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We're Making Puns in the Rain

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by EonX, Jul 21, 2012.

  1. EonX

    EonX Wiseman Eon
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,568
    With Pokemon Showdown currently down due to unfortunate DDoS attacks, I figured now is as good a time as any to formally introduce everyone to the team I've been using for the better part of BW2 OU so far. Parts of it are really, really common while other team members aren't exactly the first thing that comes to mind when you think of rain. Together, it's made for a great team that has won 80%+ of its matches (out of over 100) It's played more defensively as I typically will use defensive switches to eventually find an opportune time to go on the offensive. One of the major strengths this team has is its flexibility. I've has wins in matches as short as 15 turns and wins in matches as long as 60 turns. I've also won multiple matches when operating primarily in the opponent's weather. As for the title, it'll make more sense with the nicknames. So, without a further ado, let's get started.

    Team At a Glance: (as seen in Team Preview)

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    In-Depth:

    [​IMG]
    Lady Jeteon (Latias) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 108 HP / 148 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Surf
    - Psyshock
    - Recover

    Lady Jeteon. It should make sense. I mean, come on. A female. The Eon Pokemon according to the Pokedex. She looks like a jet plane. See? Anyway, I'm sure I've posted this set around some of the OU Metagame discussion threads, but this is such an amazing Pokemon for this team. Originally chosen over her brother, Latios, for her better bulk and security in defeating the many Fighting types and Thundurus-T, Latias has perhaps become the best member of the team. Latias has been able to get me out of more jams than I care to remember. The moveset looks a lot like something Latios would run, but it's the rain support from Politoed that makes it all work. With rain at Latias's side, she can easily rely on Surf to get good hits on most opponents while dealing with the likes of Heatran, Physically Defensive Skarmory, Forretress, and others quite admirably. Draco Meteor may not be the strongest thing in the world coming from a Latias without full Special Attack investment, but there have definitely been moments where I've needed the immediate power to take care of Dragons, Thundurus-T, and Tornadus-T in a pinch when they may be threatening to try and sweep through my team. Psyshock is really the best move on this set. With it, Latias is able to get rid of many troublesome foes such as Toxicroak, Keldeo, Breloom, Virizion, Tentacruel, and others. It also gives Latias something to hit opposing Ninetales with in the Sun. Finally, there's Recover. With Recover, Latias can sometimes use switch-ins to just heal back up to a desirable amount of HP for the next time it switches in. The EVs look quite strange, but it's something of a split between bulky CM Latias and LO tank Latias. To fulfill her role as the best switch-in to Keldeo for this team, Latias needs max Speed EVs and a Timid nature in order to switch-in, take a hit, and KO with Psyshock. 148 Special Attack EVs are needed to ensure this OHKO after some entry hazard damage. By extension, this also guarantees the OHKO on Terrakion with the same entry hazard support. The remaining EVs are placed in HP so Latias can survive more attacks.
    Why Latias?: It's easy to ask that question since her brother seems more suited for an offensive role. However, Latias provides me with a very important pivot from defense to offense and vice versa. She synergizes very well with the defensive Pokemon on this team (Ferrothorn and Landorus-T) while also sharing great synergy with Keldeo and Jirachi.

    [​IMG]
    Slippy Toad (Politoed) (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    Slippy Toad. Fans of Star Fox should get this reference. Technical genius for the Star Fox team who seems underwhelming at times in combat. Politoed provides the rain for this team, but will often times lack the sheer power to get through bulky opponents. So, any team hoping to use rain needs Politoed. The Scarf version seemed to fit best with this team as it provides me with a last ditch attempt to remove dangerous threats such as Tornadus-T and Thundurus-T should my counters for them be too weak to switch into them again. Hydro Pump is a given. In the rain, it has high power and can eliminate a whole host of threats not expecting Scarf Politoed. Therian Formes, Scarf Tyranitar, Ninetales, Terrakion. The list of targets is pretty long. The other moves are basically just for coverage, which is always something a Scarf user appreciates. Ice Beam can be used on the Therians, Gliscor, and Dragons when I can't afford a miss with Hydro Pump. Focus Blast is mainly for Ferrothorn, but seeing as this team does have its fair share of issues with it, it's a great way to lure it in. Hidden Power Grass is used to 2HKO Gastrodon, but the damage output is usually disappointing against other targets such as Jelicent. Been thinking of maybe putting Toxic or Surf here. Thoughts?
    Why Politoed?: Any rain team needs Politoed to provide torrential rains. The Scarf set works as a way to not lose offensive momentum while still outspeeding basically anything Jolteon outspeeds (Jolteon outspeeds by 1 point) That being said, my experience with Specs Jolteon translates a lot into how carefully I play Politoed and when I pick my spots to come in.

    [​IMG]
    Wishmaker (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Calm Mind
    - Thunder
    - Flash Cannon

    I really shouldn't have to explain the nickname for you guys. Jirachi is said to grant wishes, so it's the team's Wishmaker...only it doesn't have Wish. Jirachi was actually the last member to be added to the team after realizing how laughably weak I was to Tornadus-T if Politoed was down. Since the defensive core was already finished, I wanted Jirachi to be a second cross between defense and offense (the first being Latias) That's where SubCM comes into play. With Sub and Calm Mind, Jirachi is able to use Pokemon such as Chansey, Blissey, and Ferrothorn as setup fodder. If it's raining, Jirachi can actually come out on top against Specially Defensive Heatran in last Pokemon scenarios (have legit done this before) When you're trying to get Jirachi to sweep, Sub up and then use Calm Mind to boost up. Sometimes you won't have the time to Sub up and may have to just make do with a Calm Mind boost before needing to attack something. Thunder takes advantage of not only the rain, but also Jirachi's Serene Grace. There's a credo I live by: When you see Jirachi, expect hax. It's just going to happen. Thunder has a 60% paralysis chance which brings parahax into play. Many people use Water Pulse alongside Thunder in the rain, but I choose not to so Jirachi isn't totally dependent on the rain for its offense. Flash Cannon is used so Jirachi can still hit opponents outside of rain and it gives a nice, reliable STAB to use in all weathers. There are times where I've been left kicking myself, wishing I had either Water Pulse or Psyshock, but when you only have 2 attacking options, nothing will be the perfect solution. The EVs let Jirachi Speed tie base 100 Speed Pokemon and make 101 HP Subs, letting Jirachi slowly setup on the pink blobs.
    Why Jirachi?: As I said earlier, the team needs Jirachi. Without Jirachi, I would have no reliable switch-in for Tornadus-T, and without Politoed, I would have no reliable way of taking out Tornadus-T due to Hurricane confusion hax. Jirachi also gives me a secondary, more offensive Steel type to take Dragon type moves, something that's especially useful against teams using a Double Dragon strategy.

