What aren't we writing about? (Pokemon unfit for OU Analyses)

i am bored so here an argument.

Altaria normally an out class dragon.however it gain
something from this gen. a buff up cotton guard,
and Dw ability:cloud nine.
with that in mind he might be able
to stall most type of weather
with toxic, roost, and cotton guard
(back up with flamethrower or another move.)
even if you don't get cloud nine you can
get tailwind and heal bell making it good support.
I mean there are better dragon but now Altaria has
a few thing that the other dragons don't.

How did I get a box?
 

AccidentalGreed

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i am bored so here an argument.

Altaria normally an out class dragon.however it gain
something from this gen. a buff up cotton guard,
and Dw ability:cloud nine.
with that in mind he might be able
to stall most type of weather
with toxic, roost, and cotton guard
(back up with flamethrower or another move.)
even if you don't get cloud nine you can
get tailwind and heal bell making it good support.
I mean there are better dragon but now Altaria has
a few thing that the other dragons don't.

How did I get a box?
Aside from grammar and spelling, Altaria is still an outclassed Dragon-type Pokemon. I could come up with many reasons right here to not use Altaria in place of other Dragon-types or other support Pokemon, but many others have tried before you, and Altaria's been rejected or denounced in those instances. Look them up. Sure, Altaria has a few things that others don't, but at that point, you're supporting the usefulness of things like Normalize Thunder Wave Delcatty.

Will there be other opinions on Donphan...
 

Seven Deadly Sins

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Will there be other opinions on Donphan...
I actually was talking to Eo about this a day or two ago, and he's convinced me for the following reasons:

  • SR resistant spinning is neat
  • 90/120 defense makes it possible to absorb hits from nasty stuff like Excadrill and hit back hard.
  • Sturdy is neat
  • Donphan sees use on Sun teams as a spinner that benefits from having its Water weakness negated
  • 120 Attack and STAB EQ makes Donphan a non-negligible offensive threat

So yeah, Donphan looks pretty okay.
 
What about musharna? It has great defences, has acess to calm mind and barrier to boost those defenceseven further, stored power to take advantage yet again of the boosts, and to top it off is has baton pass. Analysis?
 

AccidentalGreed

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What about musharna? It has great defences, has acess to calm mind and barrier to boost those defenceseven further, stored power to take advantage yet again of the boosts, and to top it off is has baton pass. Analysis?
Not when Mew outclasses Musharna in almost every aspect in terms of Baton Passing in OU. Even Stored Power won't really differentiate Musharna from similar Passers, since, well, its purpose is to supposedly pass boosts to another target and not attack. Mew can also pass Calm Mind, Amnesia, and Barrier.
 
This is my first post and I am not really an expert in the metagame, but:

Medicham should not be on this list. It reaches 480 attack (48 points more than haxorus) and with a choice scarf it outspeeds just enough to sweep with a 130bp STAB. It also has just enough bulk to not be KOed by weaker neutral/priority attacks. The elemental punches, rock slide and zen headbutt provide coverage to predict and beat its main counters (gliscor, slowbro, ghosts).

I can provide logs of medicham sweeping entire teams, as even the more frail fighting resists (the genies, latios, sometimes latias) are 2HKOd by HJK.
I tried it and liked it :heart:
 
This is my first post and I am not really an expert in the metagame, but:

Medicham should not be on this list. It reaches 480 attack (48 points more than haxorus) and with a choice scarf it outspeeds just enough to sweep with a 130bp STAB. It also has just enough bulk to not be KOed by weaker neutral/priority attacks. The elemental punches, rock slide and zen headbutt provide coverage to predict and beat its main counters (gliscor, slowbro, ghosts).

