1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Weezing (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by DTC, Dec 16, 2011.

  1. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,705
    [​IMG]

    [Overview]

    <p>The toxic cloud around Weezing must be working, as Weezing does an excellent job of keeping physical attackers away. With its impressive base 120 Defense, Poison typing, and ability Levitate, Weezing can counter NU powerhouses such as Torterra and Sawk with ease. In addition to its fantastic physical bulk, Weezing has a wide movepool that includes Will-O-Wisp, Pain Split and Fire Blast, all of which are unusual for a Poison-type. However, Weezing is not without its faults. While it does get a fantastic movepool, Weezing can't utilize it well&mdash;most Weezing one will ever see only ever use the same few moves. The NU tier isn't the most kind to it either; bulky Psychic-types run rampant in NU, much like bulky Water-types in UU, and they threaten to straight-up KO Weezing or use it as setup bait.</p>


    [SET]
    name: Physical Tank
    move 1: Will-O-Wisp
    move 2: Pain Split
    move 3: Sludge Bomb
    move 4: Clear Smog
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Levitate
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set aims to use the most out of Weezing's high physical bulk and ability to check many NU threats. Will-O-Wisp is an incredibly useful move, allowing Weezing to severely cripple physical attackers that dare stay in; walls too won't appreciate being burned. Pain Split gives Weezing semi-reliable recovery, allowing it to stay in the match longer. Sludge Bomb grants Weezing a STAB move in case it needs to attack. While it won't be that powerful, it can be nice to kill weakened switch-ins such as Magmortar and Exeggutor. While stat boosters aren't too common in NU, and most of the physical setup sweepers are already beaten by Weezing, Clear Smog can be used to get rid of boosts that Pokemon such as Misdreavus may have acquired. Keep in mind, however, that you shouldn't be relying on this move much; most physical setup sweepers can just cripple with Will-O-Wisp, and most special setup sweepers force Weezing out. </p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Toxic may be used over Will-O-Wisp if you'd like to punish foes such as Magmortar on the switch-in, but it is generally less useful than Will-O-Wisp to Weezing since it doesn't cut Attack stats. Taunt may be used over Clear Smog if you'd like to stop Pokemon such as Musharna from trying to set up, but it has less utility than Clear Smog as Weezing isn't exactly the fastest Pokemon around. Fire Blast is notable for hitting Substitute Haunter and Amoonguss, but it doesn't have much use outside of that. Haze has some use over Clear Smog: it can hit through Substitutes and Steel-types; however, there aren't many setup sweepers in NU that utilize Substitute and there are no notable Steel-types that commonly set up. If Swellow and Gorebyss are big threats to your team, Thunderbolt may be used to OHKO them.</p>

    <p>Pain Split isn't exactly the best recovery move around, so Rest may be used in conjunction with a cleric. Lickilicky is a notable cleric who synergies well with Weezing and can also pass Wishes to it. As Weezing's main threats are the abundant Psychic-types, Pursuit users, such as Absol and Skuntank, can be very helpful.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Weezing has a ton of different moves. However, there are few it can use effectively. RestTalk is one of the most effective options you can use, as it allows Weezing to have a reliable healing move while being able to actually do something while Resting, but it is both unreliable and set-up bait for threats such as Substitute Calm Mind Mesprit. The lack of moveslots can be annoying at times as well; Clear Smog can be a very useful move if you need to remove stat boosts from an opposing Pokemon, but you shouldn't forgo a move for it. If your team utilizes frail setup sweepers such as Belly Drum Linnone, Memento may be used to initiate a setup opportunity.</p>

    <p>If you really want to, you may take a more offensive approach to Weezing, as it does get access to moves such as Sludge Bomb, Thunderbolt, and Fire Blast. Unfortunately, its base 85 Special Attack will often prove insufficient, even for NU. Venoshock can be used along with a Toxic Spikes partner for a 185 Base Power move after STAB. However, do note that there are numerous grounded Poison-types in NU, which can absorb Toxic Spikes, rendering this strategy generally ineffective. If you want, you can use Black Sludge over Leftovers, although doing that allows a Pokemon with Trick to cripple one of your other Pokemon by Tricking it the harmful item. </p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Weezing, while an effective NU wall, is not without its faults. In fact, due to the amount of Psychic-types in NU, it might find itself more often running away from the battle than forcing opponents out. That's not the only thing that gives Weezing trouble, Fire-types such as Magmortar, Camerupt, and Emboar can switch in to Will-O-Wisp with ease and don't mind taking a Sludge Bomb, either. They can then retaliate with a powerful Fire-type attack. In fact, most special attackers give Weezing a lot of trouble, often 2HKOing it, as its Special Defense stat is much lower than Defense. Weezing is not safe from even some physical attackers, as Pokemon such as Swords Dance Pinsir and Guts Swellow swiftly 2HKO it. Additionally, decently fast Pokemon who doesn't take too much damage from Sludge Bomb can set up a Substitute on Weezing and laugh at whatever its attempts to hurt them.</p>
  2. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken GANONBOARF
    is a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    NU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    3,378
    Mention Magmortar and other Fire-types (...I actually use Camerupt as my Weezing counter lol), as it really takes little from anything but Sludge Bomb and cleanly OHKOs with Fire Blast. Wish support from stuff like Lickilicky is also definitely worth mentioning, considering that Weezing has to otherwise rely on the awful Pain Split for recovery. They actually make decent partners too, with Licky handling the special side and Weezing covering a lot of the physical. Rest is also worth an AC mention, considering on how poor its recovery options are. Even though Weezing is really physically bulky, it can eventually just be taken down through repeated attacks because of that.