    [​IMG]
    Thorn Troll (Ferrothorn) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Spikes
    - Leech Seed
    - Power Whip
    - Thunder Wave

    Thorn Troll. Ferrothorn is made of thorny, iron barbs and it trolls EVERYTHING that doesn't have a Fighting or Fire type move, especially in the rain. Thus, Ferrothorn is a Thorn Troll. All joking aside, Ferrothorn is one of the few walls I like using since it actually has an offensive presence. It's just something I've always wanted and probably why I do so badly with using stall teams, but if a wall doesn't have some sort of direct offensive presence, I tend to not use it very well. Anyway, Spikes is what Ferrothorn is known for. Come in on one of its many resistances, setup a layer of Spikes, and probably hightail it on out of there. Rinse and repeat. Leech Seed gives Ferrothorn a source of semi-reliable recovery and can create a makeshift trap with Spikes. Stay in and take Leech Seed damage or switch out and endure entry hazard damage? Because the team has a Stealth Rock user, Ferrothorn has a moveslot freed up for another support option. Thunder Wave was chosen so as to cripple the likes of Lati@s, Tornadus-T, and Keldeo along with many others. Finally, Power Whip is used as the offensive move as Ferrothorn commonly comes in on bulky Waters. This allows it to actually be able to do something to them directly should enough layers of Spikes are up (usually 2 is enough for this team to work at its best while 1 layer is workable) I took the Ubers EV spread for Ferrothorn for a couple of reasons. Landorus-T has Intimidate which lets the whole team, including Ferrothorn take hits more easily. Also, many of the threats Ferrothorn finds itself trying to wall and/or check attack from the special side (think bulky Waters, Lati@s, Thundurus-T, Tornadus-T, etc.) 48 EVs are still put in Defense to allow Ferrothorn to take some physical attacks.
    Why Ferrothorn?: Ferrothorn is still the best at what it does IMO. Take hits from both sides and set up Spikes. Ferrothorn's ability to take so many attacks for each team member is vital to this team's success. It takes Grass and Electric moves for Politoed, Water moves for Landorus-T, Bug, Ghost, Dark, and Dragon moves for Latias, and Electric, Grass, and Psychic moves for Keldeo. Latias covers it perfectly by taking and eliminating the Fire and Fighting types Ferrothorn generally draws in.

    [​IMG]
    Tiger Beast (Landorus-T) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 196 HP / 96 Atk / 216 Def
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - U-turn
    - Stone Edge

    Landorus-T is a beast and it resembles the cat. So, it shall be known as a Tiger Beast. Idc if it doesn't look like a normal tiger. It's a tiger and that's that ;p Landorus-T is like the neglected 3rd child in a family of brothers. Tornadus-T and Thundurus-T got hyped so much because of how awesome they would be in rain, and, to their credit, they are. However, to just ignore how good Landorus-T would just be asking for trouble. It really filled a role in this team that nothing else really could. It can setup SR, take on just about any physical sweeper in the tier, and still have a strong offensive presence. Stealth Rock is the key and also the reason I usually lead with Landorus-T in weather wars. Thanks to its offensive presence, Lando-T is perhaps the most reliable user of the move since Magic Bounce users are scared shitless of it at first. After that, Landorus-T turns into a very good bulky attacker and pivot. Even with just minimal investment in Attack, Earthquake still hits pretty dang hard, capable of 2HKOing Scizor, a very common physical attacker that Landorus-T has few issues with taking on. Stone Edge OHKOes Offensive DD Dragonite after SR, which Landorus-T provides, making it self-sufficient. Even if Dragonite uses DD on the switch, it will have to boost up again to get to +1, meaning you can get in with near impunity as long as Landorus-T is healthy. If Lando-T isn't healthy enough, you've got 2 Steel types to turn to on the forced Outrage. Finally, U-Turn allows Landorus-T to scout for troublesome Pokemon such as Keldeo or Gyarados, thus allowing me to get my check or counter in quickly. Landorus-T's low-ish Speed allows it to usually take the hit and get the counter in without taking any damage if the opponent decides to attack when I U-Turn. The EVs focus on Landorus-T's physical bulk while allowing it to always OHKO Offensive Dragonite with Stone Edge after SR. I'm well aware that Pocket has another very sufficient EV spread for this, but I just don't like leaving that OHKO on Dnite up to chance (my luck isn't all that great sometimes and I'm already relying on Stone Miss)
    Why Landorus-T?: I chose it because of how efficient it is. Landorus-T provides me with many team roles in one Pokemon. SR user, bulky attacker, scouter, and check/counter to virtually every physical attacker in the tier. Even if I know Landorus-T can't beat the opposing physical attacker 1-on-1, I still will sometimes switch it in just so my counter has an easier time with it. Again, this is very useful against teams who may use the Double Dragon strategy or various other strategies that involve using 2 Pokemon with similar checks and counters and have one weaken them for the other to sweep.

    [​IMG]
    Lil Pony (Keldeo-R) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Icy Wind
    - Hidden Power [Electric]