I can provide logs of medicham sweeping entire teams, as even the more frail fighting resists (the genies, latios, sometimes latias) are 2HKOd by HJK.
I tried it and liked it :heart:
Hi and welcome to Smogon. Before asking for a Pokemon to be removed from this list, I'd highly suggest you search the "Locked/Outdated Analyses" forum as well as this thread for the Pokemon in question. Medicham has been brought up a few times in this thread, but was deemed to be an inferior Fighting-type when compared to the Pokemon already usable in OU. Choice Band Terrakion and Mienshao are prime examples of said Fighting-types. Terrakion has enough bulk to risk a misplay and a pretty good second STAB to maim Ghost-types with. Mienshao sort of falls in the same boat thanks to Regeneration, U-turn, and a much more diverse movepool. Pure Power is great and all, but switching Medicham in is the main problem that people are going to face when using it, because Fighting/Psychic typing with 60/75 defenses doesn't exactly equate to comfortable switches.
--------------------------------------------
Also, what became of Crawdaunt? After testing out Specs Jellicent earlier (very, VERY fun to use, btw), my thoughts shifted to other Pokemon who function very well as wallbreakers and lures on Drizzle teams. Then, I remembered SJC's post about Crawdaunt a while back; the support for and arguments against Crawdaunt were a little meh, so I had a few second thoughts about it. Crawdaunt works as pretty good lure for Ferrothorn (2HKOing the standard 48 Def variant most of the time with Spikes support or a little residual damage), Gastrodon, Lati@s, and opposing weather starters with just its STAB, meaning that it doesn't have to worry about having 4MS. I don't recall ever seeing Crawdaunt rejected, and when I searched the thread, only found a few posts regarding it (again, pretty weak and vague arguments).

Eh, I'm just gonna stick my neck out and ask if Crawdaunt could be removed from this list. It can lure in the most common and best checks to rain, either severely damaging them or KOing them outright while maintaining utility as a pretty good offensive pivot for Drizzle teams. Some can argue that Tornadus does that task pretty well, but there's huge difference between the two Pokemon - Tornadus's main STAB is reliant on rain being up while Crawdaunt's aren't. Tornadus's moveset is also telegraphed and thus can be played around with ease, with a bit of luck of course (confusion). Crawdaunt on the other hand, can simply alternate between its STAB in order to break down the opposing team. I don't see why so many people bashed on Crawdaunt's bulk, either. Tornadus and Thundurus are a pain to reliably switch in as well due to the prevalence of Stealth Rock in this metagame and their defensive capabilities (hell, even resisted attacks can do 30%~ to the both of them). Crawdaunt can at least switch into Jirachi (Iron Head arguments? Fuck off), Reuniclus, Latias - defensive mons' in general - and fire off one of its STABs. As mentioned before, Crawdaunt only has to use its STABs to break down opposing teams, leaving it with two moveslots that can be filled with the player's choice of coverage attacks. Crawdaunt has access to Superpower and Rock Slide to cover any remaining threats, Waterfall to work as a more reliable Water STAB and Body Slam (situational) to help with Crawdaunt's speed problem. Crawdaunt's low HP stat also makes him an ideal candidate for Wish passing (Jirachi with U-turn immediately comes to mind as a partner), at least giving him a solid option for healing.

Without Swift Swim available, Drizzle teams (rain stall, especially) don't pack as much of a punch as they did earlier in the metagame. Crawdaunt can help remedy that problem by punching holes in the opposition, softening them up for a late game sweep by the hands of Starmie, Rotom-W, Tornadus, etc; he can assist rain stall by preventing threats such as Tentacruel, Jellicent and Ferrothorn from switching in too often.
 
Hi and welcome to Smogon. Before asking for a Pokemon to be removed from this list, I'd highly suggest you search the "Locked/Outdated Analyses" forum as well as this thread for the Pokemon in question. Medicham has been brought up a few times in this thread, but was deemed to be an inferior Fighting-type when compared to the Pokemon already usable in OU. Choice Band Terrakion and Mienshao are prime examples of said Fighting-types. Terrakion has enough bulk to risk a misplay and a pretty good second STAB to maim Ghost-types with. Mienshao sort of falls in the same boat thanks to Regeneration, U-turn, and a much more diverse movepool. Pure Power is great and all, but switching Medicham in is the main problem that people are going to face when using it, because Fighting/Psychic typing with 60/75 defenses doesn't exactly equate to comfortable switches.
I could'nt find it in the archive and did not want to read 40 pages of this thread, but will do so now.

While this may be a lost cause, let me throw in some numbers:
Jolly CB terrakion has 535 Atk and 346 Spe
Adamant Medicham has 480 Atk with a slightly stronger STAB, up to 426 Spe and is very hard to stop with common priority attacks.
I am fully aware that every set not carrying a scarf is outclassed by other fighters, but the scarf set is not. I also accept that switching medi in is difficult (although it can take some weaker/resisted stray attacks), but that is true for other scarfers as well, working more as a revenge killer.