    Make those changes and I think this is stamp-worthy. I can't think of anything else, at least. XD
  3. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,705
    Added all of your suggested changes. Thanks for checking so quickly!
  4. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken GANONBOARF
    is a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    NU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    3,378
    [​IMG]

    QC APPROVED (1/3)
  5. NatGeo

    NatGeo kauai
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,426
  6. Omicron

    Omicron
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    3,042
    QC APPROVED (3/3)

    tennisedit: bastards how did you sneak this through without me approving it
  7. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,705
    Updated to fit the new NU.

    I replaced Fire Blast with Clear Smog, Fire Blast really isn't that useful anymore. Before it was useful for things like Sub Scolipede, Magneton and Klinklang, but they're gone now.
  8. ChaoticaMortis

    ChaoticaMortis

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2011
    Messages:
    518
    Thunderbolt allows you to hit more things for SE damage, and seeing as most of the things Weezing is trying to wall down here either resist Sludge Bomb or are weak to T-Bolt I don't see why it's not at least in the OO.
  9. Pkrs

    Pkrs

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2010
    Messages:
    562
    you can put t-bol and f-blast, a typical weezing tank is super effective in NU with misdreavus
  10. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,705
    Alright, I'm adding Thunderbolt to AC.

    @pkrs, Sorry, what are you trying to say?
  11. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,705
    Sorry for the double post, but this is written and ready for GP checks.
  12. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego No matter if it seems so hard, friends are near
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor

    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Messages:
    3,103
    Amateur check
    Removals in RED, changes in BLUE, comments in BOLD

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]

    [Overview]

    <p>The toxic cloud around Weezing must be working, as Weezing does an excellent job of keeping physical attackers away. With its unnaturally high base Defense (for a Poison-type) and the ability Levitate, Weezing can counter NU powerhouses such as Torterra and Sawk. Not only does it have fantastic physical bulk, it has a wide range of moves; (no semicolon) such as Will-O-Wisp, Pain Split and Fire Blast, all of which are unusual for a Poison-type. However, Weezing is not without its faults. While it does get a fantastic movepool, it can't utilize it well - most Weezings one will ever see only use the same few moves. The NU tier isn't the most kind to it either; bulky Psychic-types run rampant in NU, much like bulky Water-types in UU. These Psychic-types can either straight-up KO Weezing or use it as set-up bait.</p>


    [SET]
    name: Physical Tank
    move 1: Will-O-Wisp
    move 2: Pain Split
    move 3: Sludge Bomb
    move 4: Clear Smog
    item: Black Sludge
    ability: Levitate
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA

    [Set Comments]

    <p>This set aims to use the most out of Weezing's high physical bulk and ability to check many NU threats. Will-O-Wisp is an incredibly useful move, allowing Weezing to severely cripple physical attackers if they dare stay in; even walls won't appreciate being burned. Pain Split gives Weezing semi-reliable recovery, allowing it to stay in the match for longer. Sludge Bomb gives grants (you said gives above, just adding some variation) Weezing a STAB move in case it needs to attack. While it won't be that powerful, it can be nice to kill weakened switch-ins such as Magmortar and Exeggutor. While stat boosters aren't too common in NU, and most of the physical setup sweepers are already beaten by Weezing, Clear Smog can be used to get rid of boosts acquired from Pokemon such as Misdreavus. (period) just Keep in mind, however, that you shouldn't be relying on this move much.</p>

    [Additional Comments]

    <p>Toxic may be used over Will-O-Wisp if you'd like to punish things such as Magmortar trying to switch in, but it is generally less useful than Will-O-Wisp and Weezing should be trying to spread as much many burns as possible. Taunt may be used over Clear Smog if you'd like to stop Pokemon such as Musharna from trying to set up, but it has less utility than Clear Smog as Weezing isn't exactly the fastest Pokemon around. Fire Blast is notable for hitting Substitute Haunter and Amoongus, but it doesn't have much use outside of that. Haze has some uses over Clear Smog: it can hit through Subs and Steel-types; however, there aren't many set-up sweepers in NU that utilize Substitute and there are no notable Steel-types that commonly set up. If Swellow and Gorebyss are big threats to your team, Thunderbolt may be used to OHKO them.