    To be perfectly honest, I'm not a big fan of MLP. (hate comments commence) In fact, I've probably watched a grand total of 3 episodes at all, none of which I can really remember tbh. Keldeo's a pony, so I'll roll with this Lil Pony. Fun true fact: The original idea for making this team was to center it around Specs Keldeo. Although it may not have turned out to be the focus of the team in the end, it's still the brute powerhouse of the team. Whenever I need to smash something absurdly hard, I turn to Keldeo. Specs Hydro Pump from Keldeo has, like...... 5 viable switch-ins? That's just a guess, but I know the list isn't really long on what can take multiple Hydro Pumps in the rain from this thing. Secret Sword gives Keldeo a more reliable way around the pink blobs, Tyranitar, and Ninetales. It also 2HKOs Gastrodon switching in and expecting to get a free switch into Hydro Pump or Calm Mind. Through the use of Choice Specs, Keldeo can run full coverage. Icy Wind isn't the strongest thing in the world, but anything faster hates it. Now, they're slower and have to take another Icy Wind to the face before they can attack. Bye-bye Lati@s, Tornadus-T, and certain Scarfers. HP Electric is used for the always-great (albeit weak in this case) BoltBeam coverage. Jelicent won't like getting 2HKOed against something it thought it was supposed to counter. Also slams Gyarados much more reliably than any other move Keldeo has. That being said, unless I'm purposely trying to lure in the likes of Lati@s and Jelicent, Keldeo will often find itself spamming Hydro Pump or, if it's sunny, Secret Sword. The EVs are pretty standard for a Choice Specs user. Max Special Attack and Speed with a Timid nature.
    Why Keldeo?: Because it's pretty! Kidding aside, Keldeo is probably my favorite rain abuser since it just outright destroys stuff. I chose Specs over CM because I just felt like I would only be able to get one kill out of the match before something faster would force me out. So, I thought "Why not just start with a boosted Special Attack?". Since then, Keldeo's been the force of this team. It also provides something of a one-two punch with Scarf Politoed as most of the opposing team's Water resists will be exhausted to deal with the power of Specs Keldeo, allowing Politoed to clean up late.

    Final Looks and Importable

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    It probably isn't the best team in the world, but it's certainly the most consistent one I've used thus far in BW2 OU. Obviously open to constructive criticism and such. Thanks in advance for the rates.

    Code:
    Importable:
    
    Lady Jeteon (Latias) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 108 HP / 148 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Surf
    - Psyshock
    - Recover
    
    Slippy Toad (Politoed) (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    
    Wishmaker (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Calm Mind
    - Thunder
    - Flash Cannon
    
    ThornTroll (Ferrothorn) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Spikes
    - Leech Seed
    - Power Whip
    - Thunder Wave
    
    Tiger Beast (Landorus-T) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 196 HP / 96 Atk / 216 Def
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - U-turn
    - Stone Edge
    
    Lil Pony (Keldeo-R) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Icy Wind
    - Hidden Power [Electric]
    Changes Currently Under Testing
    Show Hide
    Currently Testing these Changes:
    SpD Jirachi over SubCM Jirachi
    Life Orb and Expert Belt instead of Choice Specs on Keldeo
    252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpDef EV spread on Ferrothorn
    Bulldoze instead of Spikes on Ferrothorn
    Perish Song in place of HP Grass on Politoed
    44 HP / 212 SpAtk / 252 Spe EV spread on Latias w/ Life Orb
  2. EonX

    EonX Wiseman Eon
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Threatlist:

    Show Hide
    Standard OU Offensive Threats

    [​IMG] Tyranitar:
    • Choice Band - Landorus-T Intimidates and then Koes with EQ. Ferrothorn resists everything but Superpower as does Keldeo. Politoed can force it out, but can’t really switch in safely.
    • Choice Scarf - Same as above, but less emphasis on Keldeo. Politoed outspeeds.
    • Dragon Dance - Landorus-T with good ol’ Intimidate. After that, coverage moves choose the counter. Lando-T wins if Ttar doesn’t have Aqua Tail or Ice Punch. Keldeo resists everything unless EQ. Ferrothorn easily beats those without Fire Punch and walls those with Aqua Tail.
    [​IMG] Rotom-W:
    • Choice Scarf / Specs - Latias walls it and can actually use Scarf and Specs. Lando-T checks Volt Switch-happy ones. Ferro walls it, but unlike Latias, is crippled by Trick.
    • Support - Latias again, but paralysis is a pain. Keldeo outspeeds and has Secret Sword for weakened ones. Politoed can revenge. Ferro walls again, but hates a burn.
    [​IMG] Scizor:
    • Choice Band - Lando-T every day of the week. 2HKOs easily. Politoed and Keldeo outspeed and resist Bullet Punch. Jirachi can set up a boost or 2 on those locked into Pursuit or Bullet Punch.
    • Swords Dance - Lando-T again, but will rarely stay in after the first BP. Keldeo and Politoed still outspeed and resist BP. Keldeo also resists Bug Bite. Can be quite dangerous if Lando-T can’t Intimidate it due to the sheer damage output it has.
    • Bulky Swords Dance - Lando-T. Getting the trend? Politoed and Keldeo outspeed. Superpower can hurt though.
    [​IMG] Dragonite:
    • Choice Band - Lando-T checks it, but pivots to Ferrothorn to tank the Outrages. Jirachi can tank weakened Outrages and get up a boost or two. Politoed and Keldeo can both tank an Espeed and KO back. Latias outspeeds and has Draco.
    • Dragon Dance - Lando-T wins unless a crit. Ferro and Rachi tank Outrages.
    • Mixed - Easy to kill, annoying as hell to play around. Usually pivot until I get Keldeo, Latias, or Politoed in. Then it’s gone.
    • Parashuffler - Lando-T can prevent paralysis from spreading and keep breaking Subs with SE. Eventually, it’ll bring out Rachi who uses it as setup fodder, or Politoed who outright maims it.
    • Rain Abuse - Latias can take any hit and strike back with DM. Ferrothorn can whittle it down with Leech Seed. Politoed and Keldeo can revenge kill.
    [​IMG] Politoed:
    • Choice Specs / Scarf - Latias only fears Specs Ice Beam. Keldeo outspeeds Specs and can tank a hit from Scarf. Ferro handles Scarf very well. Specs Focus Blast hurts.
    • 3 Attacks - Slightly weaker than Specs, but can change moves. Latias can take even Ice Beam. Politoed has HP Grass. Keldeo outspeeds. Ferro only fears Focus Miss.
    [​IMG] Heatran:
    • Standard - Latias all day and night. Politoed fears little. Keldeo can KO with either STAB.
    [​IMG] Jirachi:
    • Substitute + Calm Mind / Wish + Calm Mind - Don’t let it keep a Sub. Keldeo breaks through CM. Lando-T can take anything but Water Pulse and KO back.
    • Expert Belt - Ferro does good against this. Fire Punch is weakened in rain. Lando-T fears little. Keldeo can blast through. Politoed outspeeds and can revenge.
    • Choice Scarf - Iron Head is annoying. Lando-T checks with Intimidate. Ferro usually comes in after to wall. No Ice Punch means Lando-T is safe.
    [​IMG] Latios:
    • Life Orb / Expert Belt - Ferrothorn is my best switch-in. Scout for HP Fire with Toed. If no HP Fire, Ferro stays in next time to cripple with T-Wave / set up Spikes. Toed can revenge. Latias outspeeds HP Fire variants.
    • Choice Scarf / Specs - Scarf outspeeds everything, but is helplessly walled by Ferro who can cripple with T-Wave. Checked by Rachi. Specs is outsped by Toed. Ferro and Rachi tank DMs.
    • Calm Mind - Ferro cripples with paralysis. Rachi can setup alongside it. Threatening since my faster stuff hits from the special side (Latias and Politoed) but thankfully rare.
    [​IMG] Reuniclus:
    • Calm Mind - Tricky, but manageable. Rachi sets up alongside it. Keldeo can break through +1 Reuniclus with Hydro Pump. Lando-T has EQ and U-Turn, but can’t stand up to boosted hits.
    • Offensive Trick Room - Very strong as it has great coverage against the team. Rachi is my best bet to set up a CM to tank a hit or two and damage or KO it. Otherwise, stall out TR and make sure I have Lando-T or Keldeo in at the end of TR.
    [​IMG] Haxorus:
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Band - Like most dragons, check with Lando-T’s Intimidate. If Scarf, Lando-T can stay in for EQ. If Band, Ferro and Rachi tank hits. Keldeo, Latias, and Politoed revenge Band sets.
    • Dragon Dance - Look to DD Dragonite. Hits slightly harder, but also frailer.
    • Double Dance - Depends on the boost it uses as Lando-T enters. If SD, tank Outrage with Ferro before revenging with Toed, Keldeo, or Latias. If DD, keep Lando-T in to KO.
    [​IMG] Ninetales:
    • Nasty Plot - Never faced one tbh. Toed revenges and takes away Sun. Latias has Psyshock and only fears the odd Dark Pulse or HP Ice. Keldeo outspeeds.
    • Choice Specs - Offensive Ninetales must not be common. Similar to NP, but Toed is more important to lower the immediate power.
    • Special Attacker - Tricky since it wastes no time and can switch moves. Latias tanks everything. Toed takes away power source. Keldeo outspeeds.
    [​IMG] Conkeldurr:
    • Bulk Up - Keldeo can break through and tank a +1 Mach Punch. Lando-T prevents the initial boost, but can’t stay in. Toed is similar to Keldeo.
    • Flame Orb + 3 Attacks - Lando-T is a bit better here due to lack of BU. Same as Latias. Otherwise, same as the BU set.
    [​IMG] Celebi:
    • Nasty Plot Sweeper - Half the team outspeeds. Latias is best though. One of the few times I wish I had Dragon Pulse.
    • Tinkerbell - Ferrothorn to scout how the opponent wants to play it. Lando-T can absorb T-Wave. Toed and Keldeo beat weakened ones.
    • Choice Scarf - Don’t think I’ve faced one. Latias is still awesome. Lack of recovery really hurts it, so just pound it with whoever is in unless they can’t take a hit (Toed and Keldeo)
    [​IMG] Terrakion:
    • Double Dance - Lando-T beats LO variants. Air Balloon ones force me to pivot around to Lando-T twice. Once to break the Balloon, and again to actually KO it. Latias outspeeds if it SDs. Rachi can tank a hit and retaliate if it RPs.
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Band - Scarf is beaten by Lando-T every time. Band is outsped by Latias and Toed. Latias takes anything but X-Scissor well enough.
    • Substitute + Swords Dance - Lando-T beats this set every time if I keep it healthy. If I’m not healthy enough to endure SE, then pivot to Ferro to tank it. Then back to Lando-T to finish it.
    [​IMG] Gyarados:
    • Offensive / Bulky Dragon Dance - Due to my lack in Jolteon or a Scarf Thunder abuser, this is actually quite threatening. One of the few physical attackers Lando-T can’t stay in on. No EQ or Bounce means Keldeo wins. Otherwise, it’s about crippling it to slow it down. Then Rachi has Thunder. Latias can maybe take a hit and come back with DM.
