverage. Weavile also has great utility, as it can Pursuit trap Psychic- and Ghost-types effectively, as well as revenge kill a multitude of threats with its high Speed and Ice Shard. While Weavile has great offensive potential, it also has virtually nonexistent bulk, taking even neutral hits badly. Its typing gives it an unfortunate weakness to Stealth Rock, as well as a 4x weakness to the common Fighting-type moves, as well as weaknesses to two common priority moves: Bullet Punch and Mach Punch. Nevertheless, Weavile can provide great support as a revenge killer and a Pursuit trapper, so it is definitely a threat to look out for in the Overused metagame.

    Life Orb
    ########
    name: Life Orb Trapper
    move 1: Pursuit
    move 2: Ice Shard
    move 3: Knock Off / Icicle Crash
    move 4: Low Kick
    ability: Pressure
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    Moves
    ========
    Weavile has everything it needs to perform its role effectively. Pursuit lets Weavile weaken or eliminate many Psychic- and Ghost-type Pokemon, such as Gengar, Latios, Celebi, and Starmie. Ice Shard allows Weavile to revenge kill many threats, such as Garchomp, Landorus-T, and Noivern, as well as faster threats such as Choice Scarf Salamence and Venusaur in sun. Knock Off provides a reasonably powerful Dark-type STAB, (RC) while having the great utility in removing a foe's item. Alternatively, Icicle Crash can be used as a powerful Ice-type STAB for taking out Gliscor, Amoonguss, and Tangrowth. Low Kick rounds off Weavile's coverage as its best option against Heatran, Ferrothorn, Tyranitar, and Terrakion; it also deals reasonably well with other Steel-types.

    Set Details
    ========
    Life Orb is the standard item for a frail sweeper, combining power with the ability to switch moves. The EVs give Weavile the most power and Speed it can have, while the Jolly nature allows Weavile to outspeed Timid Starmie, Timid Latios, (AC) and Timid Gengar. The remaining 4 EVs are invested into Defense to minimize Stealth Rock damage.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    Weavile primarily plays as a hit-and-run attacker, as it has high offensive stats but often can't stay in for long because of its frailty. In general, Weavile's main role is to Pursuit trap, which it does effectively. Switch it in on a Pokemon that bothers your team but is weak to Pursuit, such as Jirachi, and Pursuit trap it so it is no longer a threat to your team. Between its high Speed and access to Ice Shard, Weavile also functions as a great revenge killer; it is especially good at checking Pokemon 4x weak to Ice, such as Salamence, Garchomp, and Landorus-T. Weavile's main STAB move is often powerful enough to revenge weakened neutral threats, but you can also try and predict the switch-in by using a move more suited to taking down that Pokemon instead. Knock Off is great to use in this situation as, at the very least, you will remove an opposing Pokemon's item. When a Pokemon that threatens Weavile comes in, simply switch out and come in again later when needed.

    Team Options
    ========
    Because of Weavile's ability to Pursuit trap, good teammates are Pokemon that can benefit from having Psychic- and Ghost-type Pokemon gone. Lucario, Thundurus-T, and Starmie all appreciate these Pokemon removed; Lucario in particular who also has reasonable synergy with Weavile. It is almost mandatory to have Rapid Spin support to manage Weavile's Stealth Rock weakness, so Tentacruel and Starmie are good partners. Tentacruel in particular has great defensive synergy with Weavile, as Tentacruel can take the Fighting- and Fire-type attacks aimed at Weavile, (RC) while Weavile can eliminate the Ground- and Grass-type Pokemon that give Tentacruel trouble. Anything that appreciates Pursuit and Ice Shard support makes a good partner; (SC) Keldeo appreciates Weavile's ability to remove Celebi, Jellicent and Latios, and Keldeo can also eliminate some of Weavile's counters, such as Skarmory and Forretress.

    Other Options
    ########
    Weavile can run a Swords Dance set to boost its Attack to great levels, setting up when it forces something out, but this strategy is very risky due to Weavile's frailty and it relies heavily on prediction. Choice Band can enable Weavile to hit with more power, especially with Pursuit if the opponent tries to stay in, but it makes Weavile very easy to play around. Finally, Weavile can run a gimmicky Focus Sash + Fake Out + Counter set, but dedicated leads are becoming uncommon and this set doesn't really take advantage of Weavile's defining qualities, so it is generally inferior.

    Checks & Counters
    ########
    **Mach Punch**: Mach Punch users that don't take much from Ice Shard can easily KO Weavile due to its 4x weakness to Fighting. This includes Lucario and Infernape, who which both resist Ice Shard. A healthy Breloom can check Weavile with Mach Punch, but as it takes around 80% damage from Ice Shard, Breloom is a very shaky check at best.

    **Choice Scarf users**: Choice Scarf users that can outspeed and KO Weavile while also taking little damage from Ice Shard, such as Terrakion, Keldeo, Genesect, and Magneton are very effective checks.

    **Offensive Threats**: Pokemon that can take all of Weavile's moves and KO back or use it as setup bait are good counters. This includes Infernape and Conkeldurr due to Mach Punch and Fighting STAB, Azumarill due to Play Rough, (AC) and Gyarados, (AC) which who can set up Substitute and Dragon Dances against Weavile on it.

    **Defensive Threats**: Many bulky Steel-types, such as Skarmory and Forretress, can wall Weavile. In addition to that, many Pokemon with reasonable bulk can capitalize on Weavile's relatively low-powered moves. Examples include Chansey, Keldeo, Vaporeon, and Rotom-W. Tangrowth and Hippowdon can check variants without Icicle Crash. Politoed, Tentacruel, and Avalugg also shrug off Weavile's moves; the former two can KO Wevaile with rain-boosted attacks, while the third can retaliate with Gyro Ball or simply Recover off the damage. There are many defensive threats that Weavile just cannot break through.

    **Stealth Rock**: As Weavile is weak to Stealth Rock and also takes Life Orb damage, it can be worn down very quickly. Anything that can set up Stealth Rock can seriously damage Weavile's ability to do its job efficiently. This includes Forretress, Excadrill and Terrakion.


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    Last edited: Dec 18, 2013
  24. TRC

    TRC EVERYONE PLAY PU
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    GatoDelFuego Done, thanks! My first analysis is completed.
  25. thelandlordsmm

    thelandlordsmm

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    I may be missing something, but isn't Icicle Crash illegal with Low Kick, since Low Kick is a 5th gen tutor, and Icicle Crash is a 6th Gen egg move? Since Low Kick is non-negotiable, I think Ice Punch should get the second slash after Knock Off.

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