    Pain Split isn't exactly the best recovery around, so Rest may be used in conjunction with a cleric. Lickilicky is a notable cleric who synergies well with Weezing and may also pass Wishes to it, (no comma) if you decide to just use Pain Split as recovery. As Weezing's main threats are the abundant Psychic-types, Pursuit users such as Absol and Skuntank can be very helpful.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Yes, Weezing has a ton of different moves. However, there are few it can use effectively. RestTalk is one of the most effective options you may use, as it allows Weezing to have a reliable healing move, (no comma) while being able to actually do something while resting, albeit unreliable. Not only is it unreliable, it is a lot easier to switch in to with things such as Sub CM Mespirit, as Weezing can't do anything in return. The lack of an extra moveslot can be annoying at times as well. If a team utilizes frail setup sweepers such as Belly Drum Linnone, Memento may be used to initiate a setup opportunity.

    If you really want to, you may use a more offensive approach to Weezing, as it does get access to moves such as Sludge Bomb, Thunderbolt and Fire Blast coming off of a decent 85 base Special Attack. Unfortunately, that 85 base Special Attack usually isn't enough, even for NU. If you combine Venoshock with Toxic Spikes, its base power skyrockets up to what is effectively 185 base power after STAB. Do note that there are numerous Poison-types in NU, so this strategy won't work out as well as it might have been able to.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Weezing, while an effective NU wall, is not without its faults. In fact, due to the amount of Psychic-types in NU, it finds itself running away from the battle rather than forcing other things out more often than not. That's not the only thing that gives Weezing trouble; Fire-types such as Magmortar, Camerupt and Emboar can switch in to Will-O-Wisp with ease and don't mind taking a Sludge Bomb, either. They can then retaliate with a powerful Fire-type attack. In fact, most Special Attackers give Weezing a lot of trouble, as its Special Defense stat is much lower than Defense. You'll find that most Special Attackers have the ability to 2HKO Weezing. Weezing is not even safe from some Physical Attackers, as Pokemon such as Swords Dance Pinsir and Guts Swellow 2HKO through Weezing's massive defenses. That's not the end of Weezing's issues, and any decently-fast Pokemon with Substitute who doesn't take too much damage from Sludge Bomb may set up a Substitute on Weezing and laugh at whatever it throws at them.</p>
  13. sirndpt

    sirndpt
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,124
    Gato: Removals in RED, changes in BLUE, comments in BOLD
    sirndpt: remove add comments

    [​IMG]

    GP APPROVED 1/2

    also, I'm not too sure about this, but I believe Leftovers is the default recovery item for Poison-types. if a QC member or someone more senior happens to see this, could you please clarify? thanks :)
  14. November Blue

    November Blue NO YOUTUBE, I DO NOT WANT TO WATCH VIDEOS AT MAX VOLUME!!
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2010
    Messages:
    1,642
    Sirn, you're right. Black Sludge should never be used over Leftovers, as it offers no extra benefits, and can be tricked onto one of your other Pokemon.
  15. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego No matter if it seems so hard, friends are near
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor

    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Messages:
    3,103
    Shouldn't black sludge always be used? It discourages tricking weezing a choice item...

    Also, does that last check of mine count as stamped or not?
  16. Aeron Ee1

    Aeron Ee1 Nom nom nom
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2009
    Messages:
    743
    yes, placeholder.

    it really isn't that hard to trick the black sludge back onto your side, most likely onto a Pokemon that doesn't want it...

    Proofread (open)


    Changes in bold
    Removals in red
    Comments in bold red

    [Overview]

    <p>The toxic cloud around Weezing must be working, as Weezing does an excellent job of keeping physical attackers away. With its unnaturally high base Defense, Poison typing, and the Levitate ability, Weezing can counter NU powerhouses such as Torterra and Sawk with ease. In addition to its fantastic physical bulk, Weezing has a wide movepool that includes Will-O-Wisp, Pain Split and Fire Blast, all of which are unusual for a Poison-type. However, Weezing is not without its faults. While it does get a fantastic movepool, it can't utilize it well - most Weezing one will ever see only ever use the same few moves. The NU tier isn't the most kind to it either; bulky Psychic-types run rampant in NU, much like bulky Water-types in UU, and they threaten to straight-up KO Weezing or use it as setup bait.</p>