    • Choice Band / Choice Scarf - Ferro can tank hits from the Band set. It walls the Scarf set and slows it down. Rachi and Keldeo outspeed and OHKO Banded variants. Latias can tank a hit or two from Scarf sets.
    [​IMG] Gengar:
    • Substitute + Disable / Pain Split - SubDisable is fun to play against. Switch around until Jirachi or Politoed is there. Then setup a little or take it down outright. Toed beats Pain Split. Keldeo can tank a hit (albeit not well) and strike back.
    [​IMG] Starmie:
    • Life Orb - Ferro can take anything it offers and punishes Rapid Spin with Iron Barbs. Toed revenges. Latias can tank a hit.
    • Rapid Spin - More emphasis on Ferro here. Coverage move leaves it walled completely by an offensive Poke. Keldeo and Toed are safe if no Tbolt. Latias can handle it if there’s no Ice Beam.
    • Choice Specs - Hits harder but Ferro still handles it well. Toed can still revenge it and doesn’t mind Trick.
    [​IMG] Landorus:
    • Rock Polish / Swords Dance - Latias in the case of both. Can tank a hit from RP sets and outspeeds SD sets. Surf destroys both. Toed revenges SD sets. Lando-T makes either set easier to take on, but can‘t counter it himself.
    • Choice Scarf - Hard to switch into now due to U-Turn. Ferro can punish this. Lando-T laughs at anything but HP Ice. Keldeo resists all but EQ.
    • Substitute + 3 Attacks - Latias can take a hit. Keldeo and Toed outspeed. Toed takes hits better due to removing Sand for Rain. Lando-T can Intimidate before the Sub.
    [​IMG] Infernape:
    • Mixed Attacker - Rain team, so Infernape isn’t too terribly difficult. Latias takes anything but U-Turn. Lando-T the same, but loses to HP Ice. Keldeo forces a Speed tie. Rachi can take a hit in the rain. Toed revenges.
    • Nasty Plot / Swords Dance Booster - Latias auto-wins on NP and usually wins against SD. Lando-T beats SD in the rain handily.
    • Choice Band - Hits like a truck, but Latias resists both STABs and has Recover. Lando-T cushions the blows against it. Toed can revenge, but can’t switch-in.
    [​IMG] Volcarona:
    • Offensive Quiver Dance - If it has Giga Drain and it sets up, I’m pretty much done. Only hope is paralysis from Rachi if it somehow lives Fire Blast. Without Giga Drain, Keldeo needs to hit it immediately.
    • Bulky Quiver Dance - Much harder to kill now with Roost. Not as strong off the bat though, so Keldeo and Toed can usually tank hits. No Giga Drain means Keldeo resists both STABs. Lando-T actually tanks hits from this one.
    • Chesto Rest - Luckily I don’t rely on status, but damn this thing hurts. Keldeo needs to be in decent health to tank Bug Buzz.
    • Substitute - If SR is up, just attack with whatever’s out there. That’s the basic idea with all sets, but this one especially. Once under 25%, it’s just an inferior Offensive set with no healing move or coverage move. Ergo, Keldeo is the switch-in once Sub is gone or unable to be made.
    [​IMG] Magnezone:
    • Substitute - Ferro can easily lure this hunk of metal out. Rachi can actually set up on these to an extent. Lando-T makes it plunge into next year. Toed, Keldeo, and Latias outspeed. Latias resists Electric and Fire.
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Specs -Latias handles these usually. Specs HP Ice hurts, but otherwise, she’s safe. Lol, Toed outspeeds a Scarfer. That’s when you know something is slow. Specs is special version of Scizor…minus the defensive typing.
    [​IMG] Espeon:
    • Calm Mind - Like a mini CM Latios. Rachi sets up alongside it and usually wins due to neutral STAB and Sub. Ferro can just smash it with Power Whip if Espy tries to prevent hazards.
    • Bulky Sun Attacker / Passer - Harder to counter directly due to a possible BP. Best bet is to let Rachi set up alongside so I can hopefully beat the intended recipient.
    [​IMG] Salamence:
    • Dragon Dance - Lando-T usually wins unless it carries Aqua Tail on a rain team. (super rare because people seem to forget Mence gets Aqua Tail via BW2 tutor) Ferro would then tank hits from this setup.
    • Mixed - Scary. Think Hydreigon, only easier due to SR weakness and lack of recovery (for Moxie variants) Rachi and Ferro tank DM. Toed and Keldeo take the likely Ground / Fighting move and KO then. Latias outspeeds as well.
    • Defensive - Does anyone use this? Honestly never seen it in action. Imagine that Latias, Keldeo, Rachi, and Toed can deal with it accordingly.
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Band - Lando-T beats Scarfed ones by himself. Lowers the power of Band sets for Ferro and Rachi to better take. Latias, Keldeo, and Toed revenge Banded sets.
    [​IMG] Hydreigon:
    • Offensive - Scary, especially on sun teams with pseudo-STAB on Fire Blast. Rachi can lure Fire Blast for Toed or Keldeo to get in on. Ferro and Rachi tank DM. Latias outspeeds, but can’t risk a switch-in.
    • Choice Specs / Choice Scarf - Specs is a stronger, less scary version of LO. Can’t switch moves, so it’s pretty easy to predict the forced move. Scarf is much faster and harder to deal with due to sheer Speed. Still, I play against it similarly to the Specs set. Use resistances to come in on obvious moves (like DM against Latias or Fire Blast on Ferro)
    • Substitute - Something’s dying if it gets a Sub up. Plain and simple. You can’t switch to your counter if Hydra has a Sub up. Keldeo and Toed outspeed, live a hit, and KO. Otherwise, something has to go down to prevent catastrophic damage.
    [​IMG] Breloom:
    • Techniloom - Let something go to sleep. Toed is usually the choice unless Loom is on a Sand or Sun team. Lando-T softens hits. Latias outspeeds and resists both STABs. Keldeo and Toed can revenge, but Mach Punch does a good amount.
    • Choice Band - Hurts like hell. Luckily, slow and rarely carries Spore. Toed is still the first switch to guard against Spore. Generally the same stuff beats CB Loom. Low Sweep hurts Latias and maims Keldeo and Toed. Lando-T is much better here.
    • Sub Punch - Latias walls it. Once something is asleep, she can keep coming in and take little damage. Lando-T also fares very well. Toed and Keldeo revenge much more safely due to lack of Mach Punch
    [​IMG] Latias:
    • Calm Mind - Mono-attacking ones with Refresh can go die in a fire. One of the few things that can very easily beat my team, but most carry coverage or Roar, so meh. Without Refresh or Sub, Ferro can cripple with paralysis and use Leech Seed. After that, Lando-T can smack it hard with U-Turn and SE.
    • Offensive Tank - Slower than mine, but also stronger. Keldeo outspeeds the current on-site spread, so pure powah. Toed revenges weakened ones. Mine outspeeds.
    • Choice Specs - Ferro makes it helpless. Rachi only minds Surf. Trick sucks, but that won’t really help it get past Ferro or Rachi.
    [​IMG] Toxicroak:
    • Swords Dance - Lando-T checks. Then play the pivot game until Latias is out there. Latias can tank +1 Sucker Punch and KO. Rachi plays mind games with it between Subbing, boosting, and attacking.
    • Bulk Up - Latias is even safer here. Lando-T still checks with Intimidate. Rachi boosts alongside more effectively
    [​IMG] Lucario:
    • Swords Dance - Lando-T beats those without Ice Punch. Latias can tank an Espeed. Rachi resists Espeed and outspeeds.
    • Nasty Plot - Haven’t seen any in BW2, but Latias would be good against it. Keldeo has an easier time taking Vacuum Wave as does Toed.
    [​IMG] Virizion:
    • Calm Mind - Latias, my hero. Without Latias, Virizion would threaten to lay waste to this team.
    • Swords Dance - Latias again. She still beats up on Virizion pretty badly. Easier to revenge than CM is due to CC defense drops.
    [​IMG] Scrafty:
    • Dragon Dance - Overpowered by Keldeo and Politoed. Lando-T cushions the blows as with most other physical attackers.
    • Bulk Up - So damn slow, it’s barely funny. Everything but Ferro outspeeds. Keldeo still blasts through it and doesn’t have to worry about tanking a hit this time.
    [​IMG] Venusaur:
    • Special Growth - Walled by Latias without Sludge Bomb. Walled by Ferro without HP Fire. Latias can tank +0 Modest LO Sludge Bomb and KO back in a pinch. Toed revenges, but needs it weakened a little.
    • Mixed Growth - Similar issues to the Special Growth set.. Latias hard walls those who choose EQ over Return. Lando-T makes it easier for Latias to handle said Returns. Toed still revenges.
    • SubSeed - Spikes fodder for Ferro, but it can’t do any damage directly. Latias forces it out without a Sub. Toed can revenge weakened ones.
    [​IMG] Metagross:
    • Stealth Rock - Lando-T says it’s better. Well, it is. Beats this set rather handily. Toed and Keldeo resist STABs and hit back hard.
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Band - Lol, Toed outspeeds with a Scarf. Also takes anything on the set. Lando-T hates Ice Punch, but can EQ on any other move. Band sets are outsped by….everything with Speed on this team. Lando-T, Keldeo, and Toed are most effective at KOing, however.
    • Agility - Coverage makes this tricky until the 4th move is revealed. No T-Punch means Keldeo and Toed are safe. No Ice Punch means Lando-T is safe.
    [​IMG] Mienshao:
    • All-Out Attacker - Lando-T to tank Fake Out, then Toed on HP Ice. Toed then kills before Shao gets out. Keldeo can do the same as Toed. Latias can’t take HP Ice as well, but is never KOed by it.
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Band - Scarf loses to Latias, even with U-Turn thanks to Recover. Band hurts a lot more, but Keldeo, Toed, and Latias outspeed. Lando-T can cushion hits on either set that aren’t HP Ices.
    [​IMG] Cloyster:
    • Shell Smash - Ferro can tank anything and paralyze / KO with Power Whip. Rachi resists both multi-hit moves. Loathes Water moves however…
    • Utility - Laughably frail on the special side. Can’t even come on in Scarf Toed. Spinning is fine (but annoying) since both my hazard setters hang around, even after their hazards are set.
    [​IMG] Mamoswine:
    • Physical Attacker - Ferro takes anything but Superpower. Latias can actually take LO Ice Shard and KO back. Keldeo and Toed both outspeed and resist Ice Shard. Rachi has Flash Cannon in a pinch, but EQ decimates it.
    [​IMG] Darmanitan:
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Band - Toed and Lando-T. Toed brings rain back to insta-nerf Flare Blitz. Lando-T also nerfs Flare Blitz, but not as badly as rain does.
    [​IMG] Tornadus-T:
    • Life Orb - Jirachi needs to stay alive at all costs. Toed can surprise one. Latias can tank a Hurricane as can Ferrothorn, but that blasted confusion chance… Ferro hates Superpower though.
    • Choice Specs - Hits harder, but can’t switch moves. Safe bet Hurricane will always come from this one. Rachi still takes them, but Latias needs much more health now.
    [​IMG] Abomasnow:
    • Choice Scarf - Rachi resists both STABs. Keldeo takes anything but Grass moves. Same for Toed. Ferro only minds HP Fire and can cripple with T-Wave.
    • SubSeed - Rachi cockblocks SubSeed with its own Sub. Ferro makes it Spikes fodder for a turn or two. Keldeo can outspeed, but needs there to be no Sub upon entry.
    • Mixed Attacker - NO EQ or Scarf means Jirachi is generally safe. Can take HP Fire if needed. Keldeo outspeeds and resists everything but Wood Hammer.
    [​IMG] Alakazam:
    • Substitute + 3 Attacks - Toed revenges. Rachi can take a couple of hits and take it out. Lando-T can tank non-LO Psychic and hit back hard.
    • Offensive Calm Mind - Lando-T has U-Turn. Toed revenges. Rachi can boost up with it. Wins much like the case is with Espeon if Zam lacks HP Fire.
    • Focus Sash -Lando-T is generally safer. Rachi takes hits better and can usually boost up once before needing to attack.
    [​IMG] Azelf:
    • Dual Screens - Stall out the Screens. Lando-T can setup SR as Zelf does. Best way to counter is just to stall out the screens and make sure I have a strong attacker in when Screens fade.
    • Lead - Lando-T U-Turns to Toed who wins handily. Hard to “counter” in the sense that its job is to get SR down and die and nothing on my team spins.
    • Nasty Plot - Coverage makes this thing a bitch to deal with. Toed revenges. Latias can take anything bar a rare Shadow Ball.
    • Choice Band - Lando-T checks but can’t stay in due to Ice Punch. Rachi and Ferro only worry about Fire Punch. Latias takes anything but Ice Punch. Toed revenges.
    [​IMG] Azumarill:
    • Choice Band - Keldeo, Toed, and Latias outspeed and resist Aqua Jet. Ferro only cares about Superpower.
    [​IMG] Deoxys-D:
    • Fast Spiker - Lead with Lando-T and U-Turn to Toed. H-Pump should take it from there. Limit’s the damage to just SR (unless it Taunts Lando-T, in which case I’m free of hazards)
    [​IMG] Dugtrio:
    • Focus Sash - Not very effective against this team. All grounded team members have ways of beating it. Toed surprises with Scarf. Rachi wins if behind a Sub. Ferro is bulky as hell for Dugtrio offensive standards. Keldeo….lol. Lando-T has EQ. Latias has Surf.
    • Choice Band - Same ways of beating the Sash variant apply here. Sucker Punch hurts more
    [​IMG] Kingdra:
    • Dragon Dance - Ferro is switch-in #1. Walls everything Kingdra can hope to throw at it and slowly KOes with Power Whip.
    • Rain Dance - Ferro again. Still walls everything Kingdra is going to use here.
    • Choice Specs - Ferro, Ferro, Ferro. That’s the trend here. Rachi tanks Dragon moves while everything else bar Lando-T tanks Water moves.
    [​IMG] Kyurem:
    • Sub Roost - Keldeo is the best answer. Neutral to everything at worst while having SS to KO. Latias is faster.
    [​IMG] Victini:
    • Choice Band / Scarf - Toed makes V-create pathetically weak comparatively in rain. Also outspeeds after Speed drop. Latias and Keldeo also resist V-create. Lando-T has Intimidate.
    • Physical Attacker - Generally the same as Choiced sets
    [​IMG] Stoutland:
    • Choice Band - Lando-T. Only cares about Ice Fang, Intimidate drops Attack, and has EQ. Ferro resists all but Fire Fang and Superpower. Toed takes weather away and revenges.
    [​IMG] Sharpedo:
    • Speed Boost - Ferro resists both STABs. Rachi can take a hit and KO back. Keldeo resists both STABs and generally doesn’t care about Sharpedo’s coverage move(s) of choice.