Maybe at least give it a try!
 
At the top of this page, there's a tab that says "Search this thread". Click on the arrow and type in "Medicham".
I could'nt find it in the archive and did not want to read 40 pages of this thread, but will do so now.

While this may be a lost cause, let me throw in some numbers:
Jolly CB terrakion has 535 Atk and 346 Spe
Adamant Medicham has 480 Atk with a slightly stronger STAB, up to 426 Spe and is very hard to stop with common priority attacks.
I am fully aware that every set not carrying a scarf is outclassed by other fighters, but the scarf set is not. I also accept that switching medi in is difficult (although it can take some weaker/resisted stray attacks), but that is true for other scarfers as well, working more as a revenge killer.

Maybe at least give it a try!
I've given Choice Scarf, LO, SubPunch, and Choice Band Medicham several tries already. The problem is that the extra speed is almost useless once you consider the amount of notable (common) Pokemon that Medicham outpaces with a Scarf. Once again, Mienshao has the upper hand here thanks to Regenerator, as it can afford a misprediction. Sure, 2HKOing Skarmory is awesome and all, but no player will be dumb enough to leave Skarmory in on a choice-locked Pokemon, not to mention that Skarmory won't always be the first Pokemon that switches in. You have to to consider that no competent player will ONLY have Skarmory as their check to physical threats. Gliscor, Hippowdon, Latias, Reuniclus, and Jellicent are examples of common Pokemon who can be and are used for checking Fighting-types and physical threats in general. Once you finally get Medicham in, you'll have to worry about what your opponent fears the most and wants to do. If you misplay and Medicham ends up locking itself into an attack that's asking to get set up on (Ice Punch, Psycho Cut, etc), then you'll have to switch out and go through the trouble of switching Medicham in safely, again.

If wallbreaking is the argument that you're trying to make for Medicham then sorry to say (and not to be an ass), but there are just so many better options to choose from. Haxorus for example can run a Choice Scarf as well and hammer away at everything with its STAB Outrage which, unlike Hi Jump Kick, has no immunities to worry about. You're trying to make an argument for a Pokemon that relies mostly on prediction in order to stay alive. I could make the same argument for Regigigas, Slaking, and Rampardos - would that make them any less bad than they are now? Of course not. They're bad Pokemon because of their abilities and lack of bulk / speed in the latter's case. Medicham, no matter how much anyone will try to argue for its sake, will always remain outclassed as a wallbreaker and revenge killer because it relies too much on its opponent's next move in order to stay alive. For a better explanation - Haxorus, Rhyperior, Darmanitan, Victini, Dragonite, Terrakion - all these Pokemon have to do is simply spam their STAB if they get the green light in team preview. If any of them mispredict, they have the bulk and typing capable of switching in more than once and redeeming themselves.

"Mindless spam" is better left to Pokemon who either don't really care about making a bad prediction or Pokemon who have to tools to make up for it.
 
Zebstrika gets electric/fire coverage and lightningrod gives it a way to boost it's special attack so it could run a mixed set. It can also use Volt Switch to scout and as a filler.
 

AccidentalGreed

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Zebstrika gets electric/fire coverage and lightningrod gives it a way to boost it's special attack so it could run a mixed set. It can also use Volt Switch to scout and as a filler.
It's not much better than your typical electric-type special attacker. If you used it in battle, you wish you had Jolteon or Raikou because they can afford to use some coverage choices, unlike Zebstrika who relies entirely on a lone physical move and special moves off his low Special Attack.
 
I've used Feraligatr for a lot of time with the following set:

Item: Life Orb
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Def
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Jet
- Superpower
- Crunch

Under Drizzle, this thing is a monster. Aqua Jet reaches impressive levels, allowing you to sweep the opposition with ease once Rotom-W is weakened - and with weakened I mean around 30%, or even around 45% if you're in Torrent range. With SR up, this means that if he switches in at half health while you're Swords Dancing under the rain (and you're in Torrent range), you're gonna KO him with Aqua Jet.