    [SET]
    name: Physical Tank
    move 1: Will-O-Wisp
    move 2: Pain Split
    move 3: Sludge Bomb
    move 4: Clear Smog
    item: Black Sludge
    ability: Levitate
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA

    [Set Comments]

    <p>This set aims to use the most out of Weezing's high physical bulk and ability to check many NU threats. Will-O-Wisp is an incredibly useful move, allowing Weezing to severely cripple physical attackers that dare stay in; even walls won't appreciate being burned. Pain Split gives Weezing semi-reliable recovery, allowing it to stay in the match longer. Sludge Bomb grants Weezing a STAB move in case it needs to attack. While it won't be that powerful, it can be nice to kill weakened switch-ins such as Magmortar and Exeggutor. While stat boosters aren't too common in NU, and most of the physical setup sweepers are already beaten by Weezing, Clear Smog can be used to get rid of boosts acquired from Pokemon such as Misdreavus. Keep in mind, however, that you shouldn't be relying on this move much.</p>

    [Additional Comments]

    <p>Toxic may be used over Will-O-Wisp if you'd like to punish Pokemon such as Magmortar trying to switch in, but it is generally less useful than Will-O-Wisp to Weezing since it doesn't cut Attack stats and Weezing should be trying to spread as many burns as possible. Taunt may be used over Clear Smog if you'd like to stop Pokemon such as Musharna from trying to set up, but it has less utility than Clear Smog as Weezing isn't exactly the fastest Pokemon around. Fire Blast is notable for hitting Substitute Haunter and Amoongus, but it doesn't have much use outside of that. Haze has some uses over Clear Smog: it can hit through Subtitutes and Steel-types; however, there aren't many setup sweepers in NU that utilize Substitute and there are no notable Steel-types that commonly set up. If Swellow and Gorebyss are big threats to your team, Thunderbolt may be used to OHKO them.</p>

    <p>Pain Split isn't exactly the best recovery around, so Rest may be used in conjunction with a cleric. Lickilicky is a notable cleric who synergies well with Weezing and may also pass Wishes to it if you decide to just use Pain Split as recovery. As Weezing's main threats are the abundant Psychic-types, Pursuit users such as Absol and Skuntank can be very helpful.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Yes, Weezing has a ton of different moves. However, there are few it can use effectively. RestTalk is one of the most effective options you may use, as it allows Weezing to have a reliable healing move while being able to actually do something while resting, albeit unreliably. Not only is it unreliable, It is also a lot easier to switch in to with Pokemon such as Substitute Calm Mind Mespirit, as Weezing can't do much in return. The lack of an extra moveslot can be annoying at times as well. If a team utilizes frail setup sweepers such as Belly Drum Linnone, Memento may be used to initiate a setup opportunity.</p>

    <p>If you really want to, you may use a more offensive approach to Weezing, as it does get access to moves such as Sludge Bomb, Thunderbolt and Fire Blast coming off of a decent base 85 Special Attack. Unfortunately, that base 85 Special Attack will often prove insufficient, even when boosted, for NU. If you combine Venoshock with Toxic Spikes, its Base Power skyrockets up to what is effectively 185 base power after STAB. Do note that there are a number of popular Poison-types in NU, so this strategy won't work out as well as it should most of the time.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Weezing, while an effective NU wall, is not without its faults. In fact, due to the amount of Psychic-types in NU, it finds itself running away from the battle rather than forcing other things out more often than not. That's not the only thing that gives Weezing trouble, Fire-types such as Magmortar, Camerupt and Emboar can switch in to Will-O-Wisp with ease and don't mind taking a Sludge Bomb, either. They can then retaliate with a powerful Fire-type attack. In fact, most special attackers give Weezing a lot of trouble, as its Special Defense stat is much lower than Defense. You'll find that most special attackers have the ability to 2HKO Weezing. Weezing is not even safe from some physical attackers, as Pokemon such as Swords Dance Pinsir and Guts Swellow 2HKO through Weezing's massive Defense. That's not even the end of Weezing's troubles: any decently-fast Pokemon who doesn't take too much damage from Sludge Bomb may set up a Substitute on Weezing and laugh at whatever it throws at them.</p>


    [​IMG] (2/2)
  17. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,705
    Thanks GP Team/Am Checkers, I edited the analysis with the checks and will note all the things I did wrong for future analyses. :)

    Also, about the Black Sludge thing, you do realize the Pokemon using Trick gets crippled as well? Sure they can always Trick it back, but you can use that turn to your advantage, possibly predicting correctly and switching Weezing into the attack so you have your Black Sludge again.
  18. Omicron

    Omicron
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    3,042
    Ok just make the main item Leftovers and mention Black Sludge in OO
  19. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,705
    Alright, made the changes.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)