    Standard OU Defensive Threats

    [​IMG] Tyranitar:
    • Specially Defensive - Keldeo dgaf about anything on this set except for maybe Superpower. Lando-T can’t resist Ttar’s STABs, but has more bulk than Keldeo. Toed has an easier time coming in on this one.
    [​IMG] Rotom-W:
    • Standard - Latias can take anything. Won’t like WoW, but she prefers it over poison or paralysis. Ferro hates burns more, but resists both STABs like Latias.
    [​IMG] Ferrothorn:
    • Standard - A royal pain in the ass. I have a grand total of 2 SE moves on it. Toed can effectively lure it in with Focus Miss. They can generally be played around by hitting them as hard as possible as they switch in and then deny Leech Seed with my own Ferro. Rachi can setup if it’s not hit with LS or T-Wave on the switch.
    [​IMG] Politoed:
    • Defensive - Ferro shits on it all day and night. Keldeo runs through it rather decisively. Latias can do some serious damage to it as well though Ice Beam could sting a bit.
    [​IMG] Gliscor:
    • Swords Dance - Can’t really find the time to setup except against Ferro. Lando-T cuts the boost it gets. Toed, Latias, and Keldeo outspeed and can tank some hits.
    • Substitute + Protect - Hard to prevent it from poisoning something, but as long as I can get free switches on Protect, I’m fine. Latias, Toed, and Keldeo push through this one easily.
    • Defensive - Same as the above.
    [​IMG] Heatran:
    • Specially Defensive - Kind of a liability against rain teams. Keldeo destroys it. Toed blasts it. Lando-T just lols at it while Rachi beats it in last Pokemon scenarios. Also beats variants without Roar in any condition.
    [​IMG] Jirachi:
    • Specially Defensive - My credo is: When you see Jirachi, be prepared for hax. It’s just going to happen, whether you like it or not. Lando-T and Ferro wall off this set rather handily, but the flinching sucks. Keldeo can break through most while my own Jirachi sets up on it with relative ease.
    [​IMG] Skarmory:
    • Physically Defensive Spiker - Latias can beat it as Surf 2HKOs. Ferro sets up Spikes alongside. Toed and Keldeo just blast through it. Rachi wins in last Pokemon situations. Otherwise, just use Thunder since WW is obvious.
    • Specially Defensive Spiker - Same as above, minus Latias.
    [​IMG] Ninetales:
    • Specially Defensive - Latias shits on it unless Toxic. Lando-T can actually live a hit in Sun and KO back. Keldeo still has a STAB on it. Toed can revenge kill and replace Sun with Rain.
    [​IMG] Celebi:
    • Physically Defensive - Lando-T makes it a liability quick with U-Turn. Blocks T-Wave, can tank unboosted Giga Drains, and destroys. Ferro makes it Spikes fodder without HP Fire.
    [​IMG] Forretress:
    • Physically Defensive Spiker - Same as Physically Defensive Skarmory. Rachi has an easier time setting up.
    • Specially Defensive Spiker - Same as SpD Skarmory, plus Lando-T
    [​IMG] Gyarados:
    • RestTalk - Keldeo has HP Electric. Otherwise, LS keeps everything in good health as its phazed in. Rachi has Thunder once it gets in.
    [​IMG] Jellicent:
    • Utility Counter - Another royal pain in the ass. One of the reasons I’ve really considered Toxic on Scarf Toed since HP Grass does a pathetic 32% at max. Rachi can slowly setup on it, but rain makes it naturally harder. Usually have to risk a Scald burn to get the first boost without the Sub getting broken.
    [​IMG] Tentacruel:
    • Toxic Spikes - 2 Steel types, a Flying type, and a Levitator. My 2 grounded Pokes are choiced and won’t stay in but for 2 or 3 turns max in most cases. So idgaf about Tspikes. Latias has Psyshock on it. Rachi can slowly boost up on it.
    [​IMG] Gastrodon:
    • Tank - Ferro walls it all day and has Power Whip. Toed’s HP Grass 2HKOs at best…another sign of how damn weak that move is. It’s 4x SE for crying out loud! Keldeo can lure and 2HKO with SS.
    [​IMG] Espeon:
    • Dual Screens - Stall out Screens and have something offensive at the ready when they burn out.
    [​IMG] Blissey:
    • Support - Keldeo and Ferrothorn generally don’t care about what Blissey has to offer. Rachi slowly sets up on it.
    [​IMG] Vaporeon:
    • Wish Support - Ferrothorn just shits on it. Keldeo can beat it if need be.
    [​IMG] Latias:
    • Support - Ferro counters for days. Those without Roar are setup fodder for Rachi. Lando-T can leave one severly weakened for Toed.
    [​IMG] Mew:
    • Stallbreaker - Keldeo muscles through it. Rachi sets up on it, albeit very slowly due to Taunt.
    [​IMG] Slowbro:
    • Tank -Actually 2HKO’d by Keldeo’s H-Pump. Told you that move was strong. Ferro makes it Spikes fodder.
    [​IMG] Deoxys-D:
    • Bulky Spiker - Annoying, but not overly threatening unless Keldeo starts missing H-Pumps. Thanks to the Suicide Spiker set, this isn’t very common.
    [​IMG] Hippowdon:
    • Physical Tank - Keldeo destroys, even in Sand. Ferro gets Spikes fodder in Hippo. Toed replaces Sand and KOs handily. Latias generally fares well too.
    [​IMG] Xatu:
    • Standard - When I don’t forget it can have Heat Wave on Sun teams, I’m fine. Toed has Ice Beam, Lando-T blocks T-Wave and has SE. Keldeo powers past.
    • Dual Screens - Rachi has a field day with this one. Sets up at will due to lack of T-Wave or Heat Wave.
    [​IMG] Wobbuffet:
    • Bulky - Hard to “counter” since it’s usually there to take something specific out. Keldeo muscles past with H-Pump. Lando-T can finish it off if one is weakened.
    [​IMG] Porygon2:
    • Defensive - Keldeo scares it shitless. Toed can power past. Ferro uses it as Spikes fodder. Rachi sets up on those that run Discharge.
    [​IMG] Chansey:
    • Support - Screams Spikes and LS fodder to Ferro. Keldeo has SS. Rachi can setup on it.