Moreover, Feraligatr has definite merits over any alternative.
Azumarill? Can't get past Jellicent
Kabutops? Lacks the bulk to actually setup
Samurott? Can't get past Jellicent AND Ferrothorn
Qwilfish? Too frail and has issues with both Jellicent and Ferrothorn

Feraligatr under rain is good, even in OU, and deserves an analysis (albeit short).

Moreover, on the subject of Sheer Force, I would not even use it with Swords Dance. If you ditch any of the coverage moves you're Ferrothorn or Jellicent bait. If you ditch Aqua Jet you're too slow. And even if you keep the same set, Torrent Aqua Jet is more important than Sheer Force Crunch. So yeah, no reason to wait for Sheer Force Gatr to be released.
 
I am completely theorymoning this but, what about Flygon. While looking at the stats I noticed flygon is quite high in usage for OU, now I know usage is no good reason to write an anylisis, it just got me thinking. The only arguements against Flygon last time around where mostly "Garchomp exists," and well, now it doesn't. So I propose Flygon, if its not eligible, I atleast want to know why.
 

prem

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it is still too weak, especially in the face of other dragons. over mence, he has a sr resist, and tahts it. he really has nothing over dragonite at all besides speed, and 100 base speed isnt as crucial as it once was. haxorus just hits so much harder, and can set up a dragon dance and sweep. lati and hydrei arent really comparable for the most part, but they all outdamage flygon anyway (hydrei can even outdamage flygon physically).

my point is. there is no reason to ever use flygon over other dragons. it has a stealth rock resist while doing everything worse
 

atsync

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I am completely theorymoning this but, what about Flygon. While looking at the stats I noticed flygon is quite high in usage for OU, now I know usage is no good reason to write an anylisis, it just got me thinking. The only arguements against Flygon last time around where mostly "Garchomp exists," and well, now it doesn't. So I propose Flygon, if its not eligible, I atleast want to know why.
It was disallowed for being outclassed not only by Garchomp, but by all of the other OU dragons. Basically, anything Flygon tries to do, another dragon can do it better. Sure it has a unique (now that Garchomp is gone) typing and levitate, but neither of those things are enough to make you glad that you picked Flygon over another dragon.

At least, that was the reasoning behind it not being given an analysis before Garchomp was banned. Not sure if Garchomp's ban has changed Flygon's situation too much though.
 
In Walrein's case, what has changed from last generation in regards to the "Stallrein" strategy? Also Ambipom and Shedinja.

Sure it has a unique (now that Garchomp is gone) typing and levitate, but neither of those things are enough to make you glad that you picked Flygon over another dragon.
Still theorymonning. There is nothing to prove this, so Flygon could still be legit. Remember Rhyperior in gen4?
 
I am completely theorymoning this but, what about Flygon. While looking at the stats I noticed flygon is quite high in usage for OU, now I know usage is no good reason to write an anylisis, it just got me thinking. The only arguements against Flygon last time around where mostly "Garchomp exists," and well, now it doesn't. So I propose Flygon, if its not eligible, I atleast want to know why.
With a slightly higher base Speed (which makes a huge difference (not having to flip a coin when Mence gets to +1)) and better overall stats, Landorus gives Flygon some stiff competition as a Choice Scarfer. Being resistant to SR and able to roast Skarmory with Fire Blast pales in comparison to severely weakening (or outright OHKOing) Gliscor and being able to revenge a much wider pool of Pokemon. Mixed Flygon doesn't seem so bad, though. Sure, Lati@s and Hydreigon outdamage him, but Flygon can actually take a beating from an unboosted Doryuuzu, Mach Punch from Conk, and isn't Pursuit weak. DM / Earthquake / Fire Blast / Roost really sounds legit in this metagame (won't be getting past Eviolite Chansey without Spikes, but w/e). In other words, mixed Flygon can stick around longer than other Dragons in OU.
 
Plus, it beats Jirachi in the Rain, which is more than can be said for Hydreigon and Latios. It can even cock-block Thunder-Wave and switch in with ease. My only real problem with Flygon would be its low base stats, but at least it has a good speed tier (unlike Hydreigon >_>) :/
 

Seven Deadly Sins

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Now that the rush is over, I think this thread has outlived its usefulness. I think the analysis load is low enough that we can move on to funneling new sets through QC. As such, I'm locking and moving this, and replacing it with a Gen 4 style "Rejected Sets Compendium" thread.
 

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