    Color coding for more dangerous sets will have to wait. (if it's needed at all) Tired and need sleep lol. Hopefully the tone I come across will be good enough until morning.​
  3. inanimate blob

    inanimate blob

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    1,453
    I noticed a lack of any efficient phazer on your team, and it seems like set-up Pokèmon could easily come in and wreck crap, such as Cloyster or Volcarona. I recommend, on Politoed, switching HP Grass to Perish Song while keeping the Choice Scarf. This way, Politoed can retain its speed boost and become an effective "revenge killer", so to speak with Perish Song. The rest of the team looks great, bee-tee-dubs.

    In conclusion, HP Grass -> Perish Song
  4. Jimbon

    Jimbon fools and worthless liars
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
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    Hi there!

    This is a really solid Rain Team, with very few exploitable weaknesses, congrats! I like how Ferrothorn buffers the hits of offensive powerhouses and cripples them, making them easier for Keldeo and Jirachi. One problem I do see is a weakness to Sub Calm Mind Jirachi, who can switch in on Keldeo and Politoed locked into Icy Wind or Ice Beam respectively. Jirachi can also switch in on Latias after a Draco Meteor, or when it is forced to recover, while Substituting against Ferrothorn and Calm Minding up whilst avoiding Thunder Wave. Not to mention it also outspeeds your Landorus and can deal huge amounts of damage with Water Pulse. To help with this weakness, I would definitely recommend trying out Bulldoze > Spikes on Ferrothorn. Given the offensive nature of your team, it doesn't seem to me that Spikes is all that necessary. While extra damage is appreciated, there are very few things that can switch in on Specs Keldeo after Stealth Rock and avoid the 2HKO, same thing applies for your Politoed. Bulldoze allows you to hit Sub Calm Mind Rachi, breaking it's Substitute and ultimately stopping it from setting up. Given that Ferrothorn walls Sub Calm Mind Jirachi without any Calm Minds up, it stops it dead putting less pressure on your team. Not to mention the fact that Ferrothorn does look like your main defensive wall, resisting Keldeo's and Politoed's weaknesses. Trappers such as Magnezone and Magneton will have no problem switching in and 2HKOing you in Rain, losing your defensive wall very easily. Bulldoze allows you to hit these trappers, saving your Ferrothorn, meaning you can survive more hits aimed at your sweepers. It also means you can beat these trappers without having to use Shed Shell and lose important important Leftovers recovery. Bulldoze is also great against Tentacruel who easily Spins away your hazards, and does look pretty annoying to face when Latias is down. I'd also recommend changing your Ferrothorn's EV spread to 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef. This spread optimizes bulk in both defences, making it a lot more efficient than your previous set, and overall it allows you to take hits better.

    I also agree with ThatsMyLatios's suggestion of Expert Belt > Choice Specs on Keldeo. There's really nothing you miss the 2HKO / OHKO on that is important, while you still bluff the Choice Specs and retain offensive power. More importantly, you keep the ability to hit foes on both sides of the spectrum, a nightmare for common Stall Cores.

    Cool team, hope I helped!
  5. EonX

    EonX Wiseman Eon
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,568
    Thanks for the rates everyone. Spent the better part of the early afternoon testing them out, and here's the breakdown:

    Perish Song: Haven't had to use it yet, but I haven't missed HP Grass either. So, Perish Song will likely stay for the time being.

    Keldeo's item: Switched it to a Life Orb (haven't tested Expert Belt yet) and it's been just fine so far. Decided to switch to HP Ghost and run Surf over Icy Wind to take a little more advantage of being able to change moves and select power or accuracy based on the situation.

    SpD Jirachi: So far, a good move. Paralysis is really nice and helps Keldeo clean up late-game. Wish is definitely helpful to Lando-T and heightens the longevity of everything. So far, no drawbacks. Running U-Turn in the last slot. Would Fire Punch be better, even in rain?

    EV Spread and Bulldoze: The switch to SpDef Jirachi made the EV change much easier to make, so this is a done deal if I keep SpD Jirachi. As for Bulldoze, it was instantly useful. First team I faced after making the changes had a Magnezone in it. The lack of Spikes hasn't been quite as bad as I thought it would be, which brings me to something I did to Latias to help make up for the loss of Spikes:

    And with that, I've been running a more offensive spread on Latias in order to compensate for the lack of Spikes. Now with Life Orb and 44 HP / 212 Spec Attack / 252 Speed spread. Same nature and moves. Still able to take most of the hits she used to and now never fails to OHKO Keldeo, no matter what. (212 Spec Attack EVs is the benchmark for this) Still tinkering with it, but I'm pretty sure more of an offensive spread will be needed for her if I forego Spikes in the end (which I"m really leaning toward atm)

    Anyway, keep the rates coming. They've been really helpful thus far, so thanks!
  6. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown in other words...
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2011
    Messages:
    1,438
    Hey,

    Your team looks pretty solid without many things to fix, but as some users have mentioned, you're slightly weak to opposing SubCM Jirachi. While the SpD Jirachi suggestion is good, I reckon your team is losing a lot of assets against stall teams with the Keldeo/Jirachi changes, as they were your main ways of defeating defensive teams. Something you could try to make Jirachi able to take hits, support the team and sweep at the same time is using a Wish + Calm Mind Jirachi. As I said, it can both take hits from opponents like Latios while helping his teammate with Wish, but while being able to set up and break teams if the occasion arises, and it can beat opposing SubCM Jirachi thanks to Wish, too, thus allowing you to remove Bulldoze on Ferrothorn (speaking of that, 0 Atk EVs Ferrothorn Bulldoze doesn't break Jirachi's substitutes, so it isn't a good check). Here's the set:

    Jirachi@Leftovers | Serene Grace
    Bold Nature | 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spe
    Wish / Calm Mind / Thunder / Flash Cannon


    Regarding Politoed, you could try using Encore (or/and Toxic to deal with Jellicent / Gastrodon, helping Keldeo's job) over Perish Song and maybe Focus Blast (I'm not sure about how much do you use that move, but it's generally used almost never). Encore is generally better on Scarf Politoed because unlike Perish Song, it can force out pokemon like Gyarados directly (as with Perish Song, they can spam boosted attacks during 3 turns, while Encore + switching to the appropiate pokemon simply forces them to switch out or die). Encore helps with other stuff like Keldeo and even Latias, as (again) they are forced out due to Encore.

    Hope I helped